McGuinty unlikely to legislate Union back to work

 
 
 
STAFF REPORTERS

Premier Dalton McGuinty is resisting pressure to recall the Legislature to end the 11-week-old York University strike because the government believes such a move would be challenged in court.

With the provincial Liberals being battered in the court of public opinion instead, McGuinty yesterday appointed Reg Pearson, Ontario’s chief mediator, “to bang a few heads together” and resolve the dispute.

But if Pearson fails to get both sides back to the bargaining table, the job action risks dragging on indefinitely because the government has few realistic weapons left to it.

While the Ontario government intervened in college strikes in 1984 and 1989, it has never done so for a university labour dispute.

Senior government officials confide such action is unlikely in this case because a precedent-setting 2007 Supreme Court ruling in a dispute between British Columbia and unionized health services support workers limits government’s ability to impose back-to-work legislation.

“The imposition of compulsory arbitration in cases where the parties do not reach agreement is generally contrary to the principle of voluntary collective bargaining and is only admissible (in) cases of essential services, administration of the State, clear deadlock, and national crisis,” the high court ruled.

McGuinty’s government has been criticized for inaction on the strike by 3,340 teaching assistants, contract faculty and graduate assistants that began Nov. 6. Last April, McGuinty ended a Toronto Transit Commission walkout in less than two days by convening a rare Sunday session of the Legislature to table back-to-work legislation.

But Pearson is known for his work on TTC strikes in 1999, 2005 and 2008 and the Liberals hope he can replicate his past magic.

“We’ll give this one more shot,” McGuinty told reporters. “We think it’s the fastest way to bring this home, which is to send in a mediator to bang a few heads together and ideally lead to a speedy resolution,” he said, refusing to set a deadline for the non-binding mediation.

His comments came the morning after 63 per cent of the Canadian Union of Public Employees 3903 rejected the university’s latest contract offer of 9.25 per cent wage hikes over three years, improved benefits, and job security, in a forced vote Tuesday.

Veteran mediator and labour lawyer Mort Mitchnick said at least with mediation, both sides would have a dialogue and it should only take Pearson a few days to determine if a resolution is possible.

“(He) is a well-known and respected mediator, and given the fact that the university indicated it really did show the union its best offer in the vote that was turned down, the university has no reason to go back to the table unless summoned by a mediator.”

Echoing the government’s concern, he added CUPE certainly would challenge back-to-work legislation. “I’m not saying it would succeed, but at least there would be an attempt to challenge it,” he said.

CUPE’s 3903 spokesperson Tyler Shipley praised McGuinty’s move.

“Quite frankly, we think it’s great,” he said, emphasizing the union hopes it’s enough pressure to get the university to take collective bargaining seriously. “Our members are exhausted of this strike, tired of walking the picket lines … they are anxious to see an end to it.”

York University president Mamdouh Shoukri welcomed the mediator. “This strike has gone on for far too long and has been highly destructive for our 50,000 students. We look forward to Reg Pearson’s involvement in the hope that it will lead to a speedy resolution.”

York spokesperson Alex Bilyk said the university hasn’t heard when the two sides are to meet with the mediator. The school year will already be extended into May, and “that summer term is really being threatened” without a settlement.

York Federation of Students president Hamid Osman said, “it’s unfortunate the strike isn’t over, but we want to have both parties come to a negotiated settlement as soon as possible.”

Osman said many of the 50,000 students affected are calling him to complain about financial woes caused by the strike, including the loss of on-campus jobs and missed internships.

Dagmar Kanzler, the mother of a second-year student who last week launched a Facebook group for frustrated parents of York students that now has 70 members, said she’s requested a meeting with the premier to “personally make the case” for back-to-work legislation. As yet, no one has responded to her letter or phone call.

Progressive Conservative MPP Peter Shurman (Thornhill), whose party wants the Legislature recalled immediately, scoffed at McGuinty’s suggestions of urgency.

“I don’t think heads are being banged together,” said Shurman, who has been imploring the Liberals to intervene since last fall.

“To say that he wants a `speedy’ settlement to this dispute at York at the 11-week mark is disingenuous to say the least,” he said.

But Paul Ferreira, chief of staff to NDP Leader Howard Hampton, said a negotiated settlement – with Pearson’s help – is the most desirable outcome. “A new mediator has been named and he will sit down with both sides and the hope is this thing will be resolved through the negotiating process,” he said, adding back-to-work legislation is just hypothetical at this point.

 

http://www.thestar.com/Article/575279

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225 Comments

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225 responses to “McGuinty unlikely to legislate Union back to work

  1. B

    And that first mediator, what was he? The second rate guy? Because 11 weeks ago, this wasn’t at all inconvenient to 50,000. Wasn’t worth the top guy then. How is McGuinty the education Premier again?

  2. pfft

    pleease
    theres no reason to go back to school.
    guaranteed marks will be lower than they would have been if the school year went according to plan. let the students minds at ease and let them go there way with things until the new school year in September.

    RIDICULOUS THIS STRIKE!!!!!!!!!
    CUPE IS A DISGRACE TO ALL THAT IS GOOD
    RIGHT NOW I WOULD RATHER HAVE A 4 YR OLD TA!!!! I WOULD HAVE MORE PROGRESS

  3. Commuter

    The first mediator was the same clown who did nothing during the Windsor strike… students took matters into their own hands.

    And with this court ruling, the third scenario where back to work legislation is appropriate is:
    c) clear deadlock

    With Shoukri saying they’re at an impasse (first public comments since when?) and now the best mediator on scene… back to work legislation could be possible and consistent with the ruling of the SCC case on the grounds that all other measures have been exhausted and there is a “clear deadlock” if Reg Pearson determines this to be the case.

    I think this is what it will come down to.

  4. Commuter

    @ pfft

    Marks will be lower?

    I don’t want to come off as an ass here, but I’ve been using the strike to do my readings, assignments, and study for exams.

    I don’t see why marks should be lower… if anything they should be higher considering we have this time now and the fact that they will likely (most profs) be more lenient on us when we go back (less material on exams, dropping assignments, etc.).

    I do sympathize with those who have been working… that’s a valid reason.

    But those who haven’t cracked open their books once in the past 78 days… sorry!

    There is NO WAY I would want to scrap this year and start fresh in September. Life’s too short to waste a year (and the money I could have been making in the “real world” had I graduated a year sooner).

  5. YorkStudent

    @Commuter

    I completely agree with you. Life is too short and I want to be a man of action and not of words

    I am coming to the rally on Wednesday. I want York, The Union to know that what you have been through will not be forgotten.

    They should know, we do not want another strike in 2010!!!

  6. Ladyinblue

    @YorkStudent

    Yes we can! Yes we can!Yes we can!Yes we can!

    I apologize the cliche, but I feel that we can end this strike! Let’s take our university back!

  7. Fat Kid on the Playground

    Thanks for the link, Jeff!

  8. end the strike

    “I’ve been using the strike to do my readings, assignments, and study for exams.”

    Commuter = loser with no life *confirmed*

    there’s more to life that books and assignments! enjoy life cause it’s too short (like you said)!

  9. WtfMate

    I love this quote:

    CUPE’s 3903 spokesperson Tyler Shipley praised McGuinty’s move.

    “Quite frankly, we think it’s great,” he said, emphasizing the union hopes it’s enough pressure to get the university to take collective bargaining seriously. “Our members are exhausted of this strike, tired of walking the picket lines … they are anxious to see an end to it.”

    Yeah. York sure as hell isn’t taking this seriously enough. I mean, the Union hasn’t changed their fuckin demands since day 1, but York isn’t taking this seriously. What a bunch of bullshit.

    If your members were fucking tired of walking the picket lines maybe they should have agreed to that ridiculously good deal York just offered them.

    What a bunch of tools.

  10. jacky

    will they have anymore meeting before monday ?
    i want ot know
    are we likely to have school on the 26th of jan that week?
    or most likely the week after wchi his feb 2nd?

  11. Fat Kid on the Playground

    The deal on the table is concessionary; to suggest otherwise shows a lack of understanding of the issues – which is understandable because media coverage has pretty much regurgitated the Admin’s position verbatim. To say that the union hasn’t adjusted its position shows that you either are actively misleading others; or ignorant of the progress negotiations have made.

  12. may

    @jacky, well we dont know anything, no one tells us anything, we are always in the dark

  13. may

    unfortunately we dont have much recourse

  14. Glenn

    @end the strike,

    haha, nice comeback.

  15. erin

    @ commuter
    In case you haven’t noticed, not all of us students would spend the time doing work when out faith is crushed in York’s administration and true intentions to provide a good solid education for it’s students. I’d rather spend my time making money, something that if I put effort into will produce results.

  16. ram

    finally i found this one article about today’s negotiations.
    http://www.metronews.ca/toronto/local/article/171078
    Reg pearson says that talks are at a very early stage but he is hopeful of a resolution. Let us all see how long this HOPE can pull on.!

  17. Ladyinblue

    @Erin

    So what that he has been spending his time studying? You want to work .. so work and shut up. Some people need their BA to be promoted .. to get a better job .. to be able to change positions, so they must keep on studying.

  18. CUPE member with child

    from the article ram posted:

    “Earlier in the day, Pearson, who shuttled between York University officials and the union representing its striking workers, said he was confident of a resolution.”

    Things are looking up!

  19. may

    well he said that its going to take a lot of time, so at least he is confident that there will be a resolution, finally someone with HOPE

  20. clennis

    fingers tightly crossed everyone. these next two days really matter.

  21. may

    so by this weekend, things should look better

  22. ram

    Nope may
    you need to read the article. Pearson saya it is really hard to comment now because talks are at a very early stage. It is definitely be gonna be end of next week if at all things go well and a resolution has to be made.
    But i am not building up hopes as anything is possible with york. It is just like a kid that is unpredictable. So i would not want myself to be shattered nth time if this again were to turn abortive.
    Just be a silent spectator. start working on your assignments and essays if you have any, because next week could PROBABLY mark the end week of this long fight. get back in track.

  23. fuck the year

    listen , everyone saying hopefully things will look better by the weekend – kinda naive. get real. lets get on with our lives scrap the year please, let me move on

  24. Fat Kid on the Playground

    Shoukri thinks public opinion will force the government into action; but it is unclear if McGuinty is going to want to fight this battle because it could get taken to the supreme court for a charter of rights violation (extreme case) but at the very least it will continue to make canada look poor on labour rights.

  25. Pally Wally

    stop saying “let’s scrap the year” – you go ahead and do that; drop out. if you are thinking this way, maybe you should reasses being in university in the first place

  26. ram

    @ fuck the year
    If you do not wanna be in school why should we pay the price? why should we be penalized by one year?
    Stop shouting such selfish ruthless sentences.
    Go f**k some one or the other instead of asking to do so the year. 1 academic year is extremely precious for only those who really wanna achieve something academically!! not for you!!!

  27. caitron

    why are people saying “the end of next week”? is that based on anything? does the process with the new mediator have to follow a certain schedule? or are those statements pure speculation (as per usual)?

  28. copyright police

    You should probably not be posting entire articles from another site here without permission. It’s best to quote an excerpt and provide the link to the full article.

  29. RR

    Guys, keep a level head here. It’s the mediators job to do this. Step back and look at who this guy is. Not only has his name been revealed to the public, but he is touted as the “best mediator in Ontario” with deep history with the TTC strikes and various other labour disputes. Given the publicity he is getting to come into this dispute, his ego is enourmous. Of course he is going to say he is optimistic and hopeful given that his reputation is big time on the line seeing as how much he is now exposed to the public. There is no way we are going to guage what is happening if we are relying on word from him. Mediators are suppost to stay relitively annomonous to protect the bargining process- given that this man has been publicly appointed and bummed up huge by the province- he wouldn’t have the guts or the ignorance to say this early that things wern’t progressing.

  30. fuck the year

    @ All the haters –

    Are you guys pleased that you are paying large amounts of money for schooling that your not even receiving?? Does that not bother you the least? Everyone who wants to get on with it and finish their year is fucked. I PAY MOnEY for a service, where is my fucking service .. Or wait am I speaking w/ students who have received scholarships/are mommy and daddy paying for you all. I do not need to reassess being in university, as I am doing great – thanks. I work in the summer and need to earn money to pay for further schooling – York has no right to assume that we will be ok with carrying on, on their schedule. If this year goes on into the summer I won’t be able to pay for next yr. Great student community we got here, just look out for yourselves you dirty rats. Just for the record fuck is not spelt f**k , it is fuck.

  31. may

    he should know by sunday the latest where things are heading with the negotiations, so this few days are crucial

  32. john

    hey guys, just heard a settlement should be reached by next week sometime

  33. john

    we will be back in class beginning of feb the very latest.. so be prepared guys, things are going to look alot better

  34. john

    this mediator knows what he is doing, he will have things settled by next week… so finally things are looking up for york…

  35. fuck the year

    john? What is your source? I don’t know who to trust on these blog sites.

  36. ||||||||||||

    can you actually imagine going back to class and trying to catch up?

    I find it very hard to.

    This year has been fucked up beyond recognition and alot of people are not willing to admit it.

  37. YAY!!

    IM HAPPY THE STRIKE IS ON…bcuz of it i will be able to visit DUBAI..SRI LANKA..QATAR..and maybe the Maldive islands 🙂

  38. confusing

    I dont know if you guys already know about this.
    I just found this from Aktinson website.

    1)ADMS Remediation Information Sessions
    http://www.atkinson.yorku.ca/remediation/#

    2)also you can find the name of the professors you can contact
    http://www.yorku.ca/akevents/academic/SAS/faculty/profiles.asp

    If my professor’s name is not on the list, I am not going back to class on monday??
    very confusing..

  39. Wow, gotta love people like john who drop random “statements”, then next thing you know a friend-of-a-friend hear from a friend-of-a-friend that school’s starting for sure in a couple weeks. Since November, it’s always going to start “in a couple weeks”!

    This is why you READ the articles with a grain of salt, and disregard what anyone else says in the comments when it comes to deadlines and resolutions.

  40. Pally Wally

    fuck the year guy:

    autodidact – have a look at what this means.

  41. FUTURE

    fuck the year guy:
    take your negative bs and go back to serving at mcdonalds.

    It is my hard earned money that’s being eaten up with this strike.

    it is short sighted to want to cancel the year.

  42. B

    http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/575916

    …yeah, they aren’t negotiating in the media at all

  43. Worried

    B

    Thanks for posting the star article. The only statement that worries me is the part where they say they are unsure how long this process will take…? I want to be optimistic and hope that if this week they work on really bargaining and get us back to class by Feb. 2nd the latest.

  44. mike

    I will have the utmost disrespect for my TA’s when I go back to class. Woops, did I say when I go back to class? I meant “if.”

  45. mike

    @ fuck the year

    Shut the fuck up. Undergrad cost is about 6 thousand a year including books. If you live on res maybe 12-14 thousand. If you are an international student maybe 20-25 thousand. But tell me, what the fuck is 6 thousand dollars? We all hope to get out of university making well over 10 times that amount. For some of us, over 50 times that amount. Stop caring about your money, worry about the fact that your academic life is struggling. In order to get into that graduate school you need a certain gpa, you need certain qualifications and prerequisite courses. You also need an outstanding CV. SO GO OUT AND BUILD YOUR CV. Make use of this strike! Go out and volunteer instead of dwelling on your 6 thousand dollars.

    I’m spent.

  46. Tyred

    I can understand students being angry and frustrated over this strike because of the implications of crammed assignments and exams when it finally ends, the prospect of possibly lower marks than they anticipated, the extra costs they have incurred while hanging around doing nothing for 3 months, the prospect of their summer earnings being cut in half, and the overall feeling of helplessness in this mess BUT ….

    It is completely selfish and even childish to advocate that they “just cancel the year for US” …

    If you want to cancel YOUR year just do it!! Don’t expect 49,999 other students to feel the same way.

  47. B

    Perhaps then, instead of all this just cancel the year none sense, some of you should start advocating that York give us better remediation options: Withdraw with some sort, if not all, tuition refund or allowed to continue on as usual when this thing finally settles.

  48. TRUTH

    Our comrades at CUPE are fighting hard. This imperialist monster knows they have no way to win anymore. It’s either what CUPE wants or nothing. They know the 2010 movement is for real and in 2010 all comrades in Ontario will march against this blood thirsty monster of capitalism. As always, students have been very supportive in CUPE and they are ready to be the part of this historic fight for freedom, humanity, justice and fairness

    Students have asked countless times to make sure the year gets canceled so York gets even more pressure. That is the goal and that’s what we are moving towards. Canceling the year maybe a slight inconvenience to bunch of capitalist students and their families who survive on others to live their life, but majority of students have overwhelmingly agreed to do it in order to help CUPE fight hard and get victory

    Demand the Impossible

    Viva la Revolution
    Go CUPE Go

  49. CUPE GMM Insider

    BARGAINING UPDATE: JANUARY 23, 2AM

    Reading between the lines, back-to-work legislation is a distinct possibility.

    “The mediators returned to the room to meet with the Bargaining Team at around 1:30am. The mediator appointed by the premier, Reg Pearson, explained his long absence from the table as time spent with the Employer. The following are some notes from his comments (some are verbatim, most paraphrased, I write them all as if paraphrased):

    “* Pearson conveyed that the Employer was not happy with our offer as presented.

    “* He said we hadn’t sent a signal that we’re looking for a settlement.

    “* The mediator commented that putting items back on the table had not helped the process.

    “* He warned that he was on a short leash from the premier.

    “* He also mentioned that a settlement reached through binding arbitration would likely not benefit the Union.

    “* He referenced the case of binding arbitration that the TTC workers faced last year as an example of a Union losing most of their demands through arbitration. He stated they could have won more in a negotiated settlement.

    “* Having said that, and despite the fact that the Employer would not be delivering any substantive response tonight, the mediator conveyed that the Employer would be presenting a response to our offer Friday morning.

    “* He added that the lack of movement on our part would result in incremental movement on the part of the Employer.

    “* He urged us to “get beyond that” sort of movement if a deal is to be made.

    “* He stated he would call upon the Union to make ‘tough decisions” at our next meeting.

    “Following this brief presentation, both mediators left the room. Given the late hour, the BT decided to break for the night. It was also decided that we would inform the mediators that we would not return to the table until 10am, despite their urging for a 9am meeting, given the lateness of their final presentation.”

  50. Mediator sez

    In other words “Let go of the concept of a two year fucking deal!”

  51. JMac

    Are these CUPE people a bunch of kids? 1:30 am is too late and 9:00 am is too early? You can tell these spoiled brats aren’t losing much during this strike. In any NORMAL mediated negotiations these people would bargain all night – or get up at 6:00 am and start all over again.

  52. TRUTH

    JMAC is another capitalist tool trying to make hateful comments about CUPE. Like all capitalists people out there, he expects CUPE members to be up all night and bargain. They have a right to rest and replenish their energy. They are working hard all day long fighting countless hours for freedom and justice and you expect to stay up and negotiate? So you are asking for CUPE members to be let go of their most basic rights?

    This is the most basic example of capitalist. They feed of others and they expect everyone to suffer so they can gain. CUPE must fight, cancel the school year and slap these imperialists again in face

    Demand the Impossible

    Viva la Revolution
    Go CUPE Go

  53. Lost It

    L…M…A…O

    This is starting to get entertaining. There should be a movie made. ^_^

    A dramedy, perhaps. ^_^

  54. fracas

    @jmac,

    if the above report is accurate, then it doesn’t seem like much real bargaining actually happened yesterday. it sounds like york is trying to wait it out. why else would they have cupe wait for hours just so they can tell the mediator they’re ‘not happy with their counter-proposal’?

    yes, often negotiations happen over night, but that usually is when things are at the very end, wrapping final language up. it doesn’t appear that the two sides are anywhere near this point. and the 10am meeting time may be 3903’s response to the long wait they had to go through – yes, it’s bs, but it does seem that both sides are playing this game, not just cupe.

    but i do agree with insider2, it does sound like btwl may be in the near future. it may well be that mcguinty wants to establish some evidence (through this mediator) that ‘deadlock’ has occured, in case cupe challenges btwl in court (which it can).

  55. FALSITY

    The way that we know TRUTH is being sarcastic is that he doesn’t invoke the Left’s critique of neoliberalism in his rants.

    If he did, the very language he uses would be different. Instead, he thinks that CUPE thinks like Bolsheviks. Indeed, their philosophy is quite different from Bolshevism.

  56. Cupe Doll

    @CUPE GMM Insider: “Reading between the lines, back-to-work legislation is a distinct possibility.”

    Yes. And reading some intent behind the lines, our Bargaining Team is telling us to let them actually bargain. Because if we keep making impossible demands, we’ll get less than we already bargained for.

    Guess we’ll all find out at our next GMM if we’re prepared to just let our bargaining team bargain. Personally, I’m already sure. We won’t.

  57. JMac

    @TRUTH

    You aren’t a capitalist tool, or a communist or socialist tool, you are just an immature and naive tool – period.

    And for anyone else who doesn’t think the end is near – one way or another – this is it. These people, both sides, need to get a deal negotiated, and that means staying up all night if necessary.

    Now is not the time to play the “you-made-us-wait-while-you-discussed-our-proposal-amongst-yourselves,-so-we-are-going-to-make-you-wait-longer-tomorrow game”.

    If that is their thinking, they are indeed being childish, and if they really needed those 8 hours of sleep, how in hell did they ever get through crunch-time at university?

  58. ram

    @all
    I know i am repeating this question. But i really wanna know if we will be out of classes next week too. i feel so, but is there anybody else too to agree with me? OR after these comments about the negotiations, how soon do you think we can be back in class. Be it cupe or york, who ever plays the “waiting game”, but we, the students have already waited for too long.
    thanks to anybody who replies:

  59. mike

    @ TRUTH

    WORKING HARD?
    I LOL’D!
    More like, hardly working. They are on strike. They are not working hard. Unions are for lazy fucks. Get a real fucking job you low life pieces of shit. Being a TA is not a real job. You’ll always be low on the ladder, you will never move up in the world. Unions are the cause for all laziness in the workplace.

  60. mike

    p.s.

    Anyone that is a TA and on strike deserves less money. And by the way, if a TA says that they are “getting a second job.” It really means that they are getting “A job” (singular), because being a TA you are still a student.

  61. Cupe Doll

    @ram: “But i really wanna know if we will be out of classes next week too.”

    ram, if anyone were to answer your question as if they actually knew — would you believe them?

  62. B

    ram – Personally, I only have classes two days of the week. Already figured I’m out another week. Think over your schedule and decide. It’s not really a group consensus decision.

  63. mike

    @ the entire union

    The Union has one set of objectives: To do as little as possible for as much as possible with as many as possible!

    How many union guys does it take to screw in a light bulb? Most of them unless they can get overtime, then it requires all of them!

    The Union is the perfect type of organization for those who either cannot compete or refuse to compete!

  64. ram

    @ cupe doll
    Keeping the nature of your comments aside, I am sure of your credibility as a CUPE member. So, if you were to give your own speculation or opinion about my question above, I would definitely consider it and plan accordingly.
    You have been so far reliable. So we can extrapolate your credibility and our reliability even further till this strike ends.
    So, your comments are welcome.
    @ others.
    Do not impersonate cupe doll.

  65. depressed

    who wants to get 20 dollars worth of aero bars and rent the first couple seasons of desperate housewives?

  66. yorkjessica

    @ Mike

    Couldn’t have said it better myself.

  67. C

    “The Union is the perfect type of organization for those who either cannot compete or refuse to compete!”

    That’s true by definition. Unions are labourers who have chosen to collude instead of compete for higher wages. Traditionally, people unionized because they could *not* compete — and so employers could abuse them. Today’s unionists are more the “refuse to compete” variety.

  68. Aaron

    Could people please stop asking if we’ll have classes next week? It’s so annoying because obviously no one could possibly know.

    Out of curiosity, would cancelling the 2008/2009 academic year entirely almost completely destroy York as a reputable university?

  69. Aaron

    Just to follow up, I know there’s no chance in hell I’ll return to this school if the year gets cancelled. I can’t believe it, but I think it’s a distinct possibility now with the way negotiations have been going.

  70. C

    “The Union is the perfect type of organization for those who either cannot compete or refuse to compete!”

    That’s true by definition. Unions are labourers who have chosen to collude instead of compete for higher wages.

  71. mike

    If the year gets cancelled I will not like it, but I will suck it up. Six years ago highschool had OAC (grade 13). So if this year gets cancelled it’s as though we’re caught up with them. Not a great thing to happen I agree; but i’m just trying to offer some optimism.

    Always look on the bright side of life.

  72. TRUTH = idiot

    @ TRUTH.. you stated:

    “This is the most basic example of capitalist. They feed of others and they expect everyone to suffer so they can gain.”

    I guess CUPE is capitalist by your own definition.

    Idiot.

  73. Insider2

    To everyone interested

    Based on the talks yesterday, there seem to be a long set of negotiations likely to take place next week as the mediator has asked to review some material beforehand.

    The earliest time that classes would start will be Monday, Feb but that is if the negotiations are going to be fruitful.

    Cheers

  74. mike

    LMAO^^ owned

  75. Aaron

    Anyone who doesn’t realize Truth is doing a brilliant parody of a socialist ideologue doesn’t belong in university.

  76. FALSITY

    Anybody who thinks TRUTH is doing a brilliant parody of a socialist idealogue has never been to university.

  77. Aaron

    Did you not read his exaggerated use of words like comrade? It’s a parody. Anyone can see that. University leftists always awkwardly throw in as many big words as possible instead.

  78. Tyred

    @ Aaron

    There is a time and a place for that type of “parody”. This is neither.

    He’s like the student who walks into class late and immediately asks a stupid question, thinking he is being cool – while everyone else in class is thinking “what a f**king idiot!!, why doesn’t he just stay away!!”

    You give him way too much credit.

  79. confusing

    Hi guys. I dont know if you guys already know about this but I found this earlier this morning from Atkinson website.

    1) ADMS Remediation Information Sessions
    http://www.atkinson.yorku.ca/remediation/

    2) Instructors’ contact info that you can contact
    http://www.yorku.ca/akevents/academic/SAS/faculty/profiles.asp

    My instructors name is not on the list…That means I am not going back to class next Monday?
    hmm..

  80. worried

    I agree with “Fuck The Year” .

    Is anyone else worried about the fact employers are going to know we didn’t actually finish a full Term of school. If we do go back to this condensed year we will be missing out on weeks and weeks of school which we not only paid for, but we might miss out on valuable information that we were supposed to learn.

    Other schools (for people who are applying to further their education after york) and employers will know about this.

    I came to school for quality education. I payed for quality education. I am not getting any education right now. I think that students should have a choice to get a full refund for the year. I am not worried about how quickly I finish York at this point. I am worried about the quality of my education and how others such as employers will look at my degree.

    Also, 6000 dollars is very hard to make for some people.. and I think its very ignorant that some people are acting like its nothing. You don’t know everyone’s situation.

  81. B

    Where are these weeks and weeks you are missing out on???

    The current remediation plan has only trimmed ONE week for each term.

    ONE FUCKING WEEK.

    You really thing that at every single other school students don’t miss out on 1-2 lectures that are not made up?

  82. Insider2

    @ worried

    You have a very good point. If people look at it very closely, York is saving a lot of money. Everybody who has been on campus knows how many lights are shut off on campus to save on electricity bill.

    I think York can accommodate current CUPE demands but they are scared of what might happen in next strike.

  83. B

    Hell. They’ll cancel summer semester before having to trim off anymore weeks from fall/winter.

  84. POSITIVE

    CUPE – is not my comrade.

  85. Aaron

    Yeah, seriously. I can’t believe how many people hastily wish to have the whole year cancelled.

    I don’t know about anyone else, but I worked really hard up until the strike and earned really high marks that I don’t want to see get flushed down the fucking toilet.

  86. Tyred

    Just out of curiosity, does anyone have real information on what percentage of TAs/GAs would have gone through university on full scholarship assistance?

    I am just wondering how many of these people, based on their academic standing, EVER had to work to pay for their undergraduate educations ….

  87. monkey = york student

    stop wasting your times trying to defend your own opinions.

    everything is FUBAR

    the minds of both sides are FUBAR

    and if you dont know what FUBAR means you are FUBAR

  88. ram

    Alex bilyk has already hinted that if the strike extends beyond this month, (i.e if it continues next week, which it will) the summer term would have to be cancelled. Let them do that first and carry on with the fall and winter normally.

    @ all
    canceling the year is far from now. Please do not have any hopes / dreams / pessimism that the year will be scrapped off. It is possible but not this early.

  89. Commuter

    @ ram

    I don’t see why they would have to cancel the summer term.

    Technically speaking, if we go back in a week or two, we wouldn’t run winter exams past the last week of May or the first week of June.

    They would have to condense it, yes, but there’s no need to cancel it.

  90. Commuter

    @ Insider2

    “The earliest time that classes would start will be Monday, Feb but that is if the negotiations are going to be fruitful”

    Monday, February ____?

    2nd?

  91. David Allan

    Congratulations CUPE on resetting your own standard of selfishness.

    I thought 77 days was bad, but it’s clear that you’ve not only beat your own record. But you are attempting to reset the bar to heights that were previously unimaginable.

    I applaud your ability to stand out there and fight the good fight without regard for anyone else. You wanted job security, hope that you were hoping for that 15% in lost enrollment fees to fund any of that.

  92. Insider2

    @ Commuter

    Yes, sorry I meant Feb 2.

  93. carleigh

    If I want to take the rest of this year off is there a way to do that without having to come back next year and start off fresh? (by that I mean it would be like I was a first year student again)

  94. ram

    @ commuter
    there lies your answer. How many people would be prepared to go everyday to school during summer?
    roughly i did some calculations on when we will finish the winter if we start on february 2.
    13 days of instruction + 12 exam days
    = 25 week days.
    25 weekdays = 5 weeks.
    So we need a maximum of 5 weeks more to finish of the fall semester. (according to remediation)
    2nd february to 8th march:- finish the fall semester.
    WINTER:
    maximum 55 days of instruction + 12 days of exam period = 77 weekdays. (take 80 for ease)
    approximately 14 weeks.
    if we start winter on 11th march(MON) we will move on for 14 weeks with winter.
    If you calculate 14 weeks from 11th march, we arrive at 16th June.
    So at the earliest they can start summer on 18th June.
    Tell me if it is possible to finish any SU course in this short span? I would not pay money knowingly that i am gonna get only a condensed period?
    16th june is the time when S1 courses end and s2 courses start.

  95. Cupe Doll

    @ram: “So, if you were to give your own speculation or opinion about my question above, I would definitely consider it and plan accordingly.”

    Can’t even speculate. It’s too out of control. But I can tell you 100% what it all depends on.

    Never mind why we were striking in the first place. But at this point. Right now. Does 3903 care more about its own membership? Or does it still, despite everything we’ve put students and our own future through, care more about hurting York for supposedly being so neo-liberal?

    That’s what it all hinges on. Up to now, in public, we were only pretending to be striking for our membership. But in private? It was all about making impossible demands so there could be no settlement so we might better cripple York. But now, finally, there’s a real tension. There’s increasingly significant voices being raised to stop our madness. And here’s an example of this tension expressed by 3903 commentators in the last 3 days:

    “… What is a win in this strike? Is it a win on this forced rat? Is it York capitulating completely on all of our demands? Is it forcing York to cancel the whole year? … BT: don’t gamble the contracts of 3,400 people against the faint hope that we will get everything we want if we just hold out long enough. Don’t gamble with the future of this union against some ideology. Please, please, please — just have the courage to go out and do whatever you think necessary to get us a contract next week. You have a chance to do something
    big here. This is not about ‘bargaining from below,’ or ‘radicalism’. It’s not a game. Please step up to the plate.”

    And the reply:

    “… It seems to me that it is not us but the employer who has been insisting on an all or nothing situation: either the union accepts what the employer is prepared to give, or it suffers the burden of an excessively long strike… The sheer absurdity of the extravagance the employer is willing to go to to indulge its intransigence and refuse to participate in the collective bargaining process is becoming clearer and clearer each day. All we can do in this situation is keep focused on our work of explaining how our demands are perfectly reasonable, and hold firm until concessions are removed and we make some progress in each of our priority areas.”

  96. elle

    just to point out ram,

    its not 13 + 12 = 25 weekdays because the exam period is going to go over weekends. that changes your calculations.

  97. Commuter

    @ ram

    Exams ARE held on weekends. That should free up quite a bit of time.

  98. elle

    i’m with ya commuter…

    also, i don’t think ram included holidays such as

    -family day
    -easter
    -may long weekend

  99. Commuter

    It would be interesting to see how it would shape up if we do go back Feb. 2nd and those things are taken into account.

  100. elle

    It definetly would…

    obviously i wish that we didn’t have those holidays just because i want to salvage as much time as possible…but alas that can’t happen 😦

  101. elle

    If we start on Monday, February 2nd…By my own calculations, including family day, easter, and the may long weekend, the winter term (aka classes) will end on Friday, May 22. From May 23rd until June 3rd (12 days) will be the winter exam period.

  102. York Student

    York will not accept Cupe’s offer and mainly because they did not change that much from their prior one.

    I guess more time waiting.

    and waiting ..waiting …waiting …

  103. TRUTH

    CUPE Doll, you capitalist tool, I see you are desperately trying to make things look different after your whole promises of “Silent Majority” and TAs being against this strike was proven to be a total disaster. I wonder how students keep listening to you (well real students are not on this site because most of members here are paid York tools with few capitalist students who are used to suffer others to their benefit) despite your credibility being completely destroyed by the recent ratification vote. Wasn’t back in this December that you predicted York will wait it out and in cold days the force ratification will hand CUPE the victory? So what happened? You’ve been wrong all along and yet you continue your campaign of misinformation. Those paychecks from York must be really generous to keep you going….

    To others, this fight has one purpose and that is defeat this capitalist monster. The 2010 movement will be the wind of change we are all waiting for. The 2010 movement will put these imperialists and their ultra right media friends down. It is going to be the one fight to unite everyone in their quest for freedom, justice, equality and fairness….

    Demand the Impossible

    Viva la Revolution
    Go CUPE Go

  104. TRUTH

    “Wasn’t back in this December that you predicted York will wait it out and in cold days the force ratification will hand CUPE the victory?”

    Correction. I meant defeat not victory

  105. Andrew

    @Cupedoll

    Assuming this exchange is genuine, it is awesome that anybody within CUPE still thinks that they are calling York’s bluff. It should be abundantly clear by now that the employer is not bluffing: they cannot give CUPE what it wants.

    It is especially hilarious that anybody thinks it even matters anymore whether CUPE’s demands are “reasonable”, as though if CUPE just explained themselves more clearly, that somehow the resources would be found; somehow everyone would agree that SRCs are not antithetical to a research university; and somehow it’s just fine that we will do this again in a year and a half.

    I suggest they google for “Pyrrhic victory”. Also, what’s that quote from War Games? “A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.”

  106. Commuter

    @ elle

    Well that’s not THAT bad… at least I might be able to beat some high school kids to get a summer job in my town. :\

  107. caitron

    @ carleigh
    what exactly is your question…? are you wondering if you can get credit for the work you’ve already done this year, drop out this year, and then apply the work you did this year to next year’s classes? you need to complete your courses or you don’t get credit for them. or did i misunderstand your question?

  108. B

    carleigh – if you want to withdraw or would like to inquire about it, the registrar’s office has already stated they are willing to meet students and provide counseling on the withdrawing option.

  109. Shelley

    LOOK AT THIS GUYS – BREAKING NEWS:

    http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090123/090123_york_union/20090123/?hub=CP24Home

    MAYBE THE REST OF US WILL ACTUALLY GO BACK? OR ARE MY HOPES JUST TOO HIGH!??!

  110. elle

    commuter, that’s what I was thinking too. Isn’t it funny how after time passes, things that seem so horrible and desperate come to not seem so bad? If I’m able to get a job for the beginning of june then I’ll at least be happy with that situation. But of course, I’m sure it’s still going to be tough on those who need the summer to make money for next year 😦

    Also, from the basis of those calculations, we can see that if we were to start in the first week of march, we would be going until the end of june with classes and into the first week of july with exams…so its kinda like a reference point! haha

  111. B

    Shelley – there’s no hope in that. Just a little negotiating in the media.

  112. blackflame28

    @ Shelley

    I don’t believe this is anything new. I have no faith we will be going back until York releases a statement that we are going back. Which at this rate, will be never. 😦

  113. Shelley

    I guess …. But is it too much to ask to go back OR to give us the peace of mind and just cancel the year at this point!?!?!?!?

  114. Disaffected Yufite

    It seems to me that the two parties are so far apart and both so unwilling to compromise that a finding of “deadlock” is a distinct possibility and would provide a legal basis for defending BTWL. But even this solution isn’t likely to be offered until the legislature is back in session, given the reluctance McGuinty has expressed so far.

    One step people might take in the meanwhile is to write not only to their respective MPPs, but also write prominent NDP politicians who’ve taken an overtly pro-CUPE stance thus far such as Cheri DiNovo and other pro-labour NDP representatives to argue for why BTWL would be imperative if this situation drags on much longer. If we’re still in the same stalemate by the time the legislature returns, surely that’s a clear indication of deadlock and thus of the need for BTWL as the only viable way out of that impasse.

  115. B

    For Goodness sake…

    Here’s why they won’t be cancelling the year anytime soon.

    Remediation plan in place that allows us 11 weeks a semester as opposed to the normal 12 weeks. Missing out on only ONE week per term.

    They will cancel summer semester or condense it if the need be. The Senate has not, nor is currently slated to discuss any further compression to Fall/Winter semester.

    It’s ONE FUCKING WEEK a semester! You want them to scrap an entire year for a total of two bloody weeks?????

  116. Lola

    um….if it goes that far into june i’m going to completely run out of money. wtf am i going to do? beg on the streets? get a job and then see my grades slip? i know some can do school and work but it never works for me. this is such a mess!!!

  117. G

    @ shelly is this not the offer that York rejected as was discuss earlier or am I mistaken?

  118. Admin

    Bunch of no good a-holes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  119. elle

    @G

    Apparently its a new counter offer… I have no more information other than that 😦

    The star has a tad more info but not really

    http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/575916

  120. Glenn

    Any chance these negotiations will end soon with the newly appointed mediator coming in?

  121. B

    It’s not new. Just the counter offer presented late last night that a CUPE member posted was not well received by the admin. Scroll up for those comments

  122. Shelley

    It’s a new offer. But the way York and the Union have been acting, it will be an old one and with no progress loll. I’m just waiting to hear that breaking news!

  123. G

    @ B

    I know you keep saying we are only missing one week of class and thus we should not cancel the year because of this and I agree. But we stop having classes on November 6 that’s one lecture from there I had class until November 28 because I have no exam in this class. Thus from November 6 – November 28 I missed 4 lectures. Now we are in January and were suppose to start January 5 but have not so from January 5 – January 23 I have missed 3 lectures. Total 7 lectures missed since the start of this strike. This is for a full year course I have. Am wondering if we return by Feb 2nd when will we finish school? I know we don’t know for sure Feb 2nd but let’s just say its Feb 2nd. Am thinking probably June right? Since I have missed 7 lectures this will equal 7 weeks of class missed not 1 week. At least the way I have done my calculations. I guess they will have to merge lectures together or take lectures out? I don’t know but I agree I worked to hard to cancel the year I don’t want to do over my assignments and presentations for the same course. If we lived in a perfect world York would give refunds to those who want to start again in september and for those who don’t they could continue with their studies but of course this will not happen.

  124. Disgruntled Student

    get a job lola why go to the streets

  125. Disgruntled Student

    They should just fire all the TAs and find other people willing to put scantrons into machines for minimum wage. Any idiot who has been to lecture can lead tutorial discussions because it’s the students who do most of the talking anyways, and the profs tell you what to discuss.

  126. intl student

    i am an intl student and am super pissed….i am coming to the rally on tuesday and wednesday…TUESDAY IS ON CAMPUS..WEDNESDAY IS AT QUEENS PARK…come out and support your own future and career.

  127. CUPE GMM Member

    Note the 2010-pound elephant in the room.

    BARGAINING UPDATE, JAN 23, 1PM

    Yesterday the Bargaining Team passed a “memorandum of settlement” to the employer – as directed by the GMM. This pass included several alterations:

    the change of position on wages from 4% and 4% in two years to 3% and 3.25%; The re-tabling of the UNit 3 Miniumum Guarantee proposal, along with the withdrwawal of the Unit 3 summer GFA proposal; An increase of the GA Bursary Fund demand from 275k to 331k (which equals our latest calculations for catch-up on that fund Counter-proposals on the Back-to-Work protocol; and several smaller language changes.

    This pass reduced our total monetary demands by 1.4% – this is mostly due to the drop in wage demands (the Minimum Guarantee for Unit 3 is actually only costed at between 60k to 100k more than the previous GFA demand).

    The Union is now working on developing a new pass that will show more substantial movement, assuring the mediators, the York administration, and our own membership that we are working toward reaching a negotiated settlement as soon as possible. And I do say “Union” for a specific reason: the room is packed with union members (not only Bargaining Team members) who are all presently engaged in Unit-specific groups to determine how best to go forward with counter-proposals on four main areas: graduate student funding, job security, benefits, and length of contract.

    We have told the mediators that we will return by 5pm to state our position, so the next update will probably be coming shortly thereafter.

  128. elle

    Thank you cupe gmm insider!

  129. Worried

    Thanks to Cupe GMM member. I appreciate any info you can post here.

  130. Insider2

    @ CUPE GMM Member

    But from what I am hearing the main issue of job security has not change in the new offer and that is THE real issue for York.

    I am also told that the decision for getting back 5000 students on Monday was made based on the fact that York does not plan to change its position.

  131. Disaffected Yufite

    Indeed, many thanks to CUPE GMM Member for the information, since credible reports on the status of negotiations are very important for understanding how things are progressing.

    It seems as though CUPE is shifting on wage demands to demonstrate that they do have some grasp of what can reasonably be accomplished in that domain, but is emphasizing these issues to show their willingness to negotiate in good faith. Could be a PR move, thinking cynically, or a concession to public opinion and the effects of the financial crisis.

    Doesn’t necessarily indicate that CUPE will be willing to make concessions on issues like the two-year contract, job security and conversion hires.

    I’m mystified that so many graduate students are willing to potentially lose a year in terms of progress toward their own degrees while this drags on. YUFA faculty are obligated to stick around even if “Winter” term ends in July, but there will be some conflicts, especially with scheduling of guest faculty, prominent visitors, etc. In my most cynical moments, I’ve begun to wonder whether the PhD students among the CUPE leadership are masterminding this whole anarchist “revolution” to avoid having to face their own anxieties re: assessment of their graduate scholarship. Much more intoxicating and empowering to throw the lives of 64,000 people into chaos (by which I mean YUFA faculty as well as the student body) than to finish your dissertation or doctoral exams and then be evaluated by the people whose power to control your life is effectively short-circuited by the labour dispute.

  132. Cupe Doll

    @Truth: “CUPE Doll, you capitalist tool, I see you are desperately trying to make things look different after your whole promises of “Silent Majority” and TAs being against this strike was proven to be a total disaster.”

    I was totally wrong about the 3903 “silent majority” being against the strike. In hindsight, I never spoke for the 3903 majority. I’ve been a dissident all along. Clearly, it is you that honestly speaks for the majority in our loco 3903 local.

    “… your credibility being completely destroyed by the recent ratification vote. Wasn’t back in this December that you predicted York will wait it out and in cold days the force ratification will hand CUPE the victory?”

    My credibility representing the silent 3903 majority view? Dirt. My dissident credibility? Stainless steel. And my credibility predicting how the strike will play out? The best. I have *never* predicted who will “win”. I have always predicted everyone will lose — and that no settlement can be reached because how ideological this strike is. Back in December? Students thought I was just out to scare them when saying how there was a slim chance the year might be lost. Guess what? Chances this year being lost — not just totally ruined academically — are no longer slim.

    As for you calling me “capitalist tool”? You have got to be some kind of imbecile. Let’s pretend your ridiculous ideology were coherent and even true. What the hell are you doing cheerleading the oppressive ruling elites, imbecile? It’s the students that are the powerless, voiceless, alienated, victimized, oppressed here. And far as students are concerned — who are the oppressors? Can you even tell, imbecile? Both York *AND* 3903, that’s who. The 3903 grad-student leisure class, the 3903 exploiters-in-training, play-acting how to become a niche ruling elite on the backs of students’ labour.

    It’s your business how much an imbecile you are. But as cheerleader for the oppressive 3903 ruling elite and as a — however laughable — enemy of honest student labour, you need to get shot on sight.

  133. Cupe Doll

    @Andrew: “Assuming this exchange is genuine, it is awesome that anybody within CUPE still thinks that they are calling York’s bluff.”

    Absolutely. Tremendous losses have resulted for both sides — not only students. Losses that can’t be made up by any deal. No matter how stellar. Like — even if contract faculty gets a 100% yearly increase — what’s the use when we won’t get hired next year?

    “I suggest they google for “Pyrrhic victory”.”

    Exactly. 3903 is at ideological war against York. Not out to benefit our own membership — just striking out to cripple York. And our victory, should we succeed, will be precisely “pyrrhic”. After such damages to all — what else coulr our 3903 ideological victory be?

    “The only winning move is not to play.”

    Wish it were possible — working at York unencumbered by membership in this 3903 loco local.

  134. Shelja

    ok so what cupe doll this strike is not going to end anytime soon!?!?!

  135. Disaffected Yufite

    @ Shelja,

    Yes, I think “this strike is not going to end anytime soon” is a reasonable inference to take from CUPE Doll’s post. And I completely agree with her. The two sides may make progress on some of the smaller issues, but they’re so far apart on the big ones that BTWL and binding arbitration are realistic way out of this mess.

  136. potato patato

    @ CUPE GMM member

    Thank you for all the updates!

  137. Insider2

    @ Shelja

    Unfortunately things do not look good. Today most people at York were talking about the definite cancellation of the summer term. Some professors are even planning for it as I write this.

    If things do not improve next week, we could expect some more damage.

  138. Worried

    Insider 2
    Were you at the negotiation meeting today? Any insight you could share to make us think that there may be some hope of getting back to class by Feb. 2?

  139. YS

    did cupe present a new counter offer? that’s what I am hearing from CP24.

    http://cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090123/090123_york_union/20090123/?hub=CP24Home

  140. SumbanthSingh

    EVERYBODY THE CHINA DISEASE WILL BRING THE WORLD TO AN END!

  141. Insider2

    @ Worried

    No I could not attend it because I was here at work (@ York :))

    I know for a fact that the contract issue has been rejected by York again. This might brings to another stop again. In other words the meditaor will NOT be able to move things further (positively) in his capacity.

    Cheers

  142. Yorker

    to SumbanthSingh

    What is your purpose for spreading such nonsense?

    Would you please talk about something more meaningful about the strike but not racial attacks.

  143. back to the table

    @ cupedoll

    i think you should take a break from posting as you are now referring to students as …”powerless, voiceless…” and referring to posters as “imbeciles” and suggesting that they “need to get shot on sight.” you have stepped over the line in advocating violence and perhaps you should step back a bit.

  144. Shelja

    Are they making these decisions for us? Do we get a choice when things are extended into the summer or what not.

    I knew things weren’t going to get better, I just had my hopes up, but clearly reality between York and Union is just ridiculous!

  145. may

    cupe member with child said that the two year thing isnt a big deal, they can let that go, its the job security thing, and funding

  146. Insider2

    @ Shelja

    Unfortunately a lot of York decisions are made while keeping the public in darkness. I am not really sure if the benefit from blasting news.

    I hope the really reconsider negotiating with better terms as the time is passing and it seems already confirmed that there will be no classes next week.

  147. Face of a Closer

    GOod thing there is still time for me to apply to schools like Columbia etc. – ones that support their students; fuck Ontario and all the shitheads in it – but most especially supreme shithead Shoukri.

    Enjoy returning to school on a charter of rights violation, assholes.

  148. a disappointed canadian

    any of you people hear of academic integrity? yeah the degree you have is worth only as much as the people that are granted the diploma know. If they learn 4 months of material in 4 weeks, they will certainly fail at work in the real world when the time comes for that knowledge to be applied. Without a doubt your marks SHOULD be lower and a good bunch of you should fail if you haven’t been keeping up with your studies or learning what employers expect you to know when you are writing that you got a degree from York on your resume.

    York never the less whether or not you have been keeping up with your studies has royally screwed you all if this year isn’t cancelled (at this point in time). Employers all over the country are aware of this strike and will ask “Did you graduate in that year of epic fail?” and that will definitely hurt your chance at getting the job.

  149. may

    what a stupid slogan cupe has ” demand the impossible”, that doesnt make sense at all, its like a person saying I am short, and I want to be tall, which is impossible, lol

  150. may

    cupe needs to step back from the brink, and realize that their demands need to be signigicantly modified

  151. So...

    …did they drop the two year deal for the three year? I don’t see anything that suggests they have…

  152. Pally Wally

    when you get into the ‘real’ world; you’ll soon realise that most employers would be more willing to sympathize with students that “had to go through” this strike, than would hold it against them.

    The fact that you think otherwise seems to indicate you have precious little experience in the ‘real world’.

  153. Here

    @ a disappointed canadian

    1. Only 1 week from the fall semester has been lost. I’m an ADMS student and our revised class schedule has 3 weeks to it. So it’s not “4 months of material in 4 weeks”. Accurately, it is 13 weeks into 12. Have you read the remediation schedule?

    2. As a former recruiter, no other recruiter will ask what year you graduated and if that was the “epic fail” year.

    If you want to drop out fine. That option is available to you. Just don’t fearmonger.

  154. Insider2

    @ a disappointed canadian

    We will hear about this term (academic integrity) more next week 😉

  155. mike

    @ so…

    No they haven’t even discussed the 2/3 year contract dispute. What an epic phayle this strike has been.

  156. Pally Wally

    rumour has it that this article is bs, and that the head banging mediator pretty much said “major concessions of BTWL is all but a done deal”

    Even though the Admin stands to benefit from a 2 year contract, i think they are in cahoots with the province on wanting to avoid 2010. The whole thing reeks to me. to high frigging heaven.

  157. ieatsalad

    @ Here

    So wait… they have one week left to figure things out and then after that the year is really lost?

    Please confirm, thanks!

  158. Cupe Doll

    @back to the table: “i think you should take a break from posting as you are now referring to students as …”powerless, voiceless…”

    Students have got no voice at the table where their academic future gets carved up — where their year has been academically ruined.

    It’s worse for students than taxation without representation. This is ruination without representation.

    “referring to posters as “imbeciles”

    Not “posters”. Just “Truth”. And you know what? Not even “Truth”. Just the position “Truth” advocates.

    So, fair enough. I was rushing too much and apologise for not making it more clear. I don’t know “Truth” and don’t know if s/he seriously advocates such false ideology. Don’t much care. My point was only an imbecile would seriously advocate such false ideology on behalf of the 3903 in-training ruling elite.

    Is “Truth” pulling the chains on all our legs? Is “Truth” advocating seriously? Is “Truth” an imbecile — or just overdoing hir comedy? Don’t know. Don’t care.

    “suggesting that they “need to get shot on sight.” you have stepped over the line in advocating violence and perhaps you should step back a bit.”

    I am not advocating violence. However hasty, there was no such intent. And, obviously, my expectation that the sarcastic tone would come through loud and clear was mistaken.

    I am not advocating violence. I am pointing out that class-enemies — those advocating for oppressors against the oppressed — get dealt with most harshly by proponents of the very ideology “Truth” falsely advocates.

  159. mike

    @ ieatsalad

    When did he say anything about losing the year after this week.
    Learn to read, hookt on fonix werkd fer yew!

  160. Here

    @ ieatsalad.

    No. What I was saying was that there is NO timetable for the strike to cause the end of the school year. We have only lost 1 teaching week of the fall term and the fall exam schedule has been compressed in half.

    Clearer?

  161. SumbanthSingh

    CHINESE DIRTY DISEASE WILL WIPE OUT THE EARTH. THINK IM JOKING?

  162. B

    Yorkstrike – when are you going to finally ban the IP of that ever annoying poster above?

  163. mike

    man level 2 is hard. i got 325

  164. So...

    @ CUPE GMM Member

    I’m confused about your 2010 pound elephant in the room comment….

  165. ieatsalad

    @ Here

    Sorry I was multitasking, and as a consequence misread your comment.

    @ Mike

    Thanks for the tip. Just got my self the “Hooked on Phonics – Learn to Read Deluxe System” off Amazon, and I can’t wait to be literate. 🙂

  166. mike

    lol sorry

    😦

  167. Andrew

    The idea that the admin “stands to benefit” by weakening their independence from government, and allowing one of their unions to grab extra provincial cash by negotiating a sweetheart deal for themselves, is horseshit.

  168. Pally Wally

    The government in BC used to fund post-secondary to the point that it was basically free. No one there is making claims that their autonomy was ever in jeopardy, or whatever.

    “I use strong words and call people stupid, listen to what I say”

    Ok, but there are a lot of your types around

  169. mike

    Pally Wally

    Why don’t you take a step back and FUCK YOUR OWN FACE!

  170. Andrew

    Completely different situation. The government already provides money. What the union wants to do is provide money, and get the government involved in how money is spent.

  171. Andrew

    “provide money” -> “get the government to provide money”

  172. Pally Wally

    I think the goal of 2010 is just to get money for the demands of the union; anyone that thinks the state can run the university any better is an idiot.

    The question of autonomy is obviously one which will occur regardless of who the stakeholders are; government or not. If anything the union is attempting to dictate government policy, rather than vice versa

  173. j

    Sorry, off topic.

    Did any other ADMS student get the e-mail about the “very important ADMS town hall meeting” on Monday?

    What is that about? and why such a cryptic e-mail?

  174. Cupe Doll

    @Pally Wally: “.. the head banging mediator pretty much said major concessions or BTWL is all but a done deal… ”

    How the mediator gets interpreted depends at least somewhat on the listener, no? Would have sounded like he was demanding “major concessions” if you agree 3903 have only been demanding what’s reasonable.

    On the other hand, he would have sounded like he was only demanding a little “reasonable” movement if you agree 3903 have made too many impossible demands.

    “The whole thing reeks to me. to high frigging heaven.”

    You can’t see any way we maybe got too ideological, made too many impossible demands and irretrievably damaged the York community for no real good reason?

  175. Pally Wally

    CUPEDoll,

    Your executive really fucked things up – I’ve always said that. It gave the Admin the political capital to stay away from the bargaining table in late NOv/ALL December and to now play the victim card in the media and to the preem.

    As far as the overly-ideological demands go, those were largely thrown off once the ‘let the bargaining team bargain’ voice emerged a few weeks into the strike. Since then, I haven’t paid as close attention as perhaps you have, I would say that the demands have been in the realm i call ‘reasonable’.

    obviously you should have been asking for a one year deal, since arbitration would then give you a 2 year…unless arbitrators use different logic than me.

  176. an observation

    As a Unit 2 member, I am fed up with the depths that this Union continues to go to in an effort to garner support for the strike agenda.

    I received the following email in my York U account, ostensibly from Alex Bilyk. Apparently, this is supposed to be an attempt at humour in light of the devastating consequences of this strike to the students (their parents), staff and faculty. It is nothing more than an infantile jab at the Administration, and the result further undermines any serious attempt to negotiate in good faith.

    Moreover, impersonating an individual through email is illegal so I suggest that whoever had the bright idea to send this garbage should probably re-think it! Perhaps the CUPE insiders who “visit” this site might want to send a message to the CUPE Executive and PR department to tone down the rhetoric and concentrate on on doing what they claim they want: Bring an end to this strike!

    Good day!
    I am writing on behalf of President Shoukri to offer you a unique opportunity. Are you a TA, GA or TBA Professor? Are you always wondering where to get money to pay your monthly bills and student debts? Now we have the solution for you. Join hundreds of precariously employed YorkU alumni in this hottest new way to make money.

    There was a time when we didn’t have to concern ourselves with all of this. But we are now going through a worsening economic crisis. All the money we have raised over the past ten years, including the $139 million surplus accumulated since 2005 has been allocated to high salary increases for York’s top-earners and big high-tech state-of-the-art buildings where people like yourself teach fewer subjects to more students crammed into larger classrooms. In this extremely difficult economic climate, our program is here to help you fight back against the worst: having to take on contract teaching and marking jobs at other universities that pay even less than we do.

    Our system is to help you make a substantial income while contributing to York university community. We are offering you the chance to join our EarnYorkCash System. This system was created to help you achieve the income you have always wanted! Join our expert team of Graduate Sales Associates now, and start spreading the YorkIsU message to every dinner table, every party and every wine-and-cheese around the nation, all from the comfort of your home supported by our 22 top-notch full-time PR experts. The potential profits are nearly limitless but you must act now!

    Best regards,
    Alex Bilyk
    Director, Media Relations
    416-736-5603
    bilyk@yorku.ca
    http://www.yorku.ca/web/media/
    http://www.yorku50.ca/shop/index.html

  177. clennis

    given that cupe’s bargaining position is increasingly public, maybe posters here could work on more concrete criticisms (f**k the union, f**k york isn’t going to help us out of this).
    nowhere in the list of demands does “bringing neoliberalism to its knees” appear, and so insisting that ad nauseum doesn’t help bring the strike to resolution.
    right now cupe is re-framing its demands, and its important that cupe members weigh in on what they find unreasonable or unhelpful.

    @cupe doll
    unless your position has changed, you advocate greater job security for unit 2s, and since this has become a sticking point in negotiations, is it something that should be discarded? revised? insisted upon? enlarged?

    @mike
    i’ve now worked two union jobs. the first paid 10.50/hour, and the second pays $659/month. not all union jobs can be painted with one brush – the ones offered in universities pay substantially less than those in the (wholly) private sector. and, they are fiercely competed for (i.e. the admissions process for getting in to grad school) in a way that’s much more rigorous than most jobs.

    re:btwl
    mike harris refused to institute btwl in 2000/2001, and we all know how fond he was of unions…
    if btwl legislation is enacted, i will withdraw from my graduate program at york.

  178. clennis

    what impossible demands are on the table, and what is it that makes them impossible?
    if you’re right, then i’m on your side.
    i’m a big fan of the possible, and not a very big fan of our union’s SLOGAN, but i’m not yet convinced its reflected in what’s being asked for.
    show me the money!

  179. Indira

    I like Cupe Doll.

    You are a nice person!

  180. i like compromised degrees mmmm

    @ a disappointed canadian

    That post is completely correct. I can’t stand people saying that we’ve only lost 1 week. I lost 8 classes and a performance in one single course.

    @ pally wally ding dong

    HAHAH ya the “real world” would sympathize with York students who went through this strike – are you fucked? why would someone want to hire you over someone who studied material in a much more thorough and organized way. Face the facts everyone your education has been completely compromised.

    It’s not about spreading fear, it’s about learning in an environment conducive to learning. Go ahead rush on with your year and get a degree that has a portion of it that is quite compromised.

    it’s not even a matter of opinion, its simple – we are getting fucked.

  181. me

    andrew and pally wally

    the idea behind 2010 is that the *threat* of province-wide strikes will compel all stakeholders – administrators, faculty groups, and students – to join together to lobby the province for more funding. not funding for cupe per se, and not funding arrangements between government and unions that override institution autonomy. chronic underfunding has been stripping universities of their ability to function and grow properly for at least a decade and most of the stakeholders have proven relatively ineffective in putting it on the public agenda. they just keep raising tuitions and deferring new hires and stuffing a few more bodies in the classroom and hoping nobody notices.

    case in point, 100 tenured faculty at york just retired in december and there are no plans to replace them. part-time contract workers of the kind now striking will be used to cover their teaching responsibilities at far lower labour costs, no one will be hired to replace the research and supervisory work they do, and their administrative work will be offloaded onto professional ‘managers’. all of this will lower the “academic integrity’ of a york degree, but undergrad students will not be offered a discounted rate.

    andrew, you seem to think assisting teaching is part of a graduate program of study, so should be unpaid and compulsory. if this was the logic of the academic administrators, why would the best graduate scholars – the one’s who hold the most lucrative scholarships – be encouraged by york to forgo and in some cases be forbidden from holding, ta-ships? why would graduate scholars be exempt from ta-ing in their final years at other reputable programs?

    you also argue that cupe’s unit 2 demands will compromise the university’s status as a research institution? if that is so, why are contract faculty and ta’s currently paid exclusively for the hours they teach, and not the hours they research? why does york offer virtually no internal funding to graduate students or contract faculty that is not tied to their (low) status as teachers? moreover, if it is to be primarily researchers that graduate students are training, why would they require 10 hours a week of teaching internships?

  182. Here

    @ those claiming they’ve lost months of instruction. Can you explain that to me.

    I’m in a fall 3 credit course that was scheduled for 13 weeks of instruction With the revised schedule we will have had 12 weeks. Even with my limited math, that’s a loss of 1 week. Even the course requirements are the same.

    Don’t state it. Explain it.

  183. Andrew

    @me

    Unfortunately I don’t have time to respond fully, but:

    “andrew, you seem to think assisting teaching is part of a graduate program of study, so should be unpaid and compulsory”

    That is not true and I have no idea how you got that impression. Where I did my grad school, TAing was optional, so only those who enjoyed it (like me) did it. I think it would be great if we could have that situation at York.

    “if that is so, why are contract faculty and ta’s currently paid exclusively for the hours they teach, and not the hours they research?”

    Because it’s not in their job description?

    “why does york offer virtually no internal funding to graduate students or contract faculty that is not tied to their (low) status as teachers? ”

    I think this is not the case in every department. It is certainly false in mine: graduate students are directly funded. Which, as I said above, is great.

    Anyway, gotta run.

  184. Here

    @ i like compromised degrees mmmm

    Are you that illiterate and lacking in intelligence that you have to swear? If you have a valid point there would be no need to be vulgar.

    As I mentioned, there is no positive nor negative connotation to a degree from York from this year. I’ve been there looking at resumes and evaluating them. Working for the Royal Bank, only in business schools and only for “high track” positions was there a ranking. Queens, Ivey, & Schulich rank above the rest.

  185. G

    @ Here

    I also have a 3 credit course let’s do the math. Strike started November 6. I had class for this course until December 1. From November 6 – December 1 I have missed 3 and if you count the last day which really does not matter in my case it would be 4 missed lectures. Not a lot in my opinion but each lecture equals one week therefore I have missed at least 3 weeks of lecture. I think with the remediation these 3 weeks are not affected seriously in my opinion. But its not one week as some have said its actually a bit more. So you’re right its not months of miss instructions until you take into account full year courses. For my full year courses I have missed 7 lectures which equals 7 weeks. I think maybe this is what people are talking about.

  186. Natalia

    i heard the union proposed a counter offer? anybody got any info on that?

  187. me

    @ andrew

    i’ve been reading these posts (including yours and anyone else named andrew) for so long, i must be confused. sorry.

  188. mike

    @ all

    get laid.

  189. clennis

    we can all be a little uncharitable to one another on this site (myself included).
    my apologies for letting my anger get the better of me from time to time.

  190. M.

    @ G
    Right – you’ve missed 3 weeks of lectures in a 3 credit course. And when we get back to school, we will have at least two more weeks of classes. Meaning you will have missed only 1 week of lecture.

  191. Disaffected Yufite

    @ G and others:

    No, it’s not that you’ve actually missed 7 lectures, only that some of those lectures have been delayed.

    Seriously, have people never had a class cancelled becuase of a weather emergency or because a prof got sick?

    It’s possible to miss one class meeting without any huge consequences. And a number of faculty don’t give exams, so the compression of the exam period for both fall and winter terms is going to mean that people end up having to write more exams in a shorter period, which admittedly sucks, but how many full year courses actually hold meetings during the exam period?

    I’m not at all happy about the prospect of the winter term extending into June or July, but the University will keep extending the term until there’s no possibility of pushing it back further. Summer will probably be cancelled and faculty who teach part of their normal load during summer term have already been told to anticipate that they’ll need to make up those courses in spring or fall.

  192. i like compromised degrees mmmm

    i do get laid , a lot too. Having sex doesn’t solve these problems…

  193. Commuter

    Union counter-offer met with silence by York U.
    Updated: Fri Jan. 23 2009 3:42:34 PM

    ctvtoronto.ca

    The union representing striking contract faculty and other staff at York University is “disappointed” after their latest counter-offer was met with silence from the opposition.

    The Canadian Union of Public Employees 3903 made a significant counter-offer with reductions to its key demands, CUPE spokesperson Tyler Shipley told ctvtoronto.ca on Friday.

    In response, there’s been no movement from York University’s side, Shipley said.

    “We’re disappointed to say the least,” he said.

    “Let’s put it this way, we’ve talked to the mediator,” Alex Bilyk, a York University spokesperson told ctvtoronto.ca on Friday regarding the union’s counter-counter.

    It’s the first such move in negotiations since talks collapsed on Jan. 9 and the university asked the province to conduct a secret-ballot vote on its then-tabled offer. Sixty-three per cent of CUPE members rejected the offer on the advice of the union.

    “They’re holding out on an offer that’s been defeated already. It’s absurd,” Shipley said. “It’s the eleventh hour and they need to be at table negotiating.”

    Earlier in the week, Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty brought in Reg Pearson to mediate talks between the two sides and help resolve the 11-week strike.

    Talks are scheduled to resume Friday for the fourth round of face-to-face talks since the strike began on Nov. 6.

    The strike by about 3,300 contract workers and teaching assistants has cancelled classes for some 50,000 students, but about 5,000 are set to resume classes on Monday, Jan. 26.

    The senate’s executive committee decided late Wednesday that students in the following four study areas will be allowed to return to class:

    students in the School of Administrative Studies in the Atkinson Faculty of Liberal & Professional Studies
    undergraduates in the Schulich School of Business
    students in the Faculty of Education’s Pre-Service Full Time Consecutive Program, for which the Ontario Teachers’ Federation has lifted its suspension of practica
    students in the Master of Public Policy, Administration & Law Program in Atkinson

    With files from The Canadian Press

  194. Aaron

    Big fucking surprise, that is. *rolls eyes*

  195. G

    @ Disaffected Yufite

    I know they have been delayed sorry I did not make myself clear. I have had 7 delayed lectures so far which probably means my course will extend into May or even June. And to tell you the truth I have not missed a lecture b/c of a winter storm I have not been that lucky lol.

  196. Ayla

    Let’s hope the mediator does his job well… Both sides are too greedy for their own good. Poor poor us (students)!

  197. Dd

    To all this we are missing 7 weeks none sense:

    Look at it this way….

    It’s like someone pressed pause halfway through a movie and went to get popcorn. In the time it takes him or her to get popcorn, he or she doesn’t miss anything because they pressed pause. When they comeback with their popcorn, they can settle back onto the couch press pause and pick up where they left off. Except for now they have decided that they used up a little too much time getting the popcorn and will skip watching the credits roll to compensate.

    And no one will care that in the midst of your 4 year degree, you missed 2 weeks worth of content. No one ever asks you to specify exactly how much time from start to finish you spent on a degree. Just that you earned it, versus forking over loads of cash for a falsified one.

    If you have serious financial issues, you’re likely doing the smart, rational thing and figuring out your options right now. (ie. Do I finish out fall and withdraw from winter in order to earn funding? Do I suck it up and borrow cash? Etc). If you are mad because you don’t want to go to school and work at the same time. Well, that’s your decision, you can’t expect the world around you to go ‘boohoo. They should cancel the semester for you!’

    We are all facing some crummy, unasked for and undeserved circumstances. But, hey, tough. You make do with the cards your dealt and you figure out what to do. It’s life.

  198. If no deal this weekend, Back To Work Legislation IS Guaranteed

    If CUPE 3903 doesn’t make a deal by this weekend, the McGuinty government will call Legislature back early on Monday or Tuesday and invoke back-to-work legislation.

    Don’t believe me?

    Just wait and see for yourself!

  199. Commuter

    @ If no deal this weekend, Back To Work Legislation IS Guaranteed

    How long will it take to pass?

  200. ystudent22

    @If no deal this weekend, Back To Work Legislation IS Guaranteed

    Where did u get this information from?!

  201. MR Two

    Kinda hard to believe seeing as McGuinty is a douchebag of epic proportions.

  202. aaaaaaaaahhh

    plz don’t post crap, if you don’t have proof (source)

  203. UnderGrad Int'l

    Yo. This has nothing to do with the strike but I was wondering, does anybody know how to get the memory chip OUT of the LG Shine fone? Any help appreciated 😉

  204. OmarInterlect

    to UnderGrad Int’l

    yo, aint LG a South Korean company? nice yo
    well here is my answer:

    I don’t know… their shits just too high-tech for me 🙂 those Japanese and those Korean gadgets
    and I’m Belgian, how the hell am I supposed to know

    you are appreciated

  205. Alumni101

    its so easy to take out ANYTHING.. from ANYTHING .

    smash it on the ground and find the memory chip about a meter away

    …I’m Portugese how the hell I supposed to know LG or whatever that Korean company 😀
    LOL!

  206. @MR Two

    Yeah, but you are forgetting. McGuinty is also a gigantic liar. So, since he said that he won’t evoke back to work legislation, that probably means that he will.

  207. Here

    To be fair, he didn’t say he wouldn’t. But he still is a gigantic __________!

  208. Aaron

    Read what McGuinty said clearly. He said, “Let’s give this one more try.” I think both York and CUPE realize that this mediator being brought in represents their last chance to bargain.

  209. MR Two

    @ YorkIsAwesome

    Touche, we shall see I suppose =P

  210. Worried

    Cupe GMM Insider- do you have any further bargaining updates that you can share with us?

  211. Cupe Doll

    @Pally Wally & Clennis

    We’ve beaten round this bush too many times.

    “As far as the overly-ideological demands go, those were largely thrown off once the ‘let the bargaining team bargain’ voice emerged a few weeks into the strike.”

    Nonsense. We started out making t-shirts bragging how impossible what we demanded was. Then we didn’t let our bargaining team bargain. Then, just before killing the rat, we decided not just not to let the bargaining team bargain — but to roll what they bargained back to Nov. 5th.

    Clennis — you just don’t get what I’m arguing. It’s not that specific sticking points prove anything ideological. Rather, because of our ideology, any point can become infinitely sticky.

    And there’s plenty questioning inside 3903 whether we ought to stick to our ideological guns — or try to get the best deal. Fair enough.

    What is crazy, though, is our ongoing rationalization that we can maintain our virulent ideological pitch while at the same time getting the best possible deal. It’s crazy. There comes a point where striking for our membership can only contradict striking out against York.

    What point? Well, certainly the point where striking for what’s best for our membership requires compromise and bargaining realistically. To reach the best deal we must compromise. But we can’t compromise. Our ideological efforts to cripple York allow no compromising.

    Feel free to keep denying our ideology if you wish. Just don’t expect me taking you seriously when asking more proof. Not after all the quoting, the articles I’ve cited and the article I debunked.

  212. Pally Wally

    It is hard to watch 3903 members in celebratory mode – I could excuse how ridiculous these upper-middle class children look in their costumes playing their games if it weren’t seriously compromising the image and power of the union.

    I have some serious questions about the qualifications of the union leadership. I think you need to hire some media consultants, or fire the ones you have. This fervent behaviour would be laughable, if it weren’t my career path I see evapourating in front of my eyes.

  213. mike

    pally wally

    You write for no reason.
    You phayle at life.

  214. confusing

    @ pally wally

    Toss my salad fag.

  215. Pally Wally

    excuse me, children – the adults are talking now. go play with your pokemons.

  216. UnderGrad Int'l

    Lol@ Omar and Alumni. Silly rabbits. lol

  217. SumbanthSingh

    do you guys like chickity china the chinese chicken?

  218. sooo

    @ SumbanthSingh

    For every asian comment you make I will kill 10 sacred cows you hindu bastard.

    Owned, lmao.

  219. Worried

    For those of you who missed it. The Premiere just was live on CP24. He is calling for legislature to meet tomorrow at 1pm to talk about BTWL. If all parties agree than we are all back to class on Monday if there is not a unanimous vote than it could take a few weeks to sort out. Let’s hope we are back on Monday!

  220. B

    The monday start is a no go for one simply thing:
    The Senate calls resumption of classes. BTWL might sort out the strike. But the Senate has to give us AT LEAST 24 Hours notice.

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