What 3903 Can’t Say

by Cupe Doll

Check out the latest article @ 3903’s site.

No.  I mean it.  Browse on over to 3903’s site and read the article.

Done?  Ok — so what do you think?  Can whoever wrote that article have meant it seriously?  Like, seriously meant that article to be read — and believed by anyone?

Not just because it’s a pack of lies.  But just because how transparent and incompetent the lying is.  Whoever wrote that article can’t be that incompetent — only they put no effort whatsoever into it.  That article got written-off by its own author.

How can I be so sure?  Well — I could have been the author of that article.  In a very slightly alternate universe.

When the strike was young I was asked to help 3903 out by writing in its behalf.  I was told that I’d get full strike-paid for this alternative duty — since nobody could prove whether writing took me 3 hours or 20 each week.  And, yeah — I was tempted.  I’m not one to go sneezing on $200 each week.

But you know what?  I thought I’d hold out for more.  I can be bought cheap enough — but not that cheap.  $200 for 3 hours’ work?  Hell — us 3903’s were almost making that before the strike.  What’s the point striking forever if you can’t make an extra buck?

But how could I get 3903 to offer me the money I so richly deserve?  Not by making impossible demands — too weak.  So I decided to strike against the strike.  I’d come right here and expose everything 3903 — for free for all.  Be worth it in the end.  3903 would have to make me a better offer just to shut me up.  And from then on I would make at least $1000 every week — without having to work at all.

Ok — seriously.  That article wasn’t.  Whoever authored that article wasn’t the least serious.  Probably decided to take the weekly $200 — but only do like 10 minutes’ work for it.

That article wasn’t written seriously.  There’s no reason to read it seriously.  From the start there’s the suggestion us 3903s will now vote “in support of our students”.  As if it’s for our students we’ve been striking in the first place.  As if.  Since we only ruined the education students paid for because we don’t want students paying for education.

And after that point every claim remains false.  York sees 3903 unit2s as “the weakest link”?  Nope — it’s 3903, fearing unit2 will vote YES as we did in 2000/01, who see unit2 as the weakest link.  York has been bargaining in bad faith?  Nope — it was us 3903s bargaining in bad faith.  We bragged what bad faith we were bargaining in.  When we had “demand the impossible” t-shirts made.  When we refused to let our own bargaining team bargain.  And now, when we’ve decided to go back to square one.  Right back to our impossible November 5th demands before we even started striking.  So how can York or any mediator take our bargaining seriously — when bargaining means nothing to us in the first place?  When strike organizers openly declare to all 3903s that:

Today, the [most recent] GMM affirmed a series of principles that should be the bedrock of CUPE 3903.  This is that – to put it really simply – that the bargaining is to come from below.  To be sure, this is not to say that the bargaining team – as the diplomatic body of a totality of different bodies working towards a common goal – does not have flexibility…  [BUT] Thanks to the bargaining team in advance, for respecting that the definition of “flexibility” is “nov. 5”

Then there’s a claim our 3903 proposals are modest.  When, in reality, we so proudly bragged how impossible our demands are.  Right?  Not “proposals”.  Demands.

Then there’s a claim that if we 3903s vote YES then the whole strike will have been a waste.  But can’t anyone guess what a waste it’s been anyhow? Since we 3903s will go back to square one if we continue striking?  Since we 3903s got the best biggest 4.1% yearly increases when we didn’t strike?  As if we wouldn’t have done better to negotiate reasonably and bargain realistically.  As if this whole strike isn’t an ideological waste in the first place.  As if ending this strike already would be making waste — instead of stopping it already.

Then there’s the claim that York has plenty money for us 3903s — but is too mean to give it.  York is supposed to have plenty of money just because all sorts of YUFAs will be retiring — and because York spent such huge money it should have given us on FedEx packages instead.  Yeah.  Right.  As if York were immune from the current recession, approaching calamity of economic depreciation and, most of all, the enrollment decreases due our own intentionally ruinous 3903 striking.  As if retirements and FedEx packaging mattered when York will not only not be hiring anyone anywhere — but will in fact have to slash bone-deep.  And who’ll get hurt most — after students this year?  3903 unit2s next year.  Everyone 3903 keeps lying about fighting for.

And talking about FedEx.  what’s up with that?  First we 3903s complain York springs forced rats on us without proper long enough notice.  Then we snivel about the notice being too long.  Then we freak about how York sends out the notice.  Just freaking.  With messages like this going round:

I think we should save the materials and give them back to the
administration on Sunday en masse.

>On door to door duty today at locations close to campus we were virtually
>following the FedEx guy delivering York’s missives–I was sorely tempted to
>steal any FedEx envelopes from people’s mailboxes…

“Voting NO will bring about serious negotiation and a quick resolution”?  3903 needs to get some decent pamphleteers.  But don’t look at me.  No matter how much money 3903 gets out of striking — it’s too morally bankrupt for me.

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231 Comments

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231 responses to “What 3903 Can’t Say

  1. ieatsalad

    Please learn to write.

  2. CUPE member with child

    Ah yes, instead of posting the article from the Star we get treated to yet another cupedoll rant. How typical. Here’s the article from the Star:

    http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/573289

  3. AndrewB

    People were actually following the fedex truck around? Wow, just…wow.

    Getting a better deal is the least of these people worries. A life would be a better start.

  4. york student

    do u think we will know preliminary results by tonight….or updates…lol, like real elections…..that wud b nice

  5. Cupe member with child is bitter. Must be why s/he so bitterly complains about getting treated “to yet another cupedoll rant”.

    What Cmwc fails to understand is that this is a neutral open forum — and what that means.

    What does it mean when a forum is neutral and open? Can it mean every post at that forum must be neutral? Of course not. How ridiculous would that be? How boring, uninformative, worthless.

    No. Neutrality and openness mean everyone can post. Even views extreme as mine and Cmwc’s. And, once posted uncensored, the views become available to universal scrutiny, criticism and open debate.

    So. Instead of just trolling the comments? Cmwc could take a couple minutes and contribute original content hirself.

  6. B

    Neutrality \Neu*tral”i*ty\, n. [Cf. F. neutralit[‘e].]

    1. The state or quality of being neutral; the condition of being unengaged in contests between others; state of taking no part on either side; indifference.

    This blog has always been far from neutral and misrepresents itself as neutral. It is more of an opinion blog then a neutral one.

  7. M.

    CMWC –
    Isn’t this blog an open forum for the contributors to use as they like? Didn’t YorkStrike2008 open this forum so that perpetual commenters like yourself could begin to write posts themselves? Instead of using the comments to spread their messages? Why haven’t you taken YorkStrike2008 up on that offer instead of continuing to lurk here, becoming increasingly bitter and invective?
    Also – why should any contributor here limit him/herself to posting links to newspaper articles instead of making replies to articles published on your own union’s website? If those articles are being posted for all to read on 3903’s homepage, it is impossible to consider them off limits.
    And finally – do you really think that York students would take articles published in the Toronto Star at face value?

  8. AndrewB

    I think you cupe people need to walk away from your computers for awhile. You can see the toll this is all taking on you in every post you make, from BOTH sides. You use to provide decent information, but now you spend so much time fighting with each other, that no one takes anything you say seriously anymore. Wednesday is going to be a pain in the ass because I know full well (and probably do many others) that whom ever wins the vote is going to come on here and do nothing but gloat all day/week.

    Yes this blog was created for a neutral purpose, but you guys can’t go a single day without fighting with each other. From the students point of view, if you wonder why we dislike you, it is fairly simple. You are holding us up, and fighting on her like children who didn’t get more blocks.

  9. M.

    @ AndrewB

    Not to mention that they both make irrational arguments and refuse to separate fact from fiction. They both shake any faith I might still have have had in TAs!

  10. Andy

    CMWC posted: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/573289

    Thank you for bringing up that great article in the Star today.

    It really illustrates how foolish the union’s demands about tenure are. “I don’t do any research and I don’t have the qualifications to be a tenured professor, but I demand you make me one anyway! I’m in a *union* goddamnit!”

  11. ram

    go cupe!! Me being an undergraduate, still supports your needs.
    vote No No No No
    Please do not make the 11 week house arrest meaning less.

  12. M.

    The teacher interviewed in the article linked to by CMWC does not even have a PhD? Andy is right – talk about shooting the union in the foot. How ridiculous to complain about lack of job security when you are STILL A STUDENT!

  13. yorkie

    are results going to be released each day or at the end of the two days?

  14. Dray, the Genuine Dray

    Even though I still feel Cupedoll’s a raving lunatic, I agree with much of her overall assessment.

  15. @Cupe with child

    First off that prof you mentioned in the toronto star article is not a Ph.D If you trully deserve to be tenured then you’ll be tenured, but clearly she’s not valuable enough, not trained enough to be a tenured prof. Most science profs are tenured because they are valuable to the university. If that prof doesnt like reapplying then quit or apply to highschools or elementary schools I have no pity for these selfish individuals.

    ps. I agree with Cupe Doll, cupe member with child is bitter, and probably smells

  16. Dray, the Genuine Dray

    AndrewB

    The author of that email who talked about following around the FedEx truck didn’t actually do it. When the message appeared, people were aghast, which prompted them to clarify that they’d never actually do that. They were just expressing their feelings to sympathetic ears. I’m definitely understanding of those sentiments, myself. These guys aren’t completely out-to-lunch!

    Rather, they’re in over their heads.

    Gimme my blocks back! 🙂

  17. Dana

    Shouldn’t the main focus be on how the 50,000 students are going to cope with all of this? My biggest concern (since I have to work all year long in a slightly above minimum wage job to finance my own tuition) is a reimbursement for the education that we’re clearly not going to receive this academic year.
    I think its too late in the game to be coming up with plans to extend the semesters. The quality of our education this year has already been lost, and at this point it doesn’t matter how the ingrateful members of cupe vote, it all ends the same way anyways. Students suffer because cupe is too selfish to notice the struggles that we’re coping with. I know money means nothing to them, since they were already making more than they should have been in the first place. but to me money has value and it is earned (usually through some sort of labour exchange with a company)
    When can I expect my full tuition reimbursement cheque in the mail, or will York have enough to pay the postage to each of its students now that they won’t have enough to enroll next year?

  18. NotAMorningPerson

    Well this is just useless for students like me

    We just need to know the supervised votes results. Anything said before that is just useless opinions for students, who have been patiently waiting for an end to the strike.

    Cupe Doll, regarding whatever is said on the CUPE website:

    Frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn

  19. AndrewB

    Fuck you @ Dray

    Those are my blocks!

    Wait a minute! If we combine blocks together we can make a TOWER OF DOOM that will rise above everyone else!

    Wait a minute, is that a compromise?

    Sorry, forgot that compromising has no place in this.

  20. Andy

    Ram wrote: “vote No No No No . . . Please do not make the 11 week house arrest meaning less.”

    There is an expression I’m sure you’re familiar with – “throwing good money after bad”. Sometimes you have to cut your loses. The past is past and can’t be changed; and it is irrational to shoulder additional hardship just for the sake of trying to justify past hardship over the last 11 weeks.

    Besides, meaningless how? The deal they are voting on today and tomorrow is better than the one the university extended back in November, so they have made gains.

  21. Flying J

    @Cupe Single Mother w/child

    Please, I URGE you to try and live in the real world for once and work a real job to put food on the table for your kid who, I must admit, I feel sorry for at this point. Then you would understand that the economy actually has an effect on the everyday lives of everyone in this country. The University does not have the financial flexability to meet your union’s rediculous demands. You are so incredibly self centered at this point that it makes me wonder whether you would consider taking food off of your own kid’s plate to feed your own mouth in times of famine.

  22. Just got back from voting at the “beautiful” Novotel. Constructed entirely of chrome with cherry-wood trim. And from what I could tell, the 3903 turnout is spectacular. It seemed — just to me for the few minutes I was there — like a far greater turnout than in 2000/02.

    If true — and turnout is really great this time — it doesn’t necessarily mean good news for the YES side. Who knows — maybe everyone has joined the NO side and come out in droves.

    But if I’m right and there’s a silent 3903 majority turning out rocking this vote? Wow.

    Anyhow — just an initial impression.

  23. Glendon Student

    Cupe Member With Child is starting to piss me off…

    s/he needs to get to his/her senses

  24. ram

    @ cupe doll!!
    I really hope that this 11 week sit in at home is fruitful for some body. If not for me, then atleast for CUPE 3903. keeping students aside, this 76 day strike should yield some good for someone. Because Not everyone can be pleased at the same time. there will be some body to get displeased for something at any given time. So letstudents be displeased at this time as we have waited enough. one or two more weeks will not make a big difference.
    KILL THE RAT! KILL THE RAT! DO NOT ALLOW THE RAT TO SPREAD PLAGUE AROUND.
    I know you have voted YES. But i am sure majority will side with NO.
    get going!! vote NO No only NO.

  25. bee

    when will we know the results of today’s votes?

  26. jacky

    @ CUPEDOLL
    so are you saying that most of the ppl vote yes? and its not looking good at all?

  27. ram

    @ cupe doll
    congratulations on kissing the rat!!!!!!!!

  28. Worried

    I don’t think they will tell us the results from today. The voting continues tomorrow so I am hoping for tomorrow night.

    @Cupedoll- thanks for the info about what you saw today. Was there any indication in the last vote from 2000 that you could shed some light on? Did they ever vocalize what side was leading with votes? Just curious to see how today’s voting is going.

  29. fubar

    Whats crazy is that contract faculty have most likely gone back to work at other universities. They have picked up new contracts at other universities for much less than what York is offering. Makes me really feel like a cupe pawn. Cupe is a joke. Cupe believes that they will get a better contract offer after they vote no due to how the last strike ended. Last time I think they were only asking for a 2% wage increase.

  30. Ystudent

    Cupe doll thanks for sharing info. I really appreciate you comments and opinions here. For those saying vote No .. i mean you’re clearly not student.

  31. Dray

    @AndrewB

    No, AndrewB Fuck *you*! I’m building a Tower of *Hanoi*! No compromise!

    @ Dana

    You’re right to demand a reimbursement. If they’re only paying us (3903 members) 90% of our salary for this current term (and the Winter term, too ?? I’m unclear on that), you should be entitled to some sort of partial refund.

    Maybe 10% off your next half course? 🙂

  32. ram

    Nope!
    I can swear that i am a student. I know there are many more like me who are just so much frustrated because of the strike, that if cupe votes yes for this offer, then they should have avoided the strike. Then i would have been really happy.

    this has really done irreparable damage to my priced education and my grades that i have maintained so far. I will go really crazy if they just play with us and lack conviction.

    EVEN THOUGH I WOULD SUPPORT CUPE DOLL FOR VOTING YES NOW, WHERE DID THIS SO CALLED SILENT MAJORITY GO WHEN THE UNION VOTED FOR A STRIKE? WHY DID THEY NOT COME TO OUR RESCUE WHEN IT WAS NEEDED? ITS TOO LATE. JUST LIKE GIVING VENTILATOR TO A PATIENT ALREADY DEAD.

  33. AndrewB

    @Dray

    Jesus I feel like such a pawn with you holding out with all the blocks 😦

  34. fracas

    @bee,

    the results will only be announced when all voting ends – which is 7PM tomorrow. there won’t be any news about results today.

  35. brutal

    i hate our school .

  36. fubar

    ram sounds sad…. almost like he is acting… cupe phony probably

  37. Voting YES

    If each TA thought for themselves and ignore what the leaders are trying to tell them about prolonging the strike…

    im confident the majority of them will vote yes and get the students ( who have been absent for two months and some) back into their classes..

  38. Sorry all, soon as I see or hear anything further I’ll let you know. We’re all on pins/needles now.

  39. voting

    Some of my colleagues and I will be voting yes…despite being “told to do otherwise”, this strike has been on for way too long.

  40. Ystudent

    @ram

    thats life. The silent majority were quiet because no one thought that the strike will drag on for such a long time. The silent majority are like us … we were all silent when all of this began. We were silent because we thought that there they will be rational and use reason in the bargaining process instead of spending the entire November and December walking in circles and eating donuts. Now .. there is no time for ideologues. Our future and the university’s reputation is at stake here.

  41. Lol. @Dray, the Genuine Dray: “Even though I still feel Cupedoll’s a raving lunatic, I agree with much of her overall assessment.”

    And even though I know Dray’s a sad and gutless sack of 3903 apologia? I must admit s/he has some regard for truth — having always proven hirself truthful here.

  42. caitron

    hey guys,
    not sure if any of you will have any insight into this question, but it’s worth a shot…. i’ve tried posting other questions, but usually no one replies…
    if the union votes yes, does that mean thursday is potentially our first day back? one of my profs reorganized our syllabus, meaning that instead of doing my presentation the second or third week back, i’m now presenting in the first class when we return (i THOUGHT it said in the academic remediation that nothing would be due/exams couldn’t be given on the first class, but i guess presentations are exempt from that??). i just want to make sure i have all my materials ready to go and that i have run through it a couple times, so any info would be appreciated. thanks!

  43. @Ystudent: “Now .. there is no time for ideologues. Our future and the university’s reputation is at stake here.”

    A+

  44. jacky

    i want to know whats going on now
    more ppl voting yes then no?

  45. @ caitron

    Nothing could be due the first week of class…the first day of each class from returning to school will be used to just tell students their new schedules and due dates.

  46. AndrewB

    @ caitron

    If everyone voted yes, then yes Thursday COULD be the first day back. BUT I wouldn’t bet on it. If everything went through, you may see a Monday start. Basically it is all guessing because it is up to the senate to decide what they want to do. Do they tell people to get back to school on short notice, or give them a weekend to get back.

  47. AndrewB

    People need to stop asking “How are people voting I want/need to know” because there is no possible way you can now unless every single person who voted actually says what they did.

  48. jacky

    so is there more ppl voting yes then no at the moment
    or we still dont know anything yet?

  49. AndrewB

    @ Jacky

    there is no way to know. It is like a general election in Canada. You don’t know how people voted till it is over.

  50. Monday

    Monday is probably the date that classes will commence again…

    for those who are voting no..they say that stretching the strike a few weeks more isn’t such a big deal…but it is. The university needs to give the students a heads up b4 they get back to their classes…

  51. 2 months

    2 months was the whole spring break for those in highschool.

  52. 2 months

    just to show how ridiculously long this strike lasted

  53. Ystudent

    @ Caitron

    I’m impressed that you have been getting work done on the course at all. According to the York Senate, all professors will have to take stock of where students are at when the strike ends , which means that because the course will have to be condensed , the structure and sequencing of the elements of the assignments will likely have to be adjusted, but not in the first week of classes.

    Bear in mind that the course has been suspended for the duration of the strike and your work at home is not really responsible for filling in the time.

  54. unfair

    It is unfair for students to “get back right into action” after this abrupt halt of classes.. Profs will hopefully understand this and act appropriately

  55. unfair

    *accordingly

  56. Kari

    Does anyone else feel like a fucking bum because of this strike??

  57. york student

    re: yes..spent mostly at home except for some shopping and movies

  58. caitron

    thanks everyone for your input! i’m not quite sure what i should do about the presentation…. i don’t really wanna whine to the prof “but the remediation bulletin sa-ayyys”…. because i have her for the rest of the year and don’t wanna cause problems, AND she’s a great prof and really nice. but then again, i don’t really think it’s fair that i’m being held to a different standard than other students, especially because this isn’t when i was originally supposed to go (others are scheduled ahead of me). guess i’ll just try to have it ready anyway…. (sigh)

  59. Dray

    @cupedoll:

    I know that, to you, anyone that doesn’t unilaterally loath CUPE is a CUPE apologist, so I thank you for the kind compliment on all counts.

  60. caitron

    haha i’ve been a huge bum as well! i worked a lot and saved during the summer so that i could concentrate on school this fall, so now i’m broke AND a lazy bum! but i’ve been getting scared more recently that i’m gonna be so overloaded when we go back that i’ve been trying to get a bit of work done. and then finding out i have to present in front of the whole class on the day we get back kind of motivates me (don’t wanna embarrass myself in front of everyone! :S)

  61. caitron

    then i’ve been too scared to apply for a new job in case we suddenly have to go back to class. if only i’d known….

  62. nana

    Does anyone know when we will be informed of the voting results? Is it going to be on tuesday night or later?

  63. Bobert

    if only these things had exit polling

  64. tester

    caitron:

    I am in the exact same position. I have decided to be prepared for the presentation on the first day back, and just do it.

    I don’t want to play the “remediation policy” card with someone I have to deal with all year.

  65. TeeEh

    Just got back from novotel. While I was there I saw cupe union spokesperson Tyler Shipley pick his nose and eat the booger….yuck!

  66. Dray

    I wonder how long this hatred and negativity will simmer at York? (I don’t mean negativity against 3903, specifically, but, rather, the more general discontent that festers after after a highly visible labour dispute).

    After the strike of 1997, the hate lasted for a very short time. Maybe a few months.

    After 2001, the hard feelings lasted for maybe a year and something.

    But, I think the current situation’s quite different in many respects.

    Firstly, students have never before organized themselves into communities like the ones we’ve seen since November. Students were upset during previous strikes, of course, but only in the current strike have online communities emerged where students can bitch, whine and get organized. What’s more, no Lyndon Koopmans and Friends emerged.

    Secondly, faculty members did not appear to be nearly as concerned in 2001 as they are in the current strike. Infighting has erupted within YUFA, as we all know — and which has always existed — but the tenor is remarkably high.

    Thirdly, the Administration has never released press releases as nasty as the in the current strike. (I’m still upset they claimed I made $63/hr as a TA. How insulting! Even the cockroaches I lived with knew better than that. It actually pushed me to support 3903.) Public attention was never focussed on a York strike as much as this one. However, CUPE’s PR was much better in 2001 than now, as was YUFA’s in 1997. (However, the tone and rhetoric in CUPE’s internal messages were comparable to now.)

    Such a highly visible strike with unprecedented animosity will, I fear, result in York community’s morale dropping to a new low.

    Given this crisis of morale on the eve of York’s 50th anniversary, President Mamdouh Shoukri has a spectacular opportunity to demonstrate leadership.

    I hope he takes it, but you know, I wonder if he’s up to it. His invisibility during the strike leaves me with little confidence in his ability to execute the massive turnaround York requires.

  67. Dray

    @AndrewB

    🙂

  68. Confused....

    Not one of my profs has contacted me about remediation, should I be contacted them? I was under the impression that there was no contact during the strike, should I be concerned?

  69. Mike Oxbig

    so what are thenchances of this thing passing?

  70. Confused....

    Wow, excuse my poor grammar and sentence formation I need to be back in school haha

  71. Student for Social Rights

    Hypothetical situation:

    Cupedoll received a large bag – with a dollar sign on it – in a darkened alley from lovable Alex Bilyk, “spokesperson” of York University.

    Cupedoll now does York’s dirty work, spinning their views on the 3903s. Hypothetical, yet not impossible.

    Seriously though,

    I wonder why Cupedoll is so adamantly against the 3903s. After all, they are bargaining on her behalf, she only stands to benefit from it.

    To establish negligence, we must first establish a “duty of care.” The Cupe members do not have a duty of care to their students, since they are employed directly by the university, who has a duty of care over cupe (university employees). It is York University who has a duty of care over their students, and their employees. Have they done enough? Have they bargained enough?

    Cupe is always going to look for the best deal, this is why the union exists. Their duty of care rests with their members.

    I would expect, as a student attending York, that the University would have done everything possible to ensure that students and staff were back in the classrooms, since they owe a duty of care to both students and staff. But the University has not.

    Cupedoll, as a student, I cannot blame a union for this strike. After all, they are simply exercising a social right. I foot the blame on the University, since they have the most to gain and lose.

    What troubles me is that you have taken a stance that goes against your union, despite having supposedly no internal knowledge of York’s ability to make a deal.

    This leads me to three possible conclusion:

    Cupedoll, you are actually Alex Bilyk in disguise as a cupe member. And thus have knowledge of the internal workings of York University.

    Cupedoll was paid-off by the University to throw spin at the almighty wordpress.

    or, Cupe doll is upset at the strike, and wants it over for her own personal reasons.

    Feel free to comment on my poor grammar, my cat was scratching my leg the whole time that I wrote this, and now it is quite bloody.

  72. What?

    http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/573289

    “Lykke de la Cour, after 15 years as a York lecturer in women’s studies, still has to reapply for a new contract each year. “It’s not fair,” she says.”

    “I will definitely be voting No – I feel it’s not fair to keep people on contract for 10, 15, even 20 years without hiring them,” said de la Cour, who hopes to complete her PhD this spring.

    Sooo – NO PH.D YET sort of jumps out at me. So, let me get this straight. She’s been teaching for 15 years, is in contractual limbo, but she doesn’t have her Ph.D yet. I’m assuming she has, what, an MA? Some other kind of degree LOWER than a Ph.D? And she wants job security and tenure equal to that of a Ph.D? She’s not even a professor yet for Christ’s sake.

    Why would it take her 15 years to finish her degree?!

    Can someone explain to me why someone who doesn’t have their PhD yet is complaining about job security while occupying a nebulous job for 15 previous years?

  73. yorkiee101

    when will we find out the results of the vote

  74. Astudent for social rights

    It might amaze you to know that some people will actually sacrifice their own materialistic selfish gains for the greater good of the entire university they care about.

  75. AndrewB

    STOP ASKING FOR RESULTS OF THE VOTE. IT IS MONDAY, THE VOTE GOES TODAY AND TOMORROW. COMMON SENSE SAYS YOU WILL GET NOTICE OF THE OUTCOME TUESDAY NIGHT OR WEDNESDAY.

    sorry for the caps, but this is starting to get annoying. Every few posts another person is asking when we will find results. I know we have been out classes for awhile, but use some common sense on this.

  76. What?

    “It might amaze you to know that some people will actually sacrifice their own materialistic selfish gains for the greater good of the entire university they care about.”

    Ah yes. True. “The greater good of the entire university.” I’m sure the 50,000 students, and especially those whose jobs, practicums and in-the-near-future jobs will understand that concept as glibly as you put it.

  77. Student for Social Rights

    Astudent for social rights
    January 19, 2009 at 11:33 am
    It might amaze you to know that some people will actually sacrifice their own materialistic selfish gains for the greater good of the entire university they care about.

    Perhaps what you say is true, certianly I wish it were so. You must excuse any pessimistic undertones I may relay.

  78. Pally Wally

    To expand on Andrew B’s point: READ THE GODAMNED THREAD.

  79. Dray

    @What?

    “Why would it take her 15 years to finish her degree?!”

    Maybe she’s just an idiot. But, it’s more likely because she’s teaching four courses per term.

    10 years or longer unusual. I knew an applied math PhD student who took twelve years. His advisor died after six years, so he had to restart his project from scratch, as nobody in his department was qualified to supervise the thesis. (This was not at York.)

    In many disciplines, it’s *impossible* to finish a world-class PhD in four years. e.g. even in the Sciences, where funding is very good, the average is six years.

    If your funding runs out, you rely on contract teaching to make ends meet until you graduate. Ultimately, it depends on your discipline: some graduate programmes, like computer science, are very competitive and thus higher financial support is offered to students to attract financial support; others, like Sociology, are much less competitive.

    I remember an African-Caribbean-Canadian nurse living in Toronto who did her sociology PhD on the Socioeconomic Milieu of African-Caribbean-Canadian nurses living in Toronto.

  80. Dray

    “and thus higher financial support is offered to students to attract financial support”

    should be

    “and thus higher financial support is offered to attract students”

  81. @ confused ahahahah that comment made my day man 😀

  82. Student for Social Rights

    So . . . *cough* . . . when will we know the results of the vote? 😀

  83. Confused....

    @ arber

    I’m glad my comment made your day, but my questions were serious!! haha

  84. @Dray,

    Yes, I do loathe our loco local. Many years pass without it once crossing my mind. Most of the time I’d never consider wasting thought or emotion on it. But right now? Damn right. And of course I loathe 3903 unilaterally. No point waiting until 3903 loathes me back for us to loathe each other bi-laterally. Right? I’m nobody to 3903. 3903 couldn’t identify me in a lineup.

    My question is how come you do not.

    Let’s try a simplistic thought experiment. Say you encountered an entity which severely harmed 50000 students both academically and economically; which perhaps irretrievably damaged your work and more than likely cost you your job; and which supposedly did so not for any real benefit to itself or to you — as it claimed — but, in actuality, was motivated by some toxic ideology it never admitted in public while repeating ceaselessly in private.

    Would you not also loathe such an entity? If not — then why not? If yes — then let’s go the next step.

    Next step: does the entity described above remind you of anything? Like our loco local, maybe? If not — then why not?

    So. If you answered “yes” to both questions then you too loathe 3903. Since you do not, however — you must have answered one or both in the negative. May I inquire which — and why?

  85. ram

    something tells me that we might have to wait more for this crap to end and that the summer semester will be canceled. this is my gut feelings.
    why?
    In 2000-01 strike unit 2 accepted the offer but 1 and 3 rejected the offer. So units 1 and 3 bargained after that and got better deals in just 4 days which was better than the one accepted by Unit 2.
    So i seriously doubt whether unit 2 (excluding anomalies like cupe doll, an observation) would vote YES.
    If all the 3 units reject then just like Bob drummond said, ” CEILING NOW BECOMES THE NEXT FLOOR””. I seriously doubt whether they can cram enough in enough time to have enough time for the summer!!!! oops!!

  86. ram

    So will he call back the legislature if the Vote is a BIG NO!! ? it is so ambiguous.

  87. john

    I know that at least thousand will be voting no

  88. @Student for Social Rights

    You want to know if I’ve been bought by York and, if not — why I argue as I do.

    Excellent questions. In any tutorial situation I’d tell you who I am, what I stand for — and what I stand against. But I can’t do that here without outing myself.

    As it is, you could scroll back through the threads and puzzle together why I argue as I do. I’ve said why often enough. I suspect, though, the issue is you don’t believe anyone would be motivated as I am on principle alone. How come, though? I am not the only one thus motivated. Not by a far cry. What sets me apart is my continuing to fight against the way the 3903 executive has abused our strike mandate while majority 3903s fall into cowed silence.

    Is that the bottom line, then? What keeps me going?

    Energizer batteries. Drugs. A suitcase of unmarked bills from Alex Bilker. Bilyk. Whatever. Or, like I posted originally. Just to get 3903 to pay me better than alt-duty to shut me up.

    Hell. You should ask Alex why he keeps reading this blog and stealing all my best ideas.

  89. ld

    “Say you encountered an entity which severely harmed 50000 students both academically and economically; which perhaps irretrievably damaged your work and more than likely cost you your job; and which supposedly did so not for any real benefit to itself or to you — as it claimed — but, in actuality, was motivated by some toxic ideology it never admitted in public while repeating ceaselessly in private.”

    “Would you not also loathe such an entity?”

    Of course. I do loathe York U.

  90. Baha. Someone named Lykke de la Cour would teach women’s studies.

  91. caitron

    to be a lecturer you don’t require a PhD if you have enough education/training in the field. it doesn’t mean you’re not a “real” prof, although increasingly universities prefer lecturers to have their PhDs. my dad taught at western for quite a while as he finished his degree; he completed his PhD part time while teaching/raising a family, so it took him about 10 years. i also had professor de la cour (the prof mentioned in the article) last year and she’s not “an idiot”. she taught many courses and i’m sure she has other priorities as well.

  92. ld

    “Just to get 3903 to pay me better than alt-duty to shut me up.”

    Ok, here’s the deal. We cannot afford to shut you up, but we are going to get Oliver Stone doing his next doc about you. Would you please now stop leaking so much truth out there?

  93. GREASE

    Ld just made the new permanent YorkU Student Motto :

    “I Loathe YorkU”

  94. barbie

    Man I had one hell of a time trying to understand what you posted, CUPE Doll.

  95. Pally Wally

    CUPEdoll,
    You used to say that your problem was with the leadership being children and having stupid fantasies about being revolutionaries. Ok- I grant you that. But beyond that, the demands generally make sense. I mean, clearly you as a unit2 are not someone that has benefited from the neo-liberalization of education – perhaps you would be tenured by now if not for the administration’s creation of those roles. Iguess, if i have a point it is this: I’m not sure what you hope to gain from scuttling the strike. You’ve said all along that people’s year’s are ‘ruined’ – if that is already a foregone conclusion, then you might as well get something for yourself, no?
    Its like in Gladiator where Maximus beats the gladiator and then he won’t kill him. Rome (the students!) are already corrupted by the spectacle – let us have our blood, Maximus.

  96. What?

    @caitron

    Still, students shouldn’t have to be held hostage for her precarious situation and/or circumstance. She’s been teaching for 15 years. She’s had a lot of time to think about applying to other universities to find more secure work. When you sign a contract that says you’ll be receiving only ‘x amount’ of dollars per course, do you do so with the hopes that things will become better? Only naive people tend to think that academia is a sure-fire way of getting absolute job security. Besides, in a world that is rapidly adopting a return-on-investment model used to substantiate expensive things like job security, benefits, wages and employment for life (tenure), I hate to say it and this will incur the wrath of lots of people but women’s studies isn’t exactly a discipline that has a high economic ROI. Before you criticize my logic, take a look at how manufacturing and industry sectors are being treated. This is the way the big bad world is headed. Anyone who objects, however mightily or noble, is going against the grain.

  97. john

    I feel so sorry for lyke de la cour

  98. john

    she doesnt deserve that, she deserves a fair contract

  99. Pally Wally

    Perhaps if there were more women’s studies majors there would be less of a gap in pay equity, for example. Leading to ‘better’ ROIs for women who seem to be getting “screwed” even when they pick degrees with higher ‘economic ROI”.

  100. john

    I hope everyone has made the right decision and voted no to this bad deal for the sake of people like her

  101. Student for Social Rights

    I agree with Pally Wally, let Maximus settle this strike.

  102. theowne

    This is an epic story. A website that once brought together undergraduates in frustration now turned into a battle ground between two CUPE employees. An entire university reduced to “that stupid school that strikes forever” in three months. A strike for job security resulting in less applications, less students and less jobs.

    What a **** joke.

  103. What?

    “Perhaps if there were more women’s studies majors there would be less of a gap in pay equity, for example.”

    Maybe so, but you’re dreaming, honestly.

    @John:

    Call me cynical, but in this day and age deserving or wishing for something won’t make it so. When students graduate, we all have to eek out some kind of post-grad existence.

    If anything, La cour looks like a baby boomer. That generation was significantly better off job-wise compared to succeeding generations. So instead of playing the violin for her, I’m sure she’s a great lecturer, but justifying a strike that interrupts 50,000 people because she ‘deserves’ a contract is pretty weak mon ami.

  104. AndrewB

    Well as one of the crowd in Rome, can I not challenge to the death the current champion?

  105. ld

    Grease, I didn’t even realize! The credit is yours. But I want a free T-shirt.

  106. caitron

    @ what?
    i agree that students “shouldn’t be held hostage”. just thought people were quick to jump on this prof for not having a PhD or for “taking too long” to finish it. she obviously works hard; perhaps she hasn’t had funding to complete her PhD because investing in women’s studies isn’t regarded as a guaranteed “return on investment”, or because her time for research has been eroded by having to teach more classes in order to support herself. i’d also like to add that she teaches other courses in social science courses – i had her for a health and society course, not women’s studies. i’m not really pro-strike – just wanted to point that out….

  107. Pally Wally

    I dunno – my knowledge of the collesium and gladitorial contests is entirely derived from that one film.
    I guess I should watch Sparticus or Ben Hurr – but what you’re saying sounds like a Kamikazee mission.

  108. AndrewB

    See this is what bothers me. No one deserves anything. There are people in auto plants who do the same job year in and year out for years and do they ever get promoted? Some do, but some spend their entire lives putting lights on a car.

    The thing is, Universities are like every other job. There are only so many “office jobs” available, and why should any company be forced to make more jobs if they don’t need it. It is like that FedEx commercial where you have the VP of Operations, the Exe. VP operations and Chief Exe, VP Operations Northern Hemisphere. There is no need for that many people. When a company wants to higher someone to replace someone who has left, they can do it from within or go outside.

    Sorry, life just works this way. You just so happened to be born and got into the work force when all the jobs you wanted were taken already. Such is life and welcome to the real world.

  109. AndrewB

    @ Pally Wally

    It wouldn’t be a kamikazee mission. You’d be surprise to see what the locals would do under hardship conditions.

  110. Student for Social Rights

    Perhaps, Pally and AndrewB, that we should both watch the first season of “Rome” to determine if AndrewB’s motion is valid. I think there was some colliseum battles in that show.

  111. Pally Wally

    So – you’re saying autoworkers don’t deserve their wages – despite the auto industry having ‘driven’ Ontario’s (and by extention, many other prov’s) economy for the last 50+ years?

    I don’t get it – in the real world of 1937 – autoworkers were treated like shit, underpaid, died and fell victim frequently to health and safety violations (since no regulation existed) and line speed ups and other things that made the toil even worse. They formed a union – the real world seemed to work alright to me after that.

    Unions exist in the ‘big bad world’ – get used to it. People that hate unions usually think they cut into their already too-high standard of living. What a shame.

  112. Pally Wally

    I totally forgot about that series.

    I’ve been so bored the last week I considered rewatching The Wire in its entirety. Wisely, I did not do this.

  113. Davey

    @Pally-Wally
    The Wire= Best television series ever!
    Wow, Pally Wally. At least we agree on something!

  114. What?

    AndrewB could be considered cynical but I have to agree. It’s the way the world is, however cliche this sounds. If anything, ask people of the baby boomer generation how easy it was to get a job. The same contract no benefits 1 year temp job I had at a huge newspaper company, in order to pay for school, I was talking to all of the customer service reps who did essentially the same thing I did. They pay into a pension and have decent benefits, whereas I could have been sent home packing in a heartbeat. I had babyboomers telling me you could walk into a company, ‘can you type x amount of wpm, phone, etc’ – 25 years later, they’re at the same job, pension and all, just a lot fatter.

    Lacour isn’t up for review regarding how well she teaches. I’m sure she does a great job, and any inherent qualities presented in her courses I’m sure are interesting and important. But once people talk about how people ‘deserve’ this and that, you know it’s someone from CUPE.

    Strike between Cupe and York is a microcosm of what is happening in society. The transition from greater accessibility to security, pension, etc – the good stuff – to a more lean, ROI-based incentives focused society that pays you on a piece-meal basis. Those who are already part of the older framework, like the fat Deans and admin, rely on networking and politicking in order to remain at the trough.

    Remaining in the abstract, like what ‘should’ happen, and what people ‘deserve’ is a noble yet ultimately disheartening cause I think. It also has the toxic potential for becoming your raison d’etre as well.

    If CUPE is doing this for the ‘greater good’, chances are if you actually polled the ‘greater good’, 90% don’t give a shit about CUPE and want to get back to class. Sorry CUPE, we are of a generation that doesn’t care about the heydays of socialism and activism and instead want our education fast and hard.

  115. Pally Wally

    Or – are you just saying that teachers are assembly line workers, and students are the product?

    that teachers are alienated from students?

    pretty bleak – isn’t that what the whole ‘f the neoliberalization of education’ crowd is fighting against?

  116. me

    “At the turn of the century women earned approximately ten cents an hour, and men were fortunate to receive twenty cents an hour. The average work week was sixty to seventy hours. During the thirties, wages were a secondary issue; to have a job at all was the difference between the agony of starvation and a flicker of life. The nation, now so vigorous, reeled and tottered almost to total collapse. The labor movement was the principal force that transformed misery and despair into hope and progress. Out of its bold struggles, economic and social reform gave birth to unemployment insurance, old age pensions, government relief for the destitute, and above all new wage levels that meant not mere survival, but a tolerable life. The captains of industry did not lead this transformation; they resisted it until they were overcome. When in the thirties the wave of union organization crested over our nation, it carried to secure shores not only itself but the whole society.”

  117. me

    “At the turn of the century women earned approximately ten cents an hour, and men were fortunate to receive twenty cents an hour. The average work week was sixty to seventy hours. During the thirties, wages were a secondary issue; to have a job at all was the difference between the agony of starvation and a flicker of life. The nation, now so vigorous, reeled and tottered almost to total collapse. The labor movement was the principal force that transformed misery and despair into hope and progress. Out of its bold struggles, economic and social reform gave birth to unemployment insurance, old age pensions, government relief for the destitute, and above all new wage levels that meant not mere survival, but a tolerable life. The captains of industry did not lead this transformation; they resisted it until they were overcome. When in the thirties the wave of union organization crested over our nation, it carried to secure shores not only itself but the whole society.” —-Martin Luther King Jr.

  118. Student for Social Rights

    “Teachers are alienated from students?”

    I love it, your Marxism is delicious.

  119. Pally Wally

    Isn’t that the guy with the ‘dream’?
    What a fu**ing loser – he needs/needed to live in the big bad real world. No wonder he was killed.

  120. Pally Wally

    It’s not even mine – I’m just trying to read what Andrew B is saying.

  121. What?

    @Pally Wally

    You could make that argument successfully I think. Bleak yes, but maybe it is a reality that people wouldn’t want to discuss or admit.

    “that teachers are alienated from students? ”

    To a certain extent I think so yes. Students enter into a contract set forth by the university which essentially dictates the terms of our education. In a strike for the ‘better’, students are alienated by both sides. This is why when people throw around lofty phrases like ‘ for the better of society’, ‘ for the betterment of education’, etc, etc what they do is not address how the students are getting royally shafted.

    @me: great words from a great man I agree. Shame that people like him are dispatched by the forces that be…

  122. marj

    I’ve been away all day…what’s the scoop….???

  123. Pally Wally

    didn’t you read?
    The strike is over marj!

  124. Pally Wally

    psyche!

  125. Cupe Member

    So just came back from voting, and have talked to a lot of fellow Cupe members. Will not disclose my vote, however, have found out that a majority of Cupe members have opted for the yes vote. It has gained an unsailable lead, in other words, the strike will be over very shortly and announced as soon as it is official, we’ll be back in school for Monday.

    🙂

  126. back from vote

    I only talked to a few other colleagues, and they all voted yes. Although there were a lot of cupe members in attendance, i’m confident that many of them voted yes as well.

  127. Pally Wally

    I think what you are referring to is pollyanna syndrome, person that is clearly not me.

  128. AndrewB

    Considering government workers would be counting, and not cupe members, fairly easily known that you’re making shit up.

  129. Student for Social Rights

    Cupe Member,

    I’m pretty sure that they would not be tallying the votes while they are being cast. Any lead that exists is entirely unknown to protect the voting process. Also, there is a second day of voting, so, the only thing “unsailable” is your boat.

  130. back from vote

    (NOT)Pally Wally is clearly giving out false information.

  131. Pally Wally Jr.

    Ever since moderation got cut out of this place – it’s hard to believe anything anyone says.

  132. AndrewB

    I’ve noticed, people making jokes on here don’t use a lot of common sense. They don’t figure out how to properly man the joke before pulling it off.

    Cupe members counting their own votes…that would be like the liberals counting votes in an election.

  133. (Not)Student for Social Rights

    Just got back from dat dere votin’ place. Not saying if it’s a “yes” or a “no”, but, it’s a yes. We’ll be back in school tomorrow. They had all dem ballots strewn on da floor. Looked like dey been playing 52 pick-up!

  134. AndrewB

    And I agree, since basically Jan 1st when this place was open, the loonies have all come out. Hell I could change my name right now to what ever I want and say “everyone I know is voting yes” and no one would have an idea. Hell most would think I am telling the truth.

  135. Special Agent Pally Wally

    Like, what if the exit polls indicated some closeness, wouldn’t it be prudent for “no” people to say “Yes” is totally far ahead – to dissuade more from bothering to come out tomorrow…?

  136. Pally Wally

    This is a level of thought best reserved for times at or around 4:20, “Special Agent”.

  137. theowne

    Hey guys I just got back from the voting booth.

    You won’t believe this – everyone’s saying that they decided to vote for raccoons to replace TAs for the next 3 years. Man I was really surprised. Be ready to go back to school on Thursday with your new furry overlords!

  138. Sad Undergrad

    The magnificent Auto Workers Union is part of the reason why North America is in this financial mess right now. They severely overpaid workers and gave them excessive benefits/ pensions. The unions kept these individuals in their jobs far too long, sucking money out of the company/ system, for a job with zero skill training required. Unions WERE necessary at one point in time to ensure workplace safety (try the 1920s-1970s); however, that time has come and passed. And having TAs and Contract Faculty unionized is absurd… especially when they are in the same local!

    “Unions protect the weak.” Although this is a generalization, anyone who is any good at their job does not need a union to save them. Sure, it makes collective bargaining easier, but there should not be a strike option available. Unions=useless.

    And if one more person mentions the “supposed disparity” between men and women’s wages, I will scream. Statistics are manipulated for whomever is using them. I am a woman and I do not feel like my job prospects are weakened because of this. I also will not make less money than a man in the same position. Get off the crack people. Men and Women are now equals!

  139. Prime Minister Student for Social Rights

    Agreed.

  140. Pally Wally

    Andrew B,

    If including my screen name in my smurfed nick wasn’t already a clear indicator of my satirical might, then I thought for sure the idea of me, an undergrad, being a cupe member and what is more, counting ballots in a vote I would then have a stake in – was delectably rife with the stuff of lolz.

  141. Prime Minister Student for Social Rights

    I mean, agreed with Pally Wally

  142. Prime Minister Student for Social Rights

    Sad Undergrad,

    Unions do protect the weak. I agree. Prior to having unions, there was little to no job security. Unions emerged to balance the bargaining process, so that workers could gain more rights than the basic ones legislated to them.

    Without unions to put a check on the employers, there is little to stop them from exploiting the workers for their own greed.

    Ability at their job is irrelevant, anybody can keep a job, unions simply strengthen it.

    I wish you luck; however, I think it is foolish thinking on your part to believe that the employer would give all the rights and benefits, bargainied through a union, to a non-unionized employee; simply because they like you.

  143. Pally Wally

    Hey Sad Undergrad,

    You seem to have a lot of talk, but nothing to back it up. Keep on reading the Sun, you’re sure to go far in life! Oh wait, you don’t believe in statistics, so STAY STUPID! You’ll be much happier!

  144. Student for Social Rights

    I agree with Pally Wally, his misnomer revealed his ability brighten up an otherwise dreadful topic.

    I will add to your lolz, and raise you a rofl + lmao.

  145. ram

    @ all
    I think CUPE MEMBER and BACK FROM VOTE are fake cupe members. Because these names are here for the first time. This extreme anonymity in the blog should not be exploited. There are some union members in this blog, but they have proven their credibility by their comments and analysis of the union.
    So, DO NOT GET CARRIED AWAY BY ANY RANDOM COMMENTS ABOUT THE VOTING / UNION AND STRESSED OUT.
    I am sure the above names are not union members.

  146. liars

    A lot of people are saying we’ll be back to school on monday. Is this true????

  147. Student for Social Rights

    Sad undergrad,

    You fit right into Stephen Harper’s pocket. Your the type of woman that let’s him cut funding to women’s rights programs, because they simply aren’t needed anymore.

    Blinded by the light. . .

  148. Matt

    Seriously, what are the chances of the ratification vote being positive.

  149. Student for Social Rights

    Matt,

    Last gallop poll showed that there was a 87.34% chance that nobody knows.

  150. Beware of the many tactics that I am sure are being employed to deter voting by those in the Yes camp. There is no way to know how others are voting… this could easily be a union ploy to dissuade people from bothering to vote….

    While I DID vote Yes… I take no comfort in hearing that others may have voted that way too… 51% either way doesn’t really solve anything…… it needs to be a strong statement…

  151. theowne

    The votes are in. CUPE decided to return to school but kick out Pally Wally and Cupe Doll.

  152. @Pally Wally: “You’ve said all along that people’s year’s are ‘ruined’ – if that is already a foregone conclusion, then you might as well get something for yourself, no?”

    I had a friend once who asked me what the point of being principled is. Your question reminds me of him.

    That aside — nobody’s winning out of this. Everybody’s losing. Check out my “Adversarial Labour Relations: Lose-lose-lose for York, 3903 and 50,000 Students” post (https://yorkstrike2008.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/adversarial-labour-relations-lose-lose-lose-for-york-3903-and-50000-students/#comments) if you want to know why I say that. Though, if you think about it, I’m sure you already know.

    Look, from my perspective? I’m not doing anything at all special. All I’m doing is resisting against what’s most wrong in my immediate surroundings. What kind of person would I be if I didn’t? Hardcore 3903s are resisting oppression and I’m resisting oppression. The difference is that, not being as blinded by not-even-false dialectics, I can see that far most the oppression @ York is from 3903. Right now at least.

    Where there’s power (read: oppression) there’s resistance. And it’s not like I’m the only one resisting. Guess we’ll be finding out how many others there are in 2 days, right?

  153. Fence Sitter

    Cupe Doll, from your perspective what does the following mean in regards to your comment that “I can see that far most the oppression @ York is from 3903 CUPE”:

    I learned from a union source before the strike started way back in late October 08 that CUPE was bargaining during the summer of 08, July to be exact. Clearly, York strategically chose to put pressure on the union to accept an offer with students, as ‘hostages’. Though I am not a member of the union, I am lucky to have several flies-on-the-wall. And I’ve heard that Union meeting are problematic with polarized sides – idealogs, realists, compassionates, cynicists all fighting to have their say. The Union has it’s issues. However.

    Cupe Doll, don’t you think it’s a bit facile of you to let York off the hook so easily?

  154. clennis

    there won`t be much need to read or write on this forum very soon and so i`d like to make a couple of final points.
    first, the 2000 strike continued only four days after the ratification vote was turned down by units 1 and 3.
    second, i make $659 dollars a month as a unit 3 member of the union i and will vote no to the administrations current offer.

    finally, whether or not you support the entirety of the union`s bargaining position, it`s difficult to imagine an outcome of the strike more offensive than all of the energy, investment of time and inconvenience to date leading to nothing – because there has been no substantial change in the offer from the employer.
    with a strong no vote, we`ll ensure that the employer`s abusive refusal to bargain with its employees, and preference for bargaining in the media has been met and checked. the spectre of economic crisis will be used and abused for years to come now, and it`s important we don`t throw away long-fought-for workers rights as a remedy for abuses of power by moneyed elites.
    york does have the money to pay for the reasonable demands on the table, as we`ll soon find out.

  155. theowne

    @clennis

    Okay, so you make less money than other workers.

    That’s cause it’s a PART TIME JOB. You’re a GRADUATE STUDENT. This is meant to SUPPLEMENT YOUR INCOME.

  156. FUTURE

    Enough. I just want to get back to school.

  157. ?

    if the ratification vote is no will they come up with another offer before monday so we can get back to school or what?

  158. ram

    @ cupe member with child / cupe doll

    Did any of you talk to your colleagues today after the second session of voting. any picture of what might be the outcome tomorrow? I am too nervous now..!!
    thanks in advance!!!!

  159. Austin Vigliano

    My honest opinion/guess on what will happen with the votes today/tomorrow…NO votes will rule the majority, however a deal will be reached within a week and half after tomorrow and well be back in school on Feb. 9th..total guess but I’ve got a strong gut feeling.

  160. ?

    i heard that if it passes 12 weeks the uni has to give a refund to students or something like that? correct me if i’m wrong

  161. random thought

    On the eve of the inaugaration of Barack Obama, we notice that the last day of classes was the day AFTER the historic US election (Nov. 4th) that represented change with the slogan, “Yes, we can!”

    Now, on the eve of the tallied vote that might bring an end to this strike happens to coincide with the day that that brings end to the tyranny of the Bush era, we can borrow the same mantra, “Yes, we can!”

    Yes, you can CUPE…Yes, you can.

  162. @Fence Sitter

    Far as I can tell what you’ve expressed happens to be our 3903 party line. We’ve got our problems in 3903 — but it isn’t us not bargaining in good faith. It isn’t us holding the students hostage.

    Let me quote myself — from this thread’s original post:

    “Nope — it was us 3903s bargaining in bad faith. We bragged what bad faith we were bargaining in. When we had “demand the impossible” t-shirts made. When we refused to let our own bargaining team bargain. And now, when we’ve decided to go back to square one. Right back to our impossible November 5th demands before we even started striking. So how can York or any mediator take our bargaining seriously — when bargaining means nothing to us in the first place?”

    Am I “letting York off the hook” too easily? Maybe. But nobody will be able to tell how culpable York is before we try bargaining in good faith — instead of trying to kneecap the “neo-liberal” employer.

  163. The Man With The Plan

    VOTE NO YOU NO-LIFE LOSERS!

  164. Dray to the doll

    I know I’m going to regret this.

    “but, in actuality, was motivated by some toxic ideology it never admitted in public while repeating ceaselessly in private.”

    That’s where we disagree.

    Unlike you, I *have* paid close attention to 3903 over the years. I’ve had friends active in the union. I’ve gone to quite a few GMMs. I’ve complained and argued about them to them. I’ve done it for a long time. Why? Because, like it or not, it’s *my* union, and I need to participate in it and have my say and exert some influence, before they do something stupid like go on strike for no good reason. (Or, in this case, too many good reasons to have been practical.)

    So, what I’ve noticed is that there is, in fact, a plurality of politics operating within 3903. Thinking now of only the most active members, Some do indeed subscribe to an ideology that both you and I agree is toxic (they might as well identify me as “neoliberal”). 3903, for them, is but a component of the larger class struggle against the capitalist neoliberal blah blah blah. The local is the home base for their activism. They show up at every protest in town (especially the anti-Zionist ones), and during the Holidays, they fly home to stay with their parents, who are rich and connected.

    But, many more have altogether different politics. For example, many of the senior Unit 2’ers are your traditional trade unionists: the terms “neoliberal” and “class consciousness” are not in their vocabulary. Others see collective bargaining as a pragmatic matter, viewing it strictly in terms of bargaining leverage. Then, others are kind of hippy-like, striving for “one love”. Others still see 3903 as an advocacy group. Others see it merely as an administrative body that manages the collective agreement, the collection of union dues, the administration of 3903-managed benefits, and maintains a relationship with CUPE Ontario and CUPE National.

    The radical “ideological” group does not run the show. Rather, all these voices have a hand in running the union. They’re really a big mess, actually, with a loosely structured organization, and they yell at each other all the time. Eventually, they manage to agree just enough to get something done.

    Actually, in my opinion, that’s why the strike is a mess. They tried too hard to accommodate everyone’s ideas. Too many good ideas, actually. Some bad ones, too.

    One of those bad ideas was “we should not bargain in the media.” (Actually, that came down from CUPE National.) The union interpreted this to mean “we shall not do any effective PR at all.”

    Anyway, there is no “private” ideology. They’re not an evil cabal of extremists manipulating unwitting rank-and-file members in order to to further their evil interests.

    That’s where we disagree.

  165. john

    I Dont understand how cupe member with child can say the strike is going to be over because they are voting yes

  166. yorkiee101

    UMMM ..
    no lie, the radio just announced that no matter what the vote is shcool is sure to start on monday. can anyone here confirm this?

  167. Yorkie

    School on Monday! How sure can you be on that?!

  168. Dray, tired of The Cupedoll Show

    Okay. I think I’ve had enough of this blog.

    The strike’s almost over. I’m sure classes will resume. I’ve got some marking to do.

    Kids, get ready to go back. If you’re abroad, drive, bus or fly back to Toronto.

    Bye, everybody.

  169. scared

    WHAT??

    what happened today…did they vote yes??????

  170. John

    I dont know how dray knows this

  171. scared

    @ dray

    whatttttt

    is this true?can someone confirm/deny 😦

    im confuzzled

  172. clennis

    dray`s lucidity will be sorely missed.
    i`m glad others see the secret cabal argument for what it is.
    if that were the only thing i disagreed with cupe doll about there would still be no common ground because that`s the one argument that`s been repeated ad nauseam.
    it`s less persuasive every time.

  173. @Dray to the doll

    I believe you’ve answered honestly and I thank you for your answer.

    Now, I’d like to dispense with the (too easy) notion that we disagree only because one or both of us are naive, uninformed, etc. Yet, I don’t want to name names. So I’ll allude more generally.

    Are you aware and, if so, at all bothered by 3903’s history of harassment and wrongful dismissal with respect to its own staff?

  174. MR Two

    Just vote NO. Voting yes = you all wasted our time for next to nothing. I’d rather wait a few extra days or so and have my tarnished year be for something rather than get back to school a few days earlier, having wasted my time over a bunch of whiny brats who got the big hand across the face and were simply told to STFU and sit.

  175. Yorkie

    Did everyone at the voting polls truly get the impression that a lot of people voted YES? Or did it seem 50/50? All these trollers are actually killing me…

  176. ram

    I agree with you Yorkie!
    These comments are increasing my adrenalin and making me extremely anxious!! I would like to have a genuine opinion from a genuine person!! PLEASE!

  177. almost over

    Please vote no, union members!

    I agree with MR Two and many others.

    This latest offer from the employer has barely changed at all since the beginning of the strike. The university played dirty games and didn’t want to negotiate. Now they are working extra hard to make the union look bad if they vote no.

    But if the union votes YES, what the hell did they strike for so long for?? They could have said yes 2+ months ago to this same offer!

    If the union votes no, at least the employer will SERIOUSLY have to negotiate, for once. They don’t give a $hit about getting us back to school, or they would have negotiated since November 6th. Now with all their support from the media and the Deans they look like the good guys.

    I can’t believe I am on the union’s side for this, but, come on —- we can all hold on a few more days now, after all this. Otherwise they struck for nothing.

    and NO the year will not be lost at all!!

    p.s. i am not part of the union

  178. Yorkie

    @almost over

    I do agree with you, I would be pissed too if everyone voted YES.

    But please, do I have to take your begging for people to vote NO as an indication that everyone is voting YES? Please I would like a genuine answer!

  179. ...

    what makes every1 think that the uni will negotiate in just a few days and get us students back to school? they’ve wasted 2 and half months of our time money and education… and in 2 days you expect an outcome? Another thing i want to state is that the students are dumb for letting this happen. If the strike ends, we should start a new one for our rights. If it wasnt for us students there would be no york

  180. ram

    Where are you? cupe mwc
    please give us some updates if you have any!!
    by the way
    How many are feeling that you can still get A / A+ in fall courses with this very short remediation?

  181. socialliability

    I would have thought that the fact that this is a 3 year proposal rather than a 2 year would have made the vote moot on the spot. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem that way right now.

    I am just livid with the fact that when I do go back I will have a lot of essays to hand in, and the classes that I paid for which would have helped me with my essay and made it a lot easier to do, will be taken away from me.

    This is a good deal for the union members, but it seems it could have easily been reached earlier on in the year rather than dragging it out this long.

  182. AndrewB

    @ All Undergrads

    I understand this is a blood rushing time, when you want to be up to date on the info the second it happens. But as has been said hundreds of times today alone, there is no possible way you will get any information on ALL cupe memebrs voting. It will not be released till tomorrow. And at best, these people we speak to can only talk to a few other CUPE memebrs.

    I see so many of you freaking out, and the thing is, there is as normal, nothing you can do. Sitting on this blog all night waiting to see info is a waste of your time because all you are going to get is people posting “it’s over/not over” and getting all worked up about it. Dray leaves and says school will be back within a week or so, and 4 people start “what did you hear, is it back on?”

    I have said all this before, and it bothers me to know end listening to students, seemingly educated people act this way. It is like the people in class who hear the teacher say the test is multiple choice and then 5 mins later are asking if it is a multiple choice test. Rather then spending a few minutes reading the blog and seeing what is being said, we get the same people over and over again asking question that have been answered 100 times. I hope by the time you finish school you grow out of it and start to find info on your own and use those ears of yours.

  183. Yorkie

    Which units voted today anyways? Or did a few hundred from each vote today?

  184. CUPE member with child

    Wow, Cupedoll, after Dray eloquently and correctly shattered the entire myth that you espouse time and time again, that was your response???

    Yorkstrike, Dray’s message sums up very well the composition of the union. Take a note yourself. Or are you too busy cheering on the destruction of cupe’s sheds?

  185. AndrewB

    All units voted today, and it is a TWO DAY VOTE. So everyone looking for information, you are not going to get it until tomorrow.

  186. Yorkie

    I friggin hate York for making this forced rat. vote. I’d rather have them negociating and get up to the minute updates, rather than waiting 2 days with nothing. It’s cruel!

  187. AndrewB

    No, it is life, get use to it. You are not always going to get mintue to minute, blow by blow updates. You never got round by round updates when they were talking either, you basically had to wait and see.

  188. Yorkie

    Fuck York then. I hope they’re friggin proud of themselves…

  189. AndrewB

    Thing is, once September comes back, most of you won’t even care what happened last year anyway. You won’t even give it much thought.

  190. Yorkie

    …Until it happens again.

  191. To HELL with YORK

    @ ram

    I for one am pretty sure my marks will truly suffer with the crammed semester. Its hard to learn 3 Calc chapters in half the time because its not a matter of memorizing. Its a matter of understanding and practicing questions which makes it very time consuming. The same can be said for my Chem class.

    Because of this strike, im looking to either drop out of my calc and chem classes and go to Guelph and do them there(heard its easier too with actually good science proffs) or just apply to Medical schools that DO NOT look at 1st year marks because mine will be baaaaaadddddd…..

  192. ram

    good To Hell with york!!
    But i am in my third year applied mathematics with 4 math courses. I cannot have this excuse because All masters admission depend on our third and fourth year of studies. I am so upset at this whole thing.

  193. Pally Wally

    CUPEDoll,

    I didn’t mean to imply that you are in the wrong, but I am calling into question how strategically wise on your part it is to take the position you are espousing. I think when you are fighting for things that are already declared rights – like Gandhi was, it is much easier to attempt non-violence than when you are attempting to bring about new values, or change in a more meaningful way. In other words, you can have a principled violence – and many have suggested the strike (Sorel, Benjamin, etc) is such a form of resistance/violence.
    I am not saying you are wrong – I am simply saying that if I were in your position, I think I would order my priorities differently.

  194. theowne

    You people keep on arguing.

    York was already struggling , now we’re that shi**y university that goes on strike like there’s no tomorrow every few years.

    Thanks a lot.

  195. @Cmwc: “Wow, Cupedoll, after Dray eloquently and correctly shattered the entire myth that you espouse time and time again, that was your response???”

    Yup. Sorry to disappoint 🙂

    See, I’m satisfied that Dray is basically honest. So I’m more interested in why Dray believes what s/he does than in rebutting it. And the question I asked was designed to determine how informed s/he is.

    Anyway — why should I rush to rebut what Dray believes? It has numerously been admitted by 3903s @ past threads that there indeed is a radical ideological 3903 cabal. Dray, too, came arbitrarily near to so admitting. What’s in dispute is only how influential the radical cabal is; whether the cabal wishes the strike to end or not; whether I could pick cabal members out from a lineup; and various other claims 3903s have made about the cabal — all subject to searching @ past threads this forum.

    To be sure, I myself don’t blame any secret cabal for 3903 seeking to kneecap York instead of realistically bargaining in good faith. I blame a false, absurd, harmful yet unifying ideology. But certainly some 3903s are more equal than others in adherence to the radical ideology I blame. And why not refer to those most radical as a cabal?

    Notice. Nothing more is required to rebut Dray’s depiction of 3903 as a motley, unionized but dis-unified crew than there existing some unifying ideology. Group-identity necessarily entails some shared ideas, ideals or ideologies — and our 3903 group-identity is far less variably contested than Dray suggested.

    In any event, whether one says “cabal” or “the chief ideologues” is trivial. And while chief ideological membership alters with time, while I may not be able to pick the current crop from a lineup — it is almost child’s play distinguishing ideologues from non-ideologues. CitiZen put it best, I think, when it comes to recognizing even generic 3903 ideologues. Theirs is a “performance of protest by people who have the temerity to fetishize poverty.”

    Not to say, of course, that 3903 ideologues are in any way historically unique. There have been terminological revisions. But lack of tolerance and silencing dissent are just some of many ways 3903 radical ideology resembles Stalinism. Here’s another. The false idealization of economic class consciousness by Party elites in Stalinist Russia — and the fetishization of poverty by silver-spoon grad students in 3903.

    Honestly. I can’t imagine any notion more distasteful than privileged 3903 grad students sparking the international worker’s revolution. Can you?

  196. theowne

    CAN YOU GUYS GO AND ARGUE ON YOUR STUPID CUPE SITES?

  197. @Pally Wally: “I am calling into question how strategically wise on your part it is to take the position you are espousing.”

    I would concede the point if I was even trying to be strategic. But I’m not. I’m being principled instead.

    I think you and I have had this debate before?

    Remember when I was saying how I’m against breaking too many eggs to make an omelet? Just on principle? I reject any violence as “principled” unless in personal or mutual self-defense. Now, you could say we 3903s are acting in self-defense. Against the economic aggression of the employer and the whole system of etc etc etc. And we would have a long argument about what “economic self-defense” can and can’t mean.

    But practically I don’t even see any sane way to claim we are acting in self-defense. I just see us striking out like a bully against everything in sight. That’s what I meant when I argued it’s lose-lose-lose for everyone. 3903, the employer and certainly the students. Who can possibly come out ahead now?

    Bottom line: we’ve broken all these eggs — and we never even tried making any omelet. So never mind what principled violence can and can’t mean. We need to get spanked hard enough to make sure we never behave this badly again.

  198. theowne

    CAN – YOU- PEOPLE -GO – AND -ARGUE -ON -YOUR -STUPID – CUPE – SITES?

  199. Come on, theowne. It’s the tail end of an old thread. We do make positive contributions sometimes, our debates here could conceivable make some future difference — and it’s not like we’re keeping anyone but the trolls awake.

  200. YORK LOVER

    @ cupedoll
    GO FUCKKKKK URSELFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

  201. theowne

    Cupe Doll

    So it’s not enough that CUPE is destroying our academic year…

    …even our measly little website for us undergrads to communicate is overtaken by CUPE debates.

    Go and have these stupid little debates on your CUPE websites. Better yet, have them at your general meetings.

    Oh, but that’s not going to happen any time soon, huh.

  202. Pally Wally

    Well, I view Gandhi and the General Strike as two forms of violence akin to decolonization. All three principled, and all three having very real effects on those that hitherto may have thought ‘they had nothing to do with ‘X”
    I agree that, in my experience, grad students are privileged – overly so, in fact. However, I think the more you take a position of non-violence, the more you end up supporting the hegemonic mode of violence at hand. This is what I hear and feel every time someone says that people aren’t operating in “the real world” – that’s how I know that this strike is resisting, and is doing something principled.
    I guess to me I think – is the situation that 3903 members are in just?
    To me the answer is a clear: NO!
    I think the strike has been a complete train wreck from before it even started; it has been at times embarrassing to watch and to voice support for. I would put it this way: I support the Palestinians, but I don’t think Hamas is the new socialist vanguard.

  203. theowne, the debate at this old thread does not “overtake” anything. But if you’re saying 3903s are mouthing off too much in general — ok. I’ll stop contributing to Yorkstrike forum in future. Like you said — it’s an undergrad forum.

  204. YORK LOVER

    @ cupedoll
    I swear to GOD i’ll pay u if u go fuk urself

  205. Pally Wally: sigh. My principle on violence is only this. Turn the other cheek — but don’t spread them.

  206. YS

    CUPEDOLL ARE YOU A CHICK? IF YOU ARE WOULD YOU LIKE TO CRADDLE MY BALLSACK AND SWALLOW MY GRAVY YOU FUCKIN HO?

  207. YS

    sorry I take back what I just said. Im actually gay and only like dicks.

    Gawd im and idiot

    sorry cupedoll

  208. Pally Wally

    CUPEDoll,
    I don’t belong to that group of over-privileged people; and the reason I have ended up where I am is largely a result of running out of cheeks.

  209. YS

    i am playing with my dick right now. anyone wanna join me?

  210. Tyler Shipley

    @ YS

    sure ill have to take you up on that offer. But your pitching and Im catching. Just promise you will be gentle.

  211. Lol. I actually know just what you mean. Talk to you later, Pally Wally. Let the trolls “overtake” this space.

  212. Mark

    what inappropriate behaviour on here, whats going on, this used to be such a fruitful discussion forum. Now it has been taken over by trash

  213. Sho

    lol
    i like how MY comments get deleted
    but this s***t doesnt

  214. YORK LOVER

    @ cupedoll
    I swear to GOD i’ll pay u if u go fuck urself

  215. Tyler Shipley

    I would like to officially announce that today @ 2:15pm I kissed a girl for the very first time. Said girl has also agreed to be my girlfriend. As promised, the strike will end once I can get a girl to like me.

    On behalf of the entire CUPE3903 union representing all 3 units, I would like to encourage all members to vote ‘yes’ to end this strike immediately.

    We have accomplished the impossible (a girl likes me at york now…yay!)

  216. Muneeb

    TA’s have always been useless throughtout my 2.5 years in university I had expected them to be brighter but almost all of the time I know better then them, majority of encounters with TAs have been extremely disappointing. I have lost all respect for them as educators.

  217. Glenn

    I hope Falafal Hut is still in business when we get back, I sure could eat those tasty souvlaki’s! lol

  218. no.

    the falafal hut was bombed to pieces during the israeli air strikes

  219. YORK LOVER

    @ Tyler Shipley
    OMGGGGGGGGGG U r Pathetic :))

  220. ZB

    i jizzed on one of toilet seats in stalls of curtis lecture hall on the third floor. i was in class and this hot bitch was sitting next to me with these nice ass titties so i got up and ran into the stall and wanked my willy. i hope the janitor cleaned my juice up.

  221. ram

    I really would appreciate if every one would be civilized enough to refrain from writing some nasty totally irrelevant things.. thank you.

  222. UnderGrad Int'l

    You ppl seem so proud of yourself; bickering to and fro and yet accomplishing nothing but massaging your own egos and providing entertainment for each other, and readers who don’t post.

    But you know something, it’s just sad that a matter such as a strike could stir up such humour on both sides of the fence. Union members come here nitpicking with childish banter, and even York’s intelligent students come here and answer back with just as slura and antics that are just as disgraceful.

    We can all appreciate that this is a stressful time for all involved, but do we have to reduce ourselves to childishness, as if, like (someone before noted) we are kids playing with blocks in a sandbox?

    I’m not in the informers circle here, but I sure hope that my words don’t fall on deafened ears tonight. Let’s just be mature about this please even if it is oly a blogspot.

    (And by the way, what time zone is this blog operating in? Whenever I type it shows some bogus time and date.)

  223. gosh.

    for once, i can’t decide on who to side on.

  224. FUTURE

    A wide range of banter and some has become pretty offensive. People will stop reading the posts if that continues.

    Is that what you want? I don’t. This is/was a valued method of learning new info and hearing the alternate viewpoints.

    Come on, we’re adults. Let’s communicate in a positive manner.

  225. Delicia

    im sick ad tired of this pointless bickering and trolling.

    Cupe Doll or whoever

    I would like to know when we get results from this vote. And if result is over all no – what are the options.

    please dont give this optimistic propoganda – id like a real answer. Since NO is an option for people to vote – id like to know what happens next IF that is the case.

    please dont tell me ‘we dont know’ – because its becoming a very real eminent possibility and i’m sure some one with half a brain – with some authority – could suggest a potential plan of action

  226. Cupe Doll

    @Delicia: “I would like to know when we get results from this vote. And if result is over all no – what are the options.”

    As I understand, results will first become available around 9 p.m. tonight — and should get posted here by someone/other within minutes after that.

    What if the vote turns out all NO? Doesn’t seem to matter much any more. 3903 striking has turned into an embarassment so public — too humiliating for any politician anywhere to not denounce it. So the politicians only argue when to legislate — not if. They seem to agree that if the vote is all NO — then that’s when.

    When will classes re-start? From everything I’ve heard & been told: Friday this week earliest — another week and a half latest.

  227. feebee

    is it true that if you’re a t.a. at york you’re not allowed to work anywhere else? is that true for part time t.a.’s as well?

  228. Ystudent

    @ Dray

    You raised very important questions:

    1) for how long will the hatred and antipathy toward York last?

    I dont know. This strike has certainly helped me to understand that there is something deeply wrong with York – lack of accountability, administration has not acted decently and honestly, students were clearly left (from all sides : CUPE and YOrk) alone and this dispute in which settlements could be a easy and fast, became one fulfilled with jokes and fallacies.

    We could even draw the conclusion that there is no leadership : no leadership in the student body (YFS ridiculously represented us), no accountability, no liability, no trust. I feel that everything and anything can happen in this university. I feel that 4 years of studying there could be thrown away due to irresponsible acts of York’s administration.

    I believe, York must now seriously rethink its foundations. Certainly they should build their image again … to certain extent, we all feel ashamed of being part of the York community – and let’s make it clear – it is not because of CUPE – but mainly because of York’s constant state of contingency.

    I cannot intrust my future in an institution that constantly held its community “hostage”. Hostage not only in this labor dispute .. but hostage in the sense of real student experience … of learning experience, of participating, of becoming part of something that in the near future I will be proud of.

  229. whatever

    @cupedoll

    “In any tutorial situation I’d tell you who I am, what I stand for — and what I stand against. But I can’t do that here without outing myself.”

    –Don’t worry, I’m one of your students and I already know who you are. Way to ALREADY out yourself to one of your other students CD.

    See you in class.

  230. YU Mature Student

    If I handed my employer a 60 page proposal based around a raise, more job security, and better benefits at their expense labelled “Demand the impossible”, would they take me seriously? If I were one of the best off financially in my league nation wide and was asking for a substantial sum of additional money, would they go for it? If they didn’t and I stopped showing up for a few months, I would be fired.

    I worked in the private sector for years before coming to York, and cannot imagine being so childish as the union has been. My personal opinion is that the union should be disbanded so that a real world employee-employer relationship can begin. Get your heads out of the clouds and take a look at the world we live in. Demand the reasonable, expect the possible. My tuition is your paycheque, so stop whining and get back to work.

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