Important: Minutes From the Registrar’s Info Session

Apparently there was an info session held by Joanne Duklas of the Registrar’s Office and a member from the Office of the VP of Students. If you weren’t able to attend you can read the minutes written by a York student on LiveJournal. 

Here is the transcript:

 

 The RO and the Office of the VP has been monitoring Facebook and are aware of what is being said. (N.B: I also took the liberty in December to also inform the Managers in the Registrar’s Office of this LiveJournal Community as well, as they were unaware of this community)

– They are honouring the conflict policy for the shorter exam period 

– They will be holding emergency information sessions between the end date of the strike, and the start date of class. These sessions will clarify changes to the semesters, and these sessions will have staff from every field at the university. Therefore, if classes tarted on the 22nd, then these sessions would happen on the 21st in the afternoon and evening. 

– Rob Webb (VP Academic) is holding sessions between the end of the strike and the beginning of classes for faculty. They will address volume of material to be contained in the rest of the semesters/classes. Theses sessions will focus on fairness to students. They are requesting that courses be reduced to key concepts rather than just compacting and making students cram everything into a shorter period of time.

– Professors will have to discuss remediation processes immediately upon return to class. Rob is stressing that they cannot force professors to change the curriculum, but we have the choice to retain our original syllabus.

– The 20% rule regarding tests is still in effect, they are suggesting take home exams.

– The Senate executive has not altered the summer term yet (This we already knew). Other than the start dates for the terms are being pushed.

– The Senate executive would have to go back to the full senate team and take a vote to shrink (if need be) the semesters any further.

– Regarding Residence: They believe they will extend residence contracts without additional costs. They can’t assure that this will happen again.

– THERE IS NO GIVEN DATE AT WHICH YORK WILL CANCEL THIS SEMESTER OR SUMMER

– York is assisting with the withdrawal of students and enrolment in other universities. More often than not though, students who have proceeded with this, they have decided to remain. Again, they are encouraging pass/fail

– Restrictions on deferred standing are going to be eased, a lot of people are unsure of how deferred standings work. 

– Students are being asked to contact the Registrar’s Office (I am not at liberty to release the name of who) if they want to withdraw.

– The Faculty of Education has not made any decisions regarding their sessional dates

– Students who require accommodation with be accommodated within remediation. So York is honouring all students who require help.

– Convocation is still happening, but it’s date will be decided during winter term.

– Grades WILL BE RELEASED INCREMENTALLY (Dan’s note: All the deans agreed to do so, but that’s up to the senate)

– The university is going to leave issues regarding academics up to course directors, therefore nothing worth higher than 20% in the two weeks before exams

– Petition committees will be very sensitive to strike related grievances

– The senate executive team is meeting weekly

– York started a hardship fund for the strike, more news in the YFile

– Apparently students were unimpressed at how quickly the information was thrown together, but to be fair, they can’t really give us (the students) advance information regarding when these sessions take place since everything is still very much up in the air.

– When we resume: Nothing can be handing in during the first week. And nothing worth over 20% can be due two weeks before exams. 

And on behalf of Admissions, I’d like to state:
– The strike does NOT effect the Sept 2009 start date for new and returning students to the university

Source: 

http://community.livejournal.com/yorku/1642810.html

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252 Comments

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252 responses to “Important: Minutes From the Registrar’s Info Session

  1. KAZZA

    Can someone please explain how this would affect a person who has classes they have yet to write the midterm in? Also if we have assignments that are worth more than 20% does this mean they will be worth less or not completed? Please let me know what your thoughts are. Thanks

  2. Mike Oxbig

    i had an assignment worth 15% that i didnt hand in…i want to know if i can go to my professor and ask him if he can make my exam worth 85% or whatever minus tutorial mark…

    cause the next assignment was supposed to be like 25%…

    but i’d rather do an exam worth more…

  3. AndrewB

    I thought there was a rule about nothing can be worth more then 20% in the final two weeks. Yet my teacher for one of my classes has an essay due the 2nd last week worth 30% and then the following week we have our final exam worth 20%.

    So even without the strike, I still think she screwed up on it. Might have to tell her that.

  4. YorkStudent

    So is there anything regarding the pass/fail option?…or they omitted that plan?

  5. tester

    pass fail is permitted as long as it is not part of your major.

  6. Fudge

    will there be a document or published article regarding this stuff?…making it official? or is this the official thing?

    about the 20% rule, i wanna know more of this, cz i have a few assignments worth more than that, that are supposed to be due in fall term. does that apply to assignments that had been started or are they on assignments that were supposed to start during the lost strike period?

    if anyone has a clue on the 20% rule, lemme know please!

  7. Impatient

    So then the since we only have 2 weeks of school, assignments are gonna be weighted less if they were over 20% now, which will put more weight on my finals…great…

  8. YorkStudent

    pass/fail option is only available for courses that are not part of your major? are you serious….?

  9. FUTURE

    More information about this pass/fail option would be really helpful. Clarifying above re: not applicable to major and also the potential long term affects of this choice on future applications.

    When chatting to the Registrar’s office yesterday (about something else) this concept was brought up but she would not clarify my questions.

    We need concrete answers in order to make informed decisions.

  10. Poor_Stupid_York_Students

    We had a strike at my university too. After the third day the students organized in support of the union (the entire faculty went on strike) and the strike was over sometime in the second week.

    The fact that York students have yet to organize or make any significant impact on the general media about their plight just shows how lazy they are.

    Or am I wrong?

  11. 4th year student

    The students had several protests

    York students are not lazy we just have NO say.. so it really doesnt make a difference what we do

  12. Poor_Stupid_York_Students

    …weak

    But then when your lazy, nothing is more consistent with your beliefs than a self-defeatist attitude.

  13. theowne

    Yeah, that’s exactly it, buddy. Now go away.

  14. 4th year student

    at your University the students supported the Union, we dont.. different story here..

    if you dont support either side and have no say in the matter, its impossible to make any impact.

    there has been various protests held by the students…. as mentioned earlier the gov is not willing to step it as they want the two sides to work it out. that would be the University and the Union, nowhere does it say the students.

  15. DUN DUN DUN

    you tell’em 4th year student

  16. Kelso

    take home exams sounds like a really good idea to me!

  17. 4th year student

    i’m for take home exams!

  18. is there somewhere where we can do a vote where each IP address can only vote once asking students if they prefer to have take home exams…
    a more scientific poll?

  19. Commuter

    I’m going to email my teachers and ask about take home exams. I’ll post back with any response.

  20. Kelso

    They probably say it will have to be determined when we all get back. Go ahead tho, I would be interested in what they say.

  21. B

    Kelso – there are ways around IP address restrictions. it still would not make for a scientific poll. Profs will probably just poll the classes when we get back if they want to offer that option. Let’s just hope that whole consensus or no change/screw over the majority rule does not apply in this period.

  22. Kelso

    Ahh ok…good thing im not in a computer related major! I’ll blame my idea of that fact alone.

    Yes hopefully this will be the one thing students have a choice in, take home exams that is.

  23. Commuter

    @ Kelso

    Well I know in one of my classes, I was supposed to have an in-class test before the exam period. However, this in-class test was to be based on writing an essay as a response to a question of our choosing from a handout we were to be given before the exam.

    With that being said, I know for that class it would make a ton of sense to have a take-home. For one thing, we were already supposed to write the essay at home, but re-write it formally in class. A take-home would just save a step in between, help the students (essay quality would be improved), and it would free up a lecture that we could use for remediation of the missed material instead of having a test.

    Another class I was supposed to have a formal exam, but now have SEVEN weeks of material to cover for the fall term (we were behind when the strike started).

    I’ll see what the profs say.

  24. York Student

    At the end of the day, all of this DOES NOT matter! Because I don’t think even after the vote the York strike will be settled. Especially because the government won’t step in and this is York’s last attempt.

  25. Kelso

    Yes I am in the same boat as you. I was to have a inclass exam the last day of class before the exam period back in nov/dec. It was a seminar course so we are behind on those too, it would make sense to take it home so we can move forward with other material in the little class time we have.

  26. F-Ed Up

    I would post this to the author of the notes but I don’t have a livejournal account… so if there is anyone else out there who may have been at this meeting as well and can clarify something for me, it would be much appreciated:

    “When we resume: Nothing can be handing in during the first week. And nothing worth over 20% can be due two weeks before exams.”

    Would seminar presentations count as “handing in” something?

  27. F-Ed Up

    ” York Student
    January 15, 2009 at 6:56 am

    At the end of the day, all of this DOES NOT matter! Because I don’t think even after the vote the York strike will be settled. Especially because the government won’t step in and this is York’s last attempt.”

    Personally I would say that the contrary is true. The longer this strike lasts the worse boat students will be in when it comes to completing finals (since these are usually summative in some way and they are now much-distanced from the course materials/slant/skills being summatively assessed in these assignments/exams).

    Unless you are suggesting that it is pointless because you are sure the year will be lost? But I am not entertaining that idea until it actually happens.

    (Again, just my personal thoughts.)

  28. Yo dudes! I dun want skool to start bakk… wahhhh!
    I’m enjoyin’ de extra free time… chillin’!
    Wuzz gudd wit all my peeps and hommeeez?
    Holla bakk if u feelin’ me!
    Brapp Brapp!

  29. Jon

    I’m also in the boat of potentially using the pass/fail option, but I want to know more about it. Why won’t they tell us?!?

  30. Yo Jonny Bravo! Why you ignorin’ me dogg?

  31. Confused....

    @ F-Ed Up

    I would also like to know if presentations are considered as something that can’t be done in the first week.

    Hopefully someone knows!

  32. Kelso

    I bet first week will consist of dicussion mostly… I assume nothing is due first week… however, one of my prof’s told us that we would continue seminars the day we get back…(this was b4 the strike started)

    I would e-mail your prof to ask about presentations… and if they don’t e-mail you back at least you tried.

  33. York Student

    I agree Cupe will reject the offer, the vote will not do anything, the strike will continue. Anddd for a while if not another couple of weeks at the very least.

  34. D

    Speculation is pointless. Sit tight, we will know next week. If you have any work, I would get a move on it, as there is always a chance we will be in class tomorrow.

  35. demarche

    In case anyone is interested, here’s an open letter to CUPE that some YUFA professors have signed and are circulating. There are 282 signatures, but obviously I won’t paste in those because there are just too many. The full document will be widely distributed anyway.

    ———-

    AN OPEN LETTER TO MEMBERS OF CUPE 3903

    We, the undersigned retirees and full-time faculty members of York University, urge our colleagues in CUPE 3903 who have been on strike since November 6, 2008, to end their labour action by accepting the current contract offer of the York University administration. Why?

    • The current offer of a 10.7 per cent increase to the overall cost of the contract over three years with a substantial package of wages (9.25% increase over three years) and benefits is fair and reasonable, and consistent with the most recent agreements of other unionized employees at York. The university offer appears especially positive in light of chronic government underfunding and the current economic environment.
    • A continuation of this strike will damage the academic reputation of the university, and diminish the perceived quality of its graduate and undergraduate degrees.
    • The potential loss of undergraduate enrolments in 2009-10 (in quality and quantity) resulting from the continuation of the strike could lead to a reduction in the number of teaching assistantships and part-time faculty positions in the future. CUPE members will best serve their own interests, and those of the university at large, by ending rather than extending the strike.
    • CUPE’s demands include a substantial number of full-time YUFA appointments for long-serving contract faculty, a proposal that would lead to automatic full-time status for a select group of part-time faculty without requiring them to demonstrate scholarly achievement or potential. This runs counter to two fundamental principles of the university: open competitions for available positions among all qualified candidates and the cultivation of a scholarly research culture. In the past, the university has demonstrated its commitment to addressing the interests of long-serving contract faculty by establishing two programs unique in North America: the conversion program (in 1988) and the SRC program (2000). Since 1988 the university has made a total of 138 appointments through these two programs. The current offer continues that commitment by offering a reasonable number of appointments for long-serving contract faculty through 17 new teaching intensive appointments (in a new “teaching stream” appointments program), and 5 conversion appointments, providing the appointees with job security.
    • A continuation of the strike takes the university into uncharted territory: the potential loss of at least the summer term and, conceivably, the entire academic year. The impact of the latter on the lives of tens of thousands of undergraduate and graduate students will be immeasurable. Furthermore, if the summer term is lost, there will be considerable cost to CUPE members in teaching positions and income.
    • In their own interest and that of the entire university community, we urge CUPE members to end their labour action and help the university resume expeditiously the provision of its full academic programs.

    — and then a list of 282 names of YUFA professors —

  36. Meow Mix

    guys chyll out…all u people are going crazy and arguing the same shyt over and over again…honestly…pple who haven’t started their work-i say u get to it now…pple who have stayed up with their work-> good job (Y)….

    york is not going to cancel the year. its bull..there is no chance they will…all you pple who think they are-u guys need to come back to reality…a year waste- its impossible… stop arguing and saying “oh the years gna get cancelled”….honestly get a life…instead of posting up here u can get some work done rather than waste your and other pples times….

    by the way….
    to boo-boo ga ga…honestly u sound like the biggest idiot in york…gangsta shyt dont roll in uni…smarten up…learn to talk like a friggin normal person…who the fcuk says ‘yeo daugg…’….
    grow up. seriously.

    to all the other kids wasting their time on this website reading these blogs: thanks for reading. go study. school will start most likely on the 26th…get working now so u dont screw up your year more than what it already is…

    anyways im out…lef 1..ezz

  37. demarche

    To avoid any confusion, I should add that YUFA itself has nothing to do with the above open letter to CUPE. The letter was independently written and signed on the initiative of professors who happen to be YUFA members.

  38. tester

    @ Kelso

    A poll asking about take home exams is located at:
    http://www.yorkustrikeupdates.com/

  39. Commuter

    @ tester

    Well, that’s a shocker. 100% in favour for take-home exams lol

    I hope the profs seriously consider this as an option. It’s the best way to cover the material in-class and be fair to students.

  40. MR Two

    take home exams worth 75% of our marks sound fair B-)

  41. Mike Oxbig

    @ MR Two

    for a couple of my classes…i wouldn’t mind 80%..85% is pushing it a little…

    but 75% is good too…

  42. Commuter

    @ MR Two

    You’re obviously talking about fall term courses and not year ones, right?

  43. Mike Oxbig

    yeah he probably is…or at least he should be

  44. MR Two

    Obviously, winter term I just want compressed enough to have summer courses.

  45. First of all, I agree with Jesus (Jess) up there… ME would like fo de strike fa continu… Yah man!

    Numba Tree, yall fruit cakes neeed to get a lyfe and stop spendin’ all ur time talkin like u noe wat ur sayin’… SEEEN!

    aight! If deh iz N.E. hott gyal dem on dis cite, link me upp on meh cellie! 416-Boo-gaga!

  46. Bobert

    @demarche

    I applaud your colleagues efforts, it shows that with the exception of the Executive of YUFA that there are a sizable amount who do care about the needs of students, and the greater public

  47. @ piece of the pie

    Excuse you Piece of S**T! Do you noe who you’re talking to? That’s like tryin’ to diss off Captain Underpants!!
    Anywho, FYI: No! I’m not sum QP member… I’m a concerned student who hasn’t accomplished anything useful in the past how ever many weeks!

    So yah! Boo YOU! Fart head!

    Anyone else wanna express their opinions of Boo-boo Ga-ga??

    I didn’t think so!

    Think before you speak next time genius! Why would I be a QP member? Are you like, tryin’ to be kool or sumthin’ in front of all these other people?? Cuzz you just sound like my fart wen I take a nice long diareeeah in my nice round bucket!!

    Thank you for your time!

    Peace!!

  48. Why you guyz laughin’?? Did I miss de joke?

    So tell me, why do all these fart-heads spenn all dem tyme here writin’ stories bakk and forth to each odder? Like, dem keep complainin’ yet dei dunn do anythin’ about it… I mean, get to work or sumthin’… does this cite give you comfort from hearin’ everyone elses torment??

    Wat me try fa say is: dunn complain man! watevea happens happens. You noe wha meh seh?

    Aight, rasta meh tired. Mehh tekk a brekk now… Peace!

  49. CityZen

    I wish I could have you folks meet my students. Some of them are incredibly bright, some of them a little bratty, but overall, they are the reason I love being a TA. A month after our course began, I had a breakthrough tutorial, where my students were engaged and excited and stayed back for two hours after the tutorial had ended, still talking about the issues that were raised. Needless to say, I was not thrilled when I heard we were going on strike. I knew a number of my students were juggling several jobs to be here, but I thought the union needed to do what it did.

    Shortly after, I saw an offensive CUPE skit on youtube that compared our TAships to shoe-shining. Then there was the use of terms like ’sweatshop’, to describe our work. While I agree that York exploits its TA’s, I cannot accept this gross misuse of language, or the gross equivalences made with the truly underprivileged. These comments can only be made by people who have not seen real poverty – people who pose with their Macbooks on facebook sit-in updates, while complaining about living below the poverty-line.

    While I don’t support the tokenism shown by the administration in its Unit 2 conversions – I know far too many valuable unit 2 members who are treated disgracefully by York – I cannot abide the derogatory language used by CUPE in its reports on York’s offers either. This CUPE executive does not represent me, and I suspect it does not represent the silent majority either.

    It goes against the grain for me to oppose a union, because I strongly believe in the right to protest against unfair conditions and I have benefitted from the results of past negotiations. However, my patience is now wearing thin, and I am too disgusted with the behavior of the current executive to continue in my unquestioning support of the union. I miss my tutorial discussions, and I worry that when I get back my students will view me as someone with little concern for their welfare – something that will taint the mentorship I hope to offer them. I also worry that my old students might be missing deadlines for their graduate applications, as well as their graduation dates.

    All this struggle and inconvenience would have been worthwhile, if the union had mounted a better PR campaign from the beginning – but there’s far too much internal conflict to do that. In addition, any internal dissent is treated as ‘reactionary’ and back we go to the good old days of Stalinist purges, so that only those who agree with the executive can be ‘true’ members of the party.

    With the latest thinly-veiled threat to visit non-picketing members in their homes, CUPE goes too far. This is no longer a consensual relationship, but one kept in place by threats and intimidation. Let’s end this nonsense for the sake of our students. Please call upon your friends to vote on Monday or Tuesday, and let’s get back to work.

    p.s: I apologize for cutting and pasting this comment; I’m new to this medium and had mistakenly tagged it onto an old thread.

  50. transfer student who regrets transferring

    “- York is assisting with the withdrawal of students and enrolment in other universities. More often than not though, students who have proceeded with this, they have decided to remain.”

    Yeah, people have decided to remain because their “assisting” means keeping your money AND putting you on academic probation so you don’t receive osap again.

  51. @ CityZen

    Who dis? Meh was sleepin’ wen meh hear summ1 writin’ summ foolinish! Rasta!

    No dunn listen to dat one up deh! Me nah want skool feh start bakk.

    NEwayz, meh too tired fa write. Bakk to nap! Yah man!

    Peace!
    Peace!
    SEEN!
    Yah man!

  52. Pally Wally

    Transfer Student,

    That sounds wrong to me, are you sure? York has no authority to ‘put you on academic’ probation provided you drop the course before the drop date for marks – which has been pushed back to after the strike as far as I recall. Do you have a letter from York regarding this matter?

  53. transfer student who regrets transferring

    Pally Wally

    The procedure to get a refund, is to drop all your classes and then petition for a refund which I have been guaranteed I would not receive.

    This is a letter I received from Jacqueline Brathwaite, manager of financial services. I also have letters from others to support this.

    “If you do decide to drop all of your classes, you will not have maintained satisfactory academic progress and will be placed on academic probation, for OSAP purposes only, for one year commencing September 2009. Academic probation means that you would not have achieved a passing grade in a minimum of 60% of a full course load. A student on acadewmic probation is responsible for paying for their education, without the assistance of OSAP, for one full academic year. In order for you to be eligible for OSAP for the following academic year, you would need to submit a letter of explanation as to why you were not able to continue in your course load. Most often, illness of the student or family member, along with supporting documentation, is used as an explanation. “

  54. Fuschia

    @ CityZen

    Well Said!!!
    Unit 1 Cupe member also voting Yes on monday, I want to go back to work!

  55. D F D

    Anyone know will take home exams will also be part of science courses ? ( e.g calculus, bio.chemistry etc.)

  56. transfer student who regrets transferring

    DFD

    its up to your prof, but unless its an essay I don’t see how it would work.

  57. Pally Wally

    transfer,

    I see. I can’t say I disagree with the decision; besides, who wants to put their life on hold for another year?

  58. transfer student who regrets transferring

    Pally Wally

    Yeah, I transferred from UOttawa. I did really well and they were going to allow me to start winter semester courses… that’s why I wanted the refund. I’m tired of waiting to go to school…

  59. Cupe Doll

    @CitiZen

    Thank you again. Truely and spectacularly well said. Hope you don’t mind if I forward, borrow and steal from your text.

  60. Pally Wally

    Transfer,

    I’m confused – you did the fall term @ Ottawa, and you transferred to York hoping the strike would be over by now?

  61. transfer student who regrets transferring

    nooo I was at UOttawa last year, transferred to York for 08-09. Around December I was tired of the strike and tried to get refunded my tuition paid to York so I could go back to UOttawa, where they were willing to take me back and forget about the transfer.

  62. Pally Wally

    How were you planning on making up the credits for fall term?
    If you could get credit for that (work something out with full-year profs) then the OSAP thing would not have been an issue, no?

  63. transfer student who regrets transferring

    @Pally Wally

    I had all full year courses… so it wouldn’t work

  64. Pally Wally

    So you’re just going to stick it out, after all?

  65. transfer student who regrets transferring

    Yeah, and then I’ll switch schools once this year is (finally) over.

  66. F-Ed Up

    “January 15, 2009
    Message from the Deans to the York community

    When CUPE 3903 went on strike in November, we all undertook to seek the suspension, with
    limited exceptions, of academic activities in our Faculties. In so doing, we acknowledged our
    reliance on the work of our CUPE colleagues in helping to carry out the academic mission of the
    University. In addition, we continue to recognize the importance to our graduate students of
    financial support for the successful completion of their “apprenticeship” in our profession.
    At the same time, we have had to recognize the unusually severe budgetary constraints that
    currently characterize all universities in the country in the midst of a worsening economic crisis.
    And we have had to consider the significant negative impact of a continuing labour disruption on
    all of our students, as well as on the reputation and academic development of the University.
    Having all these considerations in mind, we have reviewed the offer for settlement tabled by the
    University administration (and indeed have been consulted as negotiations were underway). We
    believe that the offer is a responsible effort to meet the needs of contract faculty and graduate
    students in an extremely difficult economic climate. Familiar as we are with the budget situation
    in our own Faculties, we do not believe that more can be responsibly provided. We hope CUPE
    members will recognize the gains they have made, and put an end to this debilitating strike by
    accepting the settlement offer.

    Cynthia Archer
    Nick Cercone
    Robert Drummond
    Dezsö Horváth
    Rhonda Lenton
    Kenneth McRoberts
    Patrick Monahan
    Doug Peers
    Alice Pitt
    Barbara Rahder
    Barbara Sellers-Young
    Harvey Skinner”

  67. F-Ed Up

    Sorry about the formatting… eep.

  68. steph

    CALL THE AMBULANCE! BEE BOO BEE BOOO BEE BOOO! RAHRAHRAHRHARHA! ROARRR!
    ….my brain has been reduced to a pile of mush, and they are leaking from my ears…i….ii..i-.ii….don’t want to go back to school no mores…..NO MORES! ;__;

  69. Elle

    nice f-ed up!

    We all want this to end.

  70. Meow Mix

    I think steph needs to stfu.

  71. CUPE member with child

    Hey yorkstrike, I just got this notice. Stick this on your front page:

    “The employer has now sent out FedX packages to our members. There are 2, the approximate cost of which comes out to approximately $40/member. Calculate that based on 3400 members, and you get $136,000.

    They have basically replaced our currently Extended Health Benefits fund with a mailout.
    That’s $100000 more than what they are currently offering us for this fund.

    That’s more than the $70,000/year for research leave.

    That’s the exact same amount as international student parity.

    That’s more than the $115,000 we are asking for childcare (they would rather send you a letter than let you put your kids in childcare).

    These are just a few things. Needless to say, I think this money could have been better spent.”

  72. Ridiculous

    I don’t think so. I think the money is well spent if it’s used to end this RIDICULOUSNESS.

  73. CUPE member with child

    I have yet to receive the packages they’re sending out so I don’t know how it was calculated. The person sending the notice along (as you may note my post was mostly a quote) may have asked the delivery person the charge of the delivery.

  74. ram

    yeah cupe mwc:
    What do you finally feel after everything? Tyler shipley (union spokes person) has expressed that he is confident that the union will reject the offer. I presume you are a contract faculty too. So, what do you think your colleagues feel about the offer? What does the majority think? any light could be thrown on this? thanks in advance.
    Today actually i saw my geography professor. He is in YUFA and felt that forced rat is no way a solution to any problem.

  75. F-Ed Up

    CMWC:

    Just curious (in all sincerity), is that a mailout to notify members of the vote? Or is it “information” meant to sway votes?

    Anyhow, thanks for posting that!

  76. Disappointed

    “Rob is stressing that they cannot force professors to change the curriculum” – does that mean our profs might still try to cram everything in? or more than is a normal workload? i thought the deans were going to get together and they Had to cut out stuff :S

  77. Saira

    Wheee take home exams 😀 I like that idea a lot.

  78. theowne

    Look what the big bad employer is doing!

    Mailing out notices to members…notifying them of a vote? since most of them don’t even bother to show up for general meetings? How EVIL!

    I hope yorkstrike doesn’t put that BS on the front page. Especially since the numbers were made up on the spot.

  79. AndrewB

    To go with F-ed Up’s list of profs, I found this article

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090115.YORK15/TPStory/National

    There are two things in that article, actually in the same quote I find interesting.

    1) Said they should vote yes and that the contract “”It doesn’t address all their demands, but gosh, the demands are so unreasonable,” said humanities professor Bernard Lightman”

    sad when now your own co-workers are jumping on you about your demands.

    And the second thing, someone actually used the word gosh in a news article. That just made me laugh! lol

  80. AndrewB

    I’d hope so, because it is their rep CUPE is hurting. Students will always be at York for contract teachers to teach, but the rep of the school hurts the full time workers. These union members tend to forget that they are not only screwing with students, but they are also screwing with the people they work under and are co-workers with.

    Cheers to you as well good sir.

  81. Dray, predicting

    @cmwc

    There was discussion on the listserve about those numbers. They assume there’s no bulk or corporate discount. It’s more likely $5 per mailout.

  82. caitron

    i’ve exchanged e-mails with one of my profs and i’m scheduled to do a presentation (that i think is worth 20%) the first week back in class. originally, someone else was supposed to present the first class and i was to go the second class, but the order was changed because it works better with the new schedule. i thought we weren’t supposed to have anything due until one “class meet”? does that not include presentations? i’ll have it ready to go anyway, but i thought that didn’t fit with the academic remediation bulletin. also, i have a bunch of assignments that were worth more than 20% that are outstanding for the fall term. will they be given less weight and the exam more? i guess i’ll have to wait and see…

  83. Natalia

    @ CityZen

    You sound like an amazing TA and genuinely concerned about our education, so in case you don’t hear it from anyone else, I’d like to thank you.

  84. CUPE member with child

    A few questions to answer – I forget who asked them as well:

    1) I haven’t received the packages – I assume York doesn’t have my correct mailing address, so i don’t know what’s in them. Even though ve always updated it I still get the address of my MA residence printed on my pay-stubs… that was 5 years ago and 3 places ago…

    2) I strongly suspect we will vote no accross all three units. We’ll likely see a contract within days of that. By any measure I’m going to vote no. I’m considering looking into other jobs in the summer. Even if we do get a good contract I’m not sure that the people at work are worth working for. If the students in here are any accurate indication of the general student body then I think I’ll hunker down for global warming. The future’s going to have some very serious problems…

  85. CUPE member with child

    Anybody see John Stuart tonight? Somehow I doubt this crowd gets his jokes…

  86. Pally Wally

    I guess “gosh” is part of an argot that only people that make ~150K/yr are comfortable with. No wonder it is so rare.

  87. B

    cmwc – given that condescending attitude towards students, best of luck in the job hunt.

  88. HBK

    Does anyone have any idea how CUPE is going to vote? Even an educated guess would be appreciated.

  89. Mike Oxbig

    i’m a TA…i was at york during the other strike…

    it’s my time to shine now baby!!!!! whoop whoop! forget the students!!

  90. HBK

    Ah, never mind. I just saw CMWC’s post. Thanks!

  91. anon

    Has anyone on here decide to drop there year and start fresh next year?

  92. AndrewB

    Some how I doubt CMWC gets life.

  93. CUPE member with child

    Thanks B! Enjoy your swim.

  94. Dray, predicting

    I’m expecting to go back to work next Thursday. I’ve already started marking. (I should’ve done it earlier on in the strike, but I procrastinated too.)

  95. flushafleshfarmFLA

    :::::::slings poop indiscriminately::::::::

  96. tester

    A rebuttal to the YUFA letter is at:
    http://www.yorkustrikeupdates.com/

  97. Does anybody know what kind of options we have as students right now? Or do we just wait and see whatever YorkU will tell us to do?

  98. tyred

    “Today actually i saw my geography professor. He is in YUFA and felt that forced rat is no way a solution to any problem.”

    Yes, it is downright disgraceful that there should be legislation in the labour act that allows an employer to ask that its employees actually have a say on an offer they have made.

    Does that prof even know what forced ratification is? He must have seen the word and said “how can they force me back to work??, that’s undemocratic”.

    On the other hand it must really piss some of these CUPE people off to have to vote when 85% couldn’t even be bothered to attend union meetings during a strike.

    Interestingly, I believe the turnout at the last forced ratification vote at York in 2001 wasn’t much more than 60% in any of the union groups. It’s pretty sad that such an apathetic group could have done so much damage to York’s reputation and the finances of 50,000 undergrads.

  99. Disappointed...

    I cannot believe how long this strike has lasted… Given the current economic crisis, I find it surprising that CUPE has chosen NOW to present its demands . While I recognize that it is within their legal rights to be striking, the fact that the strike has lasted this long proves that they have no regard for the needs of their students. This strike could have serious consequences for those in their final year of school. In my opinion (and I realize that CUPE likely feels differently), York’s lasted offer was very reasonable. It would make them the highest paid in Ontario…and still they want more. Do they not realize how lucky they are to have a job in the first place?
    I feel that the students have been relatively patient with the whole situation until now. If the strike persists, it could prove deterimental for many of us. I hope that before going to vote next week, the CUPE members reflect on their situation in the grande scheme of things. You are being offered MORE money and BETTER job security in an economy where thousands of people are losing their jobs on a daily basis. Now is not the time to be greedy.
    The students are very appreciative of the work that the TAs and contract profs put into our education. All we ask is that we receive that which we paid for. Don’t take out your frustrations on the innocent bystanders in all of this.
    Please, PLEASE vote yes and get us back to class!

  100. TRUTH

    CUPE should stand strong and vote NO
    Defeat the capitalists and slap the imperialism. I think we absolutely must let go of this fall term (and winter if possible) to tell York how committed you guys are to your goal and victory
    Demand the impossible

    Viva La Revolution
    Go Cupe Go

  101. www.yorkustrikeupdates.com

    This strike has done so much damage to the reputation of the university, and I believe the worst is to come. Top students will not select York for the coming years, and the current students will certainly express their dissatisfaction for years to come. At the end, we all be screwed.

  102. AndrewB

    Honestly, I think people jump on the “no one will come to York” train a little to quick. Thing is, in 2010, EVERYONE is going to go through the same thing, and if the CUPE unions do the same to their respected schools as 3903 has done to York, people will simply say “ahh, it wasn’t their fault at all.”

    Media, parents, members of government, etc hate what the union is doing, and yes York is getting heat as well, but if I had to put the hated scale, it would be about 85/15 in favor of CUPE. They just picked a really stupid time to strike and get political when we are in an economic downfall. So they may still come to York for the school, but they will stay away because they won’t want those teachers. As I’ve said before, it isn’t York’s rep being hurt, but rather cupe members rep.

  103. theowne

    No, I think York’s rep is being hurt. I’m hearing more and more from people saying “Haha, York, always on strike” and other comments like that. It’s just causing a negative reputation about York not taking education seriously, allowing a three month strike (that is shameful, seriously) and etc. It’s definitely hurting York’s rep.

  104. Pally Wally

    York’s rep was so irreparably hurt that last year THES ranked it in the top 50 social science schools in the world. Ahead of every university in ontario but uoft.
    Applications to York are UP this year.

    Undergraduates are generally not included in what contributes to an institutions’ reputation. So, it seems as though York knows this and [edited by moderator]

    Don’t put this all on CUPE.

  105. Pally Wally

    Economics:York :: Straussians + Leninists: Yale

  106. Josh Singh Atwal

    *gets hit by poop as he walks in* Ow what was that for? Anyhoo school, blah, monday protest, yay :/

    THIRD PERSPECTIVE

    http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/event.php?eid=60156260902

  107. B

    Just compare enrollments during 2000/01 and now, that will give you a good idea of just how much York’s rep will “hurt.” It won’t.

  108. FUTURE

    Whenever this is finished we are all going to have to play together in the same sandbox.

    I appreciate that there are a variety of strong views about this strike yet suggest that some semblance of repect be provided to each other.

    Think about it.

  109. sam

    As a mature student, in more ways than most people on this site, I can’t help but chuckle at how foolish you sound. My children have more discipline and manners, and a better command of the English language…tit for tat is b.s.

    Look at the big picture….we are screwed..we paid for quality education from Sept. to Apr. What have we received?? zip, a few classes, a lot of attitude, and 72 days of paying for something we are not getting the benefit of or for…

    Get back to class, get back to the reality that you may not always get your way, but we are all in this together…………..a mom

  110. student

    When is the earlier we can be back in class if the vote is a yes?

  111. vik

    seriously arber….like omg…..

  112. Outofschoolfor3months

    @CMWC

    Haha looks like its too cold to go outside and FIGHT FOR ENTITLEMENT (whoops, i mean “workers rights”) so I’m guessing CUPE has turned tail and is cyberpicketting like mad. Seems like cabin fever is setting in now with CMWC

    PS: re: “Anybody see John Stuart tonight? Somehow I doubt this crowd gets his jokes…”

    When you try to insult the intelligence of a group of posters, make sure you get the name right.

    “Stewart”, not “Stuart”. Its hard to “get” the jokes of a non-existent comedian

    Then again, you are a apparently a York student, so I guess that makes you about as stupid or as smart as the rest of us, no?

  113. Meow Mix

    The TA’s can go get ass fcucked by each other.

  114. Ridiculous

    I’m starting to realize the assumption that if the union votes no, a deal will be made is flawed and if they do vote no, we really are screwed. A lot of the CUPErs on here try and push the whole “If we vote no, don’t worry a deal will be struck within days” line and I think that’s just to make them feel okay about voting no. Thing is, they vote no and I don’t think the University’s budging. I would like to think they would, but I’m starting to feel that this is not the case. Please vote yes. Seriously, this is gone on too far.

  115. CUPE member with child

    @ outofschoolfor3months
    well all I do is sit at home and watch the funnies on TV since i’d rather be doing nothing and getting strike pay, than actually working and getting paid well. I dont really pay attention to the spelling of Stewarts name though.

    You might have to change your name to 4 months with that attitude Mr.! thats if I have anything to say about it!!!! NO TO THE RAT!!!!screw the students and their families who work hard for their tuition money!!!HAHAHA!!!

  116. Thats not the real CUPE member with child. Its just an angry student like the rest of us.

  117. yaya

    So what do you guys think? Will the vote be yes or no?

  118. theowne

    @Pally Wally

    I don’t know if this crossed your big intelligent brain, but there’s a difference between how people think of York when it had that long strike in 2001, and then when they have ANOTHER almost identical long strike in 2008. The first time they may not lose too much opinion of it. The second time they laugh.

    York’s rep is being hurt, it’s now the only university that goes on strike like there’ no tomorrow, and people tell me they’re passing on York because they want to finish their degree on time.

    York’s rep is damaged further thanks to the strike.

  119. CUPE member with child

    rest assured folks there is only one CUPE member with child.

    I have just lost all sympathy for all those who think that us faculty @ York should not be paid more than faculty at any other university. We deserve more because…well because we can! We’re in the position to get more money, so why wouldnt we? I have a child so I feel I deserve more so taxpayers and students can help me out.

    There is no reason why us faculty at York shouldnt be paid more than any other university.

  120. M.

    will the real cmwc please stand up? the fake one is annoying, but the real one needs to go somewhere else to vent.

  121. M.

    and if there really is only one cmwc, if you really believed that having a child means you deserve more pay (or more anything) you really shouldn’t be working at this university or ANY university. is this the quality of contract faculty that is supposed to be teaching students RATIONAL thinking? come on. stop making yourself and your union look bad and leave off bothering the other people on this site.

  122. Sho

    ^ not only that everyone knows about the york strike!

    I was sitting on a bus from montreal to toronto
    and it stopped in kingston
    and some girl from queens sat beside me and asked where I go
    as soon as I said “york”

    she said “ooh… hows the strike comming along? transfering?”

  123. @Yorkstrike2008

    Can you please ban the IP of the fake Cupe Member with a Child? I do not like he real CMWC that much. I am fairly certain that if I met her at a party, we’d get into a fight. However, I respec her opinion and feel that she is a positive addition to this blog. I do not want to see her ge defamed. LIke it or not, she has given us more info than CUPE and York combined.

  124. piece of the pie

    lol@ york is awsome
    What info has CMWC provided? CUPE propaganda like fedex local deliveries costing $40 a pop? Her ‘info’ is a joke, and biased like no other. If you dont believe me, just scroll up, you will see her posts.

  125. piece of the pie

    If someone can give me one valid reason why York TA’s should be paid more than TA’s at any other university in Ontario, I will change my position and side with CUPE.

  126. RS

    @ CMWC

    don’t know who you are… but I’m sorry for your kid. If these are the ethics you are teaching, you have another thing coming. You think you deserve more? Maybe you should have closed your legs and not popped out a baby…. you would have had more (rather than feeding and educating your child)

  127. RS

    and another question… where does this January 26th date come from… how can anyone be so exact if every is in the “dark”. Propaganda was made by nazis…. stop spreading hate and starting acting a little more humane

  128. Candid

    Regarding “York’s reputation sucks now and it’s all CUPE’s fault”, when the strike is long over, the only blame people will assign for this strike will be to York’s leadership.

    York’s administration has had labour relations problems for many years, and they’ve done nothing in all this time to solve the problem.

    CUPE 3903’s no different than most academic unions in North America. Just as ‘radical’ as the others.

    The labour relations failure is ultimately York’s, and York will pay for it. York’s suffering reputation is its payment.

  129. Bobert

    + insults to intelligence when being challenged not only by union talking points but by occasional name dropping of scholarly works most of us have read at an undergraduate level

  130. piece of the pie

    i dont think thats the real CMWC. Even though the fake one is singing the same tune. What the fake one is saying is along the same lines, just a little more harsh.

  131. AndrewB

    Yeah I’d like to disagree on CMWC providing us information. If you have to sift through mountains of crap and BS to get the information, what good is it? It stinks and is stained.

    Hell I’d like to discredit all CUPE members on their “information giving” and say that you can easily find information in other places. Look what happened at the last GMM thing. CMWC gives us one account, Cupe Doll gives us another, another member agrees with Doll some what, another goes with CMWC. And they say in the law world that a piece of physical evidence is better then 10 eye-witnesses and there if proof why.

    I agree with Pie, they spend so much time trying to win us over with their propaganda and fighting with each other, I normally just skip their posts because I can’t be bothered to read their rantings.

  132. RS

    @ AndrewB

    I think I finally agree with you 🙂

  133. Pedantic

    @RS, propaganda just means “ideas propagated”. There’s no value judgment made when calling something “propaganda”, when using the word correctly.

  134. HBK

    Geez, there’s so much CUPE hating going on. Don’t worry CUPE members, I don’t hate you. Sure, I might resent the fact that you’ve pretty much ruined my life with this strike, but I don’t hate you.

  135. RS

    information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc. (definition of Propaganda)

  136. RS

    there’s better definitions for you… but it’s not just a general spread of ideas… (false ideas maybe)

  137. Pedantic

    @RS:

    The scholarly use of the word ‘propaganda’ does not have the meaning “help or harm,” and it considers “rumours” as simply another kind of “idea”.

    Many political organizations, particular socialist ones, use the term to refer to all their publications.

  138. Pedantic

    (That’s why the word is “propaganda” — as in ‘stuff that “propagates”‘).

  139. AndrewB

    Haha
    http://gauntlet.ucalgary.ca/story/13110

    And this is why people going out and looking for your own information is rewarding. The image posted with this article I think sums up this strike fairly good.

  140. RS

    i’m not completely disagreeing with you… but any political publication is usually made to influence listeners; let it be true or false it is still a specifically chosen peace of information to illude (or get people to join the cause).

  141. RS

    there is too much of it here from both CUPE and York… none of these representatives are here to help students (is all I’m trying to say). They are just trying to convince who is better… it’s no good… especially for a bunch of students who have no idea on what is happening to their school year… that can’t be right

  142. RS

    anyone have anything useful on what is going on?

  143. k - FEd

    do people still think that there is only a 25% chance that if the vote fails, York won’t capitulate immediately?

  144. AndrewB

    No one knows for sure and no one will know till it is done. You just have to look at who runs the websites, talks to the media and is more vocal out of CUPE…the rank and file members, or the more radical ones? For every 1 member we hear voting yes, we hear 5 voting no.

    I highly doubt they will all vote yes. I could see it turning out the same way as last time. But again, you never know how people are feeling or what people will do. People on this site have made it clear by not saying who they are, that they would be blacklisted basically by the union members. So there is nothing stopping a person from telling his fellow union members, I am voting no, and walking into the booth and voting yes. Same the other way around.

    What happens at GMM’s and in the media really has standing on how the vote will go. We can all post stories of “well my TA said this and my prof said this” but they still got the weekend to figure it out for themselves, and read over what is being offered. I suspect though that a lot of people are on the fence and it will be those people who decide the outcome.

  145. piece of the pie

    I think since this is an internet forum it would only make sense to consider all uses of the word propaganda, especially the commonly accepted meaning.
    Just another example of CUPE propaganda:
    “A forced ratification vote (what they refer to as a “supervised vote”) is, essentially, a loophole in the labour laws that gives the employer the power to circumvent the bargaining process”

    How can something be a loophole if it is clearly stated in legislature?

    Also, as previously mentioned the employer recently sent out notices to CUPE members at a cost of much less than CUPE is claiming. They also forgot to mention that this is a REQUIREMENT on the employers behalf of the forced ratification.

    Just to clarify through the non-sense.

  146. !

    when will it end!

  147. RS

    @ piece of the pie

    I agree with you completely… and by the way… what kind of pie are we talking about??

  148. RS

    apple? strawberry? fruit? or are we a meat pie? LOL

  149. Commuter

    My prof kindly responded to an email I had sent him and told me that our exam in his class would have less material on it, but it would not be a take-home.

  150. caitron

    (inspired by someone else’s post a while ago… made this up while i was in the shower for all the bon jovi fans out there)

    tommy used to work as a prof
    the union’s been on strike
    he’s down on his luck
    it’s tough…. so tough

    caitron sits at home every day
    she cries in the night
    whispers “when will i get my BA?”
    someday……

    we’re all waiting with our lives on hold
    we’re watching and hoping York or CUPE will fold
    we paid our tuition and that’s a lot of cash
    let’s get back to class!

    ohhhhh it isn’t fair
    o-oh! living on a prayer
    start negotiating
    you can settle i swear
    o-oh! living on a prayer

    living on a prayyyyer!!!

  151. piece of the pie

    @RS
    Just a piece of the York pie…the biggest slice possible, since everyone seems to want more than their fair share. lol

  152. Commuter

    @ caitron

    Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Loved the lyrics… even sung it out loud. You should record it haha

    (P.S. That was me who started the trend, but I must say your version is infinitely better. 8) )

  153. caitron

    hahaha shower time is creative time for me. maybe i could be like weird al… funny songs are underrated

  154. Mike Oxbig

    what are the chances of this vote passing?

  155. Commuter

    @ Mike Oxbig

    Depends on who you ask. But I think it’s safe to assume somewhere between 0% – 100%.

    Seriously, no idea.

  156. AndrewB

    Anyone want to venture a guess at how many times this weekend someone asks “what are the odds of the vote passing/fail?”lol

  157. theowne

    I think the question is, if the vote fails, then what are the odds of York basically capitulating to end the strike. I think it’s as bad for York as anyone else to have the strike keep going.

  158. AndrewB

    Either way, it is going to be the question of the weekend. I think we’ll get 50+ asks easily.

  159. someone

    lol AndrewB why ask a question that your going to post an answer to

  160. k - FEd

    i don’t know. i think they might hold out a bit longer if the vote fails. They clearly know the intentions of the Union (for the 2 yr. contract, so that they can be apart of this “multi – university strike”). And really – they can hold out now, and face losing the summer term, or have the threat going through all this turmoil again in another two years…which one seems more appealing?

    (i really don’t know…i won’t be here in two years, so obviously i would want them to go with the latter…but for a lot of first and second year students, that could be the final nail in the coffin that is transferring universities (hhaha…to another one that will possibly strike)

  161. Commuter

    To be honest, I’d rather have a 2010 strike than a 2011 one. I’d be graduating in 3 years.

  162. j

    soooo, what are the odds of the vote pass/failing?

    (ha.. ha… #1)

  163. aaaaaaaaahhh

    yea, what are the odds of the vote pass/failing?

  164. Commuter

    @ AndrewB

    525,600 ti-imes.
    How do you guess
    That the vote will turn out?

  165. Lola

    no seriously you guys what are the chances of the vote going yes or no??

    I MUST KNOW THE FUTURE!

    ooooh we should all pool o bit of money and hire a york strike 2008 psychic!!

    Who’s in?

  166. Commuter

    @ Lola

    Here’s the psychic:
    http://www.psychicnikki.com/

  167. Mike Oxbig

    @ Commuter

    after reading a bit, i have to question Nikki’s credibility…

    she predicted the Leafs would win the cup within 36 months

    but i wouldn’t be surprised

    i made my own prediction that i thought the Leafs would be a contender in 2-3 seasons from now

  168. YorkStudent

    wow there are still some people who are fans of the maple leafs?….ROFLMAO.

  169. Commuter

    Psychic Nikki said “Two planes will collide over JFK Airport in New York”.

    Perhaps she has been watching this season of 24.

  170. Pally Wally

    Mike Oxbig

    3 season = 3 years = 36 months = nikki = realdealafterall?

  171. Mike Oxbig

    @Pally Wally

    perhaps

  172. Yet another yorkie

    Clearly this whole issue is a power struggle…
    York should do what they did in the states in the 70’s or 80’s. I forget the specifics, but basically everyone that was striking was fired. After a few days, they were given the opportunity to reapply for their old jobs. Something like 60% went back to work happily, making less than when they went on strike. I’m just saying…
    This thing’s GOT to come to an end, one way or another.

  173. brutal

    vote no!!!! down with this year

  174. anonymous

    Has anyone dropped their year and starting over next year? or know anyone who has?

  175. Basil El-Salviti

    Hey to the CMWC imposter.

    Please stop. It’s irritating.

  176. A Better York Student

    @YorkStudent

    I KNO LIKE WTF RITE?!?!!?!?!111 HAHAHAH HAUGHHARHAR *^&#(@!% ROFLMFAOOL!!!!!!11111 LIKE OMG F’N JOKESSSsssss

  177. Bobert

    Personally I am a fairly open-minded guy but I don’t quite buy ‘psychic’ Nikki’s ‘predictions’ most of them are variations of the same thing, some seem like things a person who would follow world economics or global foreign policy could pick up on and other seem like flukey guesses. in sum, I think nikki’s reading too many newspapers, and magazines

  178. Tired student

    You know what? York adm is disguting… they could have done something since the beginning .. now they chose the date to next week instead of this week as asked by Cupe just to create this tension of us loosing the academic year.

    Yeah I am mad at cupe but also disgusted of York as a whole.

  179. piece of the pie

    Im not sure if it was solely Yorks decision to have the supervised vote next week since it has to fit the ministry’s schedule as well.

  180. york student

    will the vote pass or fail? do we find out tuesday or wednesday? cause i mite have a stroke and b dead by then

  181. HBK

    Psht.. Psychic Nikki. Hey, I’m psychic too. Seriously. I predict that you’re all going to die! In fact, everybody on this planet is going to die! I just can’t tell you when.
    Anyway, @york student, CMWC (the real one) did say that all three units were most likely going to vote no. But I assure you, if you’re dead by then, then it won’t make a difference.

  182. yorkiee101

    same question as above.
    do you guys think everyones going to vote yess so we go back to school ?

  183. yorkiee101

    k nvm alrede answered.. 😎
    if they vote no, then what?

  184. Commuter

    I think 1-2 (leaning towards 2) of the units will vote yes. I can’t see them all voting no. That’s personal opinion.

    Regardless, I’m preparing to go back whenever it will be.

    I know this doesn’t help much.

    We can’t predict the future.

    Not even Psychic Nikki can.

  185. Bobert

    “I’m not sure if it was solely Yorks decision to have the supervised vote next week since it has to fit the ministry’s schedule as well.”

    … lets not forget the need to give ample time to send out mailings notify each individual member of said vote, and provide them with ample notice for them to make arrangements to go to this vote!

  186. Sho

    should i be studying like crazy?
    what are the chances of stuff being crammed down our throats once school starts

  187. Thomas Malloy

    YUFA reaffirmed its support for the union; and yet the paper doesn’t report that. Instead it reports that a handful of profs, mostly from disciplines that have no interaction with humans in their research are opposed to the strike.

    What is more ridiculous is that when you take the cost of York’s 2 Bay Street Lawyers on retainer for this entire time and add it to the cost of FED-EX’ing all 3400+ members the ballot; you have the funds necessary (or close to it) to make up the difference in what is being demanded.

    We hear talk of an economic downturn – all that means is that York’s investments have taken a huge hit – something that NO ONE in CUPE3903 has anything to do with. At the same time, York’s revenue will continue to grow; increased tuition fees among grads and undergrads, increased enrollments as mandated by the government – tied to increased funds for research the province deems worthy, and increased applications already indicate that people intend to weather the recession at the university.

    The idea that this strike needs or even should come to an end right now is pathetic. York has continued to press (no pun intended) its advantage and has played the pauper quite well. I’m sick of hearing people tell me to take some economics, when there is a rich history of economic theory that supports the strike and the union as a way of creating jobs and increasing social wealth. I’m sick of parents coddling their adult children and treating their education like a product on the shelf. I’m sick of students doing the same, playing the victim – TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOURSELF. You have the syllabii. That’s not a hint as to what to study. Give me a break – we’re losing 1 week off each term. You’re having your year extended – if anything you have EXTRA opportunity to learn. Sucks if you need a summer job, but lots of people have been working during the strike. In case you haven’t noticed – there aren’t a lot of jobs out there to get anyway.

    You’re probably familiar with the slogan “Be Realistic; Demand the Impossible” – it might be better to think of it as “Be Realisitic; Demand Justice” – except for radical conservatives bent on crushing the liberal arts, most people don’t object to the idea of paying PhD instructors that they fork out tons of cash to be taught by a fair wage. Especially when tax dollars subsidize public school teachers whose level of education is generally lower. They aren’t even demanding wage increases. they Just want to know they’ll have a job for more than 8 months.

    Ladies and Gents (and BTQ…etc), don’t bother thinking about “the students” in voting; has the admin thought about them as they wasted nearly 2 months before bargaining? Of course not. They have more incentive to move now than anyone, and don’t believe their cries of poverty.

    Worry about this contract and what it means for graduate school at York in the foreseeable future. Worry about what it will mean for those coming up who are undergraduates now and in years to come.

    York will bounce back – it always has in the past and this is no different. If anything the recession will make that bounce back even faster – hell, tuition fees for undergrads aren’t gonna drop anytime soon.

    The strike needs until York provides a solid offer that addresses the reasons for striking in the first place. If you believe this is that offer – then, by all means vote yes. If not – vote ‘no’. Either way you vote – do it for yourself before you do it for me or for any other undergraduate or ESPECIALLY anyone on Lightman’s list.

  188. CUPE member with child

    Yep, looks like someone was using my name again. Glad to see that some of you noticed the difference.

    Anyways, it was me that posted the notice about the Fed-Ex packages. I received a correction today that there was indeed a bulk rate on the price, so that it cost $6 instead (I don’t know if that’s total or per package, and I have yet to find a means of veryfing this claim). Just letting you know what I’ve been told.

    I have to admit I did like the “bwahahaha-ing” that was done in my name. Lets just all take it as a bit of comedy relief?

  189. Yuggoth

    All I can say is that this has done wonders for me. I’m an English Literature student at Glendon, who, surprisingly, hasn’t received much mention at all that I have witnessed. What I can say is that all the vitriol being spewed by Union members is disgusting and it seems to be tainting the ones who have legitimate demands, yet are willing to compromise to a certain extent and abandon trying to convince people that there is some conspiracy that the University is running to withold ‘rightful’ pay and benefits from Union folk.
    Sides will often be picked and the rhetoric that defines their position is obvious to most: The Union are fighting the faceless ‘Capitalist Pigs’ that are hoarding all the wealth, and the University are playing their cards close to the chest and speaking with a degree of bureaucratic eloquence that continually infuriates the so-called crusaders and gives them a position from which they can claim to expose the lack of frankness from the University’s bargaining strategy as being indicative of just trying to be slippery. Both sides have their tools, it all depends on which side you believe ( I believe).

    I know certain facts and figures have been thrown around as part of lending either side irrefutable evidence for their cause being just but I think we have to face that this is just not possible, there isn’t any evidence that would allow us to see the whole truth, so all we are left is with filling in the gaps the best we can. The problem is, there will always be a doubt (at least in my mind) as to who is right and who is wrong. It’s easy to say that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few and if we look at each student (who signed off on a loan or plopped their money down), as a voter who was expecting an ideally uninterrupted year, then it’s fair to say that if the hopes and dreams (and money) of the students and their parents paid for the year, then they should have a say in it. That being said, I also don’t believe there was a discalimer saying “Cheques will not be honour” or “This school year can be hijacked at anytime”. One must feel that instead of buying a ticket on the Queen Elizabeth, they bought a one way on Blackbeard’s pirate ship.

    Disclaimers aside, CUPE members do have a right, given to them by the government body, that was voted in (not by me I have yet to vote and I’m over 30) to look out for them selves as CUPE Member…et al have voiced. There’s something MORALLY wrong with just ‘looking out for yourself’ but we can’t help but seeing that everywhere we look. If you look at yourself and your life, everything you have is always at the expense of someone else, so it’s easy to say “well I’m hurting right now” so I’m picking the side that will ease the pain quicker. Processes are always painful; that’s the machine you’re a part of ladies and gents and will continue to be a part of until that final income tax return is filed. There will always be people who exploit their sphere or system of what-have-you and others will try to be noble according to some other moral code (the ones at the suffering end of the stick tend to be the humanists– unfortunately more because it’s convenient at the time) because that’s how they sleep well at night, telling themselves “I did all right by me today” whether or not it is categorically true. Just some thoughts… Whaddayathink?

  190. Soraya

    @ Commuter

    Say 1 or 2 of the units do vote yes, would we actually go back?

  191. tester

    CUPE member with child

    Of course there was a bulk rate for sending out packages. I used to work in a small company, and we got bulk rates for our daily items, because we had daily shipments.

    YorkU is a big institution…I can only imagine how much FedEx is sent daily.

    Only a moron would think, and post that a this package cost $40 to send out….and that moron is your CUPE Chair, Christina Rousseau.

    Anyway, was the correction well circulated?

  192. tester

    please ignore my above typo….if only i had someone to mark my writing.

  193. ram

    @ CMWC
    hello cmwc!
    Did you ever get a chance to meet with other colleagues or other Unit 2 members? What do other members feel? To be honest i agree that university could have brought about some thing else instead of forced ratification. There is this presumption( may be because of 2001 strike) that unit 2 would easily fall for the offer and vote YES. But i just want to know from you, how strong the members(at least those who you have talked to) are this time.. thanks in advance

  194. Ridiculous

    CUPErs can we just address the elephant in the room here which is at the end of the day all you want is a two year deal so that you can do this all over again. That’s it. That’s what it comes down to. Not for ‘future grad students’ or ‘future faculty’ or for the children, dear god we must save the children!

    The sticking point is the 2 year deal vs. 3 year deal. And that alone is more than enough reason not to support you and be utterly disgusted with what you have all done to this academic year.

  195. CUPE member with child

    hi ram,

    It’s really difficult to tell. The answers I’ve been given from asking the same questions as you to every union member I come accross is that unit 2 is a lot more active in this strike than in 2000/2001. Unit 2 job security does seem to be a much higher priority this time around, and what the university is offering now is much lower than what was offered before – so it’s very much a concession if unit 2 accepts the current offer.

    I’m optimistic that all 3 units will reject the offer at forced rat. Other than a few people that I’ve seen actively attempting to undermine both the union and their own interests (in so far as I see the strike playing out), everywhere I go I hear a resounding ‘no’ to the current offer. But we’ll have to wait until Tuesday night to find out for sure.

  196. theowne

    @Yuggoth

    Yes, everyone has a right to look out for themselves. But I think the highest paid TAs going on strike during an economic downturn is a bit of a stretch.

  197. CUPE member with child

    @Rediculous,

    I’ll address this so-called ‘elephant in the room’ (a 2 year deal). Every union member that I’ve talked to about this issue, and I myself feel that a good 3 year contract is more essential than a bad 2 year contract. While our bargaining team has been negotiating within the context of a 2 year deal (as opposed to the university that has been negotiating in terms of a 3 year deal), I don’t see the general membership holding off on accepting a fair 3 year deal just to ‘line up’ in 2 more years.

    I’ve heard a lot of people outside the union and administration saying that the length of the contract is the deal-buster and all that matters according to the union. Sometimes I think this is propagated by people who honestly don’t know the details of the offers/demands and are simply reproducing the falsity. In some other cases I think this idea is maliciously spread by some who want to try and undermine the union’s position by demonstrating it to be ‘radically’ and solely interested in some mass-revolution in 2 years time.

    I think there are several merrits to a 2 year contract though. First, there’s currently a tuition freeze (mandated by the province) that will expire in 2 years. A 2 year contract will thus position the union to then negotiate a contract so as not to have any gains currently negotiated to be undermined by tuition hikes in the 3rd year of a 3 year contract. Second, I think that there is a general tendency of declining accessibility of both graduate and undergraduate education in Ontario (as well as Canada). If, as some hope, co-ordinated bargaining could bring the province to the table in 2 years time then we might well see some signifigant improvements in educational funding for all – perhaps the restoration of a system of grants rather than loans, reinstating tenure positions rather than the overall decrease in proportion of tenure in favour of more unsecure contract positions (the trend of ‘contracting-out’), and maybe a reinstitution of affordable tuition rates. I was an undergrad when tuition rates went from being around $2000 per year to jumping up to around $4500 (and climbing) per year.

  198. Andrew

    Throughout this strike, I’ve noticed that most people describe their interactions with others as “Everyone I’ve spoken to agrees with me that … [whatever is under discussion]”. This is true of statements both for and against the strike.

    Generally, I think statements like these are more reflective of how we socialize than any kind of barometer of public opinion.

  199. CUPE member with child

    Andrew,

    I agree completely – but unfortunately I have no other litmus test to measure these questions against.

  200. Andrew

    I wasn’t criticizing. Just saying, y’know.

  201. anonymous

    does anyone know if me dropping this year and starting my third year next year will affect a law school application in any way?

  202. CUPE member with child

    It’s ok, I didn’t take it as criticism.

    As far as the ‘circles’ that I’ve socialized in go, they are pretty much my deparmental email list, the general striking email list, the people I talk to on the picket lines, people I talk to at the GMMs, the motions and votes and information given at the GMMs, and the few other encounters I have with fellow union members. This certainly does leave out a lot of people and by no means can I ascertain (spelling?) with any certainly how everyone’s leaning.

    Just like ram, though, I’m extremely interested in finding out as much as I can about how everyone in the union is thinking. When I talk to people from other picket lines or other departments one of my fist question is always, “what do the people you’re talking with say about what’s going on? etc etc.”

    By no means fool proof, but it’s the best I can do…

  203. CUPE member with child

    @anonymous,

    I’m not sure if it’s worth me replying and you reading that I have no idea on the answer to your question… but I thought I’d offer it anyways so that you’d know somebody hears your question. I suppose I’m just in a chatty mood.

  204. anonymous

    lmao…i figure it wont affect my application in any way in terms of hurting my chances i was just curious

  205. CUPE member with child

    Yorkstrike,

    the front page is a few days stale. Any chance you can post a new header – maybe just a quick “The last weekend before forced ratificaition!!!”. And can you post some music to go along with the header? I recommend Darth Vader’s theme from the Empire Strikes back. It’s a classic chune!!!

  206. Bobert

    CUPE member with child

    “First, there’s currently a tuition freeze (mandated by the province) that will expire in 2 years”

    WRONG, the only tuition freeze mandated province ended in 2005, and shortly after was replaced with a system of annually capped tuition fee increases

    I’ll refer you to this Ylife release dated July 2006

    “The Board of Governors of York University has approved a three-year tuition fee schedule to commence in the 2006-2007 academic year.

    Tuition fees for most undergraduate students who are entering programs at York will increase by 4.5 per cent for 2006-2007, which is $188 more than the 2005-2006 rates. Fees for students who are continuing in their programs will increase by four per cent, or $167.

    The annual increases of 4.5 per cent for entering students and four per cent for continuing students will also apply in most undergraduate programs in the subsequent 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 academic years.

    The new tuition fee schedule conforms to the Ontario government’s framework for tuition fees at Ontario universities, which restricts annual tuition fee increases for arts, science and most other undergraduate programs to 4.5 per cent for first-year students and four per cent for those in their second, third, or fourth year and beyond.

    Fees for undergraduate students in professional programs entering their first year in engineering, business, computer science and law will rise by eight per cent, an increase of $335 in the 2006-2007 academic year. The increase for students beyond their entering year in these programs will be limited to four per cent, or $167.

    The government’s framework allows increases of up to eight per cent for students entering graduate programs. In 2005, York’s Board of Governors froze tuition for domestic students in non-professional graduate programs and this freeze will remain in place through the 2007-2008 academic year. Increases in fees at the graduate level will apply for most professional programs.

    The tuition increases are approved to take effect May 1 of each year. Implementation of the fee increase for 2006-2007 has been deferred to Sept. 1, 2006, with the exception of the Executive MBA Program, offered through the Schulich School of Business.

    The Ontario government’s new framework for tuition caps the annual increased revenue from tuition fee increases at five per cent per year overall. Universities are required to sign accountability agreements with the Ministry of Training, Colleges & Universities, tying the tuition increases to quality improvements and student access.

    The additional revenues from fees will enable York to continue to enhance the student experience through investments in faculty complement and improvements to classrooms. A significant portion of the revenue from the fee increases will also be directed toward student financial aid. In 2005-2006, York awarded $49.5 million in student financial assistance. Over the next three years, more than $8 million will be added to this annual commitment. York will also continue the practice of supporting its students through part-time employment at the University. More than $57 million in wages and earnings was paid to students registered at York during fiscal 2005-2006.”

  207. brutal

    VOTE nO!!!

  208. HWIHTS

    This strike has lasted pretty much as long as one semester of classes(3 months = classes from Sept-Nov and exams in Dec).

    Anyway, I think that we are going back to classes on the 26th. Why? Because of the length of the strike. If the vote fails, york will probably cave and give CUPE what they wanted, that 2 yr contract. Therefore, we go back to classes probably mid Feb. (Mid Feb the latest, Jan 26 the earliest).

    Also, IF YORK CANCELS ANYTHING, IT WILL BE THE SUMMER SEMESTER. This school year will not be canceled, even if it means going to school until June. York will not cancel the school year because of its sweet sweet reputation.

    I haven’t picked up a book ever since the strike started, I need to slap myself and start reading, at least my lecture notes because I’ve been slacking…even before the strike.

    Anywhoo, good luck!

  209. Pally Wally

    Yuggoth,

    You hit the nail on the head. Everyone is playing the game “think about ME” and this situation has caused us to lose sight of the bigger picture. Students – ALL OF US – and faculty are here because we care deeply about the process of education – it’s shameful that undergrads are being put out the way they are, but so to is it shameful that grad students are being treated in this way; that our teachers are being treated in this way. I think we can look beyond the “black and white” economic picture that has been handed to us and be critical of what we’re being told.
    That doesn’t mean throw it away – but it definitely means that what some people view as reasonable and possible needs to be ‘stretched’ as much or even more than some people might need to ‘be realistic’.

    If there are 700 billion dollars around in hand-outs for people who were supposed to know what they were doing but didn’t, then surely there is some incentive in investing in creating a highly skilled and educated workforce that isn’t encumbered by debt.

    The big picture has to be something beyond the immediate financial situation. Ok, this strike was badly timed – but that doesn’t mean that university teachers are worthless, or their concerns are invalid. Something that should be obvious to even the most casual observer is that you cannot simply ‘fire everyone’ as if this were a group of non-skilled employees. They are among the highest trained and skilled people we have – and they are responsible for training the next generation of workers across a wide swath of sectors. As Yuggoth pointed out, most people go into academics because they want to avoid doing great harm – not to inflict it on undergrads for kicks; and certainly not because they don’t value education, or are after the biggest return on investment. That should be kept in mind.

    In a perfect world there would be no war, no violence and no unions – well, there wouldn’t be a lot of things, and we could just sit down and talk things out rationally, but we happen to live in a world where war, violence and unions do exist – and until that better world comes to be, we need to be pragmatic. Part of that is realizing that if economists couldn’t predict the mess we’re in – why on earth would we start listening to them now? Who deserves more blame, the economists and bankers, or the university instructors? It doesn’t make sense why one has to take a huge hit because of the other’s failures.

    Governments and people that advocate that we take away citizens’ rights to defend themselves, whether through weapons control, union-busting, poorly funding education, or civil liberties violations are ones that are to be feared.
    We need to think less about ourselves – but that doesn’t mean prioritizing whose rights are respected (ie. putting the undergrads first) it means doing what is best in the long run for everyone. I think in the long run, we need to ensure that graduate school is within reach for those that merit it; and that graduate education in the liberal arts is guarded in a way that research doesn’t need to ‘prove’ its marketability in order to be funded – and these are things I fear are being seriously threatened.
    I know that a lot of people who ‘paid for’ an education (in dollars) might think differently, and that is fine – I don’t expect them to understand – but I think there ought to be at least one place where education isn’t measured by lectures hours and dollar signs. Feel free to disagree with me, but I really [edited by moderator]

  210. Teju

    okay peoples I international student at york stuck here and bored! Basically you guys should calms yourself down and wait for thee vote and start off from there okay?

  211. Teju

    @ HWIHTS
    nice clear answer
    everybody just read her and go do reading 😛

  212. That's Amore

    Did somebody say pizza?

    Mmmmmmm…. PIZZA!!!!

  213. B

    It’s only applicants, the real answer will come when enrollment numbers come around but…

    http://www.parentcentral.ca/parent/article/572748

    It seems their picking Ryerson as a first choice over York. Ryerson :S

  214. fenn

    York faculty association vows to support strikers

    Staff

    January 17, 2009 Globe and Mail

    Toronto — The York University Faculty Association continues to
    support its striking co-workers, president Arthur Hilliker said in a
    statement yesterday.

    YUFA, representing full-time professors, who aren’t included in the
    strike, voted in a meeting this week to stand behind striking CUPE
    Local 3903.

    YUFA pledged its “support of free collective bargaining and does not
    endorse a ratification vote,” scheduled for Monday and Tuesday,
    because it was “forced” by the university. Its statement also said
    the association “does not endorse any YUFA member attempting to
    influence” votes.

    It came on the heels of an open letter earlier this week, which 282
    current and retired York faculty signed. Those professors urged CUPE
    members to accept the current deal.

  215. Yuggoth

    One needs to look at the Socratic method of instruction in order to see just how different the meaning of education has changed throughout the years. Back then the instructor was the source and the student struggled to honour and remove themselves from their shadow. Now it seems that the roles are reversed. It’s not that it’s a bad thing, but it seems that what has been forgotten is the organic osmosis by which knowledge is transferred. The vessel is only as full as the source is OVERflowing; that is, nothing is not born of nothing–things flow from an area of high concentration to low concentration. The truly imaginative seem to be the only ones exempt from certain laws of physics, but therein lies the problem for anyone not willing to look past what’s in front of them. Einstein once said:
    “We can’t solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.”

  216. Cupe Doll

    @Miss Dee: “Saturday Star.. York applications are down.”

    Yes. So far, about 15% for next year. Those fewer 15% making York their first choice seem to be making UofT and Ryerson their first choice.

    Which comes back to what I’ve said all along. Due to 3903’s impossible demands I will not have a job next year. And I know *many* other unit2 contract faculty in the same sinking boat.

    No point crying. Damage already done. Now’s the time to laugh one’s head off at my loco local.

    “We only destroy the education students paid for because we don’t want students paying for education”

    “We only make our most vulnerable contract faculty into labour casualties because we are against labour casualization”

  217. Tyler Shipley

    The strike will end once I lose my virginity.

  218. urizen2000

    I was Yuggoth, now I’m Urizen2000

  219. B

    As stated before; Real test comes around enrollment numbers. York may be down as first choice, but we’ll see around enrollment numbers.

    But, hey, 3903 did want smaller class sizes.

  220. Cupe Doll

    @B: “.. Real test comes around enrollment numbers.”

    I might have it wrong but as I understand now, first choice is down 15% and overall enrollment down 10%.

  221. That's Amore

    Tyler, wanna fuck?

    LOL!!!

  222. B

    Where are you getting “overall enrollment down 10%”

    Overall applicants is down 10%.

    Enrollment numbers won’t be around till fall.

  223. Cupe Doll

    @B

    My bad. Overall applications down 10% and first choice down 15%. Quite right — we won’t know enrollment until students enroll.

    But I don’t expect huge enrollment from students that didn’t apply 🙂

  224. The one thing that York has going for it is that it is the only school in Toronto that eagerly accepts students after one year of college. The application deadline for college transfers is different than the deadline for high school, so it is highly possible that Y0rk’s overall enrollment will not change much. So, if you know anyone in college, pass on the word. It’ll probably be VERY easy for them o get into York this time around.

    In my opinion, I think that parents who do not want their kids to go to York are crazy. It is within the realm of possibility that York will be one of the few schools in Ontario that are not apart of he massive 2010 strike that is bound to last for a very long time.

  225. B

    Much of this is just initial reaction/panic to the current strike. When the dust settles, we’ll see. Enrollments didn’t take a massive hit after 2000/01, York now has, what, 6000 more students then it did in 2000/01? That strike was also in the seem period as this one, ie. around application deadlines for High School kids.

  226. Cupe Doll

    Either you 2 are missing the point or avoiding it intentionally. It doesn’t matter how sizeable or awesome York is. The point is whether there’s a change in York size or awesomeness. Because any such change for less or worse will mean contract faculty like me get scrapped.

    Will the strike produce negative size and/or awesomeness changes? Strike supporters denied it, of course. No 3903 will ever say, “Yeah, of course it will — so what if it not *only* harms students but also makes labour casualties of our own most vulnerable membership?”

    Doesn’t matter how many 3903s feel that way. What they’ll say is stuff like, “We don’t know yet — hell, this strike might make enrollment go up.” Or, “The 2000/01 strike didn’t harm enrollment — why should this one?” Or, “York is so awesome — nobody will really mind.”

    Well, that’s all pretty ridiculous, isn’t it? Looking forward to having 3 years academically ruined every 10 — more than 1 year in 4 — will make more students come to York? And, even if 2000/2001 didn’t have much effect — don’t know — it could be perceived as an insane anomaly. Not any more. As for anyone not really minding — yeah. Right.

    But there was no quantitative evidence. So, ridiculous as such equivocations might have been — they were not demonstrably wrong. Well, now there’s quantitative evidence there’s a negative impact. Our 3903 strike is hurting (not only) 3903s irretrievably.

  227. Pally Wally

    I guess the problem I see is that applications go down for York, even though the strike will be over by the fall – I can pretty much guarantee that; and if there is a 3 year contract involved – then the universities people are putting as first choices instead are ones that are poised to strike in 2010 – not York.
    Out of the frying pan and into the fryer – it would seem.

  228. aguyuno

    People don’t think of the future though, Pally. No one ever does. People just see that york is going on strike and go LOLOLOL GO 2 UOFT THEN, forgetting it’ll probably have a bigger and much harsher one come 2010.

    That said, york will likely be on strike in 2010 too, though. So it’s not much better.

    Me? I’m just going to head to college instead. Fuck all universities, honestly.

  229. B

    aguyuno – colleges are plagued with the same problems. And they’ve canceled semesters in the past because of strikes.

  230. Pally Wally

    They say college is the new grad school. I can’t say I haven’t seriously considered it numerous times.

  231. piece of the pie

    strikes are not exclusive to universities. Colleges often have strikes as well. They are even under one union so they all go on strike simultaneously when it happens.

  232. AndrewB

    I went to college to start school, and I’l say, if you people want small class sizes, go to college. My largest class was I beliebe 75-90 people and that was ONE class (anthropology) in 2 years being there. I took a year of Business and a year of General Arts and every class was basically 30 people or less. I simply got myself moved from the 75-90 people section into the smaller 20 people section.

    After going through University now, college would be a breeze studying wise, but since you should “mature” as a student and person, you’ll learn a great deal.

  233. Pally Wally

    Well, if I were to do any schooling outside of University it would be in a skilled trade; if that happened to take me to a college so be it. I don’t get taking arts at college – R.I.P. OAC, I suppose.

  234. AndrewB

    General Arts in college is usless, unless you are using it to get into University and an arts program. I was in business, hated it, told my counselors I wanted to be a writer/journalism, so I moved to General Arts as that program is seen as a University prep type course.

  235. arts, write/journalism, humanities, and social sciences are all bullshit courses. And they are easy, even a trained monkey can do them. Something like biology, astronomy, engineering, and mathematics are challenging to one’s intelligence. All others are easy courses and people major in them and think they are smart.

  236. bab

    @laaadeeedaaa
    ur so right !

  237. B

    laaadeeedaaa, bab – immature bullshit.

  238. Pingback: Important: Minutes From the Registrar’s Info Session « York Strike …

  239. aguyuno

    I know colleges still go on strike. However, they’re also shorter (2 years minimum versus a 4 year minimum, assuming you don’t do extra shit like summer terms and what not), generally a better experience from the commentary I’ve heard from people who’ve completed college vs people who compared university, and you also tend to be more likely to get a job, since colleges tend to be more specified (trades and what not).

    Of course, if you go to College for English, versus University for English, that’s a bad call… but yeah. You know what I mean xD

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