Unit 2 (contract faculty) says no to forced ratification

Unit 2 of CUPE 3903 that represents contract faculty (post doctorate faculty) is urging its members to vote NO to the proposed package slated for a Supervised Membership Vote. They are arguing that the University’s proposal does not address the changes the University is making in terms of shifting work from Unit 2 faculty to Unit 1, or from post doctorate faculty to Ma. and Ph.D students. Furthermore, there is conflict between CUPE’s proposal of  the SRC (Special Renewable Contract) programme which appoints all high intensity Unit 2 members into YUFA (tenured positions), and the University’s proposed TSA (Teaching Stream Appointment Positions) that would reduce the number of YUFA conversions significantly.

This is obviously the opinion of the executive, or atleast the top end of Unit 2, and as such it would be premature to speculate on the general sentiment towards the proposed contract that is moving forward to a forced ratification vote. Nevertheless, these are the main issues that Unit 2 members have with the contract offered by the administration.


Here is the release from Unit 2 of CUPE 3903 (click here) and the new Unit 2 website is available (click here).

In solidarity with undergraduate students,


As always, I stand to be corrected on any information or commentary I have made.



Filed under Uncategorized

209 responses to “Unit 2 (contract faculty) says no to forced ratification

  1. Mike Oxbig

    so what does this mean?

    which unit had the largest impact in determining whether or not we return to school?

    was it 3?

  2. aaaaaaaaahhh

    god i just hope this strike ends soooon!

  3. Drop-out Boogie


    so while we wait in agony,
    come on down to the chelsea room Jan 31st!
    Old style ska n Gospel style rock n’ roll!!
    only $5, starts @ 10

    (923 Dundas West)

  4. D

    It means nothing. Just the heads trying to persuade its member to fight the ratification and vote no.

  5. aaaaaaaaahhh

    i hope your right ‘D’
    Unfortunately we have to wait to find out

  6. Tired student

    Here is some info that my prof sent to me this morning (he is a member of the unit 2)

    “One more (perhaps the last?) update on the strike situation. I won’t even try to address the frustration you must be feeling right now–i’ll just give you the update of where things are at (with some of my editorial commentary).
    As you may have heard by now, the strike is definitely going to continue for another week, as the administration has asked for a forced ratification vote. It’s incredibly frustrating, as we had been talking over the past week, and
    things seemed (finally) to be heading in a positive direction. I suspect, though, that this was part of their plan to put themselves in the position of
    calling for this vote. Given their unwillingness to bargain at all over thelast couple of months, it certainly seems like their strategy has been to wait
    us out and try for a forced vote (as I mentioned in an earlier email, this law is one that can extend strikes if the employer uses it to circumvent
    bargaining, even though York presents it as a way of shortening the strike).
    The offer that they have on the table for the vote is concessionary–that is, it’s worse than what our last contract was in some important ways. For
    example, one area that affects me directly: for ‘conversions’ appointments that let contract faculty become regular faculty, we had 7, 7, and 6 appointments over the last 3 years–their offer now is for only 2, 2, and 1 over the next 3, a cut of 75%. So now, rather than bargaining, we have to wait a week for the vote to be set up (that’s how long it takes for the ministry of labour to put
    it together). I really have no idea how the votes will go. My hope is that we turn down
    the offer and finish the bargaining process, but it’s tough to say what people
    will do. Like you, we’re tired and frustrated. I would strongly bet, though,
    that if we reject the offer, things will go fairly quickly and the strike will
    end not much after the vote–they’ve decided not to bargain for two months to
    try to do this forced vote, but if they lose, they’ll be forced to actually
    bargain. So, you’ve certainly got a week or two to take a holiday if you want,
    but i’m pretty sure we’ll be back in roughly that time frame. In the meantime,
    I’ve pasted in a short piece that David McNally, a Poli Sci prof that I’m sure
    many of you know, wrote during the last strike in 2000 when York pursued the
    same strategy. It gives you a bit of a sense of the context of the forced rat
    vote. What happened in 2000-1 is that two of the three units in our union
    rejected their offer, and we went back to the bargaining table and got a deal
    in the next two days. I’m really looking forward to being back in the classroom–and not just because it’s way warmer than the picket lines! Take
    care, and see you all soon”

  7. Should have gone to Queens

    So i was just wondering if someone could clear up the issues for me. I have been trying to keep up with this blog, but admittedly some of the things are going over my head.

    First of all, has a date been set yet for the ‘supervised vote’? Or are they still waiting on the government to schedule one?

    Secondly, at the end of the day is what is keeping a settlement from being reached is this whole 2yr vs. 3yr contract issue? where the Union wants 2 yrs so that they can have the option to strike again in 2010?

    Thirdly, I just want some clarification on what this vote actually means. I think my understanding is that up until now the executives of CUPE have been the ones to vote (and subsequently pass or reject) on the offers set forth by the University. This forced vote will allow every member of CUPE (in attendance…right?) to vote on the settlement offer – yet CUPE is urging to vote no on forced ratification, knowing that a failed vote means that York will most likely come back with a much better offer.

    Lastly, is there any point in speculating as to what will happen for us undergrad students after classes resume. Like as far as continuation of the fall term, and going into the spring/summer term. I’m in the faculty of ed (consecutive program) so i know i am affected a little differently, but still, I think the not knowing is what is frustrating me the most.

    ANYWAY! sorry, I know this is all redundant, but I am new to York this year. I have already completed a hassle free undergrad at another university, so this kind of turmoil is new to me.

  8. Mike Oxbig

    someone tried comparing this to the nhl lockout a few days ago…

    well in the lockout, i remember the league offering a worse deal as time went on…and thats why the strike went on so long…

  9. Observerd

    It really shows where York is going with this forced rat.

    All of the TAs I talked to today (all science) plan to vote “NO” as well.

  10. aguyuno

    You know what’s different between this and the nhl lockout?

    People who bought their tickets in advance weren’t later assured “Don’t worry, we’ll just let you watch a one period game for the same amount of money you paid with disgruntled players on the ice who will spend most of their time bitching about their rights and not actually playing. It’s the same thing, honest!’. No, they were refunded.

    Hell of a concept, really.

    Don’t get me wrong. I want to go back to school. But this isn’t even a situation of whoever did that comparing apples and oranges – that’s comparing elephants with mice.

  11. ss

    I’m going on strike screw this.

  12. theowne


    I don’t condone violence, but I certainly wouldn’t be opposed to some anti-picket demonstrating. Anyone else interested?

  13. theowne

    That’s what I thought =/

  14. MR Two

    Why would I waste my time picketing against CUPE? From the way it looks, we have at least 1-2 weeks before we go back. Do what I’m doing, make the best of the situation, and get extra work hours if you can. I’m buying myself a new car this spring with the extra $$ I’ve saved up working fulltime over the strike so I can take one of my other cars off the road, strip it down and track it.

  15. Java

    What the hell is WRONG with York?

    They are putting the CUPE in a strongr position every time they announce someting.

  16. sam

    Any point in heading back to rez Sun Jan. 18 ??
    Just gave notice at p/t work ( I am thankful they took me back over this crappy strike). I want to get back into the feel of rez life, read more, study more, hit the library, or is it closed???????
    And to whom do I address my request for 2 months refund on rez, meal plan etc…McQuinty didn’t respond at all, nor did my MPP..so screwed we Yorkies………I have no respect for york, tas or profs…just finish this year and get the hell out….this undergrad has had it..community college here I come…least they aren’t discussing strikes in 2010…I will do university somewhere else….once I have saved the 14.000.dollars it has cost me for year 1.

  17. Undergrad@York

    Is anyone else planning on asking for some sort of refund on residence and meal plan? Because if many people are interested in requesting that we get some sort of compensation for our wasted time, then we should all do it together. Personally, I don’t think there is anything anyone can do for us while the strike is going, but I am definitely going to the rezlife people once this is over. Especially since everyone at home that knows my school is on strike has told me off for not complaining more about it to York. Honestly though, I see no point in whining about our losses just yet.. wait until it’s over, then we make our demands. We paid for a complete year, and we deserve to be compensated for this waste of 2 months.

  18. B

    When the semester resumes and the year extends into end of May, how exactly do most of you intend to stay in rez, meal plans, etc if you want refunds for the past two months? Things will get extended, York is not writing off the past two months of missed class time and exams all together.

  19. k

    if residence remains to the residents, and food services are still operating during the strike, then they are not going to refund any money to those students who chose to go back home during the strike. In the same context I can argue that I have had to pay for 2 months rent and living expenses but that obviously won’t fly.

    I suppose this is a bit lazy thinking, but I am not going to complain or demand compensation for the lost two months of school so long as i get my full credits and degree at the end of the year. That is essentially what I am paying for – a piece of paper that says i am certified/qualified (even if it isn’t true).

  20. fracas

    @sam re: ‘community college here i come…’

    both f/t and p/t college instructors will be in a bargaining position this summer. the contract for f/t faculty expires in august, while p/t faculty just won the right to unionize and will become another bargaining unit in the same union as f/t college faculty.

    most observers assume that this round of bargaining will be difficult, not only because of the provincial reductions in post-secondary funding, but also because the union will be bargaining first contract for part-time instructors, usually a tough process. there is certainly a sense in the colleges that a strike this year is very possible. unlike in the university sector, all colleges bargain together as one group – if there is a strike mandate, it will affect all colleges in Ontario.

  21. Confused and Exasperated

    @sam Dunno why you are getting angry @k york won’t refund you if you still could have stayed in rez, you signed the contract and everything. I mean it obviously sucks and is way less than the optimal situation but York probably won’t do shit for you. They’ll extend the rez agreement ’til the end of school though, I’m pretty sure of that.

  22. Gabby

    @ K

    I agree with you on tuition fees and food because yes we are getting our degrees and that is more what you are paying for.. but I do agree with Sam that York should compensate for the extra rez fees that now must be paid due to the strike.. now having said that I also don’t think York would do anything about it in terms of compensation. Frustrating? very.. but that’s life and that’s York.

    I would suggest getting out of the school and going somewhere else. That’s what I’m doing and I have had nothing but bad experiences with York.. but that’s also personal opinion

  23. SH

    York has said several times: NO REFUND. They will charge us interest if we do not pay them before deadline too. Such a logic. I’m done with York.

  24. j


    They changed the Jan. 10th deadline. We will not have to pay for winter semester until it commences.

  25. B

    Sam – you might want to brush up on a few things there. The senate has already made announcements about extending the school year. Fall will have 13 extra days of instruction and 12 days of exams. Winter term will have one less week. Factoring it all together and the likelihood that we won’t be back in classes till end of January, puts us in school till very near the end of May.

    Additionally, to add to the comments about opting for community college. That situation is no better. In fact, while no University has had to cancel a semester because of a strike, Colleges have.

    Gabby – where is this announcement about York requiring extra rez fees because of the strike? Because, that is all hearsay.

  26. B

    @SH – York sent out an email already clarifying nothing is due till winter semester, no interest will be charged.

    I suggest you stop listening to what the YFS is telling students with their laughable Don’t Pay A Cent campaign.

  27. ram

    Actually the semester in danger is the summer. If we go till may end with the winter semester, I seriously doubt whether we will go to summer school.

  28. F-Ed Up

    Should have gone to Queens:

    “Lastly, is there any point in speculating as to what will happen for us undergrad students after classes resume. Like as far as continuation of the fall term, and going into the spring/summer term. I’m in the faculty of ed (consecutive program) so i know i am affected a little differently, but still, I think the not knowing is what is frustrating me the most.”

    The consec. Ed program has continually replied with a “we’ll have to see what will happen when we know exactly when the strike will end.” So no, not much point in speculating for us, except of course that it gives us something to do.

    I don’t know which division you’re in, but I’m in I/S and last I heard they are looking into arranging a prac block for after the strike which would allow us an evaluation prior to the final prac block scheduled for May. This would allow us to submit an evaluation with our job applications, rather than the humourous little letter we were sent as a temporary supplement. It doesn’t seem realistic to me because it would likely be a logistical nightmare, but that’s about all I’ve heard from the Faculty of Ed regarding arrangements which they might possibly make post-strike. As far as term extension, we’re already scheduled to the end of May (which I believe would be the beginning of a “Spring” term – though I’m not sure if they have two terms during the summer months at York) so I’m guessing that there is the possibility that, if our year is extended, we may be going to school until sometime in June.

  29. facuork

    Opposite is what I see and hear. At a casual meeting with several faculty members yesterday downtown, several members mentioned the possibility of cancellation of the Fall term. Most of them support it too.

  30. whatsgoing on

    I just want to know whats going to happen to our fall/winter semesters? it says on the blog that theres no way we will lose our year..is this true? and if it is, when we get back does that mean school will extend into the summer? if it does that is totally unfair- I have a full time job that i need to work for many reasons…the university better find a way to give us our regular summer still or else lots of people are gonna be ticked

  31. FuriousStudent

    This is something that my prof. just e-mailed to me:

    You probably know the employer has called for a forced ratification vote supervised by the Min. of Labour. This will happen probably sometime next week–it will take a couple of days. I doubt the forced ratification will work–the fact that it’s forced will lead most CUPE 3903 members to reject it out of hand. I have been paying attention to the various “passes” on the deal between the employer and the union, and
    I can tell you unequivocally–please share with your friends–that the current deal is a claw-back on the previous contract. I doubt very much
    that CUPE will accept it.

    And there you have it.

  32. whatsgoing on

    and if school gets extended to end of may, is that regular classes or exams? this is such bs…T/a’s are the greediest people on the planet right now…they know it too but they are just denying it to everyone and especially themselves..i wonder how dumb they feel picketin in the freezin cold waiting for york to bend over for them and knowing that they are losing alot of money right now…they must be really “living below the poverty line right now”…or wait they got second jobs maybe? thats right, they could have done that before…bunch of futards…cant wait till we go back to school so i can ask the TA’s how they got soo stupid…if they fail anyone this year they got a lot of nerve

  33. B

    I’ve yet to receive a single email from any prof at York addressing this situation. Nor have I talked to anyone at York that has.

    This whole ‘I just got an email from a Prof stuff’ is looking more and more like bullshit.

  34. York Student

    i don’t think this forced ratification vote is going to work out for york. i got a feeling we’re going to be sitting home for quite a while.

  35. AndrewB

    @ theowne

    About your protesting CUPE. See back in December when people were telling us students to protest and fight for our education, everyone was up and ready to start something, and do a “back to school” thing on Jan 5th. Problem is, students don’t matter in this. The Yorknothostage group is 4000+ strong and yet when they called on an end of the strike and for a deadline to be put in place, both York and CUPE said “I don’t think they know what is going on, we can’t put a deadline.” and basically pushed them to the side.

    Protesting CUPE won’t get them to go fast. They are already hated beyond anything we have seen in awhile, and every major news media in Canada has been negatives towards them within the last month. So if they still don’t care what Macleans or The Globe and Mail, nation and world wide media giants have to say about them, I’m fairly sure they don’t give a damn about what a few protesting students have to say.

    It’s sad, but it is true.

  36. whatsgoing on

    when is classes going to end? and then exams start? that is the bullshate they need to solve

  37. Gabby

    @ B

    Sorry they may not be requiring extra Rez fees, i just mean if students are paying for extra months during the summer because the term has been expanded.. it is possible they wont charge for those months but I don’t know

  38. AndrewB

    They can’t solve it if they don’t have a start back date.

  39. whatsgoing on

    yea but even without a startback date, dont they already have predecided that they cant extend the year? they will ruin peoples summer jobs (which TONS of people need in order to pay tuititon) and they will ruin peopls chances of summer courses (ruining peoples graduating goals)…they need to sort that out from NOW regardless when we go back, as that is whats troubling so many students…it should end at the exact same time as normal, just cut down the winter semester accordingly- after all we pay for the credits, not the course material

  40. confused

    when is the rat vote?

  41. @B

    Obviously my word should not mean anything to you, but I can attest that all ‘e-mail from profs’ are bullshit. I have recieved e-mails from two professors; one of them is Dennis Raphael. CUPE3903 members have been instructed not to correspond via e-mail with students, which is why I am not going to name my other professor, and is why you may not have gotten anything.

    With that said, simply ending a post with ’cause a prof told me so’ is a pretty easy thing to do. As with anything read on this board, it could all be bullshit. But on a side note,

    I think a lot of the false information is actually a result of broken telephone. A professor speculates. Student hears specuation and assumes it is 100% confirmed fact. Student posts ‘confirmed fact’ here, everyone goes crazy. I do think feel that I am speaking out of line in stating that just because you are a Prof at York, does not mean that you know everything about the strike. You may know more than us, but that does not say much.

  42. The York senate did NOT say that the fall semester would be 13 days. It said that the fall semester would continute for a MAX of 13 days. I do not remember the exact number of weeks the year was to be, but I am fairly certain that I recall reading a max of 11 weeks, but I could be wrong on that one.

    From my understanding, the plan is to finish up in the last week of April, exams during the first 2 weeks of May, and than we are done. I am graduated, good bye York, hello Western Law.

  43. AndrewB

    @ whatsgoing on

    Thing is, there are rules the school follows. You can’t cut to much of a semester. I believe you can only cut back a week. The things you are saying such as summer jobs and summer school has been talking to death. But seriously, take your pick, either you get your courses in, or you can drop out and take a job. I know it hurts people for making money towards school, but it happens.

    So yeah, they can’t sort it out because you need to know when we are starting before hand. If they say “this is how it will go” and the strike lasts 2 weeks longer, they have to go back.

    I don’t freak out to much over this stuff. Fact is, you still have 3+ months from now till summer time to find a job. At most, you may lose 2weeks of work. And I’m sure if someone said they would give you a job next summer, they won’t go back on their word. If they do, well they are not the kind of people you would want to work with.

  44. theowne

    I just got this email from my science Prof:

    “Dear valued students,

    This long strike has made me see the error of my ways. I now realize that theoretical physics can only fulfill a small part of the desire of human beings. I have decided to retire as a professor and pursue a life of antique coin-collecting. I trust that you will understand my decision, and treat your replacement, the janitor, with the utmost respect. Thank you.”

  45. cupe...what a joke


    start living in the real world
    your talking like there wouldnt be a problem for anyone under any circumstances

  46. steve

    @ Theowne
    LMAO =)) ahahahahah OMG cant stop laughin!!! WTF is wrong w/ this science prof =))

  47. yorkiee101

    sooo whenn do yu think schools going to start?

  48. B

    yorkiee101 – I’d bet good money on sometime in 2009.

  49. theowne

    School started last week, where’ve you been yorkie???

  50. AndrewB

    @cupe…what a joke

    “start living in the real world
    your talking like there wouldnt be a problem for anyone under any circumstances”

    No I’m not. I know fully well there is an exception to everything. But as I said, students tend to freak out over everything. I’ve seen it more then enough times during my years in school. But basically it comes down to, do you want to finish school or do you want a job for the summer? Sadly this strike is part of the “real world”, and the time it has taken to fix this problem is part of the “real world”. The university can’t remove more then 1 week from a semester. So IN REALITY (ie. in the “real world” of things) if this goes on much longer, people are going to have to accept the fact they won’t be getting to their summer jobs as quickly as before. YES, it sucks, and it’s just another added “bonus” to our already messed up lives at the moment.

    So don’t tell me to live in the real world. Tell the students who continue to complain about how this strike is going to mess up summer jobs, because THAT is the real world. Things happen that you can’t always control but will have effects on your life.

  51. wtv

    a lot of these “my prof wrote” posters seem to be TAs, non?


  52. Pally Wally


    I just got this email from my science Prof:

    “Dear valued students,

    This long strike has made me see the error of my ways. I now realize that theoretical physics can only fulfill a small part of the desire of human beings. I have decided to retire as a professor and pursue a life of antique coin-collecting. I trust that you will understand my decision, and treat your replacement, the janitor, with the utmost respect. Thank you.””

    Where to begin with that!

    So the prof is retiring, and the students are being replaced collectively by “the janitor”?

    Suffice to say, that this attitude is the primary reason I went into the liberal arts. Hopefully this person does retire and is replaced with someone with a better pedagogy – and dare I say: command of English grammar.

  53. cupe...what a joke


    york is continuously losing any reputation it has.
    students will transfer and students will drop out. there are alot of people who wont take out a loan because they would dig themselves in a hole.

    this is all the unions fault. none of them deserve what they want nor should they get it.

    each student should give them what they deserve the first day they see them. one finger in the air and a dirty look.

  54. yocoolma

    Viva la Revolution!
    Go CUPE Go!

  55. theowne


    Calm down there. It’s fake. I just made it up as a response to all the dumb “My prof sent me this” posts above me. I thought anyone would realize that.

    Though I’m amused at how upset you seem to have become.

    And also that you actually believed it. And you’re a TA? o_0

  56. yorkstrike2008

    January 11, 2009 at 4:51 pm · Edit
    Viva la Revolution!
    Go CUPE Go!”

    Viva la Revolución

  57. yocoolma

    @ yorkstrike2008
    Thank you for the correction

  58. yocoolma

    Viva la Revolución
    Go CUPE Go

  59. AndrewB

    @cupe…what a joke

    You don’t need to be telling me that, if I get any lip from my cupe members, I’ll give them a finger salute.

    Though to be honest, I really don’t buy into the “my degree will be worth less” stuff. Seriously, employeers look at the resume and see you have education. I very much doubt someone will get a resume and say “oh, he came from york and was put through a strike. He won’t be good.”

    Plus give it 2 years and we’ll see how York’s rep is once the rest of cupe strikes around Ontario. Then people will be like “OHHHHH Now I see why York couldn’t do shit all with these people.”

  60. CUPE member with child


    That was hilarious. One good joke per day keeps me going.


    Your response in our discussion was really sub-par, if you don’t mind me saying. Do you want to take another crack at it, or should I respond to that one? I might not make it on for another day or two so take your time…

  61. Saddi

    @ theowne

    that was hilarious, and obviously dripping with sarcasm. *shakes head*….ohhh Pallywally…

  62. Andrew

    As a prof, I can confirm that nobody is telling me shit.

  63. Pally Wally

    I don’t think I was upset, I found it amusing – like when Billy Corgan quit music because of N*SYNC.

    On a related note, if I were a TA, I would not be posting inflammatory material in public.

    Anyway – I am glad that it is satire and not something that was actually sent to you by a prof; either way, I think it is pretty hilarious. So, good one!

  64. Jerk

    The fact is this thing is going to be on for a while. Anybody up for a vacation?

  65. lun

    how valid is a pass/fail option if this strike persists any longer?

  66. Jiggs

    So just to be sure…IF (and i know its a BIG if) this strike should go on to the point that the fall term must be cancelled entirely, exactly how will that work out for full year courses? Will that essentially only effect half year courses for the fall? I mean even of the exam period is cancelled, can’t they jsut remediate a full year course through either an in-class exam or by making the final exam worth more?

  67. amy doan

    enough vacation time…need to be ‘educated’ !

  68. Pally Wally

    “I am no doubt not the only one who writes in order to have no face. Do not ask who I am and do not ask me to remain the same: leave it to our bureaucrats and our police to see that our papers are in order. At least spare us their morality when we write”

  69. Commuter

    Tommy used to work on the docks
    Union’s been on strike
    He’s down on his luck…it’s tough, so tough.

  70. Commuter

    Teachers used to work at the school
    CUPE’s been on strike
    The students are f’d… it sucks, so much.

  71. sam

    sit tight folks, it’s going to be a bumpy ride…

  72. yorkstrike2008


    Your response in our discussion was really sub-par, if you don’t mind me saying. Do you want to take another crack at it, or should I respond to that one? I might not make it on for another day or two so take your time…”

    You joust of course, as the rest of your kind. Cut, run and hope for the foe to confound. If you held appreciation for any of the work you employ in this discussion with me, you would not so quickly disregard my arguments. Perhaps you should go on to read some Thomas Moore. I would go as far to say as he invokes appreciation for the conscious of others more than the illfounded claims of democratic integrity that you have delivered.

  73. Yorker

    Strike lasted 77 days last time.
    Strike keeps going on ?? or ??? days this time.
    Strike will last ???? days next time.

    York finds a way to fix the strike issue or the University’s reputation will be ruined for good.

  74. tired

    i really pray that fall semester gets canceled indtead of having a sub standard / low quality compressed education and poor grades. It will have a toll on our GPA. I would rather prefer that Semester gets scrapped off.

  75. tired

    Tomorrow (Monday) is 68th day of the strike. !! 9 more days to hit the 11 week mark. I sincerely wish that this semester is scrapped off. I do not want to play with my grades.

  76. a disappointed canadian

    QQ more union

  77. @Pally Wally

    Billy Corgan quit music cause of Britney Spears, not N’Sync…

  78. pp

    I know this is a little off topic but I don’t know where else to post it…The essays that were originally due during the strike…will they be due during the first 13 days?… while we are crunching in 2 months of material which we will be tested on AND while studying for exams which will follow right after that 13 days?

  79. Pally Wally

    Not that this is an e-dating service, but while we are listing our personal likes and dislikes, I am annoyed by hypocrisy; calling other people insecure then bragging about getting in to law school seems to fall squarely into that category.

  80. Pally Wally


    the Senate said at some point that any material due within the first week of the strike would not be due until at least one class had been held allowing the class time to vote on redoing the syllabus.

    As far as compression goes, we aren’t losing that much in terms of lectures (so far) – but exams are going to be HECTIC!

  81. @ Davey

    Exactly what I was thinking. Its pretty sad, since most of the people here read books to tell them how to make choices. I seriously believe you when you say they lack self-esteem.

  82. pp

    Pally Wally,

    Thanks, I know its going to be NUTS…I guess I should start studying from now…I say that every morning but can’t seem to get to it!

  83. Pally Wally

    Lol – I don’t expect there to be much trouble. Most profs know the score.

    Good luck!

  84. Artem

    @pally wally, pp


  85. CUPE member with child

    @yorkstrike2008. Since you’ve taken it as an effrontery that I suggested you go back to the drawing board on your response, I’ll point out why I think your argument is erroneous.

    1) In your original post you acknowleged the weakness of the contract to date that York has offered. You did so in relation to a professor that you have and appear to admire. I’ll also assume (perhaps wrongly) that your view of the weakness of the contract extends to other members of unit 2 cupe3903, and possibly even to the other cupe units. You follow that up with:

    “Of course the only method of pressure the Union has is by withdrawing its labour from York.”

    This acknowleges that striking is the only viable tactic to achieve cupe3903’s aims which, as already summarized, you’ve argued are valid.

    You then suggest that striking (cupe’s only power) is only valid if there is a time-limit on its duration.

    Suggesting we emulate the Ontario Teachers, you claim “As such, they rarely have strikes that last more than a month, I believe the longest was in 1970 something and it lasted 38 days. They have never held a strike , to the best of my knowledge, for two months twice in the same decade. Their strikes usually last about 2 weeks and they gradually increased their wages and power.”

    Suggesting that once a certain time limit passes, cupe3903 should capitulate to the will of York University by surrendering it’s right to continue to strike (its only power) would lead to…

    York simply waiting until such time passes without budging a penny or giving one single SRC.

    …Unless of course you believe in the benevolence of York University?

    Side-note to point (1) Despite this hollow recommendation, I’ll sum up for you why I think Ontario Teacher’s strikes are usually effective within a shorter period of time. I’ll do so in two words:

    Childcare Expenses.

    2) In point 2 (regarding “intimidation” and “militancy”), you discuss your own experiences and those of others you’ve talked to (which is heresay) with what you call “wandering gangs of CUPE members who look like they walked out the jungle in Panama in the 1980s.”

    I haven’t seen such “gangs”, nor will I assume a relation between what they look like they’re doing and what they’re actually doing. I have, however, been to the GMMs and seen how GMMs operate. So far I have not seen any violence or threats of violence. Only in one instance have I heard a ‘shouting down’, and it was by those who thought a pro-striker was speaking out of order, i.e. it wasn’t his turn to speak.

    There’s no way for me to confirm your experiences with the alleged “militants”, and there’s no way for you to confirm the experiences that I’ve related, so I don’t see them as sufficient means of convincing a debate.

    Despite this, and in relation to the original point, I will maintain:

    So far, the decision to strike and the decision to carry on the strike (Thursday’s vote, exact motion and results have been published), have been carried out democratically by the membership in so far as people choose to vote, and in so far as people choose to show up and vote.

    If you think that the union should not make the decision to strike and to carry on the strike in this democratic manner, then I ask you again by what better process should we follow?

    So far the only people I see criticizing the process are those who criticize the result of the process. And I don’t see any recommendations to improve the process or one that we should replace it with should it be entirely over-thrown.

    Would you really have the union say to itself, “oh well, most of the membership hasn’t showed up and/or hasn’t voted so we should overturn the decision of those who have in the assumption that those who haven’t voted would have voted the other way?

    However union members have arrived at their ‘convictions’ (i.e. their ‘vote’ in this context), a democratic process must respect the outcome and follow its directive. To assume that your convictions are arrived at with some type of greater understanding, and should thus overturn the process lends itself absurdly contradictory to your earlier appeal to ‘equality of conscience’ that introduced your first post.

    Now you’d have us skip process altogether and go straight to some kind of result.

    3) Last, and related to this, you draw on Dworkin to state:

    “It remains all too likely, that people are following like sheep or parrots and that their stated positions may not be what they believe or what they would believe if they were to understand a moral position and consent to it.”

    Of course. Better understanding is always better preparation, better processes, and better results. But if you can find a way to separate the “sheep” from those who are enlightened, or better yet: seperate the ideas in your own head that are bleets from those that are rays of light, then be sure to let us all know.

    Hegel would suggest that all we ever do is bleet.

  86. Davey

    @Paully Wally
    That was called irony.

  87. whatsgoing on

    summer jobs are important…too say they arent is stupid…bottom line is no matter how much of the real world this is, school needs to end at the “real” time…they need to accomadate…bottom line…and if the strike goes past 11 weeks what happens? if school goes into april and then exams may thats fine, but if we are inactual classes in may, and then exams in june thats so screwed up…and i agree too many people think they are soo smart…we all go to univeristy people, your not any smarter than anyone else (your probably those people who argue with profs in the middle of lecture and you think your cool but everyone hates you and thinks your an idiot)

  88. Pally Wally

    Yes, hypocrisy is an ironic phenomenon for most of us that expect rational people to behave in coherence with their beliefs…

  89. whatsgoing on

    cupe member with child. you guys are so dumb…why do you come on here…we all hate you now, and those that dont are retarded if they dont…we all know you guys are the greediest stupid people known to exist to mankind right now, so just admit it to yourselves…so sickening how dumb my t/a’s are…unions are gay and the people in them are gayer…instead of complaining you dont get enough get a real job…if your position was as good as you guys want to make it, the whole york grad population would be ta’ing

  90. The Man With The Plan

    @ whatsgoing on

    Wow, well said.

  91. 1. I haven’t received a single email from a prof either. I’ve emailed them, and no response.

    2. yorknothostage is just a lame wad vehicle for that lyndon whatever dude. So far he’s just represented himself as a bumbling idiot trying to make a name for himself. FAIL.

  92. Veegirl

    @ Kavisolo
    If you have ever met this guy you would take back all your immature comments. He is respectable, practical and he is doing a lot for undergraduates. He unlike you in not a keyboard warrior….. he is actually DOING something about the strike.

  93. TRUTH

    @ Veegirl
    That guy is a pathetic lier looking to complete his resume for future; that tool also accepted to become Shurman’s toy
    He is betraying all students by telling them lies in order to take advantage of them and make progress for future
    Nobody benefits from the strike as much as him

  94. Stef

    Has anyone else noticed that there has been virtually no coverage of the strike in the media? (I am a CBC junkie extraordinaire, and it’s really tough to find info – radio, television, or internet!)
    I have a theory:
    High school students are just about to send off their applications and I have a hunch that this is being kept hush to keep the young-uns naive and ready to become yet another number in a gigantic commuter school that clearly doesn’t care about our situations.
    What they don’t know can’t hurt them…until 2010.

  95. rawrz

    Personally I think most of this is being controlled by the leaders of CUPE3903 and the union members have little to do with it.
    Afterall, not many of the members even went to vote to let the strike happen.

    If the union members supported this strike so much, then why would they not allow the members to vote for the last York offer?
    It seems to me that the union is much more concerned with money and their own benefits without considering the impact on students and the effects of the economy.

    I mean really, stop giving us that ‘below the poverty line’ crap. Its a part time job, (especially for the TA’s) and these people STILL make atleast 4 times the amount that the average undergrad student does. So our TA’s claim to be below poverty line and in debt, while making way more than the undergrad student does. What about us undergrads?

    I believe your theory is right. This is almost the only place where I can find info on the strike. Not to mention, a few nights ago I kept seeing York commercials (with the 50 anniversary and everything) on TV.

    Honestly, if I wasn’t in the HR program and I can’t really transfer out of York without changing my major, I would’ve transfered to U of T already even though I turned them down in the first place.

    Let’s just face it. York’s rep is pretty much over, all thanks to the Union. When I work in the future, if I ever get the responsibility of hiring, I will NEVER hire any former CUPE3903 employee (even if it is an unlikely situation, I still stand by this!).

  96. demarche

    As a York professor, I’m alarmed to find that so many undergraduate students feel that to York you’re just a student number.

    I’m genuinely interested in knowing why.

    For what it’s worth, as I’ve said in a previous post, most professors are very upset by the strike. It’s almost all we talk about. (By this I mean tenure-track and tenured professors, not CUPE instructors, though I’m sure many of them are upset too.) It’s awful what students are being put through for reasons that have nothing to do with them.

    We’d all like the strike to have been over long ago. But if what CUPE is demanding would seriously damage the university’s ability to teach students and do research for years to come, then what can the adminstration do?

  97. rawrz


    The reason why we feel like a student number is because the members of the union hasn’t put an end to this strike. But its not really their fault because the union isn’t letting its members vote for it.

    I’m sure you don’t like standing on the picket line, and honestly I like sitting at home but realistically, this is screwing me, and 49,999 other students over so much.

    Since I can’t transfer to another university, I started college part time in order to compensate myself a little bit. My parents fund $3000 each month to keep me in Toronto to go to school and I’ve done nothing but sit around everyday since the strike started. If I can’t get my bachelor’s by 2010, maybe I can atleast get a diploma or something.

    I just think, the union is a bit scared to let its members vote on offers because they know that it has dragged on too long. The union members are affected by the strike, just like the students are, and want to end it. There probably won’t be a low turn out for voting sessions anymore and the members will probably vote to accept whatever offer there is. Realistically, if you guys were so upset with the working conditions at York, maybe you should’ve left by now to another University.

  98. almost over

    @ whatsgoing on
    January 11, 2009 at 8:47 pm
    “cupe member with child. you guys are so dumb…why do you come on here…we all hate you now, and those that dont are retarded if they dont…we all know you guys are the greediest stupid people known to exist to mankind right now, so just admit it to yourselves…so sickening how dumb my t/a’s are…unions are gay and the people in them are gayer…instead of complaining you dont get enough get a real job…if your position was as good as you guys want to make it, the whole york grad population would be ta’ing”

    By the way you write (and I assume, speak), I don’t even know if you deserve to be in university. Like many students, I’m not in the union but I don’t hate the TAs. (I’m angry with both sides). But I’m not “retarded” or “gay”.

    Watch your language and grow up. Whoever decided that those 2 words were synonyms for “stupid” and “pathetic” and whatever else you were intending?? You embarass yourself when you say that.

  99. Angry Mom

    So, students, why don’t you drum up some media attention and make your frustrations known? What about staging a mock funeral to mourn the death of your access to education? Set a date, time and funeral procession route. Make a casket. Dress in black. Play dirges. Sing hymns. Have someone theatrical give a eulogy. Drama makes good clips. Let the media know. Doesn’t have to be on campus. In fact, it would be better if you were visible by more people. Pick a significant educational site, such as a statue of Egerton Ryerson (19th century advocate of universal and compulsory education in Ontario).

  100. demarche

    @ rawrz

    Thanks for your comments, but actually I’m a regular York professor, not a contract instructor. I’m not on strike.

    Probably you know this, but I’ll explain anyway, because a surprising number of people don’t know this. At York there are regular professors, who teach, do research, and do some administration work. I’m one of those. Our union is YUFA, not CUPE. And then, many courses are taught by people who aren’t professors, but who do have a Ph.D., and who are hired on contract to teach courses that we don’t have enough professors to teach. Their union is CUPE, and they’re the ones who are on strike. The graduate students who are TA’s are in the same union (which seems strange to many of us, but that’s the way it is) and they’re on strike too.

    As a tenured professor, I plan to spend the next 20 to 40 years of my life at York, so it’s very depressing to see the future of York damaged like this. And also, that’s why I’m interested in hearing why so many undergraduates are dissatisfied with how they’re treated at York.

    The strike is awful. But to say that to York you’re just a number seems to imply that there’s some easy solution available to York. And if we think that just giving in to CUPE’s demands would be damaging to the university for many years to come … well, if you have a solution, I know many people who would be eager to hear it.

  101. Jiggs

    yes well i like the idea of action! We need to organize SOMETHING to get this bullshit to end! Something this week before the ratification!

  102. Jiggs

    Who seconds the idea of taking action through demonstration?! PLEASE…i know many of you think that no one will listen to us and itssimply a waste of time, but its better to do SOMETHING than let a bunch of old men with noses as crooked as their intentions discuss your academic future without consulting you or even notifying you on progress as it happens!!!! PLEASE…lets organize a demonstration!!!!! Who will second this and decide to get off their ass and start let people know we exist and we have a say in this matter as well (the BIGGEST say)?!?!?!

  103. 4th Year Student

    I’d like to help with a demonstration of some sort. I want to go back to class!!

  104. JMac

    The last few communiqués that I have read from CUPE on here or on their own site basically deal with their dissatisfaction over York’s lack of movement on issues of job security for certain members of their group.

    They never put a dollar value on these things but the key to me is that CUPE isn’t outwardly showing any concern over the wage and contract length issues.

    If I were York I would seriously look at these non-monetary and non-contract length items and make significant improvements BEFORE the vote. That way they could offer the union what they are “currently” saying they want and avoid the 2 year contract.

    I did try to refernece the 3903strike web site but it isn’t working right now.


    Heres a solution:

    Agree to a 1 YEAR 4% contract, just so we all can resume classes, and then negotiate behind the scenes during the year.

    I am sure thaT BOTH cupe and york can come to compromise in a years time. and it can be done without further damaging Yorks reputation, and students lives in the process. Who knows, maybe the ecenomy will pick up in a years time, and York can afford what they are demanding…

    A message to TA`s: now is not really the time to be making a stand to make TA`s a `real job`. It would be tactful to wait until the economy rebounds then make your stand. The demands are more than what anyone would expect in even full-time employment in todays conditions.

  106. yorkstrike2008

    CUPE Member with Child,

    My arguments concerning democratic integrity have been entirely convoluted by your eratic oscillation between process and outcome and their mutual significance to each other. I will not carry this part of the conversation further since we are beginning to get into a very long debate. You may email me and we can further discuss this privately.

    “Suggesting that once a certain time limit passes, cupe3903 should capitulate to the will of York University by surrendering it’s right to continue to strike (its only power) would lead to… ”

    Negative. I never once said that 3903 should capitulate to York. They should however not be “Demanding the Impossible” (the slogan ubiquitous on the 3903 strikeblog) when that is holding 50,000 people here. Demand what is fair to everyone. Does the membership require some grade 3 playground lessons on sharing? 3903 should recognise that there are three actors in this: students, York and 3903 itself. The more parties, the more problematic it becomes to elongate this labour disruption. 3903 should LOWER ITS EXPECTATIONS.

    For how long was the BT asking for over 20%+ in compensation increases over 2 years? That would never happen, ever, ever,ever…ever!

    3903 had to have recognised this simple deduction:

    Our demands are (self admitedly, “the impossible”).

    York will never concede to “the impossible” for many reaons.

    This strike will cause a large disruption for 50,000 people, depending on the length of the strike.

    To get the impossible, this strike will last a very long time.

    Therefore, this strike will significantly damage the lives of 50,000 (which it already has).

    For what? So 3903 can settle for the possible at the end of the day?

    I don’t even know where to begin with the vulgarity here…

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  108. demarche

    @ solution

    Interesting. I can’t see CUPE going for it, though, because as has been pointed out many times, they are “demanding the impossible” (the title of their initial bargaining demand to the university, and a slogan from the leftist May 1968 Paris uprising), like giving their long-term contract faculty tenure, sabbaticals, and lifetime job security, and they know that the only way they have any chance of getting this is to put York in a position where something terrible is about to happen, like students losing their year and making no student ever want to come to York ever again. So under other circumstances, something like this just might work, but it seems different this time around. Interesting idea, though.

  109. JMac


    “Heres a solution:

    Agree to a 1 YEAR 4% contract, just so we all can resume classes, and then negotiate behind the scenes during the year.”

    Based on their demonstrated ability to negotiate to this point, they would be doing this all over in less than 10 months.

    The difference would be that CUPE would be seeking another 1 year contract to line up with the 2010 crowd.

    Such a solution would result in 1st and 2nd year students being subjected to this nonsense THREE years in a row. I guarantee students would be transferring out of York in droves if they agreed to a one year deal.

  110. As I have said in a previous post, if I was not in my fourth year, I would transfering to UofT or Ryerson. Yes, Ryerson. I feel bad for those who intend to have York as the institution that gives them their ‘final’ degree. Unless you are at Osgoode or Schulic, this degree has to let you look like complete crap. It also does not help when people like me constantly complain about how terrible York is.

    On a side-note, at York you are jus a number? Honestly, I don’t agree with that. Yes, there are some professors who treat you like just a number. Alyson Lunny for instance. However, I have had TONS of profs who have been willing to sit down with me and have long talks about this and that. I won’t give his name, but I even had a prof sit with me for two hours last year helping me decide whether or not I wanted to apply to law school or grad school. I believe there are two types of students who proclaim that ‘at york you are just a number’. First, the first years. During my first year, I did feel like I was just a number. Al of my courses had 200-300 students. None of the profs wanted to talk to me. However, during my first year of study, my TA’s were VERY good with us.

    Second, there are the people who are either just stupid or are just following a catch slogan of those who hate York just because it is cool at York to hate York. I have NEVER run into a professor teaching a 3rd or 4th year class who was an ass to students. Every prof I had, would sit and listen to them UNLESS they asked a stupid ass question such as:

    “Duh, when is like, you know, um, the exam n shit?”

    I find the tenured professors to be nicer than the contract professors. However, that is semi-understandle because it is REASONABLE to assume that a contract prof has another job.

    And yes, I do realize the irony in starting my post bashing York and ending my post defending it. But that is because this whole situation is just complicated. Anyone who feels that it is a black and white issue about whether York is great or not, simply is wrong or are drinking ideological kool-aid.

    In short, York is what you make it. You are crazy to think that in a school with 50,000 people, that you are going to get professors to come to you. But if you come to them, you will be suprised with how nice they are.

    Oh yeah, and fuck the YFS.

  111. @JMAC

    Since I won’t be here next year, I don’t exactly care. However, you are right. A 1 year contract will just lead to another strike next year.

  112. 4th Year Student

    transfering to another university is not so easy.

    I have already paid my tuition at york that i will not be getting back.. i dont have more money to put into another university.

    Also, as a 4th year student i have completed most of the requirements needed for my program at York. Going to another University will have new requirements to complete and it will take more time..

  113. F-Ed Up

    Re: “Supervised” or “Forced Ratification” Vote

    Has anyone found *credible* info documenting when this vote is to be held? Or has that info not been released/determined yet?


    All I was saying is that York may be in a better position give in to some demands next year when the economy improves. If many don’t think they will be able to compromise in 12 months time, then what makes you believe that a compromise will be reached in less than 2 weeks from now? It would also work for the PR of CUPE, as the main resason why people hate them, is because their demands are impossible in todays markets.

    Right Now it is impossible.. who knows what IS possible in 12 months. Yorks motto is: “redefine the possible”.. heh heh

  115. 3rd year n counting

    York degree is not crap. It is a degree like any other, some universities will have degrees in certain fields that will suck too and some York programs will be recognized and considered better than other unis… It all depends on the degree.

    But you are definitely a number in York. Someone in the above posts said that they had 200-300 students in their class? ummm. Mine were 900. And I am in third year still wondering when they come up with a chip for my arm with my number on it. So they can just scan me for exams, it’s not like they’ll ever know my name anyway.

    Some profs are different. I have a few that really care. One of them helped me A LOT and surprise, she still does not know my name. She MAY, however, recognize me in the hallway……

    My friend transferred to Trent, her classes are small, profs are helpful and it’s like a one big happy family. Granted, bigger schools cannot be a big happy family, but I’m sure it is nice to feel like a human and not cattle.

    Finally York’s bureacracy (i think i spelled it correctly) it is INSANE!!! This is the most frustrating system I’ve ever had to work with. Several people I know gave up on it half way just cuz they couldnt take the stress of York’s many advisors, secretaries, etc and their attitude…. One of these “happy” people really screwed my degree too, except I’m still fighting.

    This strike is the cherry on the cake. I cant quit bcs I have to finish my degree and it is one of the best in Ontario. I also cant move cuz I work three jobs here in Toronto. I probably wont be able to graduate next year, depending on what they do with the summer school. So I’m stuck here, with no money in spite of my many jobs and no options. Makes me really love our alma mater…

    F-Ed Up, there is no set date for the forced vote. We’ll find out as soon as the government sets them, provided CUPE follows as they’re told. But my prof (the one that cares most) says we wont be back for at least another week. He also said that if we are not back within a coupla weeks they may cancel summer school….

    I hate this situation we are in, I find it rediculous that 3000+ people are making 50 000 lives miserable. Who gave them the right? And I dont buy it for a minute that anyone of the 50 000 will appreciate this enough in future to justify this screwed up 2+ months of our lives.

  116. n January 8, 2009, Senate Executive released a Revised Remediation Bulletin, containing important information affecting students.

    Term highlights as approved by Senate Executive are identified in this bulletin and shared in part below. These decisions have been made based on information available to date.

    Fall term

    1. The Fall term will resume once a ratified settlement has been reached between the parties AND a declaration of the resumption of academic activities has been made by Senate Executive.
    2. The declaration will provide at least 24 hours notice between Senate Executive’s declaration and the resumption of classes.
    3. At this stage and based on information available to date, the Fall term will include:
    * 13 days of instruction from Monday to Friday;
    * a 12-day exam schedule; and
    * 11 weeks of instruction in length.
    4. Commensurate adjustments will be made for courses that meet on weekends or are delivered in other modes (e.g. weekend classes will continue to be held on weekends in alignment with newly established sessional dates).

    Winter term

    1. The Winter term will resume immediately following the Fall term (i.e. no overlap).
    2. As announced prior to the holiday break, Reading Week is now cancelled.
    3. At this stage and based on information available to date, the term will include:
    * 11 weeks of instruction from Monday to Friday; and
    * a 12-day exam schedule.
    4. Commensurate adjustments will be made for courses that meet on weekends or are delivered in other modes (e.g. weekend classes will continue to be held on weekends in alignment with newly established sessional dates).

    Important Web links

    * Senate Policy governing the actions and decisions taken by Senate Executive
    * Student and Parent Labour Disruption Web site (updated regularly by the Registrar’s Office)

    Thank you for your continued patience during this time.

    Joanne Duklas
    University Registrar
    York University

  117. AndrewB

    Regarding the “You are a number”

    There are many times during your school life when you just feel like a number and that no one is willing to actually help you. They got your money and that is that. The University of Windsor to me was a school where you were just a number. One of the creative writing teachers had been reported to the department more then three times about his grading, what he teaches and the amount of class time we felt he wasted. Nothing was ever done and we were told “we just need to listen to him.” Basically being pushed aside.

    When I came to York I thought for sure I’d get the same. The English department was hit or miss depending on who you got. The head of the department at the time was great to talk to, and would give it to you straight. If he felt you were wasting time, he told you. But then this summer, I was in a position where I was 6 credits short of 4th year and was unable to register for 4th year classes. My repeated calls to the department and the office of the Dean for arts basically went unanswered. I was told to wait till August to get into classes, or September and see what people drop. The arts office did not want to get involved for me, even though they had done so in the past, and English didn’t care. I was lucky I got into the classes I needed on the 14th, even though some of them I hate with a sick passion.

    As was said before, University is what you make of it. That doesn’t mean you need to be active in University affairs, be an activist or give a damn about anything York has outside of your classes. But you would be surprised of what teachers would do for you if you just talk to them. They are human mind you.


    In times like these, it is fairly obvious why we feel like just a number. Because a number you can easily say no to. It is why the number 50,000 doesn’t matter, because there are no names to it. There are no stories. ‘50,000 students are out of school’ doesn’t sound as harsh as ‘Andrew can’t pay his rent, John is going to have to drop out, Steve has to move back home, Anne won’t get her summer job, Allan can’t feed himself.’ In this strike the student’s have spoken fairly clearly that we are tired of being a pawn, yet both sides have passed us off. Students asked for a deadline, and it was ignored. 3400 people are holding up the lives of 50,000 and no one seems to care. It never has been about the students, that is just an added tag line.

    And then we will return to school and will Profs actually care about what we went through? Profs have already emailed students and said “We will not be removing material” basically assuring them that they will have to cram 4 weeks into 3, then a speedy exam schedule will be made and we have to do it. We have no choice or say in the matter. We keep taking shot after shot in this strike and we are not even allowed to sit at the table. We have to write the essays and write the tests and do the assignments, and though I don’t want to claim marking is easy, but when you have 4-6 classes of teachers throwing all their work into the final week and basically saying “get it done”, well I hope you can see why students are going to be upset and think they are a number. I myself have kept up reading, but I cannot for the life of me do essays or presentations while I am home. I am not in that mind frame to do so, as are many others as well. I’ve been off it for 2 months. As soon as the strike is over, I have 1 week to turn it around and turn out a presentation and an essay for the same day, and another essay the week after. Will any time be given to me to get back into the “university mode”? Probably not. It will just be expected of me, and I have to complete it or I fail.

  118. AndrewB


    I just wanted to echo one point someone brought up. Secretaries at York are horrible. I don’t know if they just down right hate what they do, but they seem to loath the fact that they have to answer phone calls. Now I will say, I can see the pain it would be answering questions all day that could easily be found online (I hate when students ask it here and in class) but they have this attitude about them that speaks “I hate students”. My example above with the 4th year issue I had resulted in me never wanting to interact with English department secretaries again, because I was treated so poorly. I was hung up on, rushed off the phone and given stupid answer that I had to call back for because I would find out what they told me was wrong. If you get them on a good day you are fine and they are sweet (call Friday’s people) but most of the time I was treated with such disrespect, I felt as if I was nothing more then a number.

  119. tmsfy

    Everyone keeps saying that 3000+ people are responsible for the strike when in fact only 22% of the union voted and only 75% voted in favor of a strike, so in reality it’s even less people. After more than 2 months of the strike, that still doesn’t make any logical sense to me..

  120. JMac

    Man, I wish McGuinty and his MPPs could read AndrewB’s last post. What AndrewB is going through is what 49,999 other students are and will be going through for the foreseeable future.

    This isn’t just about time lost over the past 2 months…
    – it is about students getting screwed by having the last part of the semester crammed into a few days
    – first semester exams being crammed into half the normal time slot
    – getting screwed in semester 2 by losing study week (this week is critical to student success)
    – having semester 2 exam period shortened as well
    – and to top it off
    – having to stay in school longer than every other university student who will be getting the jump on a limited number of summer jobs.

    Their marks will suffer because of cramming everything into tighter timelines.

    They lose the money wasted “hanging around” waiting for their futures to be decided because they have to pay rent and eat.

    They lose money in May or June because they won’t be able to work to pay off these losses until a month later than normal.

    Students are the big losers in this strike and in the end they definitely have been and will be treated like numbers as CUPE and York move forward from this mess.

  121. JMac

    @ tmsfy

    Even though 78% of the CUPE members didn’t vote to go on strike, I believe it is reasonable to assume most of them consented and agreed with the union’s strike action by not voting. They knew what the vote was for.

    The same goes for the 85% who didn’t show up at the last General Membership Meeting. If these people really wanted to change the direction that their executive was headed, they would have showed up and made a difference. Instead, they couldn’t have been bothered.

  122. theowne

    Train wreck:


    Are these people really human beings or robots?

  123. dsd

    * 13 days of instruction from Monday to Friday;
    * a 12-day exam schedule; and
    * 11 weeks of instruction in length.

    So… instead of almost 2 months of school they are giving us 13 days? Is it just me, or refund is in order?

  124. Quasimodo


    so while we wait in agony,
    come on down to the chelsea room Jan 31st!
    Old style ska n Gospel style rock n’ roll!!
    only $5, starts @ 10

    (923 Dundas West)


  125. dsd

    Stop advertising your gigs on this board.

  126. @dsd

    Honestly, how do you figure that you are loosing out on 2 months of class time? 13 days is 2.5 weeks. I don’t remember exactly when first semester was supposed to end, but we would not have had more than 3-4 weeks left.

  127. dsd

    Yes we would. Sure, we wouldn’t have 2 full months, hence the word “almost”, but 13 days seems to be way too short. I still have 2 midterms to write, looks like I’m screwed by this strike, not like I’m the only one though.

  128. Stef

    In regards to the “just a number” comment,
    I have had truly amazing professors at York, and I don’t know if they belonged to YUFA or CUPE, and quite frankly, it doesn’t matter to me, as an undergrad.

    What I meant by the comment was that there was a 6 week period (maybe longer?) where neither side was talking to each other, at all. Nada.

    Now, I am a big, BIG, believer in bargaining, negotiations, so on and so forth, but to have both sides dig their heels in like that was so immature, and I know that universities are not solely built for the education of undergrads, but with 50 000 of us put out, I would feel like that should have been motivation for both sides to grow up and start talking.

    Instead, I have heard rumours from people about CUPE being paid to e-picket on blogs like this, leading me to believe that we are seen as pawns. York admin is still claiming its money, resident students are still paying for lodging, meal plans, etc. I will probably not be able to return any books that get “glossed over” should the syllabus become compressed. This, leads me to believe that all York sees over my head is a dollar sign. Finally, in terms of professors, regardless of union/representation, I know for a fact that many people have not heard back from their profs when asking questions regarding their schooling.

    I understand that they are on strike, but when it is a situation of wanting to stay ahead, and the moodle syllabus only has the readings up to the day of the strike, how can we be expected to deal well with this upcoming compression? What happens if I decide to do an assignment on my own that will be scrapped come the return to class?

    This is why I feel like I’m seen as a number. And quite frankly, that number represents how much money I can give the university without reaching my breaking point.

  129. Stef

    PS – To Demarche,
    I think it’s great that you’re on here, as a tenured university professor, it will balance out the CUPE rants. (Sorry CUPE people, I like information, but when it gets theoretical with philosophical origins and such, I would rather pick up a text book and read my assigned theoretics.)

    I should clarify, when I said York sees us as numbers, I meant everyone, not just the York side. (And, I have to say, you’re the first person in my four years at York who has expressed concern over any sort of dissatisfaction I’ve had – it’s refreshing.)

  130. Disillusioned

    I am wondering if anyone knows if certain assignments may be cancelled and the exams worth more given the new time restrictions? I certainly hope that does NOT happen as I tend to get nervous for exams and it could alter my average significantly. Does anyone know if this happened after the last strike, or did the grades in the syllabuses (syllabi?) stand?

  131. Relaxo-Grad


    Pfff, haha! I know no worldly things. My worldly knowledge absorption came to an abrupt halt Nov.6 when CUPE decided to rape my graduate year.
    You’re preaching (pun INTENDED) to the wrong crowd, my dear friend.
    While we’re talking about gospel-style musical outings, anyone watch the Stephen Hawking documentaries?

  132. dsd

    “What is the Vote Process?

    The Ministry of Labour administers the ratification vote. Each unit of our membership (1, 2, and 3) must vote on the employer’s January 7th offer for their unit. Employers intentionally time their request for a forced ratification vote when they believe workers on strike are the most demoralized. York University has asked for January 19th and is counting on a week of bad press, student pressure and cold weather. CUPE 3903 has asked for January 11th or 12th to follow discussion and debate at this Wednesday’s GMM. Stay tuned for the vote date.

    The vote will be held at a neutral location (probably a hotel) announced by the Ministry and you will vote yes or no by secret ballot on your unit’s offer for a collective agreement. DOWNLOAD an FAQ on the Forced Ratification Process.”

    Does it mean this week is out already as well?? For sure?

    Does this mean

  133. Stef

    Hey Disillusioned,
    I am 95% sure that what happened at the last strike was things like participation marks were dropped and tacked onto the exams, so instead of having an exam worth 30%, it was worth 45. (I’ll talk to my friend who went through the 2001 strike to confirm.)
    I don’t think they can change much of the content of the test though, so if you’re normally a B student, and you still get 75% of the answers right, you’ll stay a B student. (Any TA’s or profs want to give some input?)

  134. JMac


    Or employers request a forced ratification when they believe that the majority of the members in a union are intimidated into following along while they really would be satisfied with the proposed offer.

  135. 4th Year Student

    So does this mean that this week is also a write off?
    what a waste of time…

  136. Nellyli

    Holy …How long this nonsense will last? I am on a study permit which will get expired soon, originally, my permit will end just right before I apply for work permit. But I am worried that I may need to renew my study permit at this point in order to avoid getting my ass kicked out of Canada. This may sounds a little bit out of topic, but does anyone know whether the government or York will come up with some compensation for Visa students who are on study permit and may need a renew to stay in the country in case this strike goes longer? They better not ask me to pay for this renew application…:-(

  137. ram

    it seems quite clearly that the vote is next week. Here is the ctv news update. It says that the union has one more week decide whether they are gonna accept / reject the offer. Which means that there is one more week for the vote to take place. So, i suppose that next week could also be a right off.


  138. dsd

    well.. as French would say, fuck moi!

  139. amanda

    @ commuter
    haha i love your rendition of Living on a Prayer!

    to all lower-year students: get out while you still can!! seriously.

    i’m a year away from graduating but if the year and/or summer are cancelled, i’ll have to stay till April 2010! i’ve already been at this for since sept 2003, so this better end soon. If they do cancel the year and don’t refund us, will we still retain the credits?

    this summer i was in italy and got an email from york stating that I still hadn’t enrolled in my classes and should do so soon. i had a thought that i should just stay where i was and spend the year travelling and working! now i really wish i listened to my instincts. uggghh i hate CUPE and York!

    the main frustrating thing is that we’re totally in limbo still and have no end in sight.. so do we keep studying or start working full-time to make use of our time? my job isn’t so flexible that i can take on extra hours temporarily; i’m stuck with whatever shifts i get for three months. maybe i’ll look for a second, more flexible part-time job.

  140. j

    They just sent out another e-mail stating the academic remediation. I worked it out and if we go back January 26th, then winter semester will go until the week of May 11th, and exams will be held until May 29th.

    Is there a chance at saving the summer semester now? I don’t know what months it usually goes on.

  141. 4th Year Student

    Where does it say that the vote is next week?

  142. 4th Year Student

    The summer semester is usually from May 1 – Aug 15.

  143. York Student

    @ j

    I don’t think we will be going back on the 26th since I got a gut feeling this vote won’t work out. As for the summer semesters, there is a really good chance that there will be no summer school this year in my opinion.

  144. 4th Year Student

    has anybody been applying for full-time work?

    what response are you getting from employers? are they willing to hire you even though you will quit as soon as York resumes?

  145. Wish he stayed at Lakehead

    York is a bunch of morons. Why force a vote when a GMM vote the day before shot it down massively with almost 90% of the vote. Why not keep talking and wait for I dunno 80%? or better yet 60% turning it down. Perhaps then it would have a fighting chance to get accepted. This is no longer the Union’s fault, this is York’s fault. The onus is on York to get this done. And why the hell are they still offering 3 years. 3 years is not going to be accepted. Any idiot can see that. York’s only hope for a 3 year is binding arbitration which again the Union will never agree to because the Union is as dumb as, well, York is. Also those in favour of government intervention to solve this, think of your own futures before you demand this. Because one day you will want to have good benefits, one day you will want to have job security, one day you will want to have good wages, and one day you will want a say. Demanding this intervention now sets a precedence that will take away any say you want in the future. Im not saying you wont be able to achieve those things with government intervention but what I am saying is that some of you will not (theres 50,000 people out there chances are I will be right about ONE of them) but ALL of you will lose your voice, and your sole bargaining chip as an employee, and that is your right to strike.

  146. 4th Year Student

    Is there any chance that we will go back next week?
    When is the vote being held?

  147. Wish he stayed at Lakehead

    p.s. if your only starting to look for full time work now you wasted your chance with all the full time holiday positions that would have been perfect for any number of us with a lot of free time. Best bet would be to inquire for a job that would allow you to gobble up hours now and then maybe part time when York resumes. Discuss it with employers who knows you might get lucky.

  148. 4th Year Student

    I have been working full time where i should be doing part-time hours. i’m just wondering what kind of a response people have been getting.

  149. Dray, with information only

    Announcement of Date and Place of Supervised/”Forced” Ratification Vote:

    Monday, January 19th and 20th
    9am-1pm and 3pm-7pm,
    at the Novotel Hotel
    3 Park Home Avenue
    North York

    That’s just north of the North York Civic Centre. You can take the subway to Sheppard and continue North to the Civic Centre.

    Be there or be hated (more) by 50,000 students.

  150. ram

    @ Dray
    What is the authenticity of the information posted? any link?

  151. Pally Wally

    I’m surprised they didn’t just have it at that hotel the negotiations have been taking place. You know – the one that takes 3 or 4 transfers to get to.

  152. Dray, with information only


    Frayed knot.

    That’s a cut-and-paste off one of the CUPE list serves.

    Sooner or later, you’ll see it repeated.

  153. Confused....

    The info is on the CUPE 3903 website

  154. Dray, with information only

    So it is. So it is. It’s in a post dated January 9, but “updated January 12”.

  155. tired

    Yeah. You are right. i saw it too.

  156. Commuter

    Predictions as to whether the vote will pass or fail? I say it will fail. The TAs I’ve been in touch with our voting against it.

  157. Commuter


    Shows you what no school can do to a guy.

  158. Dray, with information only

    I’m actually voting to accept it.

    (I really like this forum, because my anonymity affords me the freedom speak my mind without any real retribution.)

  159. Andrew

    Dray, assuming you’re the same dude(tte), you previously said you would vote to reject. I’m just curious what changed your mind.

  160. AndrewB


    Not starting a fight just rather a comment.

    One thing I have hated since day one of this is all the CUPE members hiding behind names. I just think if you are going to sit here and spread information and tell students what they should do and why your way is better (more towards pro-union people) you should at least have the ‘balls’ to put your name down for what you believe in.

    Just seems sheepish to me. People are afraid to say who they are just in case they get black balled by the union. Yet they will still get the same contract.

    I think they are more afriad of their students finding it out it was them.

  161. DF

    My God this strike has already been annoying. But if they cancel summer school, than im going to get mad…

  162. Dray, soapboxing like he said (s)he wouldn't


    Thanks for asking.

    I don’t recall saying I’d vote to reject. (Where did I say this, specifically?) Rather, I said I support (for the first time in my life) many of the positions taken by my union in the current bargaining round.

    That said, I plan to vote to accept because I think York’s offer is a reasonable concession and is a good solution in the short run.

    I never cared for a two-year contract, myself. I never thought the “clawback protection” was winnable, even though I think it’s important. Frankly, I always thought CUPE was trying to fight too many “good fights” in the current round, and thought this was all unwinnable from the outset.

  163. Dray, soapboxing like he said (s)he wouldn't

    “You should at least have the ‘balls’ to put your name down for what you believe in.”

    No, I understand where you’re coming from.

    Well, I would dare not identify myself. It would be problematic for me, politically, both within the union and within my department. I don’t want to upset active CUPE members who know me who have worked hard and sacrificed greatly towards goals they see as altruistic. And, my department is — let’s just say — not very collegial.

    I don’t feel the need to explain myself any more than to say this.

  164. Dray, soapboxing like he said (s)he wouldn't

    And, I’m not afraid of my students. My students know how hard I work.

  165. Andrew

    Interesting. Maybe I misinterpreted your statements as saying you would vote to reject.

    I agree with you about the “too many good fights”. Granted, there were also some terrible ideas in there in my opinion, but the union’s greatest sin was to take on too much.

  166. Worried

    What is everyone’s thoughts about the vote. If this takes place next Monday/ Tuesday, do you think this will be settled next week and we will be in class on January 26th?

  167. Disillusioned

    @ Stef,

    Thanks for replying!

  168. @Worried

    If you want to know the answer to that question, just read all the comments from the last two blog postings. Assuming you are too precious to do that, the general consensus is that CUPE will vote against York. CUPE feels that after they ‘win’ that, York will AUTOMATICALLY give them a lot of money.

  169. oh really...

    I have heard that CUPE’s plan with this forced vote is to turn it down, because then they think York will have to give in to more of their demands. So it’s just more and more games. If they really do turn it down, that means they will have to get back to negotiations again…which could mean another week or so by the time they actually make another offer, CUPE takes it back, etc…

    So it seems like we are out at least 2 more weeks if they vote no? UGH I will be having many fights with profs because I bet exams will fall during “reading week,” when I and many others will be on vacations. THIS SUCKSSSSS

  170. FURIOUS

    I think this year’s going to be canceled. Having this strange gut-feeling that it will… I guess unprecedented things DO happen unexpectedly. I am… absolutely… livid…

  171. 4th Year Student

    They will not cancel the year… we probably wont have summer school. but we will have our fall/winter term.

  172. AndrewB

    Yeah people really need to get this “they need/will cancel the year” out of their head. It isn’t going to happen. Summer school; yes, fall/winter;no chance.

  173. DF

    I want my summer school !!!

  174. @AndrewB

    No chance? I admit it is unlikley; however, I personally feel that saying ‘no chance’ is irresponsible. Again, it is VERY unlikley, but not impossible. All students should get at least a tentative plan of what they are going to do if the years gets canceled.

  175. Jason

    No wonder York made the ratification vote for monday, and tuesday of next week, the temperature is going to drop to -20 the rest of the week. They planned it well, so hopefully strikers will want to settle once and for all…

  176. CHP

    hope strike goes on

  177. rawrz

    @ 4th year student
    I’ve been looking for even part time work and no one is willing to hire me because my availability would be messed up.

    Thanks for your info.

    Just to clarify, the Novotel is directly connected to the subway. Once you go up from the subway platforms, you turn left after the collector booth if your coming from the escalators, or turn right if your exiting from the automated entrances. The entrance to the hotel is on the 2nd floor of the North York Civic Centre.

    For those Union members reading this out there, please go vote on this. I’m sure you didn’t become a teacher for the money. It pays ok, but there are other jobs that pay much more. Most likely you chose to teach because you like to learn, and like to share your knowledge and educate others. I’m not saying your responsible for this, but every single one of you has a bit of power to stop this. Us students chose to go to University to learn (ok fine maybe not all of us but we recognize the NEED to educate ourselves), and you probably teach because you love to learn and teach. Neither one of us are able to do what we want.

    And lastly, I just want to thank those professors and CUPE members who are atleast letting us know what is going on (even if they might be just opinions). From my understanding, you’re not supposed to but if you are I’m pretty sure you don’t like the strike either. And to the others that are challenging these people, please don’t. These professors and TA’s are not obligated to let us know these things regardless of what your opinion is of them. They’re reading this forum and replying to us out of favour, and it is not our right as students to demand anything from them at this time.

  178. Really?

    Wow. We DO need to get back to school. As soon as we find ourselves with idle time, we end up fighting in blog-world over semantics. Yeesh.

  179. Pally Wally


    What about actually “demanding the impossible” – by which I’m referring to the 40% wage increase called for in all the posters up around campus leading to the strike. That to me goes beyond taking on too much, and strides into the camp of poor grasp of reality.
    Not only was this CUPE’s greatest ‘sin’ in my book, it was a clear tactical and PR error that could have been very easily averted. All CUPE had to do was say ‘we SHOULD be asking for this; and all we are asking for are is…’ ; as it stands the Admin spent nearly 2 months making everyone in the union look like children because a few over-privileged people get off playing 60s revolutionary in the name of working class students that actually need these gains in order to survive in this game.

    With that said, as a student that will stand to benefit from a favourable contract – I would hate to have spent 9+weeks of my life idle for gains that will barely cover the cost of the metropass I foolishly bought for November that quickly became useless.

    I hope that CUPE members evaluate the offer on the table and judge for themselves whether it is a good offer or not given these circumstances. It doesn’t look that good to me, but I don’t have to stand in the cold – another pretty stupid move if you ask me.

  180. Cassie

    Here is link to union website that mentions the dates – scroll down to Employer forces ratification vote


    Interesting how York hasn’t posted anything yet.

  181. TRUTH

    As a student, I want to ask all the CUPE members to reject the York’s offer and slap this imperialist in face
    Demand the impossible and break the barriers. These capitalists have been taking your money and treated u like slaves, it’s time to fight it and get the deal that forces them to treat u like human beings
    These nasty capitalist companies have been falling one by one lately. From Lehman Brothers to AIG they have got what they deserved….
    Demand the Impossible. Stay the course and beat this imperliast.

  182. F-Ed Up

    Thanks Cassie!

  183. F-Ed Up

    Just read up… thanks to the others as well…

  184. KAZZA

    I could understand your statements if they were unfounded but as these are the highest paid contract workers is Ontario (at a min) please tell me you basis for making such a bold statement so I may know where you are coming from. As for slavery be careful what you say I dont think people who’s ancestry histroy includes slavery would appreachiate those comments

  185. rawrz

    @ Truth

    It really makes me wonder how much money you make, or rather if you ever worked. These people work part time, and from my knowledge, their pay is about $63 per hour and they’re still complaining about ‘being below poverty line’.

    I don’t know about you, but they make 7 times more than I do each hour, and I’m in debt just like they are. I don’t see why they have the right to complain.

    Not to mention, if their wages increase by a lot, York has to find some way of compensating itself for that cost, either buy cutting down services for students, decreasing subsidies, grants, and scholarships for students, or by increasing student fees by a lot.

    Either you’re not a student, or you don’t feel the pressure from current economic trends, or maybe you’re not even affected by this entire strike and you’re just bored.

    Sorry but I just don’t see where your coming from in this situation. Maybe if you were arguing for people who get paid minimum wage, I might agree with you.

  186. Woot

    I guess we should all be expecting a late next week start or Jan. 26!

  187. Here

    @ woot:

    Careful about expectations…

    By voting no, CUPE is hoping/expecting the university to capitulate and give the union “the impossible”. If there were small – say 2-3% – differences, then that would probably happen. The difference here is much greater – about 10%. Therefore there is less likelihood of a union “victory” through the university giving them everything. But we will see…

    Hopefully, they can agree in the middle or some amount that won’t increase my fees to a level higher than they already are.

  188. rawrz

    I lost faith after the 3rd week or so.
    I don’t think we’ll be going to school for another month or so.

  189. TRUTH

    I don’t make any money as I’m not a TA yet and I don’t know if I ever become a TA since I suck at teaching….
    I do however support CUPE in their journey to get the impossible and fight this imperialistic university who has used education as a hostage to get money from students and use that money to pay big salary to their useless president and push their propaganda
    It’s time for someone to stand up and fight this. CUPE memebrs are sacrificing their own time to stand in this cold weather and fight this modern monster of theft and capitalism

    The time is running out for capitalistic policies and neo-con and conservative governments. World don’t want them anymore….

  190. B

    ^get real.

    How many of the 50,000 students appreciate their time being scarified like this for that ideological anti-capitalist bullshit you’ve listed there?

  191. AndrewB

    “university who has used education as a hostage to get money from students”

    Umm, no, they are providing a service. If you don’t like what one University offers you go to another one. You have a choice.

  192. dsd

    I think this blog should be closed to avoid panic and stupid comments (see all of the above) until the vote results come in.

  193. rawrz

    Totally agree with B.

    Anyone look at the Weather Network website today? They have issued warnings for Tuesday morning as well as Thursday and Friday.

    “Cold Temperatures on the Way
    Once the Clippers have moved out of Southern Ontario, the first of two Arctic air masses will descend. A relatively moist Arctic air mass will cause temperatures to drop beginning Tuesday evening.

    By Thursday, the drier, Continental Arctic air mass will move in pushing temperatures down even further. Friday could be the coldest day with morning temperatures in the – 20’s for most of Southern Ontario.

    During periods of extreme cold, time outside should be limited as frostbite in exposed skin can occur rapidly.”

    Have fun CUPE3903. (May I remind that this is BEFORE windchill.) I know I won’t be outside for more than 10 minutes at a time =].

  194. AndrewB

    CUPE probably won’t be out there anyway. Hell they can’t put together a good picket on a good day anyway.

  195. Unimperessed

    B, you are a shameful example of apathy and selfishness.

  196. B

    and what? Cupe is the ideal model of unselfishness and caring?

    You can throw whatever anti-capitalist, sticking it to neoliberalism motivation behind 3903, but in the end it boils down to two things: power and money.

  197. theowne

    Is the picket still going. I went to York last week and I didn’t see anyone picketing by the entrance.

  198. KAZZA

    They picket on their own terms I think. I live on campus and sometimes they set up early sometimes at 11am and I have not seen them out past 5pm in a while.

  199. Here

    That’s actually one of biggest pet peeves about the strike and the picket lines and the “belief in the cause”.

    If you believe in your cause you picket 24/7. I remember my dad picketing at Stelco from 11pm to 7am. If you wanted your strike pay that’s what you do. These pickets are a joke as is the whole “Che Guevara revolution” thing.

    As it was said above. It’s about power and money. Save the BS for actual life and death causes.

  200. TRUTH

    I did picket for CUPE and I received no money for it. We must sacrifice everything we have in order to make this strike successful. Losing a year or semester is nothing compare to the benefits of victory which is putting down these capitalists

    Majority of these students never show up to class, play with their laptops during the lectures and use doctors note to get away with exams. Now, all of a sudden they care about University. What a lie. Why are you students so eager to become tools for capitalists and York university?

    This is the most important part of your university time. To fight for humans and make things better. You should all be thankful to lose your semester or year. That means you all have contributed to the victory over imperialism

    As someone said : Viva la Revolución
    Go CUPE Go!

  201. 3rd year n counting

    may I ask how you support yourself if you dont make any money? and have you ever made any money?

    @B, with you all the way. more money than power though….. way more money.

    @unimpressed, “shameful example of apathy and selfishness”? im guesssing that will apply to most students who are fed up and dont support cupe. thats ok. im cool with being selfish and apathetic quiety to myself whithout hurting THOUSANDS of other people. it is much better than being selfless to the point where you stop giving a crap about anything or being deep and immersed in some imagined ideal while exercising full apathy toward the rest of the world and its economy…..

    actually cupe is quite more apathetic and absolutely 100 % selfish…. simply bcs they will be the ONLY ones getting something positive out of this facsinating experience……..

  202. Bobert

    can you blame CUPE members for being apathetic? less than 20% of the membership usually shows up to the GMM meetings (about 500 people) to scrutinize the bargaining team comprised of 0.002% of the union (or 10 people), whether or not they end up getting what they want the other 80% get the same contracts

  203. sam

    dropping into rez this Sunday…..hope I don’t meet resistance at the entrance…just wanna get back and into my books in the hope that everything will start up again….will I have trouble at the entrance??

  204. you ruined my year

    i hope CUPE3903 gets ABSOLUTLY NOTHING of which they are asking for
    PS, enjoy picketing tomorrow i hear its going to be -30 with the wind

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