YorkU concerned with the possibility of a failed “Supervised Vote”

 In the latest YorkU update (click here) there seems to be a sense of urgency permeating around the words. This section from the update shows the concern of the possibility of cancelling courses and terms, something that the University has been quite reluctant to even discuss until now.

Why has the University initiated the Supervised Vote?

After 5 months of negotiations that have failed to reach a settlement, it is the University’s assessment that a negotiated settlement with UPE 3903 is not imminent, and the Union has refused to allow their members an opportunity to vote on the University’s offers for settlement. The strike is now entering its 10th week and as it extends further into January, we now face the prospect of putting the integrity of the full summer term in jeopardy. This is not an acceptable situation for our 50,000 students and the University has taken this initiative in an effort to end the strike.

Certainly there is a degree of fear mongering here in an effort to create further public dissidence towards CUPE 3903. Nevertheless, for the University to begin using the word “cancel” is descriptive of the gravity of this situation. For even without such words, fear of course/term cancellation is extremely pervasive. At the end of the update the University included a warning that if the Union membership does not accept this forced ratification then there will be no “immediate end in sight.”

The Supervised Vote: an opportunity to vote on the University’s settlement offers 

A Supervised Vote is a one-time only option for the University to provide an opportunity for employees in each bargaining unit to voteon the University’s settlement offer for that unit.

 

A Supervised Vote is a one-time only option for the University to provide an opportunity for employees in each bargaining unit to voteon the University’s settlement offer for that unit.

A Supervised Vote is a one-time only option for the University to provide an opportunity for employees in each bargaining unit to voteon the University’s settlement offer for that unit.

 

 

These are very charged words and many conclusions may be drawn from them. The first to come to mind is that the University has lossed confidence in the union bargaining team and the negotiations process. Indeed similar words will come from both sides, but you need two teams to play ball.

In any case, this offer of ratification appears to be quite pivotal in the direction of the strike. There are rumours that the provincial liberal party has put forward the possibility of legislating binding arbitration. And that may become necessary, certainly if the either or both sides lose confidence in  negotiating as a means to end this strike.

I remind all readers again, the possibility of the University cancelling current fall/winter/year 2008-2009 courses is highly unlikely. Simply for the fact that it would cost York enormous amounts of money in refund for tuition, certain legal action, damage to its reputation and future enrollment. Fear mongerers are ubiquitous throughout the internet and certainly here at YorkStrike2008, who spread such notions. Please remember that such an outcome is far from us at this time.

 

In solidarity with undergraduate students,

YorkStrike2008

 

 

 

 

Advertisements

111 Comments

Filed under Uncategorized

111 responses to “YorkU concerned with the possibility of a failed “Supervised Vote”

  1. strikeliveon

    [edited by moderator]
    i heard tony soprano lives in jersey…

    * I kid I kid*

  2. FUBAR

    FUBAR.

    …nuff said. sigh…

  3. Sam

    Hey… I just saw this on the “Unit 2 Website” link on the CUPE website.

    http://cupe3903unit2.cupe.ca/

    Check out the first message on the page (from today – Jan. 10th)

    What do you guys think of this? I absolutely refuse to pay an additional $20/month when I have already paid my tuition!! PLUS – why would we want to help support these people so that they can prolong the strike?? Is this supposed to be some kind of a joke?! hahaha

    @Yorkstrike2008: if there is a more appropriate place to post this, please feel free to move it… I just didn’t know where else to put it.

  4. theowne

    W….T….F….

    Somebody please tell that person what we undergraduates think of that idea. They screwed us over once and now they want to CHARGE us for it?

  5. Nikki

    Ok I’m confused. The union had rejected forced ratification–it doesn’t want its members to vote?? Someone explain!

  6. pass/fail

    ^ no i think they r basically saying that even if the vote happens the union will still win since all of its members disagree with the latest offer york has produced

  7. Saddi

    there are no words for how pissed off I am right now.

  8. lol. I just had to laugh at this one.

  9. CUPE member with child

    Qudos to Yorkstrike2008 for his fine assessment of York’s threat to cancel the term. While I know that he is far from supportive of the union’s side which is certainly his perogative, I commend him for being able to see through the smoke-screen.

  10. Saddi

    SO vino you wanna take some classes at Ryerson with me? lol 😥

  11. CUPE member with child

    Hahaha, I see someone has hijacked my handle in a previous thread, claiming that the fall term will be cancelled. Maybe there’s more posts from the hijacker but I haven’t scrolled through them all. Oh well, I guess there’s no way I can prevent that from happening.

    Anybody who’s read my posts consistently knows that I’m not into fear-mongering.

    No chance any terms will be cancelled.

  12. undergrad

    How did these people ever graduate from college to become T.A’s? They are so stupid it is amazing. I officially have no respect for these stupid whiny T.A’s. Get it through your thick skulls that you are students and the money that you make is amazing. As an undergrad, I pay tuition too and have to pay rent and pay for my food but no one is handing me the amount of money that you people receive. I would love to have your job as the amount of work you do is minuscule in relation to the money you receive.

  13. Dd

    Then again the union is counting on that no chance the term will be canceled. Not like York will capitulate to all their demands otherwise…

    Just saying, most of this speculation on this issue is baseless and pointless. Only way to know is wait out and see the outcome of the vote.

  14. CUPE member with child

    undergrad, perhaps you should organize to fight for the elimination of tuition fees and the restoration of grants for all undergrants (there never used to be ‘student loans’ you know – it was all grants! You could also try voting for political parties that aim to implement similar policies.

    If the lot you received is bad then stand up and fight – don’t just complain that everyone else should have it as bad as you have it.

  15. @ saddi

    That doesn’t seem like a bad idea at all! lol.

  16. Mike S

    It has almost gotten to the point where I want the term canceled, my money refunded and to just start fresh in September. At this point they can’t guarantee me a real year, it will heavily cut into my summer earnings and I can’t get a full time job now because I may go back any second and employers know it.

    I don’t know why I waste my time.

  17. All this time I thought the union was pulling my nuts. Now it seems York wants a piece of me as well.

  18. Student Victim

    CUPE member with child – please do not fight your fight on my time and on my money. regardless of the fact that you are the best paid in Ontario, you want more; you can demand it when you are not screwing over 50 000 students.

  19. cancan11

    I’m so tired of people just fighting and complaining in this forum. I just want solid information and not “I HATE YORK AND CUPE AND THIS STRIKE AAAAAH!” messages. Just want some solitary info and opinions about what’s going on and what might happen.

    The strike is going on… just accept it and move on… bleh

  20. Andrew

    @CUPE Member with Child

    I’m wondering how you expect this to play out. If your answer is something like: union votes no, then the admin runs back to the bargaining table and capitulates, I would find such an outcome surprising. The admin has run a remarkably good strike so far, and for them to walk right into the same trap as in the last strike would be uncharacteristic of them — not to mention, why bother paying all those high-priced labor consultants, if this is what they’re telling you to do? I have a strong hunch that it’s not going to end up like last time, and that the admin has cards which haven’t been played yet.

  21. CUPE member with child

    Andrew,

    York has played the game well in the media, but lets face it, that was attempted to indirectly break the will of the union so that they’d fight amongst themselves. As I’ve explained in other posts, it hasn’t worked on that level at all. Instead it’s galvanized the union together because we know our demands and the university’s real offer better than what they’re falsely claiming in the media.

    So the strike is either ‘won’ or ‘lost’ by the will of the union to hold out until its demands are met. Judging by Thursday’s vote, the will of the union is very strong (and yes, I understand that a very significant portion didn’t show up for the meeting).

    So, if the union does shoot down the forced rat, what other cards does the university have? Wait even longer? Cancel a term like they’re threatening?

  22. steve

    @ Saadi
    HELL yes I wasnt TO TAke Clases W/ u @ ryerson! jus gimme ur e-mail or number n we can talk about it 😀

  23. Andrew

    @CUPE Member with Child

    I agree with you that the union is very likely to vote “no”. But if I, a non-manager and non-expert, can see that, then the people on the 9th floor should also be smart enough to see it. In which case, what I can’t wrap my mind around is why they would bother calling a forced rat that they know they will lose: it would just feed into the union’s narrative and hand them an even bigger victory than mere capitulation.

    My personal thinking was that they would package the forced rat with a threat of something like a cancelled term, or resumption of classes without CUPE, or something similar that would make the union nervous about voting “no”. I’m also thinking that back-to-work legislation might still be in the offing.

    We haven’t heard anything like that yet, but we’ve got nine days to find out. Should be interesting.

  24. York Student

    @Saadi

    Count me in too! lol…

  25. mat

    does any one when will they vote?

  26. flushafleshfarm

    this stuff is getting pretty damn transparent

  27. Here

    @ mat:

    That’s not determined. It will be chosen by the Ministry of Labour with input from 3903 and the administration. Look for an announcement Monday or Tuesday.

  28. The Man With The Plan

    lol.. the best option i see right now is to cancel the year so every one can get themself together, get back to work etc etc, and give a discount on next year’s tuition.

  29. Soraya

    “cancan11
    January 10, 2009 at 4:40 pm
    I’m so tired of people just fighting and complaining in this forum. I just want solid information and not “I HATE YORK AND CUPE AND THIS STRIKE AAAAAH!” messages. Just want some solitary info and opinions about what’s going on and what might happen.

    The strike is going on… just accept it and move on… bleh”

    Couldn’t have said it better myself, especially the last part.

  30. Bobert

    @CUPE e-picketers

    So let me ask you is there a rip cord behind you guys or something, when we’d like you to continuously use your talking points? or is there some sort of hand puppet slot?

    Seriously CUPE Member with kid, and Pally Wally, and Dray, Cupe Patel, and anyone else who’s a union member stop continuously feeding us the same lines, every time someone comes in here to challenge you by posting any sort of informed commentary you come back here roughly 12 hours later responding to such comments with yet again another talking point

    Goodness knows there’s an extremely alarming sense of intellectual integrity as evidenced in the qualities of your replies, which you answer everything with “of course the result will be in our favour” (which if it really was we’d all be back weeks ago)

    your talking points always always gloss is not only an oversimplification of reality they usually gloss over very key facts, and many of your analogies and sob stories are transparently disingenuous, much of public opinion not being on your side is evidence of this.

    So if you’d like and end to this, with people on your side can you at least try to get out of your bubble world? I’ll assure you its really quite comfortable once you start considering the other point of views in your arguments

    p.s hopefully you won’t read this and be tempted with throwing a knee jerk ideological label at me, because I make every effort to understand both sides of this strike,

    I don’t believe one side is more at fault than the other but you can’t win a labour negotiation by consistently accusing the other side of being a buffoon and conscientiously deciding not to compromise.

  31. CUPE member with child

    haha, Bobert.

    Some assumptions that you make and are wrong about:

    1) That I’m an “e-picketer”. As I’ve said before and i’ll say it again – I’ve not gotten any money whatsoever from discussing the strike on this website or any other, nor will I ever get any money for this. I will ask though, without assuming an answer: who is your employer?

    2) I’ve never said “of course the result will be in favour…” I’ve said that I am confident that we will shoot down the ratification vote, but nobody is certain of anything. I’m also willing to take a bet on it.

    Anything else you’d like to ask?

  32. Bobert

    if you realized the context and the tone of my comment, you would realize I was being general… and thanks for proving my point!

  33. CUPE member with child

    Actually I will say one thing that I believe is certain:

    York will not cancel a term. Do the financial math in your own head if you don’t believe me.

  34. Bobert

    1) I am an undergraduate
    2) that wasn’t intended to be a direct quote, it was an interpreted paraphrasing

  35. CUPE member with child

    @Andrew,

    Back to Work Legislation is the only thing that I can see that would prevent a negotiated settlement within a week or so of voting down the forced ratification. Perhaps York is counting on that, but I’d be very surprised if it happened and even more surprised if York is actually relying on it.

  36. Clueless

    Honestly I do not know what to think about this forced rat. My TA’s have been e-mailing me, reminding me to continue with the readings and assignments etc. They have also stated that they never wanted this strike and more members are fed up with it. Does that mean that there is a good chance of CUPE members who are tired of not geting paid and will vote yes just to get back to work?

  37. CUPE member with child

    @Bobert,

    Some advice:

    As a good teacher or TA will tell you – aim for accuracey in your statements. Don’t use quotation marks if they aren’t direct quotes, especially if you’re attributing them to people you’ve identified by name, handle, etc.

    And last, don’t ever intentionally misrepresent yourself or anybody else. As the wise always remember – it’s easy to get in, but a hell of a job getting out.

  38. CUPE member with child

    Clueless,

    There are members who disagree with the strike as well as others who will vote yes to the forced rat for a variety of reasons. There is no way to know ahead of time for sure if they will outnumber those who will vote ‘no’. The GMM on Thursday was the best ‘litmus test’ we’ve had so far and those members overwhelmingly rejected the university’s offer. Therefore I am confident that we will vote against it, but of course cannot say for certain.

  39. Clueless

    Thank you Cupe member with child!

  40. AndrewB

    Regardless if you are getting paid or not, you are still an e-picketer. It is fairly obvious in how you speak. It is fairly obvious because if you were not, would there be any reason to have your name as CUPE MEMBER with child.

    Hell I already called you out before on your name “with child” because I know you are looking for sympathy.

  41. Here

    @ CMWC:

    Why would you be surprised? I actually think in the long run it’s the financially prudent move. Consider that in back to work legislation, the parties will be forced into binding arbitration. Given the economic conditions and other labour factors – such as other settlements with other unions, inside and outside of York – I believe the arbitrator would side with York.

    The only saving grace for the union is that the legislature does not resit until February 17th which places the summer term at risk. I agree that fall and winter will proceed but at some point the calendar runs out. I can’t see a special sitting “just” for this conflict. It’s important to us. How important it is outside of York, I don’t know.

    You do not negotiate in a vacuum.

  42. AndrewB

    If I stand in the ACC in Toronto and ask “Who is the best NHL team”, I’m fairly sure I know what the answer would be. Just like we all knew what the answer would be at your GMM.

    Of course CUPE is going to continue using that vote as “evidence”, yet there is so many holes in that evidence, it just doesn’t stand up anymore.

  43. Andrew

    @CUPE Member with Child

    You mentioned bets. I propose the following:

    IF all three units of CUPE 3903 reject York’s proposed settlement in the supervised vote, then:

    The two sides will NOT arrive at a tentative agreement by negotiation within fourteen (14) days of the supervised vote.

    This bet is invalid if one or more of the units accept the proposed settlement in the supervised vote.

    This bet remains valid, and will be interpreted to be won by me, if a settlement is imposed by legislation within the 14 day period.

    I bet the amount of ten dollars ($10) on the above proposition. If you accept, may I suggest that we each designate a charity, and the loser will donate the $10 to the winner’s charity?

  44. CUPE member with child

    Andrew,

    I’ll take that bet.

    Just to be clear:

    You’re saying that in the event of a ‘no’ vote across all 3 units there won’t be a negotiated settlement within 14 days?

    And my betted postion is that if the forced rat is shot down there will be a negotiated settlement within 14 days.

    If that’s the bet and the 10 bucks goes to charity then I’m in.

  45. Bobert

    @CUPE member with child

    “As a good teacher or TA will tell you – aim for accuracey in your statements. Don’t use quotation marks if they aren’t direct quotes, especially if you’re attributing them to people you’ve identified by name, handle, etc.”

    Wow the PhD candidate scolds the undergraduate student for making a typo that I readily acknowledged and apologized for.

    “And last, don’t ever intentionally misrepresent yourself or anybody else.”

    When have I ever intentionally misrepresented myself? and I challenge anyone else who you claim I have misrepresented to say otherwise (a genuine open invitation, and I’ll respectfully apologize if I am proven wrong)

    Unlike some people here no claim that I have ever made has been proven to be untrue, and any of it can easily be found elsewhere by anyone that looks for it.

  46. I

    I don’t think there is really a point in arguing back and forth because obviously, this will not solve this MADNESS!!

    Can someone, anyone, just provide us (confused and angry undergraduates) with some facts of what’s going to happen and what’s going on???

    i am so desperate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I need answers! please!

  47. fracas

    not related to the york strike but might be of interest to some – the striking transit workers in ottawa were also forced to vote on an offer that their bargaining team rejected (the vote was yesterday). 75% of those who voted rejected the deal and the strike continues. what’s interesting about that is that the main strike issue apparently affects only a minority of union members, yet the membership was willing to not only go out on strike over it (and stay out for over a month now), but also rejected an opportunity to end the strike through a secret ballot in a forced vote. might be some indication of how unpopular forced ratification is.

  48. Dd

    “Can someone, anyone, just provide us (confused and angry undergraduates) with some facts of what’s going to happen and what’s going on???”

    On Monday the Ministry is expected to announce a forced ratification vote date. This will not be held immediately. There are currently no scheduled talks between YorkU and Cupe.

  49. flushafleshfarm

    I just had the pleasure of speaking with a GA at a family function. He/she has not been active within the union in any way throughout the strike. This person still gets a vote. This person will be voting ‘yes’ and claims that ALL other union members that he/she is in contact with will do the same. There is nothing in it for the majority of these people with regards to getting a better deal. They are students and just want to go back to school.

    I’m not suggesting or predicting anything in particular. It is interesting to think about the numbers though. 500 average attendance at the GMMs. That is not an overwhelmingly representative sample.

    Neither result would surprise me at this point.

  50. yorkstrike2008

    @CUPE member with child

    I am supportive of the Union members and their cause, but not the Union executive or the bargaining team.

    How can I say that I do not support my 57 year old history professor who has taught at York for 25 years, holds a Ph.D, is the author of three books and numerous articles and makes peanuts without even knowing if he will make those peanuts consistently in the next year, when he wants to make a decent income consistently?

    I understand the situation that many CUPE members are in, but they cannot hold labour disruptions of this magnitude when there are 50,000 people who are being so terribly effected by it. I am no moral authority, but this is immoral. It is immoral and indeed wrong when the improvements you seek can be made over time without needing to destroy 50,000 professional lives.

    It needs to be driven home that only 22% of the Union voted for this strike, and those who did vote for it do not hide their militancy and intimidating practices towards anyone who does not hold congruent opinions. For all of these liberal arts faculty who act as such, you would think they had read On Liberty by Mill at some point in there academic careers and would know that no one should claim that his conscience is of greater value or superiority than another’s.

  51. Andrew

    @CUPE Member with Child

    That’s the bet. My designated charity is the United Way of Canada.

  52. theowne

    WOAH TEN WHOLE DOLLARS

  53. Andrew

    And to be clear, I expect to win, but it does not fill me with any great happiness.

  54. Andrew

    @theowne: But CMwC is impoverished!!! 🙂

  55. @yorkstrike2008

    Your comment about your history teacher is quite inaccurate. You claim that he makes ‘peanuts’ and doesn’t know if he will make those ‘peanuts’ next year. I am unsure of the exact salary of your history professor, so I will not comment on how much he makes. However, the claim that he does not know how much he is going to make the following year is just plain absurd.

    Contract positions are awarded based on senority. There is no good reason to suggest that a contract professor of 20 years would be without a job the next year unless the entire history department got large cutbacks. York can’t just hire some new up and comer over that 57 year old history professor of yours.

    And just because he authored three books does not mean that he deserved tenure. Anyone can author a book. I am a fourth year law and society major. I am going for what is quite possibly the most useless degree at York, and even I could author a book if I really wanted to. However, just cause a book has been published does not mean that it is any good. Again, I do not know this professor, so I can’t say whether or not his books are good.

    So to reiterate. Contract professors do have job security. Yeah, applying for a new job every year is a pain in the ass, but big deal. In conclusion? Cupe3903 has no demands worth any consideration at all.

    Go York admin!!

  56. Jay Sean

    This is awkward…..quite rubbish if you as me. (British accent)

  57. yorkstrike2008

    @YorkIsAwesome

    Indeed he has seniority, but he has no security on whether he will receive a similar course load from year to year. Since he must resign every year, he may be offered a reduced course load and thus a reduced income in the next year.

    Try signing yourself into a 25 yr mortgage when you don’t know if you will make $60,000 or $45,000 or $35,000 from year to year. How can you live like that?

    It is one thing to write a book, and quite another to have it published by academic publishing houses.

  58. Jay Sean

    check out my song “ride it” it will help you take a break from this strike

  59. CUPE member with child

    @ Andrew,

    ok, bet’s on. My designated charity is Toronto Sick Kids Hospital.

    @ yorkstrike2008.

    Thanks for the thoughtful and well articulated comment. It’s exceeds the standards of most other posts on this site. Of course, though, you likely knew that I’d respond in the hopes of showing you what I deem to be misconceptions in either your thinking, the ‘system’ that has allowed this to happen, or both.

    1) you indicate that the “improvements [cupe] seek[s] can be made over time without needing to destroy 50,000 professional lives.” Your argument so far against the strike rests on this foundation.

    Cupe’s only significant leveraging power for negotiating a contract vis-a-vis its employer that would benefit the professor you speak of and all cupe members is through the withdrawl of its labour. Otherwise we’d be solely relying on the benevolence of the university – a university that has already put the professor you speak of in that position. Contracts aren’t always progressive, they can just as easily worsen employee positions. The refusal of York to include SRCs in the contract on the eve of the this strike (let alone after the strike began), when it has been so fundamental to gains in past contracts, is evidence of the possibility of regression in relation to the professor you mention. If you think I’m wrong on this then please explain to me how “the improvements [cupe] seek[s] can be made over time” without going on strike. We’d all like to know.

    I would also say that it is hyperbole when you use the word ‘destroying’ in the context that you did.

    2) The “militancy” and “intimidating practices” you speak of is based on heresay. Yes, I’ve heard from, for example cupedoll, about how she’s intimidated from going to meetings and that the rest of us are ideologues. Nonetheless she goes and speaks her mind, just as she does on here. So far, every indication I’ve come accross suggests that whenever democratic votes don’t go her way she plays the ‘intimidation’ card. The strike vote was a secret ballot. If these so called ‘intimidated’ members cared enough to avoid the strike then why didn’t they vote?

    3) If you’re interested in utility theory, as I take it you are from your reference to the younger Mill, then might I suggest you move on to Bentham who is by far the more sophisticated thinker of the two. His best work is “The Constitutional Code” which explains the merrits of democracy, via the public tribunal, as being the best forum for deciding the will of the people, i.e. the means of tabulating the consciousness of its members in order to direct action. The rights of minorities (such as those who claim to be intimidated) who Mill so nobelly defends have as their best safeguard the Constitution of the political unit in question. In the case of 3903 it is our union’s by-laws. In the case of the right to strike in Canada, it is the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Nevertheless, these are historical documents, i.e. they are historically founded and are subject to change and interpretation throughout history – past, present and future. If you know of another, better, process by which to proceed then please let us all know.

  60. CHP

    Screw York…they are the real villains here

  61. fork

    i wrote a song to vent my fustrations about this dumbfuckery….enjoy…

    CUPE (3903)
    **based on “Ruby”- The Kaiser Cheifs**

    Let it never be said/that the strike will not end
    ‘Cos there’s so much distress occupying my head

    There is nothing I need/’cept maybe a Tylenol 3
    50,000 of us/ wont you just listen to me?

    CUPE, CUPE, CUPE, CUPE
    Do ya, do ya, do ya, do ya
    Know what you’re doin’, doin’ to me?
    CUPE, CUPE, CUPE, CUPE

    Due to this strike/ classes have been cancelled
    And for these past two months/our lives have be held
    ‘Cos all that you care/is for a wage increase
    and im left wondering ’bout my big tuition fees

    CUPE, CUPE, CUPE, CUPE
    Do ya, do ya, do ya, do ya
    Know what you’re doin’, doin’ to me?
    CUPE, CUPE, CUPE, CUPE

    Could it be/could it be that you’re screwing with me?
    And you dont really want to agree?
    Could it be/could it be that you’re screwing with me?
    And you dont really want to agree?

    CUPE, CUPE, CUPE, CUPE
    Do ya, do ya, do ya, do ya
    Know what you’re doin’, doin’ to me?
    CUPE, CUPE, CUPE, CUPE

    CUPE, CUPE, CUPE, CUPE
    Do ya, do ya, do ya, do ya
    Know what you’re doin’, doin’ to me?
    CUPE, CUPE, CUPE, CUPE

  62. Roon'd

    lol @ fork. Epic stuff. I guess the extra free time is bringing out the creative side of people x)

  63. HBK

    Sigh……… Us students are the virgin anus, and this strike is a spiked dildo.

  64. yorkstrike2008

    1) If you look at the excellent compensation, job security and benefits that Ontario teachers have and how they have done this, CUPE may abstract its model. Of course the only method of pressure the Union has is by withdrawing its labour from York. However, Ontario Teachers have reached where they are in much harsher labour environments than 3903 is in right now. The province has never been shy to legislate teachers back to work after a couple of weeks and the Ray and Harris governments were incredibly malicious towards public education and teachers. Harris tried to steal their Pension Plan since it is so large. As such, they rarely have strikes that last more than a month, I believe the longest was in 1970 something and it lasted 38 days. They have never held a strike , to the best of my knowledge, for two months twice in the same decade. Their strikes usually last about 2 weeks and they gradually increased their wages and power. I do recognise that it is a game of diminishing results with inflation and changing economic times, nonetheless teachers in Ontario have somehow managed to make up to $90,000 excluding benefits with this new 12% over 4 year contract.

    2) Oh come on now CUPE, don’t be coy with me. I’ve been to those Senate meetings and I have and so have friends cornered and intimidated by the wandering gangs of CUPE members who look like they walked out the jungle in Panama in the 1980s.

    3) “His best work is “The Constitutional Code” which explains the merrits of democracy, via the public tribunal, as being the best forum for deciding the will of the people, i.e. the means of tabulating the consciousness of its members in order to direct action.”

    I’ve read Bentham, of course. I would respond to your position with Ronald Dworkin’s work in the 1970s where he discussed the pervasiveness of moral positions, that were not really moral positions and the democratic implications. For several reasons, that I will not get into here, unless one is quite versed in the foundations of his conviction and may consistently act as such, his position cannot be taken as a moral one and it is highly likely that he is simply parroting his neighbour’s convictions.

    If I were to say that gay marriage should not be allowed. Unless I could provide reasons that satisfy requirements of argument and consistently apply the the identified moral principle to all my opinions and actions I cannot be said to adhere to this principle. My conviction that gay marriage should not be allowed cannot be taken as a moral one for I do not even fully understand it, and therefore my opinion cannot be constitutive of the moral atmosphere or position of the community. It remains all too likely, that people are following like sheep or parrots and that their stated positions may not be what they believe or what they would believe if they were to understand a moral position and consent to it.

    I remind you that Democracy is only a model of function, it alone is not a normative model nor a moral filter.

    I have to get back to readings. Good discussion we had here CUPE member with child 🙂

  65. student

    Can everyone just stop making personal attacks and picking at the wording and typos of all the comments? I’m getting tired of reading through these posts looking for good information only to find rant after rant. We don’t need to hear about Mill or Bentham, Ray or Harris, or anything unrelated to the actual strike.

    There is really no point in speculating how the forced ratification will turn out. There is no way of knowing how many people will turn out and which side the rest of the members who did not attend the last GMM meeting is leaning towards. The strike is still on and as frustrating as it is, all we can really do now is wait for the results.

    Everyone needs to take a step back and make the best use of their time in the meantime, even if the strike is messing with our abilities to schedule our time and make plans. Do something productive with your time and vent your frustration into something positive instead of just arguing and pissing each other off.

  66. Jimmy

    All I wanna know is WHEN the vote is taking place.

    Certainly somebody from CUPE on this site has been informed about when and where to vote so they must know the dates at least.

  67. Dray, responding to Bobert

    @Bobert:

    You wrote: “Seriously CUPE Member with kid, and Pally Wally, and Dray, Cupe Patel, and anyone else who’s a union member stop continuously feeding us the same lines, … you come back here roughly 12 hours later responding to such comments with yet again another talking point”

    I’m not an ePicketer — or whatever. I’m not paid to be here. I have no talking points. I don’t represent CUPE. I just tell people what I think is going on from my own perspective.

    CUPE 3903 is not organized like the Borg. We don’t share the same thoughts, act in unison or even agree on the same things. We mostly just yell at each other and, somehow, manage to organize ourselves just enough to engage in collective bargaining.

  68. Here

    @ Jimmy:

    As I wrote earlier, the date has not been set yet. Wait for Monday or Tuesday for an announcement by the Ministry of Labour. They now hold control over the date of the ratification vote.

  69. Bobert

    @dray

    “CUPE 3903 is not organized like the Borg. We don’t share the same thoughts, act in unison or even agree on the same things. We mostly just yell at each other and, somehow, manage to organize ourselves just enough to engage in collective bargaining.”

    Its pretty clear there from some of the posts in here that there are diverging views, but what is clear is that so much of what you read in here has been repeated over and over again, which after awhile becomes difficult to distinguish from the official union line.

    Believe me I don’t intend to make any personal attacks, if I offended you then I apologize for it, because the official Cupe blogs open to the public expressly disables commentary this website is thus a good opportunity to actually hear what you guys think, but please try to avoid the circular nature of some of the commentary here this strike has gotten nasty enough already.

  70. YorkDelivers

    I am at my wits end with this strike. Being an international student who is in approximately $100,000 in debt, I simply cannot afford to pay my apartment rental anymore. I am supposed to be graduating this year but if the semester does not continue as planned I have no choice but to live on the street or return home without my education and a penny to my name.

    I understand the value of my degree is already diminished by this bloody circus act but at least it gives me some means to repay my debts.

    York, Cupe and the province of Ontario should be ashamed.

  71. clennis

    the quality of your education may or may not be diminished (right now the ball’s in the administrations court to reschedule class hours) but you can and should rest assured that you will complete your course work this year.
    there’s no reason to believe otherwise.

  72. clennis

    “you can’t win a labour negotiation by consistently accusing the other side of being a buffoon and conscientiously deciding not to compromise.”

    truer words were never spoken about the strike…

  73. A neighbour, who is also a tenured professor at York, has been sitting at home all this time collecting her paycheque from York. Something is definitely wrong here.

  74. aguyuno

    I like how cupe w/ child has been called out on her emotion mongering pity hope name 3 different times now (twice by AndrewB, once by me), comes here and rants about how she doesn’t get paid for the support (Yeah, okay) she throws towards CUPE here, and then expects us to believe like she isn’t begging for pity.

    And then refuses to respond to us when we call her out on her bullshit name. Hilarious.

    Honestly, I recommend to everyone to not even respond to her (or his. But I really don’t care enough to put any thought at ALL into her post, let along into the gender of the person) comments in the future. Feeding e-picketers is worse than feeding trolls, because they honest to God believe they’re in the right with their opinionated BS, and their willingness to gain support through non-morally correct ways. You’d have better luck convincing a hard core evangelical that there is no God.

  75. demarche

    @ miss dee

    I’m also a professor at York, and I can tell you that your neighbour is an unusual case. I and the other profs in my area are on campus all the time, and in fact we’re getting an enormous amount of research done now that classes are shut down.

    All the profs I know are very upset about the strike, and it’s almost all we talk about. It’s awful what students are being put through for reasons that have nothing to do with them. Also, York is the university where we’re planning on spending the next 20 to 40 years of our lives, and seeing its future compromised like this is just depressing.

    (Lest anyone bring up the 1997 faculty strike to accuse me of hypocrisy: I wasn’t at York then, it sounds like it was just as awful, and a majority of the profs I know think it was a disaster.)

  76. fenn

    Miss Dee, nothing is wrong – fyi – it is the admin who has cancelled classes – that is why tenured profs are still getting paid – they are also doing the other 60% of their job in the interim (service and research)…. and eventually everyone, including ‘tenured profs’ will have to teach all these cancelled classes – currently, tenured profs aren’t on strike although their contract is coming up for negotiation right after the cupe one is settled…(something to new to worry about?)

    also – i really appreciate the informative posts from cupe-members (or e-picketers as some of you call them) irrespective of their political trajectory – without their informational input about concrete developments related to the strike, this would just be a useless site with endless repetitive narcissistic whining ….

    Miss Dee
    January 11, 2009 at 4:24 am
    A neighbour, who is also a tenured professor at York, has been sitting at home all this time collecting her paycheque from York. Something is definitely wrong here.

  77. @ demarche

    Thank you for sharing that with me. It makes me feel a little better. I would have thought that professors would be busy with research and writing. I guess it depends on your area because this is not the situation for all.

  78. anonymous

    I had heard that if there is no ratification by the 16th, that classes will be canceled, this does not seem likely at all and I just wanted to verify it. thank you!

  79. Andrew

    I’m also a prof. I’m sitting in front of my laptop on this sunny Sunday morning pounding out a paper, which is due on Wednesday! It never ends!

  80. Lola

    @fork

    i wanna see it on Youtube!!

  81. EndIt

    Oops, wrong thread. I could have sworn Pally Wally said he was a CUPE member. So he must be getting paid to picket on the line at York instead of e-picketing here?

  82. Dray, responding to Bobert

    @Bobert:

    You wrote: “so much of what you read in here has been repeated over and over again, which after awhile becomes difficult to distinguish from the official union line.”

    That just means we actually BELIEVE the “official” union line.

    Many of us have different reasons for supporting our union. What it mainly boils down to for most of us, though, is the fact that York refuses to address systemic problems concerning individual graduate students or contract faculty unless CUPE 3903 is involved. And — even then — they often won’t even acknowledge our concerns until CUPE has a strike mandate.

    For example, as a Science graduate student, whenever I get a TA wage raise or win a scholarship, I don’t actually see any more money at the end of the day. And I’m not referring to tuition. York actually TAKES AWAY the extra money by scaling back another part of my funding. (Yes, even with most scholarships, such as the York Entrance Scholarship and external scholarships like the OGSST or those offered by private, non-governmental agencies! No, they DON’T tell you about this in your Letter of Admission) For YEARS, we’ve been trying to address this through our graduate programmes and FGS — but they wouldn’t even talk to us. Then CUPE finally made “clawback protection” one of its demands in bargaining. Now, many Science students, for the first time in my memory, back their union.

    “Because the official Cupe blogs open to the public expressly disables commentary this website is thus a good opportunity to actually hear what you guys think…”

    That’s why many are paid to talk to you 24/7 (via Facebook, not this blog, and I’m not one such person). ”

    “but please try to avoid the circular nature of some of the commentary here.”

    There’s nothing “circular” about anything I’ve said. If you mean that I repeat what other’s have said — well — I repeat (circularly) that we are not Borg. It just means we actually believe this.

  83. Andrew

    @Dray

    I’m a prof. In my department, large awards such as OGS or NSERC are indeed clawed back, but the recipient is paid a bonus of up to $10k per year, which is something like half the award.

    Personally, I make it clear that applying for major external scholarships is expected of my graduate students (regardless of clawbacks), in much the same way that grant applications are expected of me (the university takes a considerable percentage of those too, around 40%, in the form of overhead charges; the rationale being that the university has to provide basic needs like space and electricity for my lab).

    I agree that it’s unfair for the university to claw back 100% of external scholarships, because that removes the individual student’s incentive for excellence. However, it’s not clear to me that it’s fair to allow the student to keep 100% of the scholarship either. With a scholarship, you have less of a need for an RAship or TAship to support yourself. That funding is finite, and if you don’t need it, it could be redirected towards another student who does need it. Equivalently, that funding can be freed up to create another spot for a graduate student. I think letting the recipient keep half the scholarship, as in my department, is a reasonable compromise.

    I think you will also find that clawbacks are very common at other universities. It certainly happened at U of T, where I did my graduate studies.

  84. Dray, responding to Andrew

    “… I make it clear that applying for major external scholarships is expected of my graduate students (regardless of clawbacks), in much the same way that grant applications are expected of me.”

    Yes, I know that FGS likes to compare scholarships to research grants. They are not comparable. Recall that a scholarship is designed to be an incentive to be excellent, not to subsidize the academic department’s graduate student funding, whereas a research grant is not an incentive but a means to carry on a research programme.

    “the university takes a considerable percentage of [my grants] too, around 40%, in the form of overhead charges; the rationale being that the university has to provide basic needs like space and electricity for my lab”

    That doesn’t happen in my department (yes, I am certain) so I’m baffled why this would happen in your department. Recall that operations is paid from tuition and provincial matching funds, so I’m baffled by your comment. (Students should wonder what their tuition money pays for, then.)

    “With a scholarship, you have less of a need for an RAship or TAship to support yourself.”

    You’re joking, right? I think you’re joking.

    “However, it’s not clear to me that it’s fair to allow the student to keep 100% of the scholarship either. That funding is finite, and if you don’t need it, it could be redirected towards another student who does need it.”

    Not fair? WHAT? Who says I don’t need it?? Let’s see: when I last won a large scholarship and didn’t see a penny, I was living in Assiniboine road with cockroaches. It’s all I could afford, and my landlord (York University) refused to clean the buildings properly or otherwise address the cockroach problem. (Since then, I’ve learned how to find other money without my department finding out, so that I can actually make ends meet for once.)

    “Equivalently, that funding can be freed up to create another spot for a graduate student.”

    Ahh. So the awards I won for my own academic excellence should subsidize enrolment of weaker into my department’s graduate programme (i.e. over-enrolment). I see now.

    “I think you will also find that clawbacks are very common at other universities. It certainly happened at U of T, where I did my graduate studies.”

    Well, UofT actually have clawback protection in their collective agreement, so that shouldn’t have happened.

    So, F*CK YOU, asshole!

  85. Dray, responding to Andrew

    I hope others on this list can get a sense from Andrew’s post precisely how graduate students are treated by York University.

    “it’s not clear to me that it’s fair to allow the student to keep 100% of the scholarship”

    That’s exemplary of the attitude at York towards graduate students.

    If thinking like this about graduate funding didn’t exist at York, there would be no strike today.

  86. Dray, responding to Andrew

    Andrew does point out rightly that York is not the only place with this insulting, demeaning position on graduate funding.

    Hence 2010.

  87. Dray, responding to Andrew

    (and I don’t even like this 2010, business. Thanks, Andrew, for reminding me of the reasons for it.)

  88. demarche

    @ dray

    I’m afraid you don’t really know what you’re talking about. That’s fine, but then to swagger around on your moral high horse, and tell a prof to fuck off, safely anonymous, is a bit much, don’t you think?

    (1) As Andrew says, many grants to professors have a part (overhead) that the University takes. Some do, and some don’t and maybe you’ve only come across ones that don’t. But if you haven’t seen this, then you just haven’t been around enough to be telling profs how things work.

    (2) The role of university funding is to help graduate students (*students*) through their training. So if some students are able to secure external scholarships, why shouldn’t the University *partly* reduce their funding in order to help other students more? This is the way virtually every university operates, and it’s fair and reasonable.

  89. M

    I am tired of sitting at home, reviewing my books over and over again, just on my to work, I heard on cbc news, that Ontario Correctional Service could go on strike, since correctional service is an essential service they can not totaly walk out of the job, like cupe did, my question is, if, keeping criminals in jail is essential service, why educating law abiding citizens who pay for the food stamps of criminals is not an essential service ?

  90. Dray, responding to Andrew

    “I’m afraid you don’t really know what you’re talking about. ”

    Really? You think I don’t know about my own experience?

    I realize I was harsh with Andrew, but the nerve he hit is the one that projects to the neuron that triggers anxiety when I see a piece of lint because I think it’s a cockroach.

    “Some do, and some don’t and maybe you’ve only come across ones that don’t. But if you haven’t seen this, then you just haven’t been around enough to be telling profs how things work.”

    No, I assure you I’ve been around the right people.

    “The role of university funding is to help graduate students (*students*) through their training”

    You’re right, in principle. That’s not the reality of graduate life, unfortunately.

    “This is the way virtually every university operates, and it’s fair and reasonable.”

    It is NOT the way virtually every university operates — only in Canada, really. (Recall, I’ve seen 0% of my scholarships.) And it is most definitely NOT fair or reasonable, because we’re talking about below-poverty-line income. Period.

  91. demarche

    The Dray-Andrew exchange illustrates a key difference in how people think of graduate school.

    If Dray’s position as a graduate student is a job that he has applied for and won, then sure, it seems unfair that his “wages” should be reduced if he gets an external scholarship.

    If Dray is a student, who is getting training, and who the university wants to help through his training by giving him cash for studying, then it seems fair and progressive that his support should be partly reduced if he gets external funding, in order to have more cash to give to other students.

    Myself, I think that graduate students are students, not workers, and that the debate has to be guided by that.

    That said, I certainly think that graduate students should get more financial support, especially at York. That position has the high ground, and it’s too bad that CUPE can’t take a more intelligent approach to getting students what they need.

  92. Drop-out Boogie

    NO ICE CREAM FOR ANYONE!!!!!

    Guys come see a wicked concert on January 31st at the Chelsea Room… 923 Dundas W.

    Eclectic mix of old school ska n rollin’ gospel for all your frustrated ears to taste!

    $5 /// starts at 10

  93. demarche

    @ dray

    – “I realize I was harsh with Andrew”

    Yes, I agree that ‘fuck off asshole’ counts as harsh.

    – “No, I assure you I’ve been around the right people.”

    I’ve managed budgets at York that are run off overhead funding, so I assure you, look around. Not sure what research area you’re in, so maybe it’s different there, but I assure it is common for all universities, including York, to take part of some of professors’ grants. Denying this is like denying that students pay tuition.

    – “Recall, I’ve seen 0% of my scholarships.”

    I have graduate students who have significantly increased their funding by getting external scholarships. In fact I know graduate students in my department who are not even members of CUPE this year, because *all* their funding comes from external scholarhips. So I’m not sure where you’re coming from.

  94. Andrew

    @Dray

    First, overhead is a university-wide policy. I believe the relevant policies are publicly available on the York Research web page. It is true that some few grants do not require overhead charges, such NSERC Discovery. Unless your department has somehow negotiated a different rule, which would be exceptionally surprising, your statement is wrong.

    Second, you criticize my position by saying, “when I last won a large scholarship and didn’t see a penny”, when I agreed that you are entitled to at least some of these funds, and in fact students receive about half these funds in my department. You also say, “a scholarship is designed to be an incentive to be excellent”, a statement with which I agree, and which I included almost verbatim in my own post! Are you saying half an NSERC, about $10k a year, is no incentive to be excellent?

    However, to respond to your statement, “[a scholarship is] not to subsidize the academic department’s graduate student funding”, if the funding agencies that administer the scholarship agreed with you, why would they continue to offer scholarships in large numbers to schools with clawback provisions (which most schools do have, as you acknowledge)? Since these major scholarships are already issued on a per-institution basis, this would be a trivial requirement to enforce. One must conclude that the funding agencies disagree with you and instead see scholarships as, partly, a university subsidy, and not wholly as an individual award.

    So to review, you’re wrong on fact (about overhead). You argue against points on which I have agreed with you. Your own personal definition of a scholarship is, apparently, not shared by the people who issue the scholarships.

  95. Dray, responding to demarche

    Demarche, I appreciate greatly your comments.

    I do recall that, in my department, research grants pay for the departmental and research centre infrastructures that supports research. I had lengthy discussions about this with my research centre director and departmental chair (who I have excellent relationships with), so I’m confident that my information is correct.

    However, electricity and physical plant are not included.

    I don’t withdraw my “f*ck you, asshole” comment, however, because his remarks remind me of the variety of abuses I’ve endured as a graduate student here.

    Although my advisor is a famous scientist and I count myself lucky to be in their laboratory, I regret coming to York. Whenever I compare experiences with graduate students from other universities — both in Canada and otherwise, and always at academic conferences — I’m always reminded of how bad a York graduate studentship actually is. It’s actually TERRIBLE here! (I’m too livid, at the moment, to calm down enough to describe it to you!) A veritable DISASTER! My advisor is in complete agreement with this estimation, I should add.

    “In fact I know graduate students in my department who are not even members of CUPE this year, because *all* their funding comes from external scholarhips. So I’m not sure where you’re coming from.”

    My department has a policy of taking 100% of York Entrance Scholarships, 100% of OGS, OGSSTs, and 50% of NSERCs. I’ve had the Entrance Scholarship and OGSST. I’ve also had another scholarship that was paid externally not via Payroll) and had to give up some of my TAship and all top-ups, even though this was in direct violation of the rules of the award.

    That’s where I’m coming from.

  96. Andrew

    @Dray

    I’m sorry to hear that you’ve had a shitty grad student experience. I don’t think it’s all sweetness and light in my department, but I don’t think our average grad student sees their lot as toil and strife. However, it sounds like your problem is mostly with your department and not with the university as a whole.

    Anyway, I’ve got to get to work here, so I’m signing off. Nice talking with you.

  97. Dray, responding to demarche

    @Andrew:

    I definitely concede to you your point about paying for overhead. Please accept my apology on that point. I would have been happy to have received at least $2000 or $3000 of $10000. (I was upset to have gotten zero, and — furthermore — to have had a summer of paycheques of $0 because $10000 was paid to me from December to April.)

    I also appreciate your point on fractions of scholarship funding as an incentive. In fact, I’m indeed altruistic enough that I am in fact glad that my colleagues can benefit from my having won a scholarship. (My comments are somewhat irrational because I’m so upset right now.)

    @Demarche

    I do appreciate that I’m not am employee but rather a student receiving a sort of apprenticeship style of research training. (The fact that I don’t actually get proper training is another matter.)

    But, I really do think it’s reasonable that when I get a TA raise, I should see more money, and that, when I’m awarded a scholarship, I should see more money.

  98. Dray, responding to demarche

    (The previous post was mangled. The comment about receiving $2000 or $3000.. belongs with the second paragraph. I’m really upset right now — that’ s my excuse for poor writing 😉 )

  99. Dray, responding to Andrew

    @Andrew:

    I think you might be right that the problem is specific to my department.

    I appreciate your sympathy on that point. I really do.

    I’m signing off, too, now. I didn’t mean to make this blog my own personal soapbox.

  100. Dray, responding to Andrew

    “One must conclude that the funding agencies disagree with you and instead see scholarships as, partly, a university subsidy, and not wholly as an individual award.”

    Just on this point, I agree with you that the funding agencies must therefore see scholarships this way, which means the graduate funding problem is nation-wide and not specific to York. (But, I suspect, really, that the agencies are just looking the other way.)

    Of course, this is not codified in the policies of these agencies. There’s definitely a big, big problem here, I’m sure you’ll agree.

  101. demarche

    @ dray

    If your department has a 100% clawback policy, you have my sympathy. That is just not right.

    This kind of thing is why I say that it’s too bad that CUPE isn’t taking a more intelligent approach. There are real problems that they could help solve. If CUPE’s demands were centered on reasonable raises (e.g., 3%/year), implementing a maximum 50% clawback policy, and so on, then there is no way that York would have allowed this strike to go on for over two months. You would have gotten those things.

    But instead CUPE goes for the nuclear option. Problems with funding? Let’s take 30% pay increases every year. Problems with job security? Let’s give our entire long-term contract pool tenure for life. If York is accepting the damage caused by this two-month-plus strike, it’s only because much, much worse damage would result from accepting these demands.

    Incidentally, in case misery loves company, profs’ salaries are lowered by the amount of external fellowships too. On a sabbatical, I won a support fellowship from the university I went to for that year. Under the terms of the YUFA contract, my salary was reduced by the full amount, i.e., 100% clawback. So you’re not alone.

  102. Pingback: Top Posts « WordPress.com

  103. clennis

    “Myself, I think that graduate students are students, not workers, and that the debate has to be guided by that.”
    I’ll keep this in mind when I go back to work as a GA.
    Though, I’m not entirely sure how website programming has anything to do with my education as a humanities student.
    Nor do I understand how it is that I’m supposed to live on $659/month.

  104. demarche

    @ clennis

    “I’ll keep this in mind when I go back to work as a GA. Though, I’m not entirely sure how website
    programming has anything to do with my education as a humanities student.”

    Well, I guarantee you that whatever work the university is hiring you to do, it’s not because you’re the most highly qualified or cheapest labour. It’s to help support you financially through your studies.

    Again, I agree that graduate students aren’t given enough financial support. The question is how best to fix this problem. And it seems to me that CUPE isn’t serving your interests very well, fixating on instant, extreme solutions that would damage the university.

    But I have to say, I find this informative, finding out that a substantial number of graduate students see their relationship to the university as much like that of professors or janitors or Soviet salt mine workers, and less like subsidized undergraduate students. I’m not sure how this point of view gained such traction. To me, it seems quite misguided.

  105. Dray, responding to Andrew

    “But instead CUPE goes for the nuclear option. ”

    Agreed.

    I voted against the strike during the official vote and again at the GMM before we walked out. I went to meetings and spoke out against our demands.

    I did not support CUPE 3903 whatsoever until the start of December, when the demands were brought down substantially. e.g. we don’t want 30% increases per year any more; we want %4 per year. And the 8% is designed strictly to restore us to the real wage level of 2005.

    To clarify, although I’ve mentioned how unfair it is to have scholarships clawed back, I don’t hope to gain protection here. CUPE’s current clawback protection demand relates only to wages.

    That is, if my TA wages increase by a couple of hundred dollars, my pay should actually increase by that much.

    Right now, I pay more tax whenever my wages go up, but my before-tax income actually remains unchanged. I don’t think I have to argue why I deserve to receive more money whenever I get a raise.

  106. sam

    Can you imagine the pressure and stress when we do go back? I hope the ta’s aren’t smug…or bitchy..I will have a tough time trying to keep my comments to myself and not be nasty…I have had this year ruined and you can all admit to that…this is not the way it should be, no one should be able to hold 50,000 students as hostage….paying hostage…big bucks…..we will never regain what was ours…Nov. – Jan. or Feb…can’t be recouped…

  107. tester

    The Ontario Legislature is on break until February 15 or 16, but can be recalled for an emergency session if necessary. Thousands of students are emailing their MPP and other MPPs in Ontario explaining their hardships during the strike, and demanding the the Ontario Legislature be recalled to enact back to work legislation. This is an emergency. Back to work legislation is the only way to guarantee our semester is not lost.

    The Provincial Government wants to stay out of this labour dispute and let 50,000 students suffer in hopes of a negotiated settlement. Thousands of students have been out of school since November 6th, and are demanding action from the Provincial Government. Also, parents and students from other school are writing, demanding government intervention and back to work legislation.

    I encourage everyone to email/fax their MPP and the three key people below and let them know how you feel and what you want done.

    You can find your MPP’s contact info here:http://www.yorknothostage.com/letter…g-contact-info

    And here are the rest.
    Dalton McGuinty: dmcguinty.mpp@liberal.ola.org AND dmcguinty.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org AND Premier’s feedback form

    Minister of Labour, Peter Fonseca pfonseca.mpp@liberal.ola.org AND pfonseca.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org

    Minister of Training, Colleges and Universities, John Milloy: jmilloy.mpp@liberal.ola.org AND jmilloy.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org

    Also, they can be reached by phone and fax. The contact info is also in the MPP contact info link. Let them know how each of you feel, and what you want done.

    YOU AND EVERYONE YOU KNOW CAN HELP. VISIT THE SITES IN MY SIGNATURE FOR MORE DETAILS FROM THESE THOUSANDS OF STUDENTS.

    http://www.yorknothostage.com AND http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=44571865743

    IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT STUDENTS WORK TOGETHER TO LOBBY THE PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT TO STEP UP AND END THE STRIKE.

  108. ‘to the person who wants to know how people (history professor) are able to live with mortgages and other commitments (such as funding their child’s University education) if they do not know how much money they will earn next year’

    I suggest you speak with any self-employed individual in Canada. That is precisely how we live. I have a Ph.D., am self-employed and live in rural Ontario. As such not only do I not know how much money I will make, but I do not have sick benifits, unemployment insurance, or receive any holiday pay. Further my child’s education and living expenses are mine to pay with whatever help he can provide through working in the fast food service industry.

    The truth is if I do not do my job well, I will have no clients. If the clients don’t hire me, I don’t earn any money etc. etc.

    What I need right now is for my son to resume his studies at York so the thousands of dollars I have paid for his education this year will not be completely wasted. Please let’s have some compassion for all the people who are affected by this impasse. Seems to me none of us have the corner on hardship. Maybe if we all paused long enough we might see that the way this is unfolding, no one is ‘winning’.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s