FORCED VOTE ON YORK UNIVERSITY OFFER WASTES VALUABLE BARGAINING TIME, UNION SAYS

January 9, 2009 – TORONTO, ON.

After five days of negotiations that brought the two sides significantly closer together, CUPE 3903 is frustrated and disappointed by York University administration’s decision to walk away from the table and call for a forced ratification vote on an offer that a general membership meeting rejected last night by nearly 90%.

“Our members agreed that the university’s offer is inadequate and does not address several key priorities set out by the membership,” said spokesperson Tyler Shipley.

In particular, CUPE 3903 members are deeply concerned by the administration’s unwillingness to maintain a historic commitment to converting contract professors into tenure stream jobs, especially in context of more than 100 retirements that have occurred in the tenure stream.

“York’s lack of commitment to conversions not only creates hardship for contract professors but also institutionalizes the casualization of university teaching,” said Maria Wallis, a contract professor. “Teaching at the university level should not be a ‘McJob.’”

This tenth week of the strike marked the first time that York could be persuaded to stay at the table with the union’s bargaining team, Shipley said. Prior to Jan. 3, there had been only five days of bargaining. Though both members and leadership are disappointed that this recent period of fruitful negotiations has come to an end, Shipley said they are confident that a ratification vote will only reiterate the union’s strong commitment to its priorities and to its members’ ability to provide a high-quality education at York.

According to Ben Nelson, a teaching assistant and York University senator, “The resumption of negotiations as soon as possible is the best and quickest way to end the strike.”

http://www.3903strike.ca/

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119 Comments

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119 responses to “FORCED VOTE ON YORK UNIVERSITY OFFER WASTES VALUABLE BARGAINING TIME, UNION SAYS

  1. mikael

    no surprise here…

    i expect this to go till the last second…damn strike…

    i wonder what will happen to summer school ? prly bumped…

    first 🙂

  2. aaaaaaaaahhh

    So this “supervised vote” is going to fail?? When in this stupid strike going to end????????????

  3. Chris F

    Good ol’ CUPE 3903. I have to admit I’m a bit dizzy from all the spinning they’re doing. At least they’re consistent, eh?

  4. lol

    we still haven’t broken 2001’s record of 12 weeks yet so don’t fret, sit back and relax 🙂

  5. CUPE member with child

    My bet is the Fall semester ill be cancelled for sure. We have to wait and see what happens to the Winter semester.

  6. gingero

    Viva la CUPE!

  7. Laura

    Somehow I highly doubt the fall semester will be cancelled. It’s nothing but a scare tactic.

  8. Melissa

    Has anyone noticed the hot guys at the picket lines…im starting to like cupe3903…..lol

  9. Chris F

    @CUPE member with child:

    I really hope you’re wrong. If the union is going to screw me, it’s only polite that they at least buy me dinner first.

  10. Diana

    @Melissa

    I was able to get an email

  11. 4th Year Student

    @ Melissa

    who cares..your year is being destroyed because of them

  12. Cupe Fred

    I agree with CUPE member with child, our union is holding very strong.

  13. gingero

    [edited by moderator for spreading false hope ;)]

  14. Worried

    The strike is not over get real!!

  15. Ana

    Strikes over? What?

  16. ss

    Gingero…what are you talking about. Please don’t waste our time spreading rumours. The strike is not over.

  17. Commuter

    @ CUPE member with child

    What happens with full year courses if the fall term is cancelled?

  18. dsd

    I don’t understand why trolls have a NEED to do this. Get a life.

  19. mikael

    [edited by moderator] that spread rumors on here saying the strike is over.

    do something useful with ur life.

  20. Worried

    The fall year will not be cancelled. I wish those people will stop scaring others on these sites.

  21. aaaaaaaaahhh

    there no way fall semester is being canceled. Stop writing lies…

    i need to stop reading this crap until the day the vote takes place lol

  22. Yorkie

    Either way, the vote happens latest the 19th, earliest the 15th, right? Because there are some anti-strike people that seemed convinced that the vote will take place early next week. I think they’re in denial…

  23. Lordy Lordy

    No way the semester will be cancelled. Government will step in as government funding is contingent on classes taking place. The government and university will not allow that contract to be violated

    If CUPE is stupid enough to reject this, they simply will be forced into binding arbitration (which, honestly, would be a good thing) or will arrange to work to rule them

  24. brutal

    @ Lordy Lord / don’t you think the contract w us and the university has already been compromised? They might as well cancel fall semester adn provide me w a proper semester that I had intended on having.

    WHO WAnts to rally for $$$$ back ?

  25. Cupe Fred

    York can only force ratification once.

    The employer does not have the power to force CUPE 3903 anymore.
    To make this clear to everyone CUPE 3903 will not be forced into anything.
    CUPE 3903 HAS THE SAME POWER AS YORK.

    However, you can write and say all you want about CUPE because THIS IS THE ONLY PLACE YOU CAN.

  26. York Student

    I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THE TITLE…

  27. Yorkie

    If this forced rat. goes on for as long as I think it will they BETTER cancel the fall semester. I don’t know if they’d cancel the Summer semester, they’d lose even more money than if they cancelled the fall.

  28. Commuter

    @ Yorkie

    Why should they cancel any semester?

  29. Yorkie

    I think that this time around, if York cared about getting students back to class, they would have stayed negociating. Not trying to break the union to see if they’ll fight amongst themselves. York pulled yet another doozy, what a surprise…

  30. Yorkie

    @Commuter

    Well, for one with this forced rat., we’ll be loosing probably another 2 weeks of remediation time, unless they cancel the summer semester and we continue on into the summer, but hell what do I know? I’m just a student. Better let the big boys have their war and we’ll see what we get in the end…

  31. theowne

    Man what shi**y people in CUPE and York University.

    Don’t these morons feel embarrassed at the display they’re putting on?

    This is why collectivist societies like Japan are better than us. Over there they wouldn’t let an embarrassing thing like this long strike which screwing over 50,000 students happen for this long.

    Economy is worsening and CUPE are asking for more than being the highest paid TAs in Ontario.

    I think I’m going to get an anger problem because of this retarded strike. Why the hell is my life being screwed over because of CUPE morons?

  32. undergrad

    @cupe fred

    were you the TA that was talking on the news cast?

  33. Mike

    Don’t you want your TAs to be happy when they are marking your tests and exams or do you just want them to rush and finish marking without any part marks?
    Did you know that inorder to give part marks the TAs must put in more time to check where you went wrong? or do you want them to just give you a big fat Zero?

    I dont know about many of you but i want the people that mark my tests/exams to be happier than my professors. HELLO.
    LEARN HOW TO THINK LIKE A SCHULICH BUSINESS MAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  34. yorkiee101

    ANYONE know the chances tht the school yr will be cancelledd???

  35. oh really...

    Even though I doubt the university would actually cancel a semseter, why do they keep saying it would be fall? We are ALMOST DONE any half year courses! I have done more work in those classes than in my 3 years classes, so I better get my credits.
    Secondly, most York courses are full year anyways, so they can’t just “cancel” half of them! It makes no sense.

    Oh, and I heard something about this voting thing not being until the 26th…I really hope that isn’t true….is it?

  36. Yorkie

    @yorkiee101

    For the last time, it won’t happen. Too much money to be lost for York. I anything, it’ll either be the Fall or Summer semester.

  37. P D

    The threat of the year or even the fall semester being cancelled is nothing but crap and is being used a scare tactic. No way will York cancel anything and refund half the tuition. That would be way too detrimental to Yorks rep( which is already bad enough). People also have to remeber that the strike in 2000/2001 lasted for 11 weeks and nothing was cancelled. Just the year was extended into summer. Nothing will be cancelled for the last time.

  38. Yorkie

    @oh really

    I think that would be one of the times we could possibly get back to class. Until someone corrects me, I’m going to assume that the forced rat. will take place on the 19th. Since from what I heard, that’s when the admin wants it to take place. I also heard a lot of international students booking flights back to Toronto on the 25th or so, hopefully they are right.

  39. Basil El-Salviti

    @ Sean

    Makes no sense to cancel a semester already in progress. In fact, the more people keep ‘guaranteeing’ this, the more I think this board is getting out of hand.

    Most that is gone is the summer semester.

  40. Yufa McYufa

    I’m a YUFA member. As you may be aware, a significant number of YUFites, myself included, are very unhappy with CUPE’s handling of the strike. Perhaps there are enough to restart classes even without CUPE’s help. I would certainly urge my dean to consider the possibility of restarting if the alternative was to cancel the semester/year.

  41. Lexi

    @oh really…

    I heard on the news that the vote will be held before February, therefore the Jan. 26th is possible.

  42. Yorkie

    I wouldn’t believe anything Sean says…

    -_-

  43. Yorkie

    @Yufa McYufa

    Although I know many wont share this opinion, but think it be a blessing if we could start from scratch.

  44. D

    Fall and Winter won’t be cancelled. Summer probably, but F/W will never ever be cancelled. Please repeat:

    “York will never cancel the semester: pigs will fly and unicorns will rule the world before this happens”

  45. kyle

    Does anyone know any hot sexy TA’s because THE PORN INDUSRTY IS HIRING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  46. Pally Wally

    theowne,

    I am surprised at the continued selfishness of the undergraduates, their parents, and the public that espouse the opinion you are sharing.

    3903 IS being selfish, but it is their right to do so, and there is a long history of this behaviour from this union.

    So. I think there are several reasons that this talk should stop.

    1) Calling someone selfish because it effects you is one thing, but then demanding that your rights (consumer’s rights, by the way) be put ahead of the labour rights of others (Ie. the right to barter the cost of one’s labour) is hypocritical in any situation, let alone one in which you have willingly entered into an institutionalized hierarchy.

    1b) An attitude of entitlement ignores that the government pays a good portion of your tab at the university (and I’m not even counting OSAP, etc) so it is everyone’s hard earned money as much as yours.

    2) Take responsibility for your actions. You chose to go to York. No one forced you to pick York or even to attend post-secondary education.

    Had you researched the school more thoroughly beforehand, you could have seen that this is the 3rd strike in 11 years – in other words, it is hardly an aberration. And this isn’t secret info, either; York was, and for many of us, still is a very left-leaning university, although I can understand how that is something that might be missed by a public that increasingly thinks that any news station is “fair and balanced” let alone FOX News.

  47. Sean

    @Yorkie

    Why are u starting BEEF with me???

    Have you heard of the ITALIAN MAFIA ?????????

  48. Yorkie

    @Lexi

    So on the news they said just before Feb then? So jan 19 vote is possible?

    Have they actually been mentioning anything on the news about the date. Haven’t found anything as of yet…

  49. AndrewB

    York makes tons of money in the Fall and Winter semesters. Summer is basically there to cover the costs of running the school during that time. I bet if Universities closed up for the summer, as in no admins showed up, there would be no need for summer school. Would be stupid for them to cancel the fall semester just so they could keep the summer one.

  50. D

    Exactly Andrew, the mere notion that Fall/Winter would be cancelled is silly…. especially when it is easier to just take out summer. Anyone who even thinks as such needs to sit back and think about it, it isn’t happening.

  51. second jobs are nice

    the union is pushing all the student buttons.
    what a waste of a year for us!!!!
    all greed. unions are a mistake and stupid.

  52. KAZZA

    You all sound so sure that they would not cancel the fall term but at some point there will be a time where even if they canceled the summer they would need to move on to complete the winter and possible Y courses as well. I think we need to hope that this vote works and most people should be hoping that is 23 days from now we are writing our exams.

  53. theowne

    @theowne

    >>>>>>I am surprised at the continued selfishness of the undergraduates

    Yeah, I’m so selfish because I don’t want an YEAR OF MY LIFE ruined thanks to CUPE and their moronic demands accompanied by lazy, half-a**ed attempts at actually resolving the situation. People can strike all they want, but at least be serious and motivated not to mention REALISTIC about it. This is nothing but an abuse of the privilege to strike.

  54. York Student

    if anything is canceled, they better reimburse us all.

  55. free press

    An excerpt from an editorial in today’s Toronto Star:

    “Sadly, the intransigent union representing the 3,440 teaching assistants and contract faculty has shown no more sense on this than it has throughout the nine-week long strike.

    The offered wage increase is more than most workers get in good economic times, let alone the ones we’re in right now. Yet the Canadian Union of Public Employees (CUPE) Local 3903 claims it’s “a step back” and not even worth bringing to their members for a vote.

    One hopes that this was exhausted rhetoric fuelled by too much coffee and that the union leaders change their minds. Or union members may be sufficiently fed up with their leaders to demand a chance to vote on the offer.

    The need to end this strike for the sake of students seems lost on the union, however. “We are going to keep at (negotiations) ’til we are happy,” says union spokesperson Tyler Shipley.

    Happy? Bargaining isn’t about holding out until you get everything you want. It’s about compromise.”

    Even the Toronto Star has turned against 3903.

    http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/564108

  56. Observer

    Well, York technically CAN cancel the fall term without pay students back their paid tuition fees.

    I hear that they are going to keep the money and ask the students to take the course again.

    As for the summer term, why would York want to give away a big chunck of money it gets for the summer? At least they no the strike will be over by then and they will have no problems.

    On the other hand they can use the strike excuse to justify hatever they want to do now, including the cancellation of the fall term.

    I think eventually it will happen. There was even a debate last week that some year courses might get canclled too.

  57. amy doan

    if the Fall semester is cancelled, what would happen to those year-round courses ? im taking SOSC 9.0, and i dont want to waste another yr at York!

  58. Observer

    Well, the Toronto Star has proved not to be a professional newspaper (unfortunately). They seems to get their news from a different planet.

  59. cancan11

    @ Observer

    Where have you heard all this info?

  60. Observer

    @ amy doan

    I do not know about that particular course. Every department will have a meeting once the strike is over.

    But the most like semester to be cancelled is the Fall one. That was why they had to get law students back since their courses have a more rigid time requirements

  61. damnit

    undergraduate students suffer too much pain. damn !

  62. Observer

    @ cancan11

    These are topics most people talk about at York everyday.

  63. Observer

    Yes, but so do the grad students.

  64. Shahed

    I do not know why York has asked to have the vote on 21? What would they benefit by delaying the strike any longer?

  65. Observerd

    Simple: they ant to have an excuse to cancle the fall term whitout having to reimburse the tuition fees.

  66. free press

    I enjoy that logic – if someone criticizes you, the fault lies with them. Undergrads who rail against the union are admin stooges and/or uninformed. The most prominent (and generally leftist) newspaper in the country slams 3903 in an editorial? They’re clearly unprofessional.

    The deluded sense of reality 3903 members are operating under would be comical if not for the very real consequences for the rest of us.

  67. AndrewB

    See that is the thing people don’t understand. If you cancel one semester, you might as well cancel the year because a lot of students have courses all year round. I have 4 of my 6 classes running all year round, so if they cancel all these classes, I am left with 2 classes this semester.

    It’s a scare tactic. It has even been said, it isn’t going to effect the fall semester, it is going to effect the summer one.

    But seriously, we have talked about this every day for the past month now. So there is no point going on about it and getting worried. Some people don’t want school, they can drop out now. Some want it, and they can wait.

  68. Andrew

    @Observer

    That doesn’t make any sense at all. If cancellation of the term was a possibility, York could use it as leverage to convince CUPE members to vote “yes” in the forced ratification vote. If it’s already too late, then forced rat should have happened earlier; if term cancellation might happen imminently after a “no” vote, the administration would be making a big deal out of it. So whoever you’re hearing this information from is talking out of their ass.

  69. Pally Wally

    theowne:
    “Yeah, I’m so selfish because I don’t want an YEAR OF MY LIFE ruined thanks to CUPE and their moronic demands accompanied by lazy, half-a**ed attempts at actually resolving the situation. People can strike all they want, but at least be serious and motivated not to mention REALISTIC about it. This is nothing but an abuse of the privilege to strike.”

    I never said it is selfish to be upset; it is selfish to expect to have someone educate you that feels they are being exploited.

    I think the demands are pretty realistic relative to the value produced by CUPE3903 members, we disagree on these matters. Who is to say what is realistic? It’s merely a term – and it is all relative. A recession means little to the university, especially for this reason; York isn’t hurting for undergraduate enrollments. The demand is still there – a recession only hurts areas where people stop spending – hey, maybe that will happen, but the government is making education look pretty tempting to the tens of thousands of people recently laid off.

    Also, striking is a right fought for an won by the labour movement over the years, it is not a privilege – like high school lockers.

  70. Andrew

    I might add, the body empowered to make academic decisions at York is the Senate. It is noteworthy that Senate is the body that ordered the suspension of classes as a result of the strike, and to my knowledge, Senate has never discussed the cancellation of classes. You can check for yourself — meeting minutes are online.

  71. KAZZA

    I think they can cancel fall semestered courses without canceling the full term courses that is what I was lead to understand as well it is easier to start the winter and full year courses in an already compressed time than it is to make up the fall semester and compress the winter and run summer

  72. AndrewB

    Globe and Mail
    Toronto Star
    MacLeans

    Major media in Canada and the world are all against CUPE. This isn’t hurting York as it is hurting CUPE as a whole union. It would not surprise me in the least if come 2010, the union is ordered back to work if they engage in this type of striking.

    As the article said, “you can’t just hold out till you are happy with everything. It is about compromising”.

  73. AndrewB

    Thing is, they are not really compressing it to much. Students freak out so much over every little thing. It is ONE WEEK being lost where material has to be compressed. And if you have been keeping up with your work, there will be no problem. The exam schedual is compressed, but I am sure you will find many teachers going easier on these tests.

    Then after that we go back into a 12 week work load as we normally do. So as I have pointed out, all this “Cancel the fall” stuff by students is out of fear for 1 week and a few days in exams. One week of hard work isn’t worth to me giving up a year of my life.

  74. KAZZA

    Except I have classes where I will have missed three lectures. Then with the extra time they will need to make up and do exams (they have said 23 days total) that will take us well in to Feb. This is assuming the forced vote works. What if it is March before we start the winter semester?

    3.3.4.6) If a Disruption continues to a point where no feasible remedy consistent with the principle of academic integrity is available, then, Senate Executive Committee shall after consultation recommend to Senate that credit not be given for the course(s).

  75. Andrew

    @Pally Wally

    The “rising enrollment in a recession” point is interesting.

    First, I know it’s intuitive, but are there studies to suggest that it actually happens? I asked an old-timer about the last recession in 90-91, and he couldn’t remember any spike in enrollments.

    Second, as you mentioned in a previous post, more than half of the university’s revenue per student comes from the provincial government. The province is under financial stress, and the universities have already been asked to show “restraint”, so there’s no guarantee that the provincial subsidy will remain the same. It is quite possible that the university’s revenue will decline even as enrollment increases.

  76. To AndrewB

    speak for yourself buddy, all of my courses are full year…my WHOLE year will be compressed

  77. free press

    Pally, the university doesn’t get all of its revenue from student tuition fees. The government subsidzes the school heavily, and the school relies on its endowment.

    As you know, the endowment has taken a massive hit over the last few months – there will be less money available from that source. The provincial government is now also running deficits. You can bet they won’t be upping budgets for universities in this or any of the coming years. There will be less money going to each student, as enrolment increases and funding falls or stays the same.

    Despite this 3903 presses for more. Utterly selfish.

  78. utterly annoyed

    @ Pally Wally,

    Just because CUPE has a long history of being selfish, does not mean they have the right to be. There are several reasons why YOU should stop your talk of self-righteousness.

    1)All of the rights of 3903 are easily upheld by the ESA (Employment Standards Act) of Ontario, and what CUPE is fighting for is well above and beyond that which is entitled to them. There are plenty of other jobs out there that don’t have any benefits whatsoever. Stop complaining. You’re absolutely correct – the right to strike was won by the labour movement. If you were actually fighting for your rights, you would have actual support. You’re not fighting for your rights, you’re fighting for added bonuses.

    2)Take responsibility for YOUR actions. You chose to work at York. No one forced you to pick York. You could have easily gotten a job anywhere. And since you clearly did your research, you would know that this union has a long history of this kind of behaviour. The idiocy of choosing to be part of a union that you know to be either a) treated unfairly or b) self-righteous and constantly striking is beyond me. Why would you willingly choose to be a part of either of those situations?

    3)An attitude of entitlement ignores the fact that the government pays a good portion of your tab at the university as well. How on earth does it benefit you to waste not only the students’ money, but your own as well? This will only help you in the event of you fighting for the “bigger picture”, in which case I’d advise you to move to a communist society because democratically speaking, that is not how the majority of people want things done here and you will never win the support of other residents and employees in Ontario.

    I’m not saying the York is right or wrong in this situation, and I’m not say that CUPE is right or wrong in this situation. I’m saying the you’re very wrong in your reasoning and you need to stop talking.

    That is all.

  79. free press

    Pally is the worst epicketer at cupe. Someone call ‘CUPE MEMBER WITH CHILD’, she’s so much better at drawing empathy.

  80. Sshmr

    Enough about the rising enrolment thing. York has stated this:

    “In Toronto, the president of York University circulated a statement indicating the value of its endowment fund had dropped by 19% or $55-million, which would put the squeeze on new hiring and make it difficult to meet operating expenses and demand for student aid.”

    Assuming 6000 dollars per student, York’s enrolment would have to increase by ~9200 in order to match that 55 million dollar loss. This is not factoring in the new hires that would be required to accomodate ~9200 additional full time students. Nor is it factoring the 18 million other factors, but for the sake of simplicity, let’s just compare these factors.

    Second, the Toronto Star is the most left-leaning, most pro-union mainstream news outlet in Toronto. This is not questionable. Perhaps the Sun is more left-leaning, but not a lot of people consider the Sun a credible newspaper. Certainly, the Globe and Mail and the National Post are to the right of the Star. The fact that the Star has been against this strike since day one speaks volumes.

  81. caitron

    hi everyone,
    does anyone know when the vote is going to take place? has it been scheduled yet? thanks!

  82. oh really...

    No one ever seems to have an explanation as to HOW or WHY they would cancel FALL term. It makes no SENSE! We are almost done the 3 credit classes…why stop now?

    AND, full year courses can’t just become half year courses. One of mine (which I have no idea how the course is even going to work, because it is a TV class, and basically our whole grade is based upon a year-long project that rewquires following a show and analyzing and stuff….which clearly not having class means no tools to analyze with) builds upon the stuff we did in September…you can’t just “get rid of” half of the material/assignments

    That probably makes no sense, but I don’t need to explain full details, I just want to get the point out there that I just don’t think it’s possible!

  83. Andrew

    @Sshmr

    Although I suspect the “rising enrollment” argument is somewhere between overly optimistic and downright bogus, I don’t think your numbers are right.

    First, a $55 million loss in the endowment doesn’t imply a $55 million loss in annual revenue. The endowment is invested, and the income on the investment is transformed into revenue. At a conservative rate of return (4%), $55 million amounts to a loss of $2.2 million in annual revenue; at an aggressive rate of return (15%), $55 million amounts to a loss of $8.3 million in annual revenue. The true annual loss is probably somewhere between those two numbers.

    Second, the university gets considerably more than $6000 per student in the form of provincial subsidies. I don’t know what the exact number is, but $15,000 per student (including tuition and subsidies) is probably in the ballpark.

    Third, each additional student is not pure profit for the university, unless they are all crammed in to the same tutorials and lectures.

    Fourth, if you want to know the really scary number, it’s the hundred-million-plus shortfall in the York pension plan (again, that’s an annuity, like the endowment).

  84. sharma pankai

    [edited by moderator – user IP blocked]

  85. If anyone is looking for answers on what may be cancelled I think York answers that in their latest FAQ on the vote

    “The strike is now entering its 10th week and as it extends further into January, we now face the prospect of putting the integrity
    of the full summer term in jeopardy.”

  86. D

    Exactly, york won’t even consider cancelling F/W until Summer is completely gone.

    For many people a cancellation in Fall Means:

    a) Full Year course gone
    b) Missing Prerequisites not allowing them to do the winter classes.

    Specifically Calculus I and II, Physics, Chem, etc

  87. AndrewB

    Exactly, it is the summer term that will be hurt, not the fall. As of right now, they can try to save the summer semester but having a few compressed weeks. But since the vast majority of students return home or work during the summer and do not take classes, the school does not run a lot of classes because it would cost to much. Then run enough to cover the costs. English had I believe about 10 classes being offered from year 1 to 4. 10 classes, when they normally run somewhere around 100 classes.

    They make their money when the most students are on campus and that is fall/winter. Those are the main semesters, they are not going to ditch them just to save a summer semester that never runs full anyway.

    What may happen is, they will get to a point where they can’t compress anymore and you will see winter semester ending in May, forcing Spring/Summer school to be pushed back or cancelled its self.

  88. AndrewB

    And exactly what D just said and I have said over and over again. You can’t cancel a fall semester because students will lose entire classes. As I said, I myself have 4 year round classes. So I am suppose to lose my fall semester, drop down to 2 classes and run that all winter semester, because I can’t get into any other 4th year classes now.

  89. theowne

    Well, you guys should be relieved because summer goes first, not Fall Winter.

    Unfortunately I pushed two prerequisites into the summer term so I’m screwed over either way.

  90. york student

    i need the summer term as well….i hope they at least offer 3 credit courses, or third year is gonna end up being just as hellish for me as this year has been (cause of the strike)

  91. oh really...

    At least they offer your courses in summer, so you can catch up in the future. I don’t have full course loads because I would rather take a bit longer and do better, but they don’t even offer anything I can take in the summer. It basically means they are forcing me to stay at least an extra semester (or probably year since most courses are annoyingly full year). So, if anything happens to this year, even though it is HIGHLY unlikely, I will basically be taking like 5-6 years to do undergrad. I think not!

  92. AndrewB

    I wouldn’t worry to much about summer, because they do have a good amount of time to do classes as well. You can easily do 3.0 classes in summer, as they take about 6 weeks to do (june/july), and you can still do some 6.0 classes, they will just run into August.

    Students just need to stop getting so worked up over it. I’ve seen so many students in my days get worked up over little things.

  93. D

    @theowne

    You are not screwed. You can take classes at UoT and Ryerson and have them count for york classes. You have your dept sign a sheet, then you have York issue a letter of permission to your hsot institution.

    I am currently taking classes at UoT that count for my York classes.

  94. Aaron

    @D

    Wait, what? You can do that? Why hasn’t everyone just done that then?

  95. D

    I didn’t know we could do that till this year. The deadline for winter passed in November. I’m not sure when the summer deadline is.

  96. theowne

    Wait I’m not getting it. Isn’t the reason summer classes would be canceled is because the winter term is extended? How could I finish my winter term and take summer courses at UofT at the same time?

  97. Pally Wally

    How could I finish my winter term and take summer courses at UofT at the same time?

    Register.

  98. theowne

    Hooray for pointless responses!

  99. Soraya

    Has the date of the forced vote been announced?

  100. AndrewB

    No the date hasn’t been announced. Come on guys, you ask this question over and over again. Go do some research on your own and look it up. It really isn’t that hard to find the info you need. The date will be announced on either CUPE’s site, York’s site or go to googl news and type in ‘York Strike’ to get your info.

  101. Yorkie

    They should have it posted on both websites when it’s ready, right?

  102. AndrewB

    CUPE will have it for sure, and I’m sure York will as well.

    I’m sorry if I seem pissy at this, but one of my biggest peeves is when people ask the same question over and over and over and (times 100) over again, when it has already been answered OR they can easily find the answer themselves.

  103. Soraya

    AndrewB,

    I understand but I save time by posting on here. Someone will answer me so I don’t bother looking. & a lot of the time info has been posted here before it has been posted on those websites.

  104. @ AndrewB

    They probably don’t check this site often so they wouldn’t know what questions are being asked or answered. You can’t be mad at them since this site was created to answer their questions.

  105. Pally Wally

    Andrew,
    “It is quite possible that the university’s revenue will decline even as enrollment increases.”
    But tuition increases are capped at 5%. I guess what I’m getting at, is – undergrads aren’t going to feel the pinch.

    Free press,
    “You can bet they won’t be upping budgets for universities in this or any of the coming years. There will be less money going to each student, as enrolment increases and funding falls or stays the same.”
    I’m not sure how true the first part is. They’ve already earmarked increases in funding, because they’ve mandated increases in graduate enrollment. The problem is, the school in order to get that money can’t stop enrollments, they have to get the money somewhere – and where they’ve finding it are in ‘creative’ ways. Funding had already been falling in real terms as a result of McGuinty’s commitment to ‘education. It is a major issue moving forward into 2010, recession or not.

    Utterly Annoyed
    “Just because CUPE has a long history of being selfish, does not mean they have the right to be. There are several reasons why YOU should stop your talk of self-righteousness.”

    As stated, CUPE’s right to be selfish is a) capitalism in action and b) a right, fought for an won by the labour movement. It isn’t about being self-righteous, the shoe has been on the other foot enough times. If people insist on venting, that’s fine, but calling CUPE “retarded” doesn’t serve much purpose. So, your answer to my ‘self-righteous’ rant, is going to be your own (somehow NOT?) self-righteous defense of the status quo…isn’t it?

    “1)All of the rights of 3903 are easily upheld by the ESA (Employment Standards Act) of Ontario, and what CUPE is fighting for is well above and beyond that which is entitled to them. There are plenty of other jobs out there that don’t have any benefits whatsoever. Stop complaining. You’re absolutely correct – the right to strike was won by the labour movement. If you were actually fighting for your rights, you would have actual support. You’re not fighting for your rights, you’re fighting for added bonuses.”

    If other people want benefits, job security and better wages they are free to organize a union and barter their wage. I openly encourage them, and will support them in any way I can afford to. I’m at York because I want to be a part of like-minded people who are going to make use of our rights.

    “2)Take responsibility for YOUR actions. You chose to work at York. No one forced you to pick York. You could have easily gotten a job anywhere. And since you clearly did your research, you would know that this union has a long history of this kind of behaviour. The idiocy of choosing to be part of a union that you know to be either a) treated unfairly or b) self-righteous and constantly striking is beyond me. Why would you willingly choose to be a part of either of those situations?”

    There is a saying that “getting a PhD is knowing more and more about less and less”. I did have one of those jobs. Actually a couple. One even had a union. Pretty much all that union did was protect incompetence and sloth. But hey, when idiots do the hiring, that is what happens.

    “3)An attitude of entitlement ignores the fact that the government pays a good portion of your tab at the university as well. How on earth does it benefit you to waste not only the students’ money, but your own as well? This will only help you in the event of you fighting for the “bigger picture”, in which case I’d advise you to move to a communist society because democratically speaking, that is not how the majority of people want things done here and you will never win the support of other residents and employees in Ontario.”

    The majority of people support socialized health care; supported university funding at 2005 levels – I don’t get what you think there isn’t the support for. Most people support the billions that Dalton et al. just ear marked for the Big 3, or the financial sector bailout in the states – and there ain’t no unions on wall street. Clearly, you are upset that this is how things are done at York, and you can’t change that. I suggest you go to another school where the political climate is closer to the one you are familiar with in ‘the real world’.

    “I’m not saying the York is right or wrong in this situation, and I’m not say that CUPE is right or wrong in this situation. I’m saying the you’re very wrong in your reasoning and you need to stop talking.”

    Interesting that you will take unreasoned venting over reasoned opposition…

    “That is all.”

    lol. what?

  106. N.B.

    This political cartoon by Gerald Scarfe making fun of former London mayer Ken Livingstone seems to fit CUPE perfectly.

  107. Pally Wally

    free press,
    “Pally is the worst epicketer at cupe. Someone call ‘CUPE MEMBER WITH CHILD’, she’s so much better at drawing empathy.”

    I’m not an e-picketer. Did that just blow your mind?

  108. Second year student

    I haven’t read all the comments, so I’m not sure if this was already written….

    Yes, the 2000-01 strike lasted 11 weeks and they still finished their fall semester, and we haven’t hit the 11th week mark. However, I don’t think it matters how LONG the strike is as much as it matters THE DATE the strike ends. The 2000-01 strike started on October 26th 2000 and ended on January 10th 2001. Today’s the 10th of January.

    Say we go back on the 26th of January. This means that we will finish at the beginning of JUNE. After the last strike, winter exams were done by the beginning of May (I’ve heard, so I can be wrong). People might not have jobs for May, but many have jobs for June ie: people who work for camps. How is York going to compensate these people without providing credit (not grade but money credit) toward fall courses?

    These are just my thoughts.

  109. Second year student

    okay so i just read a post saying that York said the summer semester can fully be in jeopardy.

    can someone post that link?

  110. Andrew

    @Pally Wally

    “But tuition increases are capped at 5%. I guess what I’m getting at, is – undergrads aren’t going to feel the pinch.”

    I’m not an undergrad, and that’s not the point. I was responding to your statement: “A recession means little to the university.” I suggest this is incorrect. You did not contest my claim, so am I right?

  111. Yorkster

    I’m so confused how can cupe reject forced ratification???

  112. Dd

    During the forced ratification, cupe can reject the current offer.

  113. Nikki

    @Dd

    so you’re trying to say they can’t reject the forced ratification?

  114. Dd

    In simple terms:

    Forced ratification vote is a process. The Ministry supervises it, notices are sent out to 3903 members that this is the offer on the table and they can vote on it at a specified date.

    You can vote Yes – accept the proposed contract.
    Or you can vote No – reject the proposed contract.

    YorkU can only ask that this be done once to resolve the current strike situation.

  115. Pally Wally

    Andrew,
    Sorry if i missed something; I’m not certain that this isn’t going to impact the school – if economists failed to predict the sh*t that went down, I’m certainly not going to look into my crystal ball and say X is going to happen.

    Statscan keeps track of things like post-sec. enrollment, but obviously I have no access to the library atm.

    I have to defer to someone else on this, but I’m going to look into some of the issues here. I think we’ve all heard the talking points on either side, and it would be nice to flesh out the picture – or at least how both views are constructed.

  116. Mark

    @second jobs are nice
    I think you are not quite right saying that the unions are greedy and stupid. I worked in private non-unionized companies and I know what “rights and benefits” bosses dispence to their workers -almost zero. For them you are just a casual worker!
    Exactly the opposite to what you say, corporate commercialism makes bosses excessively greedy and for the sake of profit they are ready to scrap all benefits and to impose unjust working conditions on workers. Money-making is the top priority for them and it justifies anything! The unions are the only checks and balances in such working environment. If you are not sure, try working in McDonalds, KFC, or Walmart for the rest of your life and see how happy you will be! CUPE is defending a legitimate right for just working conditions for TAs, contract faculty and GAs. They ask for reasonable things. Even though, as students, we are desperate to resume study ASAP, we should understand their position and not blame only them for the strike.

  117. EndIt

    So if Pally Wally isn’t an e-picketer, does that mean he gets his strike pay by being on the line? I could have sworn he said he was a CUPE member.

  118. Cassie

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090110.YORK10/TPStory/National

    This article mentions about the summer semester possibly being in jeopardy.

    From what I heard a date for ratification vote won’t probably be announced until at least Monday and it will be issued by the Ministry of Labour.

  119. Yuck

    It’s not forced ratification, it’s a forced vote on ratification. They can still vote not to ratify.

    Mark: McDonalds, KFC, and Walmart have nothing to do with CUPE. They are all private sector employers. CUPE is only for government employers. You are comparing apples and oranges.

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