Union votes for return to bargaining table

Straight from the horse’s mouth:

CUPE 3903 MEMBERS VOTE TO SEND BARGAINING TEAM BACK TO THE TABLE

January 8, 2009 -TORONTO, ON,

At a general membership meeting today, nearly 90% of CUPE 3903 members in attendance voted to send their bargaining team back to the table with York University administration with a strong mandate to continue bargaining.

Although negotiations have progressed significantly in the past five days, the union affirmed that the university’s current offer does not yet address key priorities set out by the membership. The union feels confident that further negotiation will achieve a collective agreement that addresses these needs and end the strike soon.

“We’re very anxious to get back to class,” said Unit 1 member Cat Ashton, “and we look forward to doing so as soon as York agrees to a fair settlement.”

Though the two sides have come much closer and binding arbitration has been dropped from the table, the bargaining team has identified major shortfalls in some priority areas, notably job security for contract faculty. Members spoke at length about the need for a real commitment to improving the working conditions of contract professors and maintaining the existing levels of conversions into tenure-stream positions.

The union’s bargaining team is looking forward to going back to the table first thing Friday morning, with a renewed message of strength from the membership.

“We have a great deal of faith in the bargaining process,” said contract professor Ryan Toews, “and frankly, we were a little insulted that, this far into a strike, the employer would present such a clearly inadequate offer.”

The two sides will be meeting at 10:00 a.m. on Friday, January 9 to resume negotiations.

“We’re very anxious to get back to class,” said Unit 1 member Cat Ashton, “and we look forward to doing so as soon as York agrees to a fair settlement.”

Responses like this bother me. The Union, or at least the members, should be looking for the most expedient way back to the classroom that is equitable to everyone. The Union should not longer be rejecting University offers that are reasonable because they think they can get more. This is month 2 of this strike. It needs to end.

York’s full offer is available here:

Click Here

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263 Comments

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263 responses to “Union votes for return to bargaining table

  1. !..Frustrated..!

    “we will try and get the students Back in the Classroooms SOON”

    They Have Been Saying That for 60 days Now and Nothing Has Happpened Yet ! …… Its So Annoying to read Any of this Anymore …. The 2 sides are still sooo Far Apart…..

  2. Kelso

    Im not familiar with the bargaining process.. can CUPE not come back with an offer that they think is more reasonable at this time? or is York the only one who can make offers. Someone needs to budge…soon.

  3. Kelso

    what i’m trying to say is that it doesnt look like bargaining to me when we only here about the offers York is putting out there… it should be two sided no?

  4. tester

    And just to add, the full text of the offer is available at:
    http://www.yorku.ca/mediar/archive/Release.php?Release=1580

    Now we see what CUPE was to add to.

  5. Kelso

    bah im typing to fast.. sorry “…when we only hear* about the offers…”

  6. tester

    CUPE should make a counter offer today

  7. B

    3903 has yet to comeback with any reasonable offer.

  8. Kelso

    Ya, they should, even if it isn’t one York wants I want to see what CUPE has to offer. If they are soo sure about what they want, it shouldnt take too long for them to get it out there right?

    By the end of today or tomorrow there better be something out there for someone to work with. The clock is ticking.

  9. !..Frustrated..!

    And Now Cupe Willll Take Its Own Sweet Time in doing soooo …. and Plus Ask for Something that York Cannot Offer .. Therefore, The Strike Will continue Longer … and 50 000 Students will suffer YET AGAIN !

  10. Ree

    11-Week Strike Version 2.0, here we come. -_-

  11. flower

    i feel like the university has backed CUPE into a corner. they have offered a reasonable deal, we all know the only reason the union won’t except it is because they want 2 yr not 3. other than “we want to be part of the mass strike in 2010” which is not a respectable reason………. i don’t know how CUPE can justify it’s actions. they are refusing a deal mainly because it will not allow them to screw over the undergrads again in 2010! what respect I had for CUPE 3903 has slowly faded away.

  12. Gabby

    I’m so sick of this.. I’m going to get a full time job and if it’s good enough then I won’t go back this year. I can’t just sit around and wait for these idiots to figure things out. I’ll start fresh at a different school in September.. good riddance York!

  13. Kita

    Why does either side not care about the 50,000 students stranded in limbo?
    We’re suffering here, and York nor the Union want to comment or listen to what the students have to say. What I hate the most is that, we are stuck in the middle with absoluetly NO say in what happens to US; we left our education up to strangers.

  14. flower

    union wants a 2 yr deal, if university gives it to them = strike over.
    avoiding another strike 2 years from now is a way the university is looking out for us undergrads.

  15. 4th Year Student

    How much longer will this continue for? Nobody cares about the students who are caught in the middle…

    Does Cupe actually think that they will be offered a better deal? People are loosing their jobs right now and these assholes want more money.. if they want more money go work somewhere else.. enough of the strike..

    This is exactly why Unions should not exist..

    i hope they do not expect to come back to better working enviroment… i have lost all of the little respect i had for the TAs and the Faculty.. all of my TAs in the past have been awful..

  16. 4th Year Student

    Can government step in and force them to go back to work??

  17. ticked off

    I thought this was york’s final offer.
    bargaining again a day later doesn’t really add to the unions fear of not getting a better offer.
    RIDICULOUS

  18. Commuted

    It was never their final offer. York committed to continue bargaining ever before they surprised the union with their latest offer.

  19. fracas

    since wednesday, the union has been saying that they expect to go back to the bargaining table on Friday after the Thursday GMM and present a counter-proposal to this latest offer. I believe this is what is happening today. All along, only York has been posting its offers publicly. CUPE has not publicized their counters, except to members or in very general terms to the media, and I would be surprised if they start now. But just because they don’t post how they’ve moved today, it should not be interpreted as ‘they haven’t moved today.’

    Generally in bargaining, both sides present counter-proposals to each other throughout the days on various clauses still to be negotiated until they reach an agreement and ‘sign off’ on x clause. This is why bargaining takes very long, in most instances, and why it usually starts long before a strike vote is even taken.

    York would not be still at the table if the union wasn’t moving – if that was the case, it would be the clearest justification for requesting a forced ratification vote, and an argument to persuade union members that their bargaining team is not bargaining in good faith. So far, York has not requested a forced rat vote nor said the above.

  20. Kelso

    Fracas

    Thanks for the clarification 😀

  21. lun

    Isn’t it time to get a mediator yet?

    Government Of Ontario, where are you?

  22. fracas

    @kelso

    my pleasure:)

  23. FEDUP STUDENT!

    Looking at the evidence of the offer from the York website, I am beginning to believe Cupe is the one that doesn’t care about the students education, rather themselves and their money & benefits!

  24. It really boils my blood to see that Cupe is not williing to compromise on this. Here I am, I have lost my job and am just trying to get back to school, and these Cupe clowns are refusing a 10% increase! I hope these greedy TA’s Rot in HELL.

    They are not looking for a ‘fair deal’ they are looking for the University to bend over to thier every demand.

  25. WTF

    They are trying to treat these TA positions as ‘real jobs’ Cupe is upset that they dont have enough to live on after paying tuition..etc. Do they not realize that average students with part time jobs have to TAKE OUT LOANS just to keep thier head above water while going to school?

    No one cares about your ‘net’ income after tuition CUPE.

  26. Sigh.

    The university has updated their Academic Remediation, I don’t know what exactly is updated, but it says it is updated so it’s worth a look?

  27. !..Frustrated..!

    @ WTF

    I Agreee … This is Crazy ! … 10 % Increase Is a Lot and Plus The TAs Are Stilll Students ….

    They are Students and They GET Moneyyyyy ! And Now The Increase Of 10 % … Wht More Do they Expect?!

    Most Of the Students Have Soo Much debt After They Finish School and The TAs Get Sooo Much to Pay Off Tution AND Have some Extra money left OVER !!

  28. anonymous

    @kazaa…thank you for your post but if im correct lasst week omeone posted that there professor was certain wed be back by thursday..which was yesterday..and as usual they were wrong… i dont think anyone really knows when well go back you can speculate however in the end its left to Bylik and the union

  29. Rochel

    They’re TAs for 2-7 years MAX. That is not their entire life or career. TA-ing is a privilege not a friggin’ god given right. A lot of master students don’t TA and they manage just fine! Just like most of us undergrads who have to rely on OSAP. And the TAs who were all undergrads before should understand what they’re doing to our education but they don’t care. Self-righteous CUPE. THANKS CUPE! Thanks for pissing us all off!

  30. @!..Frustrated..!

    the way you type is so outrageous

  31. KAZZA

    Good Morning some more good news I got another email today which I will post below. As to which prof I believe more I think that at this point our profs are upset (some are supposed to be on research projects, some are just frustrated how behind they are), either way at least they are letting us now what they believe to be true (it is is an email from them after all I dont think they would lie)
    Here is the email below:
    Dear ,

    Thank you both for taking the time to inform us of the lack of clarity regarding remediation for weekend courses. The remediation information has been adjusted to address weekend courses and is now available on the web.

    We plan to hold information sessions for students on “moving forward” once the labour dispute has been settled. I would appreciate if you would forward to my attention any questions you feel need to be answered that we can address in the sessions.

    Regards,

  32. pissed

    For all the people that are saying that the York doesn’t care about us students, what is your justifications behind this?

    Do you seriously expect York to cave in and give CUPE what they demand just to end the strike?

    CUPE’s demands are fuckin ridiculous.

  33. KAZZA

    @ Pissed
    I agree with you. I have been speaking with York and the admin and they care, however it is not fair to the school or the students if the University gives them what they want. The Union is begining to sound a little like the unions of the 1930’s where bullying, scare tactics, enforcement ect were used to get what they want.

  34. Second year student

    This is getting extremely ridiculous. At this point, I’d rather have the fall semester scrapped and start fresh in the winter. I really hope York stays strong on a 3 year contract, ‘cuz there’s no way in hell I’m going through all this crap again in 2010.

  35. KAZZA

    @CUPE FRED

    Are you dumb??? seriously if you are challenged I wont rip in to you, if not wtf……
    Where else could you work as little as you do, with the pay and subsidies you receive and get the reference letter/experience you get???? TELL ME!!
    otherwise quit you job and try living in the real world.

  36. AndrewB

    I like making TV show references so I’ll make one here

    CUPE reminds me of those people on CSI’s who murder people and then turn to there lover and say “I was doing this for you! It was all for you!”

    That is just my impression. They are putting on this fight and saying they are fighting for us, but they are doing it for themselves, trying to beat the neo-liberal university. Yet they will tell us they are fighting for us.

    God forbid if I ever decide to finally write my piece for this website. It will just a big thing of simple direct language, with comparisons to TV and probably I’ll find a way to throw a hockey reference in it! Now who wouldn’t love that huh? lol

  37. KAZZA

    You know whats funny I have spoen with many good lawyers and the ongoing threats that are made by union members here and other places will be traced and used in a civil case being taken against the union
    Although stikes are legal there are limits and a bunch of immature people with to much power have gone to far. Saying give us what we want now or we will try and take it next year is actually counter productive to your side and in probably why not even the Toronto Star is on your side (and they supported Bob Rae back in the day that says a lot lol)

  38. AndrewB

    Umm, if we support CUPE 3903 it will happen again period. They want 2yrs so they can do this all again with everyone else in 2010. If you support the Universities 3yrs, they won’t be able to join in.

    Those are just the facts, not me saying who I support and don’t.

  39. 4th Year Student

    if you are not happy with what you earn then go work somewhere else.. wtf.. most of you are completely useless anyways… dont expect the students to welcome you back after the strike..

    everybody is getting laid off and you clowns want more money…. get ANOTHER JOB!!

    Unions should not exist in this country.. all they do is strike and take advantage of everyone.

  40. caitron

    @ lun:
    they already have a mediator…

  41. KAZZA

    4th year student:
    I agree with the statement we dont need unions. We have government bodies, labour laws and other laws to make sure employees are treated fairly by employers. We do not need unions to bully and fight for more than people with out unions receive

  42. Undergrad-aka cupe pawn

    I went to campus yesterday and while I was waiting for the picketers to let me through one of them came to tell me about their hardships and why they’re striking still. I asked if they would be voting on the latest offer and he said that York’s latest offer is a PR stunt that aims to make the public think they’re bargaining in good faith, so they had no plans to put it to a vote. He said me that this isn’t about money, it’s about quality education. Um, hello how are we getting a quality education by sitting at home watching York and Cupe fight like 5 year old kids who want the same toy? He actually had the audacity to tell me that I need to understand their side. Grow up Cupe, we’re in a recession and most people don’t know if they’ll still have a job tomorrow. Take what you’ve been given, go back to work and stop bitching, we’re all tired of hearing it.

  43. KAZZA

    My parents have two children in York. They have taken out a second mortage b/c neither of us quailified for OSAP. Me and my sister are each over $30,000 in debt and I work 40hours or more a week. I am sorry for you situation but alas I am now not getting my education so you can not take out another loan? Since you can work on campus it sounds why not a job at taco bell where you could work overtime?

  44. KAZZA

    oh and I will be paying student debt as will most of my peers for the next ten years it is the price of going to school, otherwise if you dont like it, learn a trade and make $100,000 a year as a plumber or electrician

  45. cancan11

    Isn’t the only thing that is getting in the way right now is the two year vs three year? Just wondering.

    @ Sigh.
    You mentioned that Senate made some changes in the Academic Remediation… where is that?

  46. 4th Year Student

    they told you about their hardships??? are you serious..i dont care about it… it was their choice to go on strike.. they should suffer… and they will suffer more when classes resume… students will not be friendly as they were before..

    what about my hardship? i’m a student who was suppose to graduate this year.. and by the looks of things it might not happen now.. im stuck.. im wasting time because these assholes wont settle..

  47. B

    CUPE Patel – did you not know the terms of your grad school package when you signed on with York? Clearly, you figured the benefits outweighed the costs and you accepted.

    Everyone has hardships to face. Appealing to students based on that emotional argument is purely idiotic. Especially given this is two months into the strike and things are especially aggravating for everyone all around. What makes what you face any worse off then the other 49,999 students?

  48. WTF

    CUPEs 2 years demand really shows what they are really about.. “Gimme now, and Gimme more later too !” They can fluff it up with all the victimizing they want. We see right through them.

    We need to make sure they dont get 2 years.. Look at what they are asking NOW !?!?!?!? Who knows what they’ll demand in 2010 !!!!!!!!!

  49. cancan11

    I found the website for the Academic Remediation:

    http://www.registrar.yorku.ca/disruption/current/remediation.htm#10

    It says it has been updated today… but I don’t see any changes.

  50. 4th Year Student

    the 50,000 students are suffering due to this..everyone has their own situation to deal with..

    this strike needs to end.. we pay enough for our education

  51. AndrewB

    @ CUPE Patel

    Yeah I’m sorry, but you having to repay debt is not a good enough reason. I’m $45,000 in debt over 6 years that I will have to repay. It was my choice not to work while I was at school and if I could find a dman good job that paid $30/hr for 10hrs of work a week, I’d be all for that right now. Because as it is, I can’t do 30hr a week with 6 classes that I have.

    I understand your situation, but the thing is, that was your choice. This is something you should have researched before coming so you knew exactly what you were getting into. Between me and Kazza+sister there is $105,000+ in debt.

    I understand it is hard, but to be perfectly honest with you if nothing else, when it comes to debt, I have to worry about myself. If you take ALL of CUPE’s TA/GA debt and ALL of York undergrads debt, it won’t be a shock to know which is bigger.

  52. 4th Year Student

    If these assholes wont settle can York start hiring new staff to replace them?

  53. FEDUP STUDENT!

    CLEARLY ON WEEK 8 AND MANY MORE TO COME AS IT SOUNDS…I FEEL THE DECISION WILL SOON BE MADE-OUR WHOLE YEAR WILL BE WHIPPED OUT!

  54. 4th Year Student

    I say we all start throwing eggs at cupe on a daily basis..

  55. KAZZA

    What makes you think that in 2011 you will get “even more”? What if it is because of comments like that the University is trying to stand thier ground? And what if the school did stand their ground?
    You think you have all this power, however there is always someone with more. Which is to say the government could decide to get involved. The conservatives could be elected in (I believe they would have put a stop to this by now)
    Either way we and nobody knows for sure what is going to happen. Your own union could settle this in the next few days and all this speculation will ave been a waste. What I mean by all this is you can not continue to make such inflamatory statements, eventually you will have to be back in the class room again, and you know we out number you. Seriously you say you will make our lives difficult, I am sure there are reasons you can be fired and if enough students complain…. All I am saying……

  56. sml

    straight up CUPE 3903 are selfish and expect way to much right now especially since our economy is on a verge of a recession. you guys are asking for way to much. other people in the world are just holding on to there jobs, where CUPE 3903 is asking for a pay raise and other financial benifits which they want to increase. CUPE 3903 need to look at a bigger picture, and realize what york university just offered them is more than what should be expected in order for any union to sign at this time in the economy.

  57. ShaunnyB

    For weeks I’ve said that York, like any stable government, refuses to negotiate with terrorists

    The fact that they are now is mind boggling in and of itself.

    Just venting here 🙂 But I know thousands of people agree with me

  58. B

    Laurier announced yesterday that they plan to cut 31 million from their budget over the next three years. These budget cuts are a consistent trend across Universities whose endowments took a huge hit because of the market – York is among them. Two year contracts, three year contracts, what difference does it make? Money is tight all around for the long run.

  59. aaaaaaaaahhh

    Whats with the people claiming they are from CUPE and telling us to support them or else…. lol trying piss off everyone in this blog

  60. flower

    being a TA is not a real job! you are a [edited by moderator] student!!!!!! to be honest, when I heard TAs got paid what they do I thought THAT was insane.
    if your looking for better job security and better wages… I have an idea… FIND A REAL JOB.

  61. Kelso

    so this is week 8 we are one here?? do they even count the christmas holiday as school time??

  62. B

    CUPE Patel – it was all laid out for you when you signed on for it. You took it. The benefits outweighed the costs and gripping about your hardships will not win you over any points. There are international undergrad students facing the same thing but they aren’t guaranteed one on-campus job to provide some alleviation. Even worse, when York allowed international students in Schulich to finish off their semester, the union condemned that action as appalling. Even your union doesn’t show sympathy for Internationals.

  63. Kelso

    come on sean we all know its fake by now.. give it up

  64. KAZZA

    I understand there are limitations on loans but everyone has there problems. Many students grades suffer because they need to work more. Life is about choices. You made the choice to come to Canada to this school knowing what you were getting in to. Life is not easy and you will not always get what you want, you have to make the most of what you have. Did you know York has a food bank? I have used it to feed myself if you need the info I will give it to you. Times are tough families are on E.I. people are not going to be able to afford to go and you are upset because you are hungry. You need to learn to suffer for what you want it will make the rewards better. Yes some students are privliged but they are far and few between. Most of us work 2 or 3 jobs carry 21 credits a semester and are cold and hungry sharing a 2 bedroom with 4 ppl it is what University is all about a life experience DEAL

  65. Fellow undergrads, think about it THIS way (positively):

    If I’m correct, the labour board can DECERTIFY a union if its workers DO NOT WORK for six months or more….so if this year does get cancelled, or if the strike goes on past May, then we can joyfully kiss those greedy bastards goodbye!!! 😀

    After all, once a union’s decertified the employer can fire EVERYONE without compensation.

    The chance of this happening is probably a fraction of a percent, but hey…hope is hope!

  66. Michael

    Wow,

    @Kazaa, CUPE Patel, etc: I think what CUPE Patel means to say is that as a TA, his contract does not permit him to work any other job not related to a TAship (I think you can acquire on campus research stuff but correct me if I’m wrong). Now many TAs simply get other jobs anyways, but I don’t believe it would be such a good idea to let a lot of people know about that as it’s against contract, so working on campus is out. For international students, they are able to work off campus if they apply for an international work permit, which are fairly easy to obtain, but you have to go through York to do that, thus jeopardizing your TAship.

    That being said, the “no other job” rule is in place because as a TA, you are still a student (or such was the initial assertion) and the school did not want the person to burn out. TAships are not, and were never meant to be a full on replacement for the cost of tuition… they are not, and were never meant to be a reward given to graduate students. The reason SO many graduate students are TAs is because of the experience that they are getting as a result. The countless class hours and administrative work required to be a successful TA is a quality piece of information to have on one’s resume, especially those looking to pursue a position as a Professor. In short, it’s supposed to be about the experience, not the cash.

    Students go into debt. This is the case and always has been whether tuition was $5000.00 or $500.00. The debt accrues until you get out of school, use the degree (and in the case of TAs, the experience) to get a good job, and start paying it back. This is life. I respect what you’re trying to do, but recognize that this utopian vision of having all students able to pay for university without going into debt is unrealistic at the very least. I’ve read through the university’s latest offer in full, and it’s really not bad. Members of the union speaking on this site say that you didn’t stay on strike for 65 days to concede anything, well, if I may, we the undergraduate students didn’t go on strike and didn’t cause this problem, yet we suffer from it at a scale far greater than you. You get the chance to make $200.00 a week, plus some of your benefits. We get nothing. We sit here, waiting for a small hope that negotiations don’t break down and that we’ll have someone to teach us again. You can say that you’re sorry, like almost every member of your union does when speaking to an undergraduate, but an apology means nothing unless you stop doing whatever you needed to apologize for in the first place. You have received a reasonable offer. Make a counter offer that the university can afford without enormous changes to how the university structures its budget, and end this. On your strike website, you have a counter of how much York is saving with you all on strike… put up a counter of how much the undergraduates are losing, and perhaps you’ll be able to see the real picture.

    Take Care

  67. Delicia

    @ B – no not international student – exchange students – for one semester – I would know – i’m an international! llool

    @ cancan11

    OMG wow – when will this end – and no there are no real changes to remediation – only that we know how many lessons we may get

    e.g. monday – 3 class sessions

    Or something like that – its in the revised senate remediation thing

  68. AndrewB

    @ CUPE Patel

    And I hope you can understand that you are ONE International student. How many international undergrads are there that are having hard times now because of this strike? The impression that you are giving off is “my education/expenses are more important then yours.” Again this is all down to choice. Nothing forced you to come to York but your want to learn. Is it fair you can’t work off campus? No, it isn’t. Is it fair that because you can’t work off campus I should have to perhaps lose my year of school? No, it isn’t.

    But as I always keep saying, it comes down to a choice. We all have different problems right now. Yours are being an international student, mine are being a 4th year student. And I hope you can understand and accept when I say, your problems are off no concern to me, and when you start putting your problems about mine (or others), people will tend to get pissed.

    You are trying to justify this strike through a personal issue you are having, but as I pointed out, you are just one of the many international students that come to York and I guarentee many are now suffering because of this. But just because you are international doesn’t mean I’m going to give you special treatment in all this. You are a student like everyone else, and you have bills to pay like everyone else.

  69. Delicia

    @ B – no not international student – exchange students – for one semester – I would know – i’m an international! llool

    @ cancan11

    OMG wow – when will this end – and no there are no real changes to remediation – only that we know how many lessons we may get

    e.g. monday – 3 class sessions

    Or something like that – its in the revised senate remediation thing

    @ CUPE patel – i understand – im in the same predicament – but my GPA is not as good lol – still i pay 15,000 – with no loans. And I havn’t got a job – its impossible to find one on campus.

  70. Kelso

    fine sean fine

  71. AndrewB

    Finding a job in school is hard as it is. Many people don’t want to take a chance on students, even more so those who are out of towners. I sent out 35-50 resumes in the summer, expecting at least 10 phone calls. I got 1 and that lead to nothing.

    My girlfriend was offered 3 different jobs. Every single one of them went back and screwed her over, all in ONE WEEK. We had to borrow money to help pay our rent in the summer.

    We basically live OSAP to OSAP. We don’t buy massive things, we don’t go out every weekend and spend $50+ on booze at the bar, we live a fairly simple boring life. I’ve accepted it because I know it will be for the better after. As someone said, take the pain now for a gain later.

  72. Seema

    GUS KANDILIS is FOR the STRIKE

    I REPEAT GUS KANDILIS IS SUPPORTING THE STRIKE

  73. B

    International students can’t work off campus because of Immigration Canada’s regulations. The fact that you are limited to on-campus employment is not YorkU’s fault. Lobby the government if you want that changed.

  74. aaaaaaaaahhh

    So what now ? how much longer do we have to wait? any1 have any clues?

  75. AndrewB

    I’d say at least a week or two more.

  76. FEDUP STUDENT!

    I think there is no time estimation and honestlly they want the year to be whipped out!

  77. pissed

    York’s endowment fund lost about $45 million this year and CUPE want’s more money.

    In the current state of our economy, they are lucky to have jobs.

    Get real

  78. education deprived

    @Sean – lol…I love the evil laugh for added effect…classic.

  79. KAZZA

    If you dont support the veiws of the union then speak against them otherwise yes you are the same as them and that does make you greedy

  80. education deprived

    @ Sean – actually, I hadn’t clicked on the link when I wrote the previous comment (which I guess I should have). I just did and it basically shut my whole computer down….and it is offensive and disgusting!!

  81. B

    CUPE Patel – it’s not like the Union gives out that form of consideration either. They condemn Osgoode and Schulich for resuming classes without consideration to the individual circumstances of those students.

    Yeah, you have hardships just like everyone else. But as an individual fighting for your right, you would be pretty weak. You benefit from the view of CUPE as a whole.

  82. L

    i have NO sympathy for these TAs and some need to stop trying to play the sympathy card. you make far more money then the majority of students do. youre an international student and your education costs more then mine? BOO FREAKIN WHO cry me a river you chose that!!!!!! you knew how much your education would cost..you knew how much money you would be making..YOU KNEW being an international student that there would be other costs to living such as rent and food. NOT MY PROBLEM. ive had it with this crap.what ever happened to the greater good. cupe doesnt give 2 shits about the students and we’re all suffering to benefit a few thousand TAs and their pockets.

  83. Nikki

    What about this whole government intervention thing? Can that happen?

  84. flushafleshfarm

    Bunch of kitten-eaters, I’ll tell you hwhat.

    Hello everyone. Buckle down. Try not to read too much. The info is more polluted than ever before.

    Odds of an 11th hour save are higher than any other scenario so be prepared to sit out a while longer.

    Odds of losing the year are still remarkably low.

    We will suffer together.

    Now you know who you elected to represent you. If anything, I’ve learned that our student government is useless. I always knew both the School and the Union are run by whoores, but the resume padders who call themselves our reps are impossibly impotent. It’s our inability to mobilize that is the most disheartening. Tens of thousands of students actually online every single day, talking to one another – THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WAS HAPPENNING IN 2001!!!! THIS COULD HAVE BEEN OUR EDGE!!!
    Maybe in 2010 WE will be ready.

    Stay strong everyone.

  85. 4th Year Student

    i say the students get together and start breaking some legs..

  86. L

    i say we go back to school without the damn TAs bc we dont even need them anyways. all the TAs ive ever had have done dick on a stick. sure there may be some good ones but i sure as heck havent encountered any. im a kine student and all of my exams are multiple choice so its not like they mark my exams. i also dont have any assignments or tutorials so i find it amusing that im sitting at home when i dont even need my freakin TAs

  87. Update

    @L
    I don’t think you are seeing the problem in the same way as some others, specufically those in the union. When TAs agreed to come to York, you are right, they knew what they were getting into. They were offered a contract, and other benefits and if they felt that this was acceptable, then they freely chose to come here. Unfortunately, for many TAs, in the time they have been here (as students who also teach) things changed.
    As an undergrad you also chose to come here to York. You knew the agreement, what tuition would be, what you could expect to pay for housing etc and you decided to choose York. Then, things changed. The strike happened. Not by your choice.
    Many of the clawbacks and benefits changes happened without TAs being consulted. Not by their choice.
    It seems to me that the situation is actually much more similar for grads and undergrads than you choose to believe. The only common denominator I see is the University who has the ability to put things back on track for grads (TAs) and undergrads alike.

  88. Leems

    Watch this video … hilarious and it seems like the CUPE members think they can stop it using their hands lol …. and no CUPE you are not superman.

  89. Artem

    What insanity has the strike driven students! Resorting to promoting random pornography websites… Oh, cruel, cruel world!

  90. ram

    @ all
    Here we go!! The one that we all waited for:: FORCED RATIFICATION
    The university has given an update today saying that it has requested the government to iniate a forced ratification as soon as possible.. The union did not make any changes to their existing proposals it seems..
    Here is the link.
    http://www.yorku.ca/mediar/archive/Release.php?Release=1582

  91. L

    @update

    you can try to pin this on the university all you want..im not buying it. so york changed some things on the TAs without “consulting” them…welcome to the work force. employers do this all the time. why dont we go ask some people at GM if they were “consulted” before losing their jobs. lets ask them about job security.
    in my opinion..the TAs have been given a 10% increase..yet they are still pushing for a 2 year contract and “job security”. in todays times..NO JOB IS SECURE. especially a freakin PART TIME job. they should take what theyve been given and run with it.
    i work in the recreation department for a city. i teach swimming. i have a government job. and i dont get all the benefits these TAs do..i dont make as much money as these TAs do..my job probably isnt as secure as theirs..and yet..im surviving..they can too

  92. Bobert

    umm… International Students in Ontario are allowed to work off campus provided they apply for a work permit this has been the case since 2006 on the condition that you work no more than 20 hours a week and maintain full time status : http://ogov.newswire.ca/ontario/GPOE/2006/04/27/c1500.html?lmatch=&lang=_e.html

  93. Suzy

    check the york site out u guys….university is appealing to the minister of labour

  94. Cupe Doll

    I’ve just been told the forced rat is on. Check York website.

  95. Suzy

    i doubt to see any change from that…but still

  96. flushafleshfarm

    @Cupe Doll

    How long is the forced rat process?

  97. Yorkie

    My thoughts exactly

  98. Yorkie

    And whatis this ‘secret ballot vote’ they talk about at the end?

  99. ram

    @ cupe doll
    Do you think this time the union will capitulate as it did in 2001? Because long time ago i remember reading on the cupe website that it will counsel its members so that this time they do not fall prey to the university’s anti labor strategies.. Do you think this time the union has a fair chance of triumph?

  100. Frustrated

    does anyone know what we should be expecting from a forced ratification?

  101. Does anyone think that a forced rat will actually doing anything? If this gets voted down, I am VERY scared for our year….

  102. Undergrad 2

    Forced Ratification vote process begins:
    source: http://www.yorku.ca/mediar/archive/Release.php?Release=1582

    Membership vote could get students back to class

    TORONTO, January 9, 2009 – In light of the refusal by the CUPE 3903 bargaining team to take the University’s last offer to their membership for a vote as requested two days ago, York University has requested that the Minister of Labour direct a supervised vote on the comprehensive offers for settlement made by the University on January 7 to its employees represented by CUPE 3903.

    At a meeting between the two parties today, CUPE 3903 did not bring forward any modifications to its existing positions, nor did it bring forward a counter-offer.

    A separate vote will be required for each of the three bargaining units of CUPE 3903 which represent approximately 950 contract faculty, 1,850 TAs and 550 GAs. The votes will be conducted as soon as they can be arranged by the Ministry of Labour. A simple majority vote in favour of each contract offer would mean the end of the strike and have students back in class as quickly as possible.

    “After five months of unsuccessful negotiations, we see this as a necessary step because it will give employees in each bargaining unit a chance to vote on our settlement offers, end this strike and get our students back to class,” said Alex Bilyk, spokesperson for the University.

    Talks between the University and CUPE 3903 resumed on January 3 and after 5 days of renewed bargaining the University tabled enhanced settlement offers for all three units. The total value of the University’s offer now stands at 10.7% over 3 years.

    Bilyk said there are few options left to end the strike: “The union still has some 75 outstanding demands totalling 15.8% over 2 years that would cost the University $9.9 million annually.”

    The union has previously refused to take all outstanding contract issues to binding arbitration, which would also end the strike.

    The University has recently successfully negotiated 3-year contracts with other campus unions, including CUPE 1356, which overwhelmingly ratified a 3-year contract with a 9.25 percent wage increase plus other contract improvements.

    Under Ontario’s labour relations laws, employers can ask for a secret-ballot vote of union members on a contract offer. The vote is conducted and supervised by the Ministry of Labour, with the voting location and days allocated for voting to be decided by the Ministry of Labour, after input from both the employer and the union.

    Full details of the University’s comprehensive offers for settlement have been posted on the York website.

  103. Ken

    So we can conclude the strike is over guys
    The forced rat will work for York

    And I’m sure most of you guys don’t really want to get back to school despite all the moaning and hatred going on here….

    Your wishes have come true. The school is on next week!

  104. Andrew

    @Frustrated

    I strongly oppose the strike, but I expect the university will lose. Forced rat votes almost always fail unless there is a big penalty for voting no. Personally, I thought the university would be smart enough to see this … for example they could have set a date by which the term would be lost, and called a forced rat vote just before that date.

  105. scared

    @ Ken

    How can it be on next week?

    doesnt the vote happen over a couple of days? and this being friday…it wont happen before monday.. cuz i dont think they ministry of labour works on weekends *rolls eyes*

  106. Bobert

    at the very least at there’s a chance an actual mandate will be made whether or not to accept the contract, instead of “strong mandates” based on 15-20% turnout garbage we’ve been seeing for the past 2 months

  107. Yorkie

    Can this forced rat. actually happen that soon so we’d have school next week?

  108. Yorkie

    Also does forced rat. force all members of Cupe t vote? Or just the ones that show up again?

  109. Mika

    No Yorkie. It will take quite a while and from what I hear York is going to lose on this one….

  110. ahhhh

    taken from yorku.ca website:
    it seems like they are enforcing a forced ratification vote. I guess from now, in 72 hours, the union members will vote under the supervision of the ministry of labour. I hope all the members take the time to look over York’s offer before going to vote. We’ll know what happens soon! The university is only allowed to use forced ratification once!

    York University initiates Supervised Vote on Offers for Settlement

    Membership vote could get students back to class

    TORONTO, January 9, 2009 – In light of the refusal by the CUPE 3903 bargaining team to take the University’s last offer to their membership for a vote as requested two days ago, York University has requested that the Minister of Labour direct a supervised vote on the comprehensive offers for settlement made by the University on January 7 to its employees represented by CUPE 3903.

    At a meeting between the two parties today, CUPE 3903 did not bring forward any modifications to its existing positions, nor did it bring forward a counter-offer.

    A separate vote will be required for each of the three bargaining units of CUPE 3903 which represent approximately 950 contract faculty, 1,850 TAs and 550 GAs. The votes will be conducted as soon as they can be arranged by the Ministry of Labour. A simple majority vote in favour of each contract offer would mean the end of the strike and have students back in class as quickly as possible.

    “After five months of unsuccessful negotiations, we see this as a necessary step because it will give employees in each bargaining unit a chance to vote on our settlement offers, end this strike and get our students back to class,” said Alex Bilyk, spokesperson for the University.

    Talks between the University and CUPE 3903 resumed on January 3 and after 5 days of renewed bargaining the University tabled enhanced settlement offers for all three units. The total value of the University’s offer now stands at 10.7% over 3 years.

    Bilyk said there are few options left to end the strike: “The union still has some 75 outstanding demands totalling 15.8% over 2 years that would cost the University $9.9 million annually.”

    The union has previously refused to take all outstanding contract issues to binding arbitration, which would also end the strike.

    The University has recently successfully negotiated 3-year contracts with other campus unions, including CUPE 1356, which overwhelmingly ratified a 3-year contract with a 9.25 percent wage increase plus other contract improvements.

    Under Ontario’s labour relations laws, employers can ask for a secret-ballot vote of union members on a contract offer. The vote is conducted and supervised by the Ministry of Labour, with the voting location and days allocated for voting to be decided by the Ministry of Labour, after input from both the employer and the union.

    Full details of the University’s comprehensive offers for settlement have been posted on the York website.

  111. Soha

    ANdre hs a good point. Several people forsee York’s loss …

  112. Ken

    York wont lose this one
    Forced rat always work. I’m just happy those of you pretending to be missing school (which is bull**** and a lie) are getting it!

  113. Noman

    No Ken. It is serious. There will be a demonstration tomorrow (sat.). York has pulled the wrong one this time.

  114. Yorkie

    Do they always work? Cupe did resist a forced rat. vote once didn’t they? I remember reading about that towards the begining of this strike.

  115. scared

    when can the forced rat happen?

    as early as tomorrow? and how long after that can we go back to school? anyone have any ideas?

  116. Yorkie

    If this vote doesn’t work though, favour definitely tips in favour towards the union. York putting ou their trump card only proves how desperate they are now…

  117. Noman

    @ scared

    if (a big IF) York wins, after at least 10 days.

  118. Noman

    @ Yorkie

    The wait is over. York is losing its last chance.

  119. CUPE member with child

    York’s statement: “TORONTO, January 9, 2009 – In light of the refusal by the CUPE 3903 bargaining team to take the University’s last offer to their membership for a vote as requested two days ago, York University has requested that the Minister of Labour direct a supervised vote on the comprehensive offers for settlement made by the University on January 7 to its employees represented by CUPE 3903.”

    Cupe’s vote at the GMM last night clearly contradicts the universiy’s assertion that the bargaining team ‘refused’ to take university’s latest offer to the GMM. Here’s the very motion and result of York’s latest offer at the GMM. See who’s lying to you and insulting your intelligence?

    Moved and seconded by the joint bargaining team and executive of CUPE 3903:

    “Whereas we recognize that the employer’s latest pass does not adequately address the key priorities as outlined by members of CUPE 3903,
    BIRT we deem the employer’s latest pass to be inadequate.
    BIFRT we endorse the Bargaining Team’s decision to return to the table with the strong support of the membership behind them.
    BIFRT we condemn the employers attempt to bypass our representatives at the bargaining table and demand that they negotiate in good faith.

    For: 429 (89.9%)
    Against: 48 (10.1%)
    Abstentions: 28

    Thanks Mr. Bilyik. I love you!!!

  120. Shimoo

    Again, it seems we have to stay home for an indefinite time.

    Here is a reply I go from my TA a few minutes ago:

    “Hi …

    Yes, I just heard about the new forced rat. from my lab mates. Almost everybody in our lab (including me) think that York is rushing it a bit.

    Having said that, we plan to vote against York. I know it is not the answer you expected to hear from a science student (TA) but please try to put yourself in our shoes.

    Good luck

    … ”

    So not only art students were against York previously, it seems that now TAs from other departments are going to vote agains them.

    It is pathetic.

  121. Yorkie

    “A simple majority vote in favour of each contract offer would mean the end of the strike”

    What exactly does it mean by this? Majority for each part of the offer proposed?

    Also does every unit have to have majority for the strike to be over? Or just a few?

  122. frust

    @ shimoo

    OMG

  123. Curious Yorkie

    @ CMWC,
    Thanks for the updates. From your message, what I am inferring is that, the Union will vote NO on York’s forced ratification card as well. Is that right?

  124. Yorkie

    Can’t know anything until it happens…

    -_-

  125. tester

    @ CUPE member with child

    York requested that a ratification vote take place, not a motion confirming that you want more.

  126. Andrew

    Up to now, I think York has played the strike almost perfectly, but this is a major blunder. Meanwhile, the union that couldn’t shoot straight has just been handed a huge gift. York’s got all that high-priced union-busting help, and this is the best they could come up with?

    The only possible strategy I can identify here is that York is trying to give the government cover to enact back-to-work legislation. But even that makes little sense: the legislature isn’t slated to be back in session for a month.

  127. CUPE member with child

    @Curious Yorkie:

    While nobody can say with 100% certainty how the vote will turn out, if I had any money I would bet the farm that Cupe will be rejecting York’s offer.

    From my understanding each unit’s votes are tabulated separately – so if unit 1 accepted it, while units 2 and 3 rejected then unit 1 would still be on strike. I would seek confirmation on that before taking it as fact though.

  128. yocoolma

    @ Yorkie:

    it will indeed. I might go to the demonstration tomorrow. I just heard that shoukri has come out of his nest too. dunno man.

  129. AndrewB

    As someone said, have to wait and see. We all know the GMM was not filled with every member, and that there were a lot of “radical’ members and people who wanted this to continue at the meeting. So the results are not surprising in the least.

  130. fuka

    GUYS ….

    PLEASE DO SOMETHING. XXX

    MY BUDDY JUST CALLED ME TO SAY THE TERM IS GOING TO BE CANCELLED.

  131. Yorkie

    Ok, so what does ‘going to demonstration’ mean?
    Not familiar with all this lingo…

  132. Frustrated

    so does anyone know when is the voting taking place?!

  133. Curious Yorkie

    Thanks for the response CMWC! We really appreciate your updates! 🙂

  134. Yorkie

    @fuka

    For the tme being nothing’s being cancelled until the Senate says that it is. They call the shots on that…

  135. B

    The Ministry organizes this. The vote will take place when they announce it. There is a process to follow, notifications to send out and an official vote date to be set in the not too distant future.

  136. CUPEsupport

    I dont get why everyone’s so mad at CUPE. They’ve been fighting for what they want and York hasnt been responding. Also, keep in mind that YORK was the one who suspended classes.

    Also, keep in mind that the economy is slowly burning to the ground. Most of us have jobs and are makkng a lot of money right now. Just be happy that you have a job.

    Keep Positive.

  137. Update

    @ L
    Yet again, I think we are simply looking at the same issues from different perspectives. I agree with you that we have to play with the cards we are dealt. Unfortunately, sometimes we are dealt good cards, sometimes bad. However, if we have a chance to change the cards we are dealt (i.e. getting another job, increasing our education/skills) we should…right? That’s exactly what the union is doing, by striking. They are not happy, so they are changing things. The strike is perfectly legal, and is a last resort effort to settle an dispute with an employer. I’m not denying that it sucks for all the undergrads who are forced out of school to get the Universities attention (because it does) but is is necessary in this case. It may not make you happy, but it is the hand you are dealt. You too, need to decide what YOU can do to make the situation better rather than just being angry and blaming the TAs

  138. yocoolma

    Demonstration means going out in arms to protest and let the world of our rights of work and freedom
    This is truly a fight against imperialism and the Doctor Shoukri himself who has been a toy in the hands of York’s capitalistic administration

    We will ignite a revolution and go down the history of unions as warriors who fought for justice and their long supressed rights in their work

    Viva la Revolution
    Brothers in arms,
    CUPE 3903

  139. hahahahahah @ yocoolma

  140. gsp

    Do all members have to vote in forced ratification?
    (I assuming no, but can someone confirm this?)

  141. Union member

    No, I do not believe everyone MUST vote, however, I suspect that many more union members (both in support and against) will show up to let their voices be heard. This is why you should now focus your attention on emailing TAs etc and asking them to vote.

  142. yocoolma

    @ gsp
    Yes everyone has to vote but I’m voting a big NO!

  143. Frustrated

    would it be safe to say that those who live on res should probably come back to campus this weekend….

    ridiculous– how everything is up in the air again….

  144. theowne

    Man, more and more CUPE members trolling here, still don’t realize that after two months we want to go back to school, not hear CUPE members whining about how unfair their lives are. CUPE has the worst PR people ever.

  145. Union member

    @theowne
    Would you rather a one-sided whine-fest? That will not accomplish much. Ennlightenment can only come from hearing both sides of the argument.

  146. RS

    I don’t know where everyone stands on this whole subject by now but I don’t see anything good coming out of this. I am in my first year at York, but this is not the first post-secondary program that I am completing; my opinion, there should be a choice. As there are many whom are graduating and want to return to class, no one should stop them if the strike is over. But for first, second, third year students who wish to have a smooth Sept – April year, they should have a choice of returning next year. We, students, are not dogs that are told when to go to class; we paid for a service and should get exactly what we paid for… others who want to continue with a 13-day semester, I bid you good luck. There is no sense in cramming 2 months in 13 days, especially with a four to five digit price tag.

  147. B

    Theowne- It’s probably because it’s -12 out without the windshield and you can get your strike pay for e-picketing.

  148. Update

    @B
    very clever.
    Is the windshield kind of like the “wind-chill” factor?

  149. Yorkie

    @RS

    I have t be with you on that one. Been feeling that way for a couple of weeks now. There should be a vote. Quite frankly I don’t care about the fate of the Fall semester anymore, only that it will not forbode well for my GPA…

  150. Yorkie

    …Well I obviously DO care about my GPA. But I know forsure now that the Fall semester is going to royally screw me over if it actually does go to the end like the Senate wnats it to…

  151. Undergrad

    Quote from yocoolma
    January 9, 2009 at 10:54 am

    “Demonstration means going out in arms to protest and let the world of our rights of work and freedom
    This is truly a fight against imperialism and the Doctor Shoukri himself who has been a toy in the hands of York’s capitalistic administration

    We will ignite a revolution and go down the history of unions as warriors who fought for justice and their long supressed rights in their work

    Viva la Revolution
    Brothers in arms,
    CUPE 3903”

    This just gave me a good laugh. Stop living in a dream world you clueless idiots. You and your sorry excuse for a union have been a massive embarrassment for the York U community.

    EVERYONE hates you guys.

  152. Nikki

    @ ahhhh

    How do you know forced ratification can only be used once? Cause if that’s the case, we’re never going back.

  153. Yorkie

    @Nikki

    It’s the law. It can, will and only will ever be used once. If that doesn;t work, then it’s back to the negociation tables.

  154. B

    Update – cheers to you! You picked up on a typo. Like no one in the history of the world has ever done that!

  155. Yorkie

    It’s the university’s only trump card, besides government intervention.

  156. Union member

    It is true, forced ratification can only be used once in the barganing process…however, the University is not stupid. This MAY be a good time to try it because despite the appearance of the union being in solidarity (i.e. the 90% vote) this number really only captures a small portion of the member (the radical ones). Only 15% of the union showed up to vote for the strike in the first place. There is a good chance that there are enough TAs who are equally annoyed/frsuterated by the strike that they will vote against the union. In my personal experience as a science TA, I do not know a single grad student who is supporting the union and picketing because we feel we are well taken care of by the university, as opposed to many Arts TAs who seem to have a beef. I suspect that many will vote against the union for this reason.

  157. RS

    If your GPA is important to you; I really don’t see how saving the year is a good thing. In the end your final exam will be worth more than half of your final mark; some would assume that this is good. I don’t know about any of you, but I didn’t pay to be self taught and then tested on unchecked progress. If this wasn’t a large corporate entity, I assume it would be considered fraud.

  158. theowne

    @Union Member….

    But this rat vote isn’t mandatory isn’t it? So won’t the so-called “radicals” override again?

  159. Update

    For the record, union members cannot choose to not picket an “troll the internet” for pay instead. Those who are online are here because they are interested in helping ease the problems and shed light on the situation (or at least give a different perspective).

  160. Yorkie

    @RS

    Hey, I only said I didn’t care about losing the Fall semester because it is a possibility. I know losing the year is impossible, but if it were possible, I vote for it. As what has ben reiterated over and over again, this is not what we paid for.

  161. york's bitches

    CAncel the the year , take the hit , its not my problem , let me move on with my life already. !!!!!

  162. AndrewB

    @ theowne

    think of it like an election. Many people don’t care about the little shit that happens before, or doing pre-polls and all that. But when the big vote happens, everyone comes out.

    Members don’t have to sit at a meeting for 3-4 hours waiting to vote. They go to one place, cast the vote, and go home. They have all day to do so (I believe) and this way, when ever is best for them to show up they can, and those with children don’t need sitter. So you will see more people showing up.

  163. yocoolma

    We are not going back to school!

  164. Poor Student

    I’ve been horriblly inconvenienced by this strike, but I will not complain.

    I am very proud to live in a country where free association and collective bargaining are respected and protected as the rights of free men and women!!!

    Viva le EDUCATION!!!!!!!

  165. Yorkie

    Any time soon. Give it at least a week or two.

  166. yocoolma

    Doctor Shoukri will make a media appearance tonight addressing the strike and the forced ratification process
    It will be interesting to see what he says in public!

  167. Union member

    No, I do not believe that it is mandatory, but let me assure you undergraduate students are not the only ones who are frusterated and annoyed by the strike. I do not say this for sympathy (only to prove a point)…any member who does not support the union gets doubly screwed. I have not been paid since they strike began, my studies have been screwed up too, and despite the cancellation of classes the university has continued to withdraw automatic tuition payments (which should come out of my paycheque, but since they cancelled it, it comes out of scholarship money leaving me very much in debt). For these reasons, myself and others will go out and vote against the union.

  168. RS

    Personally, I want my money back and start life…. forget York.. never investing my money in them again. A waste… I got enough job offers but this damn strike is BS

  169. sam

    This is crazy the only thing that this is going to prove is what has been going on for the past 60 days, the cupe will not give up just because there is a supervised vote by the ministery who really cant intervine at all. This is just a stint by york to show that they are doing something to get us back but in reality its just BS

  170. sam

    At this point in time I cant even remember my schedule and I’m so out of the loop with everything it would be best to just cancel the semester and start over, unless york is willing to give us the proper amount of time that we are normally subjected to inorder to complete our courses, then it will be difficult to get the grades that i want and deserve.

  171. yocoolma

    The important thing which we should not forget is there is no going back unless the imperalist Shoukri accepts the defeat and recognize the rights of our TAs and students

    Forced Ratification is another weapon employed by capitalists to destroy the union and freedom loving workers

    Viva la Revolution

  172. AndrewB

    I can see York’s point though. The union was suppose to bring back a counter-offer and by all accounts they didn’t/it was the same as always. They are still far apart, and talks are taking way to long. This is a chance for them to get it done now dealing with all members and not the select few who bother to show up at GMM meetings. 600 people showed up the GMM. 600 of 3400 people. So 2800 still have a say it what happens.

    I don’t put much into what people say on blogs and in emails regarding their choice on Yes/No, but as always, people with the union of course will always be more vocal about it. It happens a lot in every election.

  173. Commuter

    @ sam

    You won’t even need to know your schedule. Actually it’s a good thing you forgot it.

    Because if we go back on a Wednesday, according to my interpretation of the Senate bulletin about having classes on virtual days:

    – Monday classes could be on a Wednesday,
    – Tuesday classes could be on Thursday,
    – Wednesday classes could be on a Friday,
    – Thursday classes could be on a Monday,
    – Friday classes could be on a Tuesday.

    This all depends on the timing of course. Add/subtract 1 day for a Tuesday or Thursday resumption.

  174. sam

    LOL ,im gunna need a course just to learn how to get to my classes let alone doing the advanced accounting and tax courses im in. lol

  175. aaaaaaaaahhh

    Let’s just hope this works, i’m just wondering how long does a forced ratification take?

  176. Union member

    I’m hearing (unfortunately) as much as another 2 weeks before the vote can even be set up. There is a meeting going on right now (down the hall from me) telling the profs exactly what to expect. I will update the blog when I find out.

  177. york's bitches

    @ union member – much appreciated.

  178. Yorkie

    I thought one of the reasons why a forced rat. vote was so dangerous to union members was because it takes so little time to take effect and the union wouldn’t be able to set up a GMM to discuss it, no?

  179. Dd

    I find it a bit surprising that this meeting going on is so open to public ears…

  180. Commuter

    @ union member

    I can’t recall who it was that told me this (but I know that it was either CUPE Doll or CUPE member with child) but in the 2001 strike, they sent out the notification of the forced ratification, and the vote was held a week or two later.

    Correct me if I’m wrong you two, but wasn’t the cards mailed out over the Holidays, and the vote was held the 1st or 2nd week in January?

  181. Union member

    @Dd
    Ha ha. Good critical thinking, I suppose that did sound a little suspect. Let me clarify, I can’t physically hear what is being said, I will ask my supervisor when he returns from the meeting. The department is being briefed by the Dean.

  182. Union member

    I am unaware of how it worked in the last strike, hopefully Cupedoll or cupe w/child can answer that for you.

  183. AndrewB

    You disappoint me union member!

    What, you can’t take a glass and go up to the door, or you can’t find a stethoscope and sit under the table! lol

  184. Union member

    I live below the poverty line remember…where how can I afford either of those? (just joking)

  185. AndrewB

    Well played!

  186. I dont know why all these lower class news anchors keep asking that Koopsman fellow on to discuss the strike.
    People will do anything for ratings.

    10pm Weeknights.. The National… CBC

    What you know ’bout that fool?!?!

    PEACE

  187. A

    Does anyone know when the forced ratification vote will be held?

  188. JMac

    “Forced Ratification is another weapon employed by capitalists to destroy the union and freedom loving workers”

    Yawn …. Forced ratification is a benefit employed by a democratic society to give union members, who may have been intimidated by their hard line union executives, an opportunity to vote on a contract offer that the union did not consider worth letting its membership vote on.

    You aren’t being forced to vote in favour, you are just being forced to vote. You still have the power, just not as much as you did over your membership before.

  189. AndrewB

    See that is what gets me. If they put it to a vote, and the Union votes in favor of this offer, what does that say about all the people who are all radical about this? Are you going to say, you were right and the majority were wrong?

    I would honestly hate to be in a class with these people, because they would be pissed off about not getting a better deal and striking a blow against the University. Lucky for me, I have one TA, even though I am an arts students.

  190. Anon

    I never replied to anything yet, but P. Mansbridge just cracked me up, lol, imagine him being on this blog, hahahaha

  191. A

    Does anyone know when the forced ratification vote will be held?

    Can anyone give me an educated guess of when the members of CUPE will be forced to vote?

  192. AndrewB

    No date has been set, it was just announced a few hours ago, and no one knows how all 3400 cupe members will vote.

    Read the news, and you will get the information such as dates and times that you need.

  193. Union member

    I was just told (by my prof who came from a degbriefing) that the vote must take place within 10-14 days.
    For what it is worth

  194. Dd

    The Ministry needs to grant the request.

    No one knows anything for the moment.

    If granted, according to what people say happened in 2000/01, two weeks.

  195. aaaaaaaaahhh

    Someone answer ‘A’ please lol, i wanna know too

  196. Union member

    For those interested in some more information here is a link to York posting about supervised votes
    http://webapps.yorku.ca/NegotiationsUpdates/doc/Communication.pdf

  197. EnoughIsEnough

    I heard on the radio that york stopped negotiations at 2 today and pulled the forced ratification card.

  198. EnoughIsEnough

    Looks like I’m late… *scrolls up to read

  199. AndrewB

    @ A and aaaaaaaaahhh

    I did answer the question. It just happened and there is no set date in stone yet on when the vote will take place. Keep reading either this site, CUPE/York’s sites or I just go to google news and get all the media’s sites. It will give the details out when they get them.

    As for wanting to know how CUPE will react, well of course no one can know for sure. 3400 people have to vote and each has to make up their own mind.

  200. Commuter

    Is CUPE allowed to hold GMMs before the forced ratification vote?

  201. Annoyed

    When will CUPE realize that they are holding 50,000 students hostage because they are being selfish, greedy and unreasonable. I had very little respect for CUPE going into this, now I think there should just be a mass firing of them all and all new T.A’s who WANT jobs, to be hired in their places. They should value and honor the opportunity to be a T.A, not everyone is lucky enough to get such a position. Why are they taking it out on the students, when it’s their own fault that they’ve taken 10 years to do their PhD, riding on the universities funds. How about they realize that T.A.-ing isn’t meant to be a permenant position and finish their education and move on. TAs didn’t even used to be paid!!
    How can they make such outlandish demands in a recession? I thought you had to be somewhat intelligent to make it to Masters or PhD level, clearly I was mistaken.

  202. Yorkie

    More info and less venting please…

  203. Commuter

    CUPE’s latest round of propaganda, which is the direct opposite (word for word) of some of the things the York bulletin said:

    —————–

    Employer Forces Ratification Vote

    January 9, 2009 (3PM)

    Yesterday (Thursday, January 8th) at a general membership meeting, the bargaining team and executive presented the employer’s latest offer to the membership. The offer was resoundingly rejected by the membership, with 90% of members in attendance voting to refrain from sending the offer to ratification. In response, instead of bargaining at the table, the employer has notified CUPE 3903 that it has begun the process of holding a forced ratification vote.

    What is a forced ratification vote? A forced ratification vote (what they refer to as a “supervised vote”) is, essentially, a loophole in the labour laws that gives the employer the power to circumvent the bargaining process—to contact striking members directly and compel them to vote on a deal of the employer’s own choosing.

    The employer is only legally allowed to use it once. The forced vote is a powerful instrument that the employer uses in order to maximize confusion and minimize the need to make meaningful movements at the table.

    Needless to say, the union is disappointed that the employer has once again walked away from the bargaining process. This disappointment is compounded by the fact that the deal does not adequately address our three main priorities:

    Job Security (Unit 2)
    Graduate Funding (Units 1 and 3), and
    Funding (All Units).

    The union is encouraging all members to reject this offer by voting no. The employer is counting on our members settling for a concessionary offer.

    Unions that are able to beat a forced ratification find that they are able to put the bargaining team in an immensely strong position. Your no vote will signal to the employer that the offer is not adequate, and as such, they will need to table an offer that addresses our three main priorities. In future negotiations, their forced offer becomes the floor for a settlement, as they cannot avoid bargaining at the table any longer.

    VOTE NO TO FORCED RATIFICATION!

    Please check for further updates as further details will be posted regularly. Union members will receive packages that give more specific information on the employer’s offer.

  204. Worried

    Latest York release:

    What does everyone think will happen with this release?

    York University initiates Supervised Vote on Offers for Settlement

    Membership vote could get students back to class

    TORONTO, January 9, 2009 – In light of the refusal by the CUPE 3903 bargaining team to take the University’s last offer to their membership for a vote as requested two days ago, York University has requested that the Minister of Labour direct a supervised vote on the comprehensive offers for settlement made by the University on January 7 to its employees represented by CUPE 3903.

    At a meeting between the two parties today, CUPE 3903 did not bring forward any modifications to its existing positions, nor did it bring forward a counter-offer.

    A separate vote will be required for each of the three bargaining units of CUPE 3903 which represent approximately 950 contract faculty, 1,850 TAs and 550 GAs. The votes will be conducted as soon as they can be arranged by the Ministry of Labour. A simple majority vote in favour of each contract offer would mean the end of the strike and have students back in class as quickly as possible.

    “After five months of unsuccessful negotiations, we see this as a necessary step because it will give employees in each bargaining unit a chance to vote on our settlement offers, end this strike and get our students back to class,” said Alex Bilyk, spokesperson for the University.

    Talks between the University and CUPE 3903 resumed on January 3 and after 5 days of renewed bargaining the University tabled enhanced settlement offers for all three units. The total value of the University’s offer now stands at 10.7% over 3 years.

    Bilyk said there are few options left to end the strike: “The union still has some 75 outstanding demands totalling 15.8% over 2 years that would cost the University $9.9 million annually.”

    The union has previously refused to take all outstanding contract issues to binding arbitration, which would also end the strike.

    The University has recently successfully negotiated 3-year contracts with other campus unions, including CUPE 1356, which overwhelmingly ratified a 3-year contract with a 9.25 percent wage increase plus other contract improvements.

    Under Ontario’s labour relations laws, employers can ask for a secret-ballot vote of union members on a contract offer. The vote is conducted and supervised by the Ministry of Labour, with the voting location and days allocated for voting to be decided by the Ministry of Labour, after input from both the employer and the union.

    Full details of the University’s comprehensive offers for settlement have been posted on the York website.

  205. york student

    @ cupe members(CMWC, cupe doll etc) , please tell us how/when the forced rat vote occurs or occured the last time

  206. frustrated

    so when are going back go school? sometime in next week?

  207. Yorkie

    Not likely. I think it was said earlier 10-14 days to set out a place and for voting to occur…

  208. John Locke

    The union strikes again…

  209. frustrated

    10-14 days.. at least I can start catching up on my reading and assignments.. ugh..

  210. ram

    Let us assume that it might take two more weeks for this crap to end. Even if we get back on the 26th ( allowing 2 weeks for the strike to end) what is the use of the remediation. We will need atleast 1 month for the fall semester to complete( 13 class days + 12 exam days = 25 weekdays). I am really more frustrated looking at this compressed remediation (lol). I think we are gonna start summer only in june. happy!!!

  211. Undergrad-Aka cupe pawn

    @ Ken

    I’m fairly certain that York held a forced rat near the end of the 2001 strike and it failed. I don’t think there’s any guarantee that it will pass. We just have to hope and wait.

  212. Yorkie

    @Undergrad-Aka cupe pawn

    Yeah, that’s what I thought too. Then they negociated the rest…

  213. Commuter

    @ Cupe Pawn

    It failed on units 1 & 3 and passed on unit 2 (the profs, who always cave, as they just want to teach the students).

  214. John Locke

    At this point, everyone should continue OR start readings, at the very least. It is still hard to suggest to everyone that doing assignments are critical. This is simply due to the fear that some assignments may be axed upon our return.

  215. Undergrad-Aka cupe pawn

    @ Commuter

    So if that happened this time, would they still suspend classes based on the fact that 2 units are still striking?

  216. Yorkie

    Ah, that makes sense. Yea, out of all the units, I guess they get the worse end of the strike. They get desperate faster. Lol

  217. Yorkie

    Since it was 2 units vs 1, they continued striking I think. ~_~

  218. E

    Please accept the deal CUPE Members…things have gone on too long!!
    CUPE and York U are at fault and the only ones suffering are the students…how is that fair?!

    You are TAs for God’s sake…it’s not meant to be serious job, it’s supposed to help with tuition and such….

    If you reject the deal , then i pray that BTW legislation is introduced and CUPE gets nothing.
    I feel little to no pity

    Also, the York U Admin should all resign they are disgraces and should hang their heads in shame

    The only group that matters are the students here and they are being ignored….stupid!

  219. Undergrad@York

    I would love to know what yorkstrike2008 thinks of this, as well as speculation from Cupe Member with Child, and Cupe Doll. Please tell us what you think/predict from this forced ratification vote.

  220. fenn

    so Yorkstrike2008, you’re willing to have us put up with porn, spam, viruses, profanity, racism, sexism (not to mention abominations such as “loose” instead of “lose”) etc on this site, but as soon as cupe members begin posting useful information here, you post the notice below and close off comments on one of the threads – i would say that your bias is showing (not that it’s been too hidden) – either this site is open to everyone (hence ‘community’ – your word and big e-gesture) or it’s just another yorkantistrike/hostage/etc etc platform/facebook/blog (getting to be oh so tedious to the rest of us in the york community who are just trying to get up to the minute information and are willing to plow through the endless whiney posts about homework etc here to do so) – so please make up your mind about your censorious guidelines – and no, i’m not cupe affiliated in any way, but I do find cupe’s posts (from members of all political stripes) informative – infact, this blog has become a good source of up to minute information so don’t ruin your good work to date – keep this the premier site of up to date information and ensure your guidelines minimize the idiot posts and not the informational ones; irrespective of where they are coming from…thanks

    Furthermore, you are legally accountable for anything you say on this website and anywhere else on the internet. If I find threats of violence or recounts of violence I will report such comments with your IP Address to the authorities. Please remember to keep the comments clean and productive.

    Thank you

    YorkStrike2008

  221. fenn

    wrt post above – i’m referring to your thread ‘notice: beware of e-picketers’….

  222. yorkiee

    anyone know the likeliness that the school year will be cancelled?

  223. Jon

    All of this is like watching a really cheesy soap-opera…will they/won’t they? And just like any soap, it drags on forever with the same bullshit. I’m getting sick and tired of it all…where’s my meds…

  224. Undergrad

    York gives the cupe3903 peanuts they make peanut butter and eat it.
    Now if York forces them to eat peanuts they will chew it and spit it on the administrations face.

    This is what I mean:

    Employer Forces Ratification Vote

    January 9, 2009 (3PM)

    Yesterday (Thursday, January 8th) at a general membership meeting, the bargaining team and executive presented the employer’s latest offer to the membership. The offer was resoundingly rejected by the membership, with 90% of members in attendance voting to refrain from sending the offer to ratification. In response, instead of bargaining at the table, the employer has notified CUPE 3903 that it has begun the process of holding a forced ratification vote.

    What is a forced ratification vote? A forced ratification vote (what they refer to as a “supervised vote”) is, essentially, a loophole in the labour laws that gives the employer the power to circumvent the bargaining process—to contact striking members directly and compel them to vote on a deal of the employer’s own choosing.

    The employer is only legally allowed to use it once. The forced vote is a powerful instrument that the employer uses in order to maximize confusion and minimize the need to make meaningful movements at the table.

    Needless to say, the union is disappointed that the employer has once again walked away from the bargaining process. This disappointment is compounded by the fact that the deal does not adequately address our three main priorities:

    Job Security (Unit 2)
    Graduate Funding (Units 1 and 3), and
    Funding (All Units).

    The union is encouraging all members to reject this offer by voting no. The employer is counting on our members settling for a concessionary offer.

    Unions that are able to beat a forced ratification find that they are able to put the bargaining team in an immensely strong position. Your no vote will signal to the employer that the offer is not adequate, and as such, they will need to table an offer that addresses our three main priorities. In future negotiations, their forced offer becomes the floor for a settlement, as they cannot avoid bargaining at the table any longer.

    VOTE NO TO FORCED RATIFICATION!

    Please check for further updates as further details will be posted regularly. Union members will receive packages that give more specific information on the employer’s offer.

    http://www.cupe3903.tao.ca/

  225. Mell

    I am dissappointed at York for doing this.

  226. fed up

    Why the hell would it take a week or two to organize this vote? This strike has reached the height of absurdity. Don’t these union members ever watch the news or read a newspaper? Do they not realize the state of the economy? The fact that 100,000+ jobs have been lost in the country in the past two months? How can they, in good conscience, continue to cause the havoc that they have caused, and not vote to end this debacle? It’s absolutely disgraceful.

  227. Yorkie

    Again enough with the venting, we’ve heard it all….

    -_-***

  228. Yorkie

    Threats now? Why am I not surprised?

  229. Confused and Exasperated

    Woah, who said what to cause such a big stink all of a sudden?

  230. Anon

    I know that no one is sure of when the vote will take place, but was it said somewhere that Dr. Shoukri is to make an appearance today?….hopefully he can give us a date

  231. Buttercup

    The employer is going to force a ratification vote. My predicition is that the strike is going to end after this vote. It is how the big strike ended 8 years ago.
    I believe most Cupe members want to get back to work, there are a just a few keeping this strike going.

  232. b

    @undergrad
    so if one of the main priorities is job security, the York offer did say that they were offering more teaching positions at York. so what exactly do they want? This is so frustrating, is it true that CUPE only wants a 2yr contract so they can strike again in 2010? that doesnt make sense, why do they want to strike twice? i heard that a few universities are all planning on striking in 2010- are there any universities in ontario that won’t be striking then?

  233. fracas

    @ fed up,

    it MAY take up to two weeks, it may be less. The point is that all the administrative details are in the hands of the Minister of Labour. Neither York nor CUPE decide on the date nor organize the actual process. The Ministry does, after hearing from both parties on their preferences etc. My guess is taht both sides are telling the Minister to set it up as soon as possible. However, the labour laws governing ratification votes (forced or not) require that notice be sent to each member by mail, and requires 2 or 3 days delay from notice sent to actual vote (I’m not sure as to the exact number of hours of notice required). The Minister also has at his/her discretion to decide whether the vote should be on one day only, or span over several days. Finally, in this instance, since the union is made up of 3 units, and hence 3 separate agreements, the Minister has to decide whether to have all the units vote at the same time and place, or whether to organize separate votes for each unit. Since the request was made today, I’m guessing that the Ministry staff will take the weekend to make these decisions and plan steps to implement them, and will announce details by Monday, when things are set up.

    As someone who was at York during the last 3903 strike, when York also requested a forced rat vote, I do want to point out an important difference this time around. At that time, unit 2 (contract faculty) accepted the deal (by a small margin), while units 1 and 3 (grad students) rejected. Already people are talking about unit 2 being the ‘weak link’ in 3903 this time around too, and likely to accept the deal again. However, at that time, the strike issue was tuition indexation, an issue that only affected grad students, not contract faculty. This time around, there are three key issues left (based on the last union communication): one for unit 2 (job security provisions), one for units 1 and 3 (minimum guarantee), and one for all units (length of contract). Not sure which of these is more important than others, but certainly unit 2 this time around has an issue that impacts them directly to consider as they vote.

  234. Pally Wally

    Buttercup,

    The union rejected the forced ratification vote; the school caved to demands. (2000/2001).

    So, forced rat failed, just to clarify.

  235. Sourcer

    Sorry to say that a supervised vote didn’t end the strike in 2001. It was tried, and, predictably, it failed. AFTER the vote, the university realized it couldn’t stall anymore and tabled an offer we accepted. It’s not going to work this time either. Go ahead and “disagree” if you like, but that’s not going to make the union vote for it.

  236. flushafleshfarm

    The school year will not be canceled. Starting to do SOME work within the next few days is probably a good idea if for no other reason than to start thinking clearly again.

    My mind is slowly dribbling out of my ear, along my left shirtsleave, cresting the cliff of my elbow, and releasing itself in gravity-drawn dollops; ultimately forming a slimy, drool-like, viscous puddle of brain-goo on my office floor.

    mommy.

  237. Yorkie

    @fracas

    So do you think the unit 2 is now stronger or weaker than they were in the last strike?

  238. Sourcer

    fracas is correct. It is ‘very’ unlikely that York could win this time.

    What is likely that the current term would be cancelled since York does not want to lose the summer term.

  239. Yorkie

    @flushafleshfarm

    I totally agree. I’m ashamed to say I still have catch up work to do let alone work ahead…

    -_______-

  240. fracas

    @ buttercup,

    this has already been said, but is worth repeating for those who have not been paying close attention to all the messages on all the threads.

    the forced ratification vote in itself did not end the last strike. only one of the 3 units accepted the deal at that time, the other two remained on strike and the university remained shut down. what happened was that the failed ratification by units 1 and 3 led to pretty immediate and intense round of bargaining right following the vote, and a few days later (i can’t remember how many), a tentative agreement was reached between York and the remaining units. only after units 1 and 3 rejected the unrecommended deal, that York agreed to tuition indexation (the main issue the union was on strike over).

    So a forced rat vote is a big gamble for the employer – if it fails, the employer has to go back to the table with a much weakened hand. But it certainly does speed the process. So even if it fails, a negotiated agreement is probably shortly to follow.

  241. Yorkie

    @Sourcer

    I’ve been wondering about that too. Does York loose more money from cancelling the summer term or this current term? I keep hearign they’re more likely to cancel the summer term, instead of this one. Ugh…

  242. Sourcer

    there will be several interviews on CBC tonight.

  243. Sourcer

    @ Yorkie

    quite the opposite. Since CUPe has different terms for summer terms, York does not want to lose on that one.

  244. Yorkie

    So Cupe has a different contract in the summer term?

  245. yorkstrike2008

    @Fenn

    The porn, spam, viruses etc. are removed as I find them and as they are reported. I decided that the process of “Awaiting Moderation” that was previously in use on YorkStrike2008 was tedious as it delayed comments people were making. It was in this process that I weeded out all the porn, spam, viruses and vulgar language. I now rely on finding them and or people reporting them to me via email.

    This website has become as open as possible. I never block anyone from commenting, I only delete posts that I feel are inappropriate. If you email me, I will set you up as a contributor to this site as CUPE Doll now is and a few other members are as well. There is a Widget on the side at the bottom that shows all Contributors.

    I am only advising people to take everything said here with a grain of salt – even what I say and Cupe Doll.

    Furthermore, I am advising everyone that they must be careful of what they say here. The internet is not a lawless land. Please keep everything clean and productive.

    Regards Fenn

    YorkStrike2008

  246. what are the chances the forced ratification fails this time as opposed to the one held during 2001? I thought most of the cupe members didn’t want the strike to drag on anymore.

  247. Yorkie

    I’m taking a wild guess that the Unit 2s will be the weakestlink again and might cave. The other Units from what I’ve heard tend to be more dedicated…

  248. Pally Wally

    Vino
    dollars to doughnuts we’re watching 2000/1 in replay.
    I don’t think most cupe members wanted the strike to begin with. Obviously even the hardcore ‘zealots’ would prefer immediate capitulation to striking during winter nonetheless.

  249. fracas

    @Yorkie,

    I really don’t know. I left York a few years ago, so I’m not sure about the makeup of the unit 2 membership. I do know that quite a lot of the very long conract faculty got converted into full time positions and are now in YUFA. Many contract faculty now were graduate students then, many have started at York in the last few years, and as always, there is a sizable portion who are fairly marginal to the university ie. teaching one course. So the membership in unit 2 is quite varied, in terms of seniority, workload, age etc. I think those unit 2 members who see their future at York for better or worse, because of the trends in hirings and enrollements in the sector or perhaps for personal reasons (spouse has a job in Toronto so family decided not to relocate etc), are likely to support the union’s attempt to get a better deal for them and will vote against this deal. This wouldn’t be just the group of long-serving senior contract faculty who hope to get a f/t conversion; it also makes for less senior unit 2 people to want a strong conversion program – the more of their senior colleagues get coonverted, the more contract courses to be filled hence more overall unit 2 work.

    those unit 2 people who only teach a course here and there are more likely to vote for the deal. Which of these groups is likely to show up to vote is another unknown, although I would think that you’re likely to show up if you feel you have some personal stake in it (which may be entirely not work related, I realize).

    I’m sorry to not be able to answer your question direction. I really don’t know what the demographic of the unit 2 membership is right now – for what it’s worth, it appears younger to me now than 8 years ago, but then again i was a lot younger so maybe all the contract faculty just looked old to me:)

  250. Here

    What was the cost of the tuition indexation? Just a guess but I would infer that it was a lot smaller than the 10% gulf currently. In addition, economic conditions are a far sight worse now then then. So I don’t know if a negotiated settlement will soon follow.

    I REALLY hope that we don’t get a 2 year deal which means that those of you in first year, find a new school now so you don’t have to go through this again. The 2 year deal also makes a farce of 3903 saying that they are in this for the students. BTW, a 2 year deal also means that forced arbitration will happen that much sooner. the government will step in as soon as is possible. I hope CUPE doesn’t come out with the same outrageous demands as they did this time.

    There is only one reason why CUPE did not agree to arbitration. They knew their position would not have been accepted by an arbitrator.

  251. Yorkie

    @fracas

    Your insight is much appreciated. In your experience, do you think this is like a repeat of the 2000/01 strike?

  252. fracas

    @Here,

    I don’t remember the costing of tuition indexation, sorry, but I’m sure you can probably dig it up on either 3903 or York’s archives.

    @Yorkie,

    well, I’d say yes and no, but remember i am now watching it as an outsider while then i was deeply impacted by it, just like most of the posters here are. so my comparison is a bit flawed in that way.

    it looks the same to me, or much the same, in terms of the process of bargaining between the two sides. in 2000-01, if i recall correctly , a very long period went on without any talks at all. there was a lot of despair because it did seem like it’ll go on forever. then, bargaining started, went on for a short time, and york requested a forced rat vote. there was a lot of infighting in the union too, so that also seems the same (but also why i would be wary of thinking that infighting in itself means the union will lose support of members at crucial votes – strikes are stressful to those who are striking, so tempers flare, but often union members do end up backing the union when employers force a deal on them or when they think employer is not bargaining in good faith). the proposed remediation period seems the same (and as an aside, it really was not that bad, and certainly the year was not lost). at that time, i think the division between contract faculty and grad students was greater, but that’s really just my impression (it seemed like a very big internal issue then; it seems less so now, perhaps as a result of that strike).

    the differences are: the participation of members on the line (my recollection was that the lines were overall pretty strong throughout the 2000-01 strike); university is much more public now although the current president is much less so than marsden (i think marsden or some VPs did come to ‘town hall’ meetings organized in the underground during the strike), last time the university initially insisted that non-striking profs (YUFA or 3903 that opposed the strike) have to continue teaching to get paid, this time university cancelled all classes, and finally last time the Senate was very politicized (it seems that much of the policies around disruption were adopted from the decisions the Senate made during that strike).

    Wow, that took me down memory lane:) to me the process or sequence of things looks very similar. on the other hand, i think i was more sure then that the forced rat vote would fail than i am now, simply because members were so much more visibly invested in the strike (pickets etc). but perhaps that had to do with the fact that they had to have strong lines because some teaching WAS still going on – pickets were not only symbolic or representative of the strike as they are now, but really were meant to disrupt work that was still going on.

  253. John

    @ YorkStrike2008

    This is unrelated to the thread, but when I initially signed up, I clicked the “notify me of followup comments via email”–foolishly. Now I am being inundated with many emails. When I click the link in the email to manage my subscriptions, I get the error message “You cannot view this page without a valid key”…What do I do to stop the email madness?

    Thanks!

  254. aguyuno

    Just like to point out, in case no one else has, that this is actually month THREE of this strike. Month two ended with december.

    Felt I should point that out.

  255. Ayooo

    “At a meeting between the two parties today, CUPE 3903 did not bring forward any modifications to its existing positions, nor did it bring forward a counter-offer”

    CUPE always accuses York of not negotiating… Yet CUPE refuses to COMPROMISE on anything! The foundation of negotiation, is each side has to give in a little… from what we can all see. CUPE isn’t willing to negotiate AT ALL. This is why we refer to this strike as hostage taking. STOP being unreasonable and vote Yes.

  256. Bobert

    @John

    try clearing the cookies for your browser, and then re-entering your name and e-mail

  257. ram

    @ Ayooo
    I would not agree with you. Cupe did make many compromises and that is evident from the fact that they have come down so much already. Reducing it further would make them dumb and the strike meaningless. Many of us here, made fun of them for actually coming down too much initially.
    The true color of the university will show up ONLY IF the union rejects this offer in the forced ratification. Only then will we really know whether the university was really having a tough financial time.
    If it can bow down to the union and give them what they want, Then it will clearly show that the university IS GREEDY which is why it refused to negotiate with a good faith and disguised their unwillingness to pay more in the so called ” tough economic situation”..
    I really hope the offer gets rejected by the union in the forced ratification. If so, I bet you the university will give whatever the union asks for and put an immediate end to the strike..

    I am not supporting any party here. But a rejection will show the true color of both the parties.

  258. Commuter

    Can we petition the Senate to get them to release our examination schedule now? I mean, they know it’s 12 days, so why can’t they just tell us when each exam is so we have a rough idea? I know they are waiting to give us actual dates, but that’s kind of unfair having to wait at least a week or two from now to know when our exams are.

    I’d just like to know if my exam is on day 3 of the exam period or day 5 or day 12. That’s all I want. Why can’t they do that?

  259. Ayooo

    @ram … Are you out of your mind? So they are unwilling to compromise thier positions to save face? York gave in a little, and CUPE is being stubborn with thier demands… Cupe is clearly not willing to “negotiate”. Just because CUPE has ‘come down’ since the beginning of negotiations doesn’t mean that York’s offer of 10% is unreasonable in todays economy. All that means is that CUPE’s heads were in the clouds to begin with!! The point is, is that CUPE is being UNREASONABLE with thier demands. and to Vote “No” to 10% increase, when people are losing thier jobs speaks to thier true intentions.. They are not looking for a “fair deal” as they claim. They are looking for a one-sided deal. 10% is fair and we all know it.

  260. Plastic Surgery that shows the perfect breasts.
    Is there really such a thing as perfection? Porn, is it a business or just an institution?
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