YorkU offers settlement to end strike

Negotiations update: York presents comprehensive settlement offers to CUPE 3903 Units 1, 2 and 3

 TORONTO, January 7, 2009 — After 5 days of making some progress in negotiations, the University today presented to the Union enhanced offers for settlement totaling 10.7% over three years.

The University has asked the Union to present these comprehensive offers for settlement to its membership for a ratification vote at the earliest opportunity.

These enhanced offers include a 9.25% increase in wages plus significant benefit and other improvements over the term of the new three-year collective agreements.

The University’s comprehensive offers for settlement address the key priority areas identified by CUPE 3903, namely:

         Enhanced job security for contract faculty through 22 new full-time faculty positions

         Further increases in Funds to reflect recent membership growth

         Indexation of Funds to address any future membership growth

         Tuition protection for the full term of the new collective agreements

         Increase in minimum guaranteed funding for graduate teaching assistants

 

The University firmly believes that these comprehensive offers for settlement of 10.7% over three years are fair, responsible and sustainable – particularly in this worsening economic climate.

As time is of the essence for our 50,000 students, the University has asked CUPE 3903 to present these offers for settlement to the membership for ratification as soon as possible.

http://www.yorku.ca/mediar/archive/Release.asp?Release=1578

By Cupe Doll

YorkStrike2008 Contributor

You’ve probably heard by now.  York’s made 3903 a final offer.  And it’s a damn good one.  In fact, it’s better than York offered any other locals.  Almost as if York capitulated just a little.  Just enough to reward 3903 for ruining this academic year.  For totally ruining this year when it comes to anything remotely academic.

Fair enough.  Sometimes, to save the babies, you’ve got to drink bathwater.  Trouble is, though, that this here 3903 local isn’t merely childish.  It’s totally loco.  Listening to our own internal 3903 chatter, it’s like hearing voices.  Disturbed voices.  Voices insinuating how “concessionary” York’s final offer is.  How we didn’t go striking out so long just to concede anything to York.

No surprise.  Everyone should understand already.  Far as our 3903 ideologues are concerned, this strike isn’t about what York can bring to the table.  It’s about kneecapping York under the table.  Regardless whatever consequence for York students, faculty, staff and our own membership.  And however our ideologues deny what they’re after — kneecapping York — it’s no secret.  Not only is it not secret — it’s earnestly and proudly advertised.  For one of many instances, in the very first paragraph of his article — The Neoliberal University: Looking at the York Strike — Eric Newstadt wrote that “.. the tenor of the action was and remains pitched firmly at rolling back the “neoliberal university”…”

Not a secret.  Should come as no surprise by now.  Our 3903 ideologues truly honestly believe they’re striking out for student’s own good.  That because we in 3903 don’t want students having to pay their education — that totally justifies us ruining the education students already paid for.  And look: our 3903 ideologues are not knowingly evil.  All we are is totally ideological.  In our own minds, we are proud how we fight for students.  How we strike out against the “neo-liberal” university.  In our own minds we are the good guys.  We keep waiting students to show us the love.  All this false hatred?  Nothing but bad PR.

What does all this mean — like, in practical terms?  Should be fairly obvious.  If at least five hundred 3903 members show up at tomorrow’s GMM, only then will there be much chance York’s final offer getting positively ratified.  Because only then will there be sufficient regular membership to outvote our ideological bloc.  Otherwise, if fewer than five hundred show tomorrow — the chances slim to none.  In which case it becomes a matter for either forced ratification — or legislation.

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159 Comments

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159 responses to “YorkU offers settlement to end strike

  1. yorkstrike2008

    Yay!

    CUPE better accept this. If they don’t I’m sure York will throw down the forced ratification card.

  2. HBK

    Either way, it seems that we’ll be going back soon. Now, will we be back Monday, or will there be a bigger gap?

  3. Andrew

    Oh god, Eric Newstadt. That is the guy who was hated by his students for going over board on the neo-liberalism stuff.

    I said this before, I really hope the regular members show up to the vote. Cupe Doll I really hope you are there as well. If they don’t, they are just as bad as the radicals in all this.

    You said 2/3’s want this over with, which would win them a vote if it happened. So if it doesn’t happen for lack of numbers, that is when it is time for BTWL.

  4. anon

    ive said it all along and ill say it again…its all about the 11th week mark…lets see what happens…if im not mistaken the chief negotiators do not have to present the offer if they feel the offer “isnt good enough” correct? lets wait and see

  5. yorkie

    If the union accepts the university’s latest offer tomorrow, what day do u think we’ll we’ll get back?

    Is jan 12 still possible?

  6. D

    The question is, why wouldn’t every CUPE member show up for the vote? I mean this is why they are on strike for.

  7. tester

    So does this mean that unit 2’s can accept this offer and return to class, and unit 1 and 3’s can reject the offer and stay on strike?

    or is it all of CUPE3903 regardless of their specific unit?

  8. proprea

    I’m surprised anyone actually thinks 3903 is going to accept this offer. In a normal, ideal world they would take it, but keep in mind that they’re off in la-la land and want even more. The union head is going to stand in front of all the members and preach about how this is unfair, it’s over 3 years instead of 2, they’re not going to take this anymore, neo-liberal this, we shall overcome that, bla bla bla, and they’re not going to take it. It’s kind of scary that these ridiculous mob-mentality selfish morons are people that are teaching us.

  9. Yorkie

    Some people in other posts were saying this deal is basically the same at the last one they made. Is this true? And that this deal is basically a confectionary deal with more to come. So is it possible that this is just the begining?

  10. Rolling my eyes

    The Cupe members on the anti-strike facebook group are already stating they won’t accept the offer.

    Cupe doll–What about the fact this is a three year offer and the lack of job security for contract staff?
    Will this not work against it.

  11. Jason

    Apparently they still need to discuss the deal tomorrow at the gmm meeting, cupe is going to present a counteroffer later this week. So we should see what happens

  12. Jason

    Here is the linkhttp://torontoist.com/2009/01/deal_or_no_deal.php

  13. Yorkie

    Cupe Doll, I’m not asking what you’re going to vote for, just inquiring to what your thoughts are on the possible outcome of this. When you’ve talked to other Cupe members have they been all for rejecting the deal or what?

  14. RR

    I disagree- I think this offer is the most dissipointing end to 5 days of negotiations. It is pratically the same offer back in November. I hope this will not be put to a vote or this entire thing will have been for nothing. This was in York’s back pocket the entire time to give this over the night before the GMM. I used to be against the TA’s in this endevour, but now I hate my university admin for these games. Fuck York admin for playing around with our lives. I hope 3903 throws this back in their faces and forces a REAL settlement. Not another PR spin fest. I am so sick of the bullshit to feed the media, I guess this is what paying top notch lawers and union busters buys you- but Im sorry, York has now completly shown their true side; I hope they rot for it.

  15. Sshmr

    We don’t even know if there will be a vote at the GMM. We don’t even know the full details of the offer. The full text of the proposed CBA isn’t available.

    This is the proposed agenda of the GMM:

    1. Introduction
    a) Welcome Back (5)
    b) Rationale (5)
    c) Read Equality Statement (5)
    2. Approval of the Agenda (10)
    3. Approval of Previous Minutes (10)
    4. Bargaining Reportback
    a) Presentations (30)
    b) Discussions (30)

    Break (10)

    5. Executive Reportback
    a) Presentations (10)
    b) Discussions (10)
    6. Bargaining/Strike Strategy
    a) Presentations (if necessary) (10)
    b) Discussions (10)
    7. Plenary/Motions
    a) Plenary (15)
    b) Motions (15)

    It will take roughly 2.5 hours to reach motions, and the moderates who want to see the new York U proposal go through don’t even know the proper procedure for a motion, and yes, this local is so devoid of common sense that people have had abuse heaped upon them for not doing things within proper procedure (and by procedure, I mean terminology).

    It’s very difficult, especially if you have family, to show up for a GMM that spans from 5-8 PM, and to wait 2.5 hours for a motion that may or may not even occur, to discuss a topic that’s not even on the agenda.

    That’s why no one shows up at these GMMs. The only ones who can convienently attend are the ideologues who have nothing better to do, or care so little about the rest of the world that they would shun them to play Politburo.

  16. AL

    People should organize their lives in order to bring joy and happiness to others. God will be the judge of those who bring direct pain to others. Money is the root of ALL evil. Think of Nazi Germany in 1930’s and 40’s. Everything that happened there was based on someone ideologies and justifications. They were also in la la land, just like 3903. Sometimes we need to look at ourselves from the perspective of our victims and truly see us how others see us and what kind of “benefit” we bring them.

    CUPE 3903, would you enjoy being in our shoes? In shoes of undergraduate students who are paying for school themselves and not through school’s donations and salaries?

    In the country that I come from, if one wants to make more money, one works harder in order to impress the employer; or by obtaining a second/new job. Unions do not exist there!

  17. Why is it that all of the sudden people are posting sites linking to porn. It hasn’t happened before. I think people are losing their minds over the strike and are starting to go crazy! lol.

  18. Yorkie

    @ vino

    Nope, just trolls.

  19. tester

    So does this mean that unit 2’s can accept this offer and return to class, and unit 1 and 3’s can reject the offer and stay on strike?

    or is it all of CUPE3903 regardless of their specific unit?

  20. Its probably one person naming himself/herself differently every time.

  21. RR

    Also, yorkstrike 2008, I am so surprised that you have handed over the reins of this amazing site to any person who wants to start a thread. I understand the motives and belive that a fair and wide ranging discussion are necessary and valued- but setting the tone of a discussion is a very important step. You did a great job of this before by staying neutral and to thefacts, which is how I believe, this site became the best place to find out info and discuss. But now, with Cupe Doll or anyone else, throwing out the major propaganda and spin (Cupe Doll, I know you have been informative before and I thank you for that, but you are now turing into what I hated about the facebook site- bias & heated, which now renders you uninformative) the site has become more about spin and much less about informed debate. Can we please try to keep these discussion heads neutral to get a proper debate going. I belive that if the header is bias then people feel they have to react defensevly to whichever side they land on- this does not boad well for information sharing.

  22. yushky

    no way they accept this…i would be very suprised if they did.

  23. Yorkie

    @ Cupe 3930

    Isn’t that red message only about cupe members submitting their holiday hours? They’re voting on the 14th?

  24. yushky

    ok..now back to strike talk please lol

  25. anon

    there is no info stating that there will be a vote held tomorrow…from what i understand cupe still has to review the offer talk about it and they have the power to decide whther or not to present it too its members…in addition, i was tlaking to 5 T.A.S and they were saying it is highly unlikely this offer will be ratified…just figured id mention that

  26. Sshmr

    It’s nice to see that people in this day and age still don’t have pop up blockers.

  27. Yorkie

    @ anon

    It was just the

    “Proof of ID is required to register and vote.”

    -part that made me think they’d be voting on it tomorrow.

  28. Ok, the post seems to have been truncated. Here’s what the last couple paragraphs were:

    What can you do? Email each T.A. and contract faculty you know. Urge them to come out tomorrow. That simple. Personally remind every 3903 you know to come out as the “valued educators” we’re supposed to be.

    And if you’re a regular 3903 member reading this? Don’t be intimidated. Let’s enough of us come out to be intimidating. So that when we have reason to clap at our own GMM, the ideologues will object how intimidating we are. It’s just a numbers’ game — and now’s the time to get counted. Let’s do it.

    And remember: only if enough of regular membership shows up — only then can we ensure voting on York’s offer will even take place.

  29. Sshmr

    It is a 9.25% flat wage increase, but it’s a 10.7% pay increase when all the additional funds and supplements get factored in.

  30. RR

    CP24, Toronto Star, National Post and the Globe & Mail covering this strike so far have proven to be disgraces to journalism

  31. RR

    Cupe Doll- you are the only one saying right now that there is going to be a vote tomorrow- where are you getting this info from?

  32. Jason

    They dont even have to sumbit the deal yet tomorrow, they are apparently discussing it.
    I tried contacting my ta, they said they cannot speak to me because of the strike.

  33. Sshmr

    He’s not saying that there’ll be a vote.

    “And remember: only if enough of regular membership shows up — only then can we ensure voting on York’s offer will even take place.”

    If enough people show up, someone can motion to vote on the new offer. At the moment, I’m betting that the bargaining team won’t even release the full details of the offer to the general membership.

  34. Jason

    they said its premature, there is alot to discuss

  35. RR

    @Sshmr – thanks for clearing that up

  36. Muneeb

    Approximately when should we expect classes to begin cuz i have have work and other issues to reschedule.

  37. Muneeb

    how does the pass fail option affect our gpas…??

  38. @RR: “Cupe Doll- you are the only one saying right now that there is going to be a vote tomorrow- where are you getting this info from?”

    No, RR. Nobody says there will be a vote tomorrow.

    Only if enough regular membership shows tomorrow can we make sure to have the vote. See — we might have to pass a motion in order for the vote to happen in the first place. If enough regular membership doesn’t show tomorrow, chances are we 3903’s might not even bother voting.

  39. anon

    @muneeb: we cant expect anything it can happen at any given time

  40. one positive thing

    One positive out of all of this is that everyone is on the up and up on their research skills ….glad to see everyone questioning ppl’s information and sources! lol

    @ RR I agree ….can’t believe the kind of false information the media has put out!

  41. Jason

    cupe is going to counter proposal, they are discussing the vote apparently tomorrow.

  42. Jason

    cupe has gone this far, why would they vote now, they have been wanting job security, and a two year contract. They have more power at this point then the administration, because they have been on strike for so long. Why would they give up now?? to look like fools

  43. dsd

    Wow this is basically the same offer..
    And because it’s 3 years Union will go nuts.
    And can someone ip ban that child with porn links?

  44. chem is hard

    if the TA’s have spent two months on strike, completely screwing me and 49,999 others just so that they could gain benefits equivalent to 1.45% I for one will be furious. I think that these people need to leave fantasy land behind and realize that they ARE STUDENTS. They are NOT PROFESSORS as should not be treated as such. Being a TA is akin to doing residency as a Doctor, you get treated poorly and receive bad pay (…oh wait TA’s don’t receive bad hourly pay…) however you learn and afterwards move on to greater things. When they threatened to strike we should have laughed and sent them on their high horsed way.

  45. Jason

    Cupe is disappointed that they are using the media to propose their latest offer, its a strategy to get cupe members to just settle once and for all, a way out of the strike… and away from the clutches of the Union. Very good move York.

  46. anon

    smart move by York however it seems as if york is capitulating a little which means weakness and so cupe now according to myself has the upper hand

  47. Question

    Assuming that the Union puts York’s offer to a vote tomorrow, and it still gets rejected, can York “force” a ratification? Would this even make sense, given that the offer was rejected on the first vote?

  48. Yorkie

    Hmph. The university has always used th media to their advantage, a pretty low blow.

  49. Yorkie

    What does “forced ratification” actually mean anyways? Does it mean that they have to force ALL the members to vote then?

  50. fracas

    my understanding of the bargaining process is that even if members do get to vote on this latest offer (not final offer, as is referred to in the media), that vote would not be an official ratifying vote. A ratification vote requires proper notice by law, informing members that this is the final offer and they have an opportunity to accept it or not. This has not happened – neither side is calling this ‘final offer’ or ‘tentative agreement’, and no notice to members have gone out about a ratification vote. so cupe doll, i do think you need to scale down your rhetoric and increase on actual information which students here are repeatedly calling out to you to provide. which frankly, may be misdirected because for all your ‘insider knowledge’ tone, you seem to know very little about the actual bargaining process.

    so – 1) there will definitely be no ratification vote tomorrow, although no doubt members will give some sense of their feeling about this offer to the bargaining team through a vote on a variety of possible motions,

    2) york certainly can walk away from the table and say ask ministry of labour for a forced rat vote on this deal (although, as Question suggests, it may not make much sense of members at the GMM appear to reject it),

    3) no side has indicated that talks have broken down so talks very well may continue after Thursday,

    btw, till now i have only lurked on this site not meaning to write in since i’m neither a york student nor employee. but frankly, cupedoll’s messages have become just too alarmist and misleading to ignore, especially in light of the pointed and unanswered questions about process and its practical short term implications.

  51. Mike Oxbig

    can someone explain to me this whole security issue…

    like if it’s a huge thing for the union…then for the simple fact that it isn’t a 2 year deal means that the union won’t accept this…

    for some reason i think the government is going to step into this and force people back to work in 2 weeks…

    because it’s obviously the difference between 2-3 years…

    highly doubt this deal will be accepted…

    2 or 3 years has been the biggest sticking point since the beginning of this entire thing…

  52. j

    If they don’t vote tomorrow, can the University then go for the ‘forced ratification’ option – I don’t know how all that works.. does it mean that the University bypasses the GMM and sends the vote straight to the CUPE members??

  53. fracas

    ‘forced ratification’ is a ratification of a deal that the union is not recommending, at the request of the employer. it is supervised by the ministry of labour, i believe. not ALL members have to vote – the deal gets accepted if 50+1 votes are ‘yes’ out of the total that voted. employers are allowed to request a forced rat vote once only.

  54. RR

    @fracas
    I am in complete agreement, thank you for articulating these issues further with regards to dangerous PR spin disguised as information. As a fourth year york student in need of cool headed facts, I thank you for posting.

  55. fracas

    @ j,

    sorry, this will be my last post, i promise.

    if what happens at the gmm communicates to york that members see this deal as unsatisfactory (let’s say members approve a motion to give their bt support to go back to the bargaining table to enhance this offer), then york needs to decide whether to go back to bargaining or whether to request a forced rat vote. if they do the latter, then they need to do it through the ministry of labour. it’s not an automatic process – it can take a week (at least a few days) to finalize space and time when the vote would be made, to develop a protocol and appoint personnel for overseeing the vote (since unions see forced votes as hostile, there is great attention paid to the legalities of the proceedings), to mail out the notice to all eligible to vote members, and mail out the actual language of the offer to those members. all of which takes time to administer.

    if a deal is reached at the table, then the ministry doesn’t have to be involved and the process is much faster. the union announced a meeting where the text of the deal will be distributed and discussed and mails out notice of ratification vote details. not to mention, if a deal is reached at a table, the union will be recommending it, making it more likely that members will in turn accept it.

  56. Mike Oxbig

    so pretty much if the deal is favourable tomorrow…then we will most likely have school on monday…

    but if there is a forced ratification…can modifications still be made?

  57. Question

    Thanks fracas! You should definitely continue posting, as I’m sure many people are grateful for your insights 🙂

  58. fracas

    @ mike oxbig,

    ok, i lied – THIS is the last one:)

    if york requests ministry of labour to administer a forced ratification vote, then york would have effectively walked away from bargaining. the last offer becomes final offer, which gets presented to members to vote on, at whichever time the ministry decides (the ministry decides on how notice will be provided, when the vote will take place, over how many days etc). if the deal gets accepted through a majority vote, then it becomes a new collective agreement, and the strike is over. if the deal gets rejected, then york and 3903 can continue to bargain (and would probably get to it immediately since a lot of time would have been lost as a result of the forced rat process).

    one last important point to remember – there are 3 bargaining units (unit 1 TAs, unit 2 contract faculty, and unit 3 GAs), and each votes on each own agreement. so it’s possible that 1 or more of the units may accept the deal, while the remaining will not. technically, it would mean that for those units that accepted it the strike is over adn should go back to work, while the remaining unit continues to strike while the two sides work on its contract. however, given that york cancelled all teaching ‘to avoid confusion’, it probably would mean that the strike continues as is untill all units ratify.

    have you guess yet that i was an undergrad at york and went through the 2000-01 strike?:) learned a lot about labour relations etc at the time. also explains my interest in this round, even though i’m no longer there.

  59. Mike Oxbig

    i see…so why would they want to leave the bargaining table?

    they’re saying this is the furthest they will go?

    whats the issue for the union wanting 2 years anyways…

    they’re getting close to their demands over 3 years right?

    but whats does 2 years have that 3 years does not?

  60. juliette

    @ Mike,

    I believe all the univeristies in the province want to strike together in 2010 for collective bargaining, that why years is different than 3

  61. Mike Oxbig

    and why the heck do they want to do that

  62. juliette

    because they want to screw us all….I suppose so that the universties will have to give in to all their demands because the will pressured by hundreds of thousands of students…I’m interested to see what will happen in February if UFT strikes.

  63. Mike Oxbig

    sounds like a smart plan

    but it’s easier for the government to force the issue now rather than a bunch of school later…

  64. Kelso

    They all better show up tomorrow! What was the point of going on strike if they don’t want their voices heard… every member should be there.

  65. AnObserver

    UofT has already stated that in the event of a walkout, all academic activities would continue. Our tests and assignments may take longer to mark, but UofT won’t cave.

    Another thing about UofT, and this is according to several TAs… UofT Teaching Assistants have historically had very bad solidarity. In fact, though the preliminary vote to strike has passed, it’s not likely to pass any further. In fact, the TAs I’d spoken with were shocked the preliminary vote had passed. Supposedly only a small part of the union voted however.

    Finally, I believe (and please correct me if I’m wrong), UofT’s union is structured somewhat differently and I believe if they do strike, only TAs would be striking. Contract faculty may be on a different contract entirely (but I’m not 100% about that, simply what I’d heard in passing).

  66. AnObserver

    Furthermore, even if they do strike, UofT is a commuter school that runs largely on the subway system. Commuting by car is largely unheard of. Furthermore, they cannot block any roads given that they are not school properly.

    The buildings are all dispersed and separate along two large city blocks… picketing simply wouldn’t be effective (even if they managed to block the main buildings).

    While the strike MAY happy at UofT, don’t expect nearly this amount of drama. Sorry. 😦

  67. Davey

    @Cupe3903
    If you are a T.A. York is really in trouble. Your spelling and grammar are atrocious!

  68. Davey

    Tomarrow?(2 times for Christ’s sake!) LOL

  69. Mike Oxbig

    if this goes to forced ratification or anything through the government…we probably won’t be in school until the 19th right?

  70. yorkiee

    Honestly, either get this strike over with or give us back our money. Like I’m actually to a point I don’t even want to go back to York. I’m also sick of every other school making fun of York as a school just because the CUPE 3903 decided to strike. Personally I think if they don’t accept the what York U has offered, tomorrow they should just give up because it’s a fair offer just take it! U understand where the CUPE 3903 is coming from and I understand why they are on strike but this is affecting to many people.
    On a side note, I also heard we would only get 40% of our money back if the year is cancelled? Is this true because theres NO way I’m only getting 40% of my money back! I have all full year courses therefore I paid the full year. Yet I only was in class 25% of the time i should have been. I pay for my own education with my hard earned money therefore I refuse to get ripped off. I am definately regretting picking York University.

  71. worried student

    i have a friend who knows someone with credible information and it looks like school will be starting on monday

    i have done absolutely no work during this strike and i am going to be royally screwed

    i hope everyone else did something, wouldn’t want to be in my shoes

    see you all on monday

  72. worried student

    i’m betting on the 19th return

  73. yorkiee

    sean , clearly a fake site .. nimp and org?
    c’mon, get out of here really.

  74. Soraya

    @ worried student

    As Russell Peters would say, take it and go!

    Don’t come here with stupid ass comments like that.

  75. yorkiee

    LMAO i love russell .
    sorry
    anyhu.. end this stupid strike and accept the offer tommorrow or give me ALL my money back !

  76. Soraya

    I just finished watching Dane Cook’s Vicious Cicle. It’s better than the show he did here in Toronto last year.

    As for accepting the offer tomorrow… who knows, they might not even vote.

  77. j

    @ AnObserver

    Your right – the 3902 union (UofT’s) doesn’t consist of contract faculty and classes will not be cancelled if they strike.

    Although I heard differently than you – in that UofT was almost certainly going to strike in February.

  78. Russell Peters

    don’t ever quote me like that again…

    …now take that…and go…

  79. Soraya

    Funny, very funny. Almost mind-BLASTING!

  80. YS

    @Cupe 3903

    WTF IS “TOMARROW”?

  81. gee

    do we have a timeline for tomorrow?

    When the meeting is? When it should finish?
    When we should expect an update?

  82. yorkiee

    ye dane cooks good too
    who is this sean dude like really get a life :S
    lmaoo ;
    ” what is it ” .. nothing
    ‘whats inside of it … nothing
    ‘whats is value ‘ .. nothing
    *tear* its beautiful
    we shall call it jero
    oh godd he gets me everytimeeeeee

  83. Peter North

    i love the union

    the kind of union when i get with a woman and fuck her brains out

    and since i love unions

    i can’t wait until york bows down

    so i can say

    “alrigggghhhhhtttt, suck my dick” i am quoting myself

  84. Let’s not get distracted by porn sites. And irrelevant technicalities. Like forced ratification particulars. Since the point remains: if enough regular membership shows up tomorrow’s GMM then we can end the strike then and there. By moving to vote on York’s offer, by passing the motion and, finally, by positively ratifying it. York’s offer.

    If we don’t ratify York’s offer tomorrow — will York make another? Will we make a counter-offer? Will York force ratification on 3903? Will the Liberals bind everyone to arbitration?

    Who cares? Why get distracted? We’ve got an opportunity to end this strike by positively ratifying York’s offer. Tomorrow. Nothing more required than enough general membership coming out.

    Oh — and, fracas? When I say let’s vote to ratify York’s offer? I don’t mean to mislead anyone that there’s any ratification vote on tomorrow’s agenda. So, thanks for your concern with my diction, fracas 🙂 In the past you’ve been a real “Clara Fire”. But your current attempt to stir up a purely syntactic “fracas” are too transparent.

  85. LR

    Soraya … good one LOL (. . . cause anything can blow your mind. . . )

    You know .. they should just “take it and go, take it and go LOL”

  86. Soraya

    I try 🙂

  87. Dray the CUPE member

    @CUPE Doll writes “If at least five hundred 3903 members show up at tomorrow’s GMM, only then will there be much chance York’s final offer getting positively ratified.”:

    You seem to suggest that tomorrow’s GMM will have a ratification vote. Not true. At best, members can pass a motion to hold a ratification vote at a later date. (That would be a reasonable course of action for you to urge.)

    Plus, the mediator has scheduled additional negotiations for Friday, and the Administration accepted. So their proposal is still evolving.

    (I’m on exactly the same listservs as you are. Didn’t you see this info?)

  88. Commuter

    Commuter wrote
    January 7, 2009 at 8:13 pm

    Tyler Shipley (the CUPE guy) was on the news (I can’t remember if I saw him on City or Global as I was watching both) tonight at 11.

    He said the union will look over the offer tomorrow, but will go back to the mediator on Friday with some more requests/changes/improvements. So with him already coming out and saying that… no… I don’t think this deal will be accepted.

    So unless a forced ratification or back-to-work legislation appears out of nowhere, this doesn’t seem likely to end on Monday.

    Trying to Be Realistic wrote
    January 7, 2009 at 8:20 pm

    I just wanted to say that I don’t think e-mailing your TA’s is going to help any. I watched the 11 o’clock news and they were talking to CUPE and they said that were going to send York counter offers. So I don’t think it’s likely their will be a ratification vote tomorrow at the general members meeting, but I could be wrong.

    Dray the CUPE Member wrote
    January 7, 2009 at 8:26 pm

    Not only is there to be no ratification vote tomorrow, but the mediator has already scheduled a negotiation meeting for Friday. The Admin already agreed to be present. So, even the Admin expects to modify its offer.

  89. CanCan

    @ Soraya

    Hahahahahah oh how much I love Russell Peters.
    TAKE IT, AND GO!

    I’m kind of going to be pissed if the union does “take it and go” tomorrow though. Although I WOULD like to be back at school asap, the latest offer doesn’t even come close to their initial demands.

    It just looks like the union just went on strike for 2 months for ONLY about 1.5% more increase from the very beginning offer? That’s so pointless… This could have been resolved so much sooner if they only wanted a 1.5% increase.

    Plus, I’d be happy if they took the over three years, since that means no strike in the near future… but then again, if the union “gives in” now… I’m going to be pissed.

    I can’t really express myself clearly right now due to medication for wisdom teeth… lmao I’m sorry. I hope some of that made sense.

  90. @Cupe 3903: “.. hundreds of my fellow cupe members are not going to the meeting tomarrow since the offer does not attract them.”

    Oh, come on. Even if you’re right, you’re wrong. Let’s enough of us get out and have us a free and representative vote for once.

    Come on, Cupe 3903. Come on out. Because if we do have us more of a representative free vote and it turns out you’re right? If we reject York’s offer at a free and representative vote? Then we’ll be stronger for it, won’t we? We’ll be united. And it will totally shut up everyone claiming our loco local’s hijacked by a bunch of whackos. It’ll shut me up good. And I can finally start writing those 3903 propaganda leaflets for 3903.

    Come on out tomorrow, Cupe 3903. If you’re right then I’ll write all the 3903 propaganda I was asked to in the first place. I’ll finally get strike paid. And I’ll give you half my strike pay just for showing up.

  91. AnObserver

    @j

    You could absolutely be correct in what you’d heard. This was only the feeling I’d gotten from speaking with TAs at the end of December. Unfortunately, I haven’t had the chance to speak with any of them since.

    Whether or not they go on strike, I’d expect the impact to be minimal, due to the reasons I’d posted above. To add more to those, TAs and tutorials at UofT aren’t as prevalent as they are at York, and tutorials are rarely if ever marked for attendance/participation. Personally, I haven’t had a single tutorial since second year.

    It seems that York’s strike will really be the precedent. The amount of media coverage and possible government intervention will either bode well for locals or universities all over Ontario.

    Keeping York and UofT out of 2010 striking position will definitely be a deciding factor in that action, with a collective 130,000 undergrads.

  92. Yorkie

    I think this post from a student on the facebook strike website sums up me feelings pretty well:

    “If cupe DOES except this offer than we should be more pissed off than anything else. this offer is basically the same that was put up in november. excepting now would only mean that all of this was a waste of time for something that could have ended before. York is pulling a bitch move and is wasting everyones time by not negotiating fairly.”

  93. Soraya

    Everyone comes to me for updates, I send people this link so they can read and they still ask me to summarize. Lazy! I think there is a huge divide in the student population: 1/2 want the year scrapped and the other 1/2 want it to start asap. As for me, I have so much stuff to figure out. I’m supposed to take a compressed sociology course in the 2nd semester and I’m considering dropping it because of all this bs. 33 credits down to 27 – arrgggh which might mean a 5th year. a la merde!

  94. Soraya

    “Yorkie
    January 7, 2009 at 8:39 pm
    I think this post from a student on the facebook strike website sums up me feelings pretty well:

    “If cupe DOES except this offer than we should be more pissed off than anything else. this offer is basically the same that was put up in november. excepting now would only mean that all of this was a waste of time for something that could have ended before. York is pulling a bitch move and is wasting everyones time by not negotiating fairly.””

    Sometimes it hold true, “if you can hold a fork, you can go yo York” it’s accept not except lol

  95. CanCan

    @ Yorkie

    That is exactly what I meant to say lol.

  96. Yorkie

    @Soraya

    FYI those aren’t my words, remember? I didn’t bother correcting it since I quoted it off of someone else. -__-*

  97. Yorkie

    @CanCan

    Yeah, I figured, so I thought I’d put it in a much more blunt way. ^_~

  98. yorkette

    GMM Meeting Thursday Jan 8th
    Published on 07 Jan 2009

    The next GMM will be on Thursday, Jan 8, from 5-8 pm.

    Light supper will be provided at 6:30. Proof of ID is required to register and vote.

    so apparently there is a vote tmw?

  99. Yorkie

    @Soraya

    But I do agree, horrid grammar. Lol

  100. Mike Oxbig

    yorkette where did you get that from?

    following this whole strike thing gets more and more pointless as time goes on because there are so many different stories and angles that pop up out of nowhere at any time

  101. Yorkie

    @yorkette

    It is a step towards a vote. Although, wouldn’t be surprised if it ended up resulting in a counter offer.

  102. CanCan

    @Mike Oxbig

    Well it says there’s a meeting on Cupe’s website but not saying if they’re voting or not…?

  103. Jason

    the deal would have to be ratified on saturday, for classes to resume monday

  104. j

    @ AnObserver

    haha – it’s all hear say, I guess. I got the impression there would be a strike from the TAs I spoke to.

    I just transferred from UofT (slightly regretting it NOW, haha) but I was in Life Sciences and all of my labs were lead by TAs. That’s the one area I don’t understand could still run while they were on strike.

    Oh well, we’ll see come February – but it would seem I have a whole whack of problems to deal with at York, first. hah.

  105. Yorkie

    But yeah, they wouldn’t be voting on it tomorrow.

  106. Soraya

    lol, I know it wasn’t your post. I was just quoting what you posted. No worries.

  107. @Dray the CUPE member: “You seem to suggest that tomorrow’s GMM will have a ratification vote.”

    Lol. Sure. Unless you actually read my post. And my 8:21 comment — 4 above yours. Why not read what you respond to?

    “At best, members can pass a motion to hold a ratification vote at a later date.”

    Yes. Thank you. You’ve managed to agree with me. Now then — there’s only one point of contention. When you say “at a later date”? Are you suggesting the membership can’t pass a motion to ratify “later” tomorrow? Because, if enough general membership shows tomorrow — good luck to you. Good luck if that’s what you’re suggesting.

  108. yorkette

    @ Mike Oxbig
    I pasted that directly from the CUPE strike website

    @ Yorkie

    I’ve gotta agree with you..there’s no telling what will be the outcome of tmw’s meeting
    Let’s just hope they keep a vote in perspective.

  109. Yorkie

    Although I know we already are pissed off at Cupe for wasting our time, now it’s reached a point where we should be hoping that they get what they’ve been fighting for ALL this time. In a sense so it all won’t be in vain. Please don’t chew me out for looking like I support Cupe. ~_~

  110. CanCan

    @ Yorkie

    Like I said before… I am 100% behind you on this one. I just don’t want the two months that were spent on this strike to just go to waste.

  111. AnObserver

    @j

    Don’t blame you for leaving… that’s for sure. Yorkies, take it from someone who knows, all the rumors of the hell that is UofT are true: Shitty commute, terrible competition, punishing policies, curved grading, maximum grade distributions forced on professors, zero school spirit… sigh…

    I’m in Commerce, so I don’t get many TAs, but I’d imagine labs would be quite impossible without anyone to run them. I suppose professors could be bothered to do it here and there…

  112. Yorkie

    @CanCan

    Thanks. I just can’t stress it enough.

    I wish the meeting was ealier tomorrow, so maybe we’d know earlier…maybe?

  113. Commuter

    I agree with both of you.

    I’m a first year. If they get NOTHING out of this strike, it means we wasted 2 months of our year for no good reason.

    To make matters worse, it means it will be all the more likely that they will strike in our graduating year, to catch up with any 2010 gains (having been denied an opportunity to participate).

    For the sake of my sanity, and a fear of another mess in my 4th year, I hope they get what they want now.

    Strike to win, then don’t strike again.

  114. CanCan

    @ Yorkie

    Gah I wish it was earlier too… considering I have to make travel arrangements to come back IF anything happens… that’ll be a bitter, bitter trip.

    @ Commuter

    I hope union gets what they want as well so they are convinced to do the three year contract. A girl can dream… lol

  115. yorkette

    @Commuter

    I completely agree with you on that. I’m in my 1st year too and no way do I want another repeat in my graduating year. I don’t think I’m really a CUPE supporter…but I do hope they get something credible in the end. Otherwise, all this will have been pointless and temporary.

    I know going back to a compressed semester will be total bs and we’ll have to work 3 times harder than before, but hey…I’d rather get through that this year and not have to live it again.

  116. Yorkie

    @CanCan

    Yup, a dream… lol

    I’ve been wondering about that 2 vs 3 year deal too. If it really isn’t that much of a difference (right?), why doesn’t York just change to the 2 year deal? York’s being even more childish than I give them credit for…

  117. scared

    @ yorkie and cancan

    if they were to get what they “want”..how do u think york will pay for it??? once again the only losers in that situation will be the students..they could possibly be using endowment money..or increasing our tuition fees….either way we are screwed…BIG TIME!

  118. Yorkie

    Although, I’m not factoing in the whole “Unit 2 Job Security” bit. I’m assuming they haven’t really ironed that part out yet.

  119. yorkette

    @ scared

    its okay…we were screwed as soon as this all began anyway

  120. CanCan

    @ scared

    I have no idea… 😦 BUT if you think about it… York did save a lot of money with this strike. Although I don’t think that’ll cover anything lol.

    Universities always find a reason to increase tuition fees no matter how much, us, students fight… so this will be just another place our money goes to….

    At the end of the day… I have no rebuttal and I’m not making sense. Good point scared lol

  121. CanCan

    @ Yorkie

    From what I understand, a 2 year contract will allow them to strike again in 2010 in the mass strike, and the 3 year won’t… although we’re in 2009 right now… I don’t get how that works at all.

  122. Yorkie

    @ scared

    That’s true, we were all screwed when this began. But think of the alternative that York faces if it doesn’t pay up to the union… full refunds to us undergrads. Honestly the decision is obvious.

  123. alien baby

    @ yorkette and mike

    id is required to vote at all meetings. there are many votes. we vote on accepting the agenda and adjourning the meetings, and countless other things. because it is a democratic union, people can get up and move to change or reorder what’s on the agenda. if enough people vote that way, it happens. people (like cupe doll) can also get up and suggest tactics, bargaining priorities, or “radical ideologies” be changed, and everyone can vote on that. the fact that no one with cupe doll’s strong opinions ever has gotten up and expressed them in the last 8 meetings i’ve been to suggests to me that either s/he is too chickenshit to stand up and say what s/he says here over and over again anonymously, or else s/he doesn’t attend them. i doubt cupe doll could identify the “radical” leadership of the union in a line-up, whereas anyone who goes to them gets a sense of the players pretty quickly.

    the offer York is touting now as “new” or final or whatever is almost the same as the november one, which hasn’t factored in any of the stuff they waited until january to talk to the union about. the last few days discussions haven’t meant sqat. i think what York was doing was feeling out the different units to get a better sense of what to put in a forced ratification offer so as to turn the units against each other. one is coming down the pike for sure now. and if that fails, then be sure, york has a little extra up its sleeve to offer everyone something they will accept, it just doesn’t want to give it away. one way or the other this thing is getting settled in the next 10 days.

  124. Yorkie

    @ CanCan

    Hm, that explains York’s hesitance then… They’re trying to stop the problem at the source, stop a civil war in a sense. I don’t know if any kind of amped up deal will ever be able to compensate for that sticking point in the Unio’s ideology. Guess it will have to depend on either how strong Cupe’s ‘solidarity’ is or the government…

    Wonder if this’ll be in the history books, lol.

  125. Soraya

    I think we should all get to bed. We might have school on Monday 😉

  126. CanCan

    @ Yorkie

    It should definitely go down in history books… or some business books about labour disputes or something 😛

    @ Soraya

    Agreed… ahahha off to bed, night guys!

  127. DUN DUN DUN

    my gut feeling is the strike will not end sorry guys…

  128. @alien baby: “i doubt cupe doll could identify the “radical” leadership of the union in a line-up”

    Love it. That’s the confirmation I’ve been waiting for.

    Now then. You’re quite right. I’ve identified and exposed the 3903 ideology. But I’ve only inferred there had to be a radical leadership. That this sort of evil doesn’t happen on its own.

    During past comments, one 3903 admitted there were radical “forces” in our loco local. But you’re the first to admit the radical leadership.

    Excellent. Hope you won’t mind when I’ll quote you on that.

  129. YS

    @scared

    that is why we should transfer out of this shit hole school.

  130. The strike most likely won’t end this week because the union is not going to lose face by accepting an offer less than 2% more than what was offered ages ago, when their own demands are well above 20%.

    THAT SAID, it is NOT York who is to blame, still.

    What those of you who have now jumped onto the CUPE bandwagon have forgotten is that York HAS NO MONEY (actually, NO ONE has money). York has plunged into red ink like it’s the Titanic, and no “salary limits” are going to change that.

    Furthermore, the simple fact that York is offering a THREE-year deal will kill any positive ratification…CUPE 3903, with proven “radical members and leadership” (you don’t need to hear it from a member to know it’s true), and arguably one of the most militant unions in the province, will lose even MORE face by opting out of the 2010 strike.

    York’s offer will need to be >20% over two years for CUPE to finally shut the hell up.

  131. P.S. What I wish my kids would one day read in history books is the abolishment of labour unions who bitch like they’re in an early 20th-century Communist shithole…oh wait, or is that what they really want? Hmm.

  132. Mike Oxbig

    just let these two sides duke it out

    people need to leave them alone

  133. Kelso

    I wish I could stay away from this site, but it is addictive! I think it is making me more worried reading everyone’s speculations than if I sat in the dark not knowing anything! :S

  134. Dray the CUPE Member

    @cupedoll:

    I just saw you wrote this: “During past comments, one 3903 admitted there were radical “forces” in our loco local.” And I went back and saw your response to my comment.

    I was saying precisely the opposite. That the radical forces could in no way be described as “powerful” (as you did) — meaning that there are a few radical loudmouths, but they’re really not very influential.

  135. alien baby

    @ cupedoll

    quote me all you want. there are ‘radicals’ in cupe 3903 and there are leaders, just as there are conservatives and there are followers..and they’re not necessarily all the same person. if you ever went to meetings, you’d know who was who, who has power, and who talks to who. my point is, judging from your comments, you don’t. you tell an engaging and sensical-sounding story, in a parodic second-person plural (“we will not be satisfied until…) which simplifies and distorts what is a much more complicated, improvised and confusing process.

    since you care so passionately about your profession and your students, why don’t you make your critiques out loud and in person in arenas where it could have more direct effect, ie at a union meeting?

  136. Jason

    Apparently 4,000 york students are setting a deadline for negotiations to end, Jan 15th, and then if nothing is settled, resolve it with binding arbitration. If both do not agree to this, they are going to call on the Government for back to work legislation.

  137. ARSH

    This is the article i found on THE STAR.

    The union representing striking York University workers is not impressed with a new offer made by the administration and does not plan to even bring it to a vote.

    “We thought we had made progress in talks but this offer is a step back,” said Tyler Shipley, spokesperson for CUPE 3903. “We are going to keep at (negotiations) till we are happy.”

    Yesterday afternoon, York officials made public a three-year offer they say provides 0.7 per cent more in overall wages and benefits than previous offers, through improved child care and professional development, for example. The offer also provides more full-time faculty positions and links future benefits to the growing ranks of employees.

    “Time is of the essence, so we’re trying to negotiate a settlement by taking leadership and trying to find an expeditious way to solve this dispute,” said York University spokesperson Alex Bilyk.

    He said York’s newest offer carries a total dollar value that is 10.7 per cent more over three years in wages and benefits – up from 10 per cent – but has the same 9.25 per cent hike in wages as previous offers.

    He said York has sweetened the pot through richer benefits and job security, citing the offer of creating 22 new full-time faculty positions, which Bilyk said would help address union concerns over job security for contract faculty.

    It also includes a 5 per cent increase in funding for graduate teaching assistants and indexing of funds so they grow along with the booming ranks of employees.

    Shipley said the offer is better than before but not significantly. He said three contentious issues remain largely unresolved.

    The union is seeking a five-year teaching contract for its faculty as opposed to the eight-month contracts they have right now. “We are looking for a situation where folks can be teaching for five years. We are nowhere around there right now,” he said.

    Another demand is for increased funding – pay and scholarships – for graduate students.

    CUPE 3903 also wants a two-year deal that will expire in 2010 along with those of CUPE locals at other Ontario universities, which would bolster the union’s bargaining clout across the province.

    Talks resume tomorrow between York and the union representing 3,340 teaching assistants, contract faculty and graduate assistants.

    The union will table the proposal at a membership meeting today to get feedback. “We’re expecting that members will not be satisfied with the offer,” said Shipley, dismissing any chances of a vote on it. “We are disappointed that York has decided to tell (the public) about this offer, which is not substantial.”

    Meanwhile, a grassroots student group formed to push for an end to the strike welcomed the offer last night and called on CUPE members to give it serious consideration.

    “It looks like York has made a serious and comprehensive offer aimed at ending the strike,” said business student Lyndon Koopmans, a co-founder of the online group “yorknothostage.com.”

    “We are not going to say whether the offer is good or bad for the union. However, we want the union to think very carefully about the strike’s devastating impact on students before they decide how to respond. It would be wrong for the union to turn down this offer just because they think they can get more.”

    The student group will hold a news conference today to urge an end to the strike.

    http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/563501

    —————————————————-
    I m not sure whatz gonna happen. Everybody has one question “when its gonna be over”. When we ll get back to class. But no one really knows. Throughout this strike not a lot of people paid any attention towards york student. I returned to school after 2 years with a hope to complete my under grad. Now even if we assume that we are going back to school this monday. But how much time we ll get to complete our 2 semesters. Does that mean that we ll be rushing thru all the new chapters. York is not a bad university but the politics made it look ugly.

  138. Yorkie

    So has this negociation deadline thing been passed yet? Will it actually happen if they go on for that long?

  139. amy doan

    did anyone notice of a common message sent out by the Uni. in YorkU mailbox, regarding the due date for winter tuition? i got one, but unable to read the info! Pls share if u can

  140. juliette

    @ amy

    same thing happened to me so i got my friend to coy and paste hers, here it is:

    Dear Student,

    To assist you with financial planning, your student account statement now reflects the outstanding balance for both your Fall and Winter courses. Normally, payment would be due on January 10; however, due to the strike, the tuition payment deadline for the Winter 2009 term will be determined once classes resume. Interest charges on outstanding balances will not accrue for the duration of the strike.

    For your convenience, we will continue updating the Web site as new information becomes available.

  141. @Dray the CUPE Member: “.. the radical forces could in no way be described as “powerful”..”

    Oh, come on. You still persist denying our radical forces?

    You don’t realize how much false denial there’s been to me calling attention to you radicals. Like, no, there are no radical forces. Like yes, there are powerful radical forces — but no, the radical forces have had enough, they all want an end to the strike now. Like, yes, there are radical forces — but not organized (just a few “loudmouths”). Like yes, there are radical forces — but they are not in leadership positions.

    Can you radicals at least get your story straight? Better yet — give up on the uber-transparent false denials? Since we petitioned to impeach the executive — and so comfortably referred to the executive we sought to impeach as “the radicals”?
    And since I’ve quoted from electronically accessible pseudo-academic sources fully and proudly acknowledging your radical agenda this strike? Sources not least accessible from 3903 sites?

    Best yet. Instead of wasting more time inconsistently false denying — why not discuss what the radical agenda is? How it can better be justified? And why you don’t consider it ideological as (not only) I do?

    However unable, at least Pally Wally was prepared to address the issues. Maybe I should not have ridiculed his position — since he never stooped to mere false denying.

    @alien baby: “.. why don’t you make your critiques out loud and in person in arenas where it could have more direct effect, ie at a union meeting?”

    What? Address myself just to your radical choir? Well — maybe I will out myself. *After* I’ve done everything in my (admittedly limited) power to get more general membership out. And after I’ve done everything in my (not so limited) power to expose not only our 3903 agenda — which you radicals have so bragged about whenever not falsely denying it — but, more importantly, at least some what our radical 3903 agenda entails.

    Exposing our 3903 agenda and some of what it means is fully consistent with being a “valued educator”. In a way, I’ve done more to assist critical thinking due to this strike. And you know what? I do love my job. I love it so much — I’ll do it for totally free.

    Now go ahead, alien baby. Tell me how substandard my abilities as an educator are.

  142. Dray the CUPE Member

    @Cupedoll:

    (Ah, I checked back just in time!)

    I’m not a radical. You wouldn’t even identify me as such if you met me (which I’m assuming you will at this upcoming GMM). What’s more, my posts here make abundantly clear that I’m not radical.

    I think you’re a little off your rocker. You really need to calm down, take a deep breath, and re-examine the situation.

    Actually, I think you’re nuts. Seriously nuts.

  143. Dray the CUPE Member

    People on this site are advised to take what Cupedoll says with a grain of salt.

    Cupedoll is really not seeing things clearly. She’s right to be angry about her situation — as are all members of the York community — but she really needs to clear her head out.

    Remember: CUPE has always been readily accessible to everybody in person, on the web, on Facebook, even on this forum. I’ve cut-and-pasted communications from our internal listserve, which has found its way onto Facebook — all of which CUPE leaders have expressed acceptance of, because they want people to see them as they are, in full view.

  144. How often have we been told by 3903 members not to keep “leaking” internal updates here? Not to interfere with bargaining? That even asking info here is somehow illegitimate?

    Often. Repeatedly often. And now Dray wants us believing “CUPE leaders” have no trouble with students getting informed? Since “they want people to see them as they are, in full view”?

    Lol. Seems like pretty radical lying to me. Call me nuts.

  145. yorkiee

    whats the likeliness that the school year will be cancelled ??

  146. Bobert

    @all CUPE Members

    Can we just end this preaching of CUPE’s out there to help us vs. CUPE is controlled with left wing guerrillas. I am sick of CUPE cohorts coming on this blog jamming your ideologies down our throats.

    What burns me even more about all this and I think I speak for many of us who read this blog is that despite those of us who challenge either of your views in any ways in any way (i.e glossing over many significant direct questions to you in comments on here) you never give up, or at the very least acknowledge that some of us don’t care for your talking points rhetoric that you keep regurgitating over and over again. Do you really expect us to take what you hand feed us at your word without any sort of intelligent analysis of it?

    Now I obviously don’t speak for all CUPE members, there are a fair bit that show some dignity and respect to the undergrads and the public that are being kept out of the loop throughout this entire conflict. Unfortunately it seems extremely rare when many CUPE members are straight with us.

    Maybe the issues are really with the organism of the CUPE Local itself maybe it isn’t but when it comes time to demonstrate how you actually adhering to any of your values you claim to espouse (like true openness, not trendy web 2.0 crap), you always come up short, when you’ve got reporters holding a microphone up to you for a newspaper or news report SPEAK UP.

  147. free press

    If CUPE is open to discussion, why were so many questions and (polite) criticisms deleted from the ‘support cupe’ facebook group? Why was every reference to the osgoode and schulich disruptions deleted in their immediate aftermath? Why is the 3903strike.ca website the only strike related website/group to not allow comments?

    CUPE is willing to communicate, but only if the communication is vetted and approved by them.

  148. Dray the CUPE Member

    @free press:

    I don’t know. I didn’t know about that.

    What I do know is that, on the same listserves that Cupedoll reads, there has been discussion about how internal dissent has been leaking out onto the web, and it was agreed that the public deserved a clear view of how 3903 operates, and so it was therefore acceptable.

    CUPE is not controlled by left-wing guerillas, although there are some. CUPE’s constitution is designed precisely to prevent a cabal from running the show. And this was tested in September, successfully, when a cabal that WAS running the show was summarily booted.

    I think Cupedoll is nuts because she recognizes only those few radical elements in the union and somehow misses entirely the vast, huge moderate blob. She doesn’t seem to want to see it, either.

    I really, really think she has a screw loose. It’s deeply unfortunate that yorkstrike2008.wordpress.com has devolved into her personal soapbox, because no longer are people getting the clear, unbiased view of the strike that this blog used to offer.

    Plus, as has been commented many times, Cupedoll is hardly putting her own words to action by hiding behind a moniker. It seems her only activism consists of posting on this group, and nothing more. She is in no way informative about the strike or otherwise helpful to students.

  149. Dray the CUPE Member

    … anyway, we BOTH have a meeting to attend, now.

  150. Soraya

    @ yorkie

    It won’t be cancelled. This is a really good post in another thread,

    “CUPE member with child
    January 8, 2009 at 1:59 am
    My god – this site has simply spiralled into really bad speculation and a platform for cupedoll to make up whatever she likes about some big bad union ideologues. And what’s her ’side’ been doing all of this time, sleeping? Oh right, they’re all too scared to excercise their right to vote. What baseless tripe. Why not give her the keys to the front page so she can really get people freaked out? What’s that – it’s already been done? Go figure…

    I could see this site going in that direction as soon as the moderator Yorkstrike started posting directives unequivocally aimed at breaking the union with back to work legislation. So much for neutrality from the hosts point of view. It’s too bad because this site really had the potential to be the most accurate source of neutral news on the strike.

    In light of everybody freaking out about what’s going on, I’ll offer a cooler analysis.

    Here’s what is happening:

    1) the union presented a revised package (i.e. cut a number of outstanding issues) to the mediator before the beginning of holidays (early December). The university didn’t respond until the end of December. As you know, talks resumed in the beginning of January.

    2) Since then they’ve been at the table for 5 days negotiating. The university made the first move since coming back with an offer to increase funds by a value of approximatetly $250,000 and little else. This works out to approximately $73.50 per union member, total. The union responded by cutting an approximately equivalent amount from their demands. i.e. very slow movement.

    3) The university decides that it wants to assess the strength of the will of the union, so it posted its media PR release saying that it wishes the union leadership to put their “comprehensive” offer to a membership vote. Perhaps they thought the union would be fooled into thinking it’s a forced ratification vote and thus a ratification vote could occur without the university side “wasting” that card. As for the union – they’re unlikely to even vote on it, not wanting to play into the universities game. Whatever the case may be there are still negotiations scheduled for Friday – surprised cupdoll? It’s obviously not York’s final offer – there never are ‘final offers’ in negotiations unless bankruptcy is the only alternative.

    4) I would predict thattwe should expect a forced ratification vote to come next week. While I’m not brushed up on the proceedure, it could well be that York will increase its offer incrementally on Friday and send it to a forced rat. Unless it’s a significant increase, it will likely be rejected by the union.

    5) After a forced rat likely fails next week, we will see the university and the union sit down and seriously negotiate. We should expect lots of movement from the university side. I’ll explain why and why it’s taken so long to get here.

    The University claims that the union is demanding a 20% increase in their overall package (a figure that the union disputes). Even assuming that this figure is remotely correct it would amount to less than a 1.5% portion of the university’s overall budget. This isn’t a statement of opinion, this is fact. So if the union doesn’t budge, then the university has 3 choices:

    choice #1) Cancel the fall semester and possibly the winter as well, refund a significant portion of tuition fees (I ballpark it around 150-300 million dollars), lose appromximately 200% as much in government funding, and risk an exodus of angry students away from York (wether their anger is directed at York or at the union, doesn’t really matter).

    choice #2) capitulate to the union and give them the supposed 20% increase, which would be valued at a little less than $13 million dollars (CUPEs overall contract is worth 62 million dollars).

    choice #3) Speedily negotiate to save the term (or the whole year) as well as try to avoid giving the union everything it wants. It’s most likely that the union will get most of what it wants but may still make some concessions in the interest of getting back to class before it’s “too late”.

    You people do the math.

    To me it’s obvious that if the union doesn’t accept forced rat then we’ll see option #3 succeed within a short but intense period of time.

    So, keeping those cold numbers in perspective – how many people here really think it’s likely that the university is going to cancel the fall term, let alone the whole year? If they were to, then they would be utter ideologues with no other agenda that sticking it to a union.

    Last, why did it take so long to get here. Tthe answer is obvious:

    We’re only going to see significant movement and negotiations when there’s significant threat of something really bad happening (for the university it’s the threat of the term being outright cancelled, for the union it’s the threat of being starved out). The university had time to sit around and wait in November and December – they hoping that the union would fight amongst itself while the university wages a PR campaign aimed at making the union look greedy. It may have succeeded in convincing the general public, but to most CUPE members – the university’s plan has backfired. Alex Bilyik has been the biggest asset the union could possibly have wished for during this strike. By publishing what we know to be blatantly false and misleading information, it’s galvanized the union together.

    So, the next few weeks are when things are going to get very intense – there’s going to be a lot of threats and unbased speculation flying around. It’s going to feel like all is hopeless and will be lost. It is my view that unless the university side is absolutely insane, rather than cunning, the term will not be lost – it will be ‘miraculously’ saved at the 11th hour.

    Did anybody really expect that these things could get resolved before the 11th hour?”

    Hope that helps.

  151. Bobert

    ^
    my point proven exactly, cut and paste rhetoric, tell me now is most of CUPE apathetic and unaware what goes on its its own union?

    and for the record with the exception of a few rare moments where there was straight talk (the above post not being one of these moments) most of what i’ve read from CUPE Doll and Cupe Member With Child has mostly been the same talking points over and over again, thanks Soraya for proving my point by just copying and pasting it over again

  152. =)

    what week into the strike are we in?

  153. Yorkie

    Well, at least Cupe Member With Child’s post sounded more level headed rather than the insane badmouthings of Cupe Doll and Dray the CUPE Member. I know that no ones knows anything until it happens, but having the information laid out to me in one big post at least keeps me sane enough for when it does happen.

  154. Bobert

    ha ha, again like I said before with rare exceptions its mostly been needless ideological spillover in between pockets of real updates

  155. Soraya

    I rarely copy and paste anything. Like Yorkie said, it surely sounds like the most level-headed comment and I was trying to help. My sincerest apologies?

  156. quifyiftibTit

    познакомлюсь для секса в Докучаевске

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