Most People Want Binding Arbitration

Here are the results of the CP24 Poll:

Should the provincial government step in to force binding arbitration and end the York strike?

Yes, they should (59 %) 4871 votes
No, they shouldn’t (38 %) 3098 votes
Maybe (3 %) 256 votes

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/HTMLTemplate?Results&id=116695&pollid=116695&tf=ctvlocal/ctvNewsSub.html&cf=ctvlocal/cp24.cfg&hub=CPHomeNews&subhub=VoteResult&poll_name=CTVNewsCPHome

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197 Comments

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197 responses to “Most People Want Binding Arbitration

  1. B

    …now what are the chances McGuinty’s Liberals will get off their asses and call an emergency session?

    Not gonna happen.

  2. Commuter

    If they’re negotiating now, why impose binding arbitration? That would just make our time lost even more of a waste if this whole strike thing ends up happening again because they couldn’t collectively bargain.

    Only if negotiations break down would it even be appropriate for them to be legislated back to work.

  3. Mike Oxbig

    people easily could have got friends to exaggerate the numbers

  4. Yorkie

    @Mike Oxbig

    That’s true.

  5. Bobert

    the disclaimer does say that its an UN-SCIENTIFIC POLL

  6. B

    ^The fact that it’s a CP24 poll should have attested to that as well.

  7. dsd

    Last time I checked 4871 people out of 50,000, taking into account that this is not a scientific poll, doesn’t represent the majority (or the “most people).

  8. BFD

    Yeah, and 4 out of 5 dentists chew gum!

    It’s probably closer to the truth to say something like;
    most people who watch CP24 and took the time to vote,
    voted for arbitration.

    I’d say you can rely on this poll about as much as any
    other speculative opinion you’d find randomly flashed
    across your tv screen.

    Just my $0.02, ’cause I’m waiting for real news.

    “They got lies so big
    They don’t make a noise
    They tell ’em so well
    Like a secret disease
    That makes you go numb”
    FZ -rip-

  9. Guess Who

    Belive a poll where you can vote as many times as you want? I don’t think so.

  10. B

    The results are not generalized to the greater population. The most refers to the group of people who responded to it.

    If this were a Scientific poll, among other things, a formula could have been applied to generalize this to a greater population with an error margin introduced.

  11. Yorkie

    Ugh, I HATE stats, lol.

  12. Andrew

    @ Guess Who
    “Belive a poll where you can vote as many times as you want? I don’t think so.”

    The NHL seems to have no problem with it for All Star voting. -thumbs up- lol

  13. M

    well i say…. get the hell back to work already…

  14. Bobert

    its really a typo on the part of yorkstrike2008 for saying “most people” since most online polls are about as reliable as having a junkie for an accountant

  15. boo to stats.

    most people that took part in THAT poll want binding arbitration. that says nothing about everyone.

  16. strikeliveon

    man i hope the strike goes on…

    i am scheduled in for work for the next 2 weeks

  17. chillin'

    @strikelivon

    you’re the man/woman

  18. strikeliveon

    i wanted to make a facebook group called

    ‘secretly i LOVE THE YORK STRIKE’…

    but i didn’t want my name under the admin tag

  19. Pally Wally

    Is this a group that never bothered to watch the brilliant film “Network”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTN3s2iVKKI or read Chomsky’s “Manufacturing Consent”?

  20. j

    @ Guess Who

    I’m not defending the accuracy of this poll in any way, but you COULD only vote once per/computer.

    … I tried, haha.

  21. Yorkie

    @ j

    I confess, I tried as well. Lol

  22. B

    ^there are ways around that. But, you would have to be hell bent on voting numerous times in a poll that has no ramifications.

  23. ss

    soooo I am at york right now…its so dead. anyone have any requests?

  24. Mike Oxbig

    pull the fire alarm

  25. ss

    done and done….lol

  26. pass/fail

    ^ loooooooool please do so and pull the fire alarm as Mike says…

  27. Guess Who

    ahaha pull the fire alarm – that’s jokes.

  28. @ Pally Wally:

    oh geeze.

  29. =)

    Are they negotiating today or is it just the news articles which state that the negotiations are on?

    note: I just woke up so I’m clearly not aware of what is happening outside my house in this “big bad world”

  30. Confused....

    Yes I believe they are negotiating but I haven’t heard anything about how they are going yet

  31. Confused....

    But I am saying that they are negotiating strictly from postings on this site

  32. Aaron

    The CUPE website mentions that they continued negotiations today. At least they’re not giving up.

    Frankly, I’m sick to death of this situation and the “loco local.” I hope they all get fired.

  33. bob

    if they dont reach an agreement before thursday the provincial legislature is stepping in

  34. Clueless

    How do you know that?

  35. Pally Wally

    “if they dont reach an agreement before thursday the provincial legislature is stepping in”

    I sincerely doubt this.

  36. Yorkie

    Cupe Doll are you in any way able to confirm this?

  37. D

    As long as negotiations are in progress, they won’t step in.

  38. Mike Oxbig

    …most people want to be in hundreds of orgies before they die…does that mean it’s going to happen?
    NO

  39. Already happened for me… like 8 years ago. It’s a lifestyle choice, not an addiction.

  40. Yorkie

    Just saw another newscast on CP24, saying that basically no classes this week and that CUPE members are confident that a deal will be struck. Not sure how much I should read into this, but I guess it depends on how many actually “key” issues they got through in negociaitons today.

  41. Ophelia

    Well has anyone got an update for negotiations today? I thought there were regular updates to CUPE members who participate on this forum. I’ve been holding my breath for these negotiations for soooo long!

  42. Sick of this

    i’m really sick of this. anyone think we’ll be back in class next monday ?

    http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090104/090105_york/20090105/?hub=CP24Home

  43. hoofbite

    it has become apparent that a few people who regularly post on this site need attitude adjustments. let me explain further.

    I AM: A 4th year student in Political Science.
    I WANT: To get back to class.

    Now that you have a background on where my beliefs are rooted, allow me to explain the dilemma we all face in the most logical terms.

    (1) The strike is not about the students (or the vast majority of the students), therefore the strike should not affect the students. If you disagree with this then don’t bother replying.

    (2) The issues in contention involve money. Whether that money hide itself under terms like “heath benefits” or “job security” or “free tuition”, the strike is about an increase in funds – plain and simple.

    (3) The worlds economies are in recession. Canada still remains afloat compared to nations like the US, or the UK, however there have been clear signs that the Canadian economy is slowing down.

    (4) The Teaching Assistants at York are among the highest paid in Canada. It doesn’t matter that they might be “impoverished”, the fact is that they are paid more than the vast majority of teaching assistants in the country.

    (5) Students DO NOT become T.A.’s for the pay. Everyone knows what the job entails, and everyone knows that the job is done for the reference. Much like an unpaid internship. This is fact. Why become a T.A. if your goal is to be able to pay for your ENTIRE education when you know you are only paid for 10hrs of work/ week. Following this line of logic – why bitch about it?

    It is ridiculous to think that students who have the audacity to complain about wages accept a job where they know there payment is capped. The job is accepted (especially if the TA is intending on pursuing a career in education) for the respect that comes with it.

    Well you’ve lost that respect.
    Go back to work.

  44. Take this with a grain of salt, as it is just one professors opinion. However, I met for coffee today with a York Professor who is a member of CUPE3903, and he said that he doesn’t think that there will be class in Jan. He said that there are just way too many outstanding issues to deal with, and that ONLY the threat of the year being canceled and/or binding arbitration will fix this.

  45. royally fed up

    well put hoofbite!

  46. @hoofbite

    For the most part, well said. If the job of TA is not good enough, just don’t take it. Be a grad school, and work your hours some place else. It is not that hard to do!

  47. royally fed up

    @YorkIsAwesome

    If no classes in January then our year will seriously be beyond screwed than it is right now. I’m truly embarassed to be a student at york. No other school pulls this crap!

  48. j

    Granted, we’ve talked about how wrong the media has been thus far, but I like the optimism 🙂

    http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_30661.aspx

  49. j

    (even if the optimism is coming from the mouths of CUPEs)

  50. jk12

    on the cupe website, http://www.cupe3903.tao.ca/ in the top right corner, it says that there is a GMM scheduled for this Thursday
    does this mean that the union thinks a deal will be reached by then? does it mean that the union is getting scared of back to work legislation? does it mean that the union may actually give in (i highly doubt the third option)
    CUPE Doll, a little help s’il vous plaît

  51. MR Two

    PR stunts IMO. Fake optimism to dissuade the movement for BTW legislation.

  52. P D

    @ YorkIsAwsome

    Just wondering how confident are you in your professor and his comments about school maybe not starting in January. It seems like a professors opinion on this situation could be taken without hesitation but as soon as I hear that one person says the school may start in February, another says that the strike may be ending this week. I find this really frustrating. I just want to know the truth…

  53. @jk12

    They have GMM’s just about every week. I would not read much into it.

  54. @P D

    I d0n’t know what to tell you. I know that he is one of the few 3903 members who are 100% against the strike which leads me to believe he may not be on the ups about everything that is going on with the strike.

    But I think that his comments are similar to what others on the board have said. York and UPE agreeds on the little thigns, but there still isn’t much being done about the small things. Overall, CUPE and York is still quite far apart on a lot of money. With that said, I DO hope that he is wrong. I want to go back on Monday, No sooner, no later.

  55. j

    @ P D

    the truth is no one but the people behind those closed doors knows what is happening, and how well or poorly negotiations are going. Everything else is speculation.

    @ jk12

    The GMM has been scheduled since before negotiations started – BUT if a tentative agreement is reached before Thursday, the fact that the meeting is already scheduled is a bit of a help – as it speeds along the ratification vote, etc etc process that needs to go on before classes can resume.

  56. Yorkie

    GMMs are just weekly things, but they do use them to discuss current offers. If they did get a significantly better offer, they would be discussing it then. I guess we could expect some updates then.

  57. Pally Wally

    Hoofbite,

    TAs are actually paid to study. Yes! That’s right kids, if you stay in school long enough you get paid to study! TA/RAing is a way of helping out, sort of mandated ‘thank-you’ for those funds. The “10 hours a week” as have been mentioned many times bear little resemblance to the amount of time most TAs (especially in their first year marking) spend; for many it is double that or more. Anyway, when someone says they are doing “postgraduate work” that means they have ‘graduated’ (ie. they have a BA) and now they are doing work, and as much as undergrads might like to think they are the centre of the world (as they’ve been told all through their lives) the ‘work’ being referred to is research – not TAing and RAing.

    If you want to know why York TAs are paid more, do some research on collective bargaining. The UAW/CAW used to set up contracts so that whoever out of the big 3 (chrysler, gm, ford) had been doing the best would have their contract come up first, and set the standard contract that the other 2 could then bargain against. Unfortunately, York always has the strongest position because as the second biggest (and by most calm-eyed rationalists accounts, see for example THES) best university in Ontario the onus happens to fall on them. Why not UofT? Well, their union doesn’t include contract faculty, and UofT’s endowment allows them to hire fewer contract faculty to begin with. So, that – combined with the higher cost of living AND York’s longstanding tradition (including the motto: The Way Must Be Tried) of pushing for socially democratic solutions means that it falls upon 3903’s shoulders to carry the weight of bargaining time after time.

  58. Aaron

    Did you really just refer to York as the second best university in Ontario? That is just wrong by all accounts. It falls well behind institutions like McMaster and Waterloo in terms of its reputation.

  59. theowne

    Where did you get the information that THES ranks York as second best? Waterloo, McMaster, Dalhousie, etc, all ranked above York on their list. York wasn’t in the top 200 at all.

  60. Aaron

    From different reports that I’ve seen, York typically falls somewhere in the top 20-25 of Canada’s top universities.

  61. Jason

    They would have to settle before February because after 11 weeks, the year can be cancelled. It will be a full nine weeks next tuesday.

  62. Jason

    End of January I think will be the latest, maybe early february, but for sure before feb 6th, after that the year is in jeporady I think

  63. Jason

    Well regardless, at this point, the damage has been done.

  64. Aaron

    It bears repeating that there is no way York will allow the year to be cancelled. Can you imagine the irreversible damage that would be done to York if they had to reimburse 50,000 students their tuition? That’s not even taking into account the catastrophic effect it would have on their already tarnished reputation. I doubt many people would even apply to the school if this year wasn’t saved.

  65. Austin Vigliano

    york will never cancel the year…maybe summer school but never an entire year…ever..it would cost them way to much money and what is left of their REP.

  66. Aaron

    I’ll be very surprised if this latest round of negotiations doesn’t yield a deal and outright shocked if yet another falling out between the two sides doesn’t produce back to work legislation being introduced.

  67. Pally Wally

    Oh, I’m sorry I only meant for social sciences – which I’m in. I don’t care about overall rankings since I’m not in math or CS. Also, how do you think schools get a reputation? I’ll give you a clue; it isn’t from their grads bad mouthing them all the time. GO YORK!

  68. F-Ed Up

    “Why not UofT? Well, their union doesn’t include contract faculty, and UofT’s endowment allows them to hire fewer contract faculty to begin with.”

    I clearly didn’t do the right kind of reseach when I decided to chose York over OISE. “Go York” indeed lol

  69. F-Ed Up

    And yes I am an ignoramus who can’t spell worth shite.

  70. theowne

    Social sciences? Pfft we all know those aren’t real subjects.

    (kidding, don’t kill me)

  71. Andrew

    @Pally Wally

    How’s that strategy working for the Big Three these days?

    I grant that you can construct a rating system so that any particular university looks good. However, it’s very surprising that any institutional ranking system would put York second in Ontario. Macleans’ “reputational survey”, their only ranking of all 48 Canadian universities head-to-head (and compiled from “expert” opinions), ranks York as tenth in Ontario. On the Shanghai Jiao Tong list, U of T and Mac are both in the top 100 worldwide (as are UBC and McGill); York does not appear.

    Also, it turns out that average salaries are poorly correlated with reputation at unionized universities in Canada. A better predictor is endowment.

  72. Pally Wally

    OISE is pretty cool; still – GO YORK!
    peep this:
    http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/hybrid.asp?typeCode=150
    These studies are fundamentally flawed anyway – but still, personally I think my department is way better than the UofT’s, but whatever.

  73. students are zero

    i’m completely for cancelling the year. we are paying for a service that we are not getting – it is that simple. Should I hope that things get resolved asap so we can get back to classes – WHY? My year has been ruined, why should I look forward to getting back to class soon. I am a pretty optimistic person, but when large amounts of money of mine are taken for granted there is no positive side. We are being treated like shit. I understand strikes happen, but never again should something like this be allowed to carry on past the point of repair.

  74. Stef

    Hindsight’s 20-20 naturally, F-Ed Up…I realized halfway through my third year that the reason they give such gigantic entrance scholarships is to bribe bright (and naive) high schoolers into enrolling, knowing they’ll likely be trapped after that…not unlike the witch in Hansel and Gretel.

  75. Yorkie

    I honestly just wish we could start this year over from scratch next year. This year is pretty much broken beyond repair and everyones’ grades are going to suffer for it.

  76. Yorkie

    Not to mention the waste of money, but that’s pretty much implied at this point. -__-

  77. Jason

    @ students are zero It happened in 2000/01, almost in 2005 and now again, so most likely it will happen again, as long as there are unions, there will always be strikes

  78. anonymous

    i tottally agree with you yorkie…my plan is to freaking apply to law school after my fourth year and this is my third year and i can almost guarantee my gpa will suffer and i cant afford any fuck ups due to a STRIKE especially.

  79. york student

    so no updates today, i guess? it would be nice to c one just to get an idea of where things are at.

  80. york student

    cupe members, please be kind enough to share and put us slightly out of our misery.

  81. Pally Wally

    Andrew,

    I think I said something about how silly those rating systems are. MacLean’s is among the worst, read their….is it even a magazine?…It’s clear where their politics lie, of course THES is just as biased, I guess my point is you really need to do more research than these surveys.

    As for the CAW, their membership gave up around the time of Bob Rae’s government. Don’t even get me started on the CAW.

    “Also, it turns out that average salaries are poorly correlated with reputation at unionized universities in Canada. A better predictor is endowment.”

    I almost mentioned this myself – it pretty much means that ‘reputation’ is roughly representative of how rich the people that went there are, and by extension how much they give so that their perhaps smart- perhaps not kids (example: Bush Jr) can go there. More money means more funds to bring in famous scholars, attract better students (for your kids to ride the coattails of), and so on. York has made up for some of this by producing programs and departments on the cutting edge of social theory, rather than those which are more steeped in tradition. A lot of this, however, is getting royally f*cked up by our government’s idea of what we should be researching.

  82. Rolling my eyes

    Are they going to be talking tomorrow?

  83. Yorkie

    Most likely, unless there’s a deal or some problem they’ve kept secret up until now. -_-

  84. The only excuse for not talking is laryngitis at this point!

  85. Frank

    I don’t believe that an agreement between the two sides will really and truly improve the quality of education for students.As a student of York, I have experienced countless TA’s and Professors with poor delivery and clarification of course material. The administration at York is no better. The bureaucratic approach characteristic of the administration ensures very little if anything is every done.
    If there’s one thing I’ve learned in my university career, not to say its the only thing, it would be that it’s all about the money.
    Go ahead give CUPE3903 11%, 12%, or 13%, the reality is that in the classroom very little will change and essentially the students will pay. If we don’t pay literally, we will pay when we have to complete a compressed year with respectable marks.
    Thanks

  86. D

    So much silence for so long? Wouldn’t be surpised if a tentative deal is in the works.

  87. students are zero

    @ jason , unions do equal strikes , but there should be some sort of government intervention to protect students in this type scenario.

    We didn’t sign up for this. Strikes happen- fine, but I am completely separate from their problems, I am not a TA who makes a wage, I am a student who has earned my wage to pay for an education – yet I’ll take the financial hit for the “better” of the York community. There is something fundamentally wrong with that.

  88. Yorkie

    I wouldn’t be surprised if we didn’t get an update til tomrrow morning. I wouldn’t be happy, but I wouldn’t be surprised…

  89. anonymous

    if im not mistaken last night the update was pretty much stating that the little things were mostly out of the way and now the big things were now to be dealt with? if this is correct for some reason my thought process is pretty much that this will be taking a bit longer than we are anticipating..according to me if they just had those things to talk about wouldnt it have been over in the evening tonight at least…i dont know its just that im a little pessimistic about this round of negotiations from my T.A.’S ive been hearing they plan on striking till mid to the end of January..i guess well have to wait and see

  90. Yorkie

    Wouldn’t be surprised if that happens either. This is the part of the negociations that really counts. Doubt it will take a day, but we’ll see..

  91. Yorkie

    Just FYI, YUFA will soon be discussing back to class measures. I guess you guys can address your complaints/concerns to the email below:

    “5 Jan 09 – Back to Class Discussions

    Dear YUFA Members,

    With the exception of the parties’ agreement to extend deadlines for some Leaves & Fellowships, the Employer has not responded to issues raised repeatedly by YUFA to date, through JCOAA, with respect to the CUPE 3903 strike. We are continuing to pursue discussions with the Employer.

    As Co-Chair of the Joint Committee on Administration of the Agreement (JCOAA), I have been in touch with and received agreement from the Chair of Senate with respect to the need for a back to class meeting (date yet to be confirmed) to “explore and identify potential areas in need of coordination”. We will keep members informed as information becomes available. In the meantime I encourage members to contact YUFA (yufa@yorku.ca) with any concerns.

    Mary Kandiuk, YUFA Vice-President Internal & YUFA Co-Chair Joint Committee on the Administration of the Agreement (JCOAA)”

  92. Andrew

    @Pally Wally

    On the other hand I find it bizarre that, at a university with arguably the second-best law and business schools in the country, with a highly regarded social science school, and with a tiny science faculty (of which I’m a member and I would dispute that it’s in any way bad), that the whole should be perceived as so much less than the sum of its parts that we would all scoff at the idea that York is #2 in Ontario. What’s dragging us down? Atkinson?

  93. =)

    Is atkinson’s reputation that bad?

  94. Soraya

    Any updated yet today? I just got home from work.

  95. Tropic

    @Andrew
    Its not just the faculties that count. I would say a major reason is the quality of students that York seems to attract for several reasons. From an international perspective, a lot of good students from foreign countries would choose UofT, Waterloo and McGill over York anyday. There isnt any rational reason for that except that UofT and Waterloo have really good brand names. With this strike, I doubt any of that is actually going to change any time soon.

  96. Cupe Doll

    @all

    Sorry, can’t confirm or deny the rumour we’ll get legislated back to work or binding arbitration if there’s no deal by Thursday.

    I can confirm the 3903 marching orders to spew forth onto any exposed media appendage how great bargaining’s going. But is it just coincidence we aren’t getting any updates 3903 promised today? How is it even possible for bargaining to suddenly be going so great? Just because my loco local is scared of getting spanked back to work? Just because bargaining hasn’t broken down again — yet? Can’t see it. Can’t see us in 3903 getting real about bargaining. Not after how ideological against it we were. Not without admitting what idiots we’ve been.

    Anyhow. If you check the comments @ today’s Toronto Star article ( http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/561591#Comments ) you’ll notice more 3903 members are *not* following our marching orders. And that, of course, includes me.

  97. Pally Wally

    Soraya,

    Why don’t you just read the thread if you want to know?

  98. HBK

    I totally agree with ‘students are zero’. Forget York’s rep, I want reparations. We didn’t get what we paid for, so I’m all for refund and canceling the year.

  99. ahhhh

    Hello Cupe doll,

    Does that mean that we wont be in school next week? Your post seemed a tad bit pessimistic. I was prepared to go back next monday because they have been on the bargaining table for 3 straight days! You really don’t think they have gotten anywhere close to reaching an agreement?

    Thanks in advance again!

  100. Student

    Comments are off on the “say no to back to work” post .. so i’m posting here.

    Back-to-work means that students can go back to school.

    Back-to-work means that our hard earned tuition money is not going to waste any longer.

    Back-to-work will mean that the TAs will have to get off their high horse and get back to work.

  101. Undergrad

    im praying for btwl, not just so i can get back to school, but also to get pleasure from watching the union fail on all their demands.

  102. Student

    @undergrad

    ditto on that 🙂

  103. marj

    seems like the tas and profs have totally screwed us for this year…wish we had done the college route…..york, yea right

  104. Yorkie

    Back to work legislation means a failure for both the University, the Union and consequently us undergrads, we already have the short end of the stick. Hopefully the negociations continue to progress.

  105. Ken

    I don’t want Back to Work legislation

    Say what you will, but I don’t like government to start interfering in every business and negotiation. Today is negotiations, tomorrow will be our private lives….

  106. Confused and Exasperated

    @Ken
    If I felt either side was competent or had my interest in mind sure I’d agree with you. Why would you trust these guys to have anyone’s interest in mind, they’re just playing politician, time for daddy politician to shut them up so we can all get back to our lives.

  107. Oppressed

    Why are comments turned off on the other post.
    Help, i’m being repressed!

  108. Jason

    shouldnt negotiations of been done by now

  109. Pally Wally

    If you’re an undergraduate about to become a graduate student, then it does appear that the union has your interests in mind.

  110. Jason

    No news usually means good news, but we were getting updates up until today with positive signs, hummm, wonder whats going on?? or does no news mean…

  111. B

    Where does this if they don’t settle by the end of the week the Government will step in stuff coming from?
    Queens Park is on break till February. What’s the likelihood that they will convene an emergency session? This all just seems very irrational and ridiculous.

  112. anon

    im thinkin what your thinking well the last part of your statement

  113. Aaron

    Ken, that’s a slippery slope if I ever saw one. I have no problem with the government intervening if CUPE continues to prove itself to be unable or unwilling to concede on some of its more unreasonable demands.

  114. Cupe Doll

    By the way. Some 3903 members totally agree with me. Some have contacted me ( cupe3903doll@yahoo.ca ) expressing their agreement and even to discuss what we can do to stop our loco local from further ruining the York community in future. But many others honestly can’t begin comprehending what dimension I come from.

    If and when we get back to classes, remember not to automatically hate on every 3903 you meet. Some of us have done everything in our power against the radical “whacko” ideologues in 3903 — and we feel worse than terrible how students got victimized by our loco local.

    We are not all the same. Just the opposite. And the following 3 comments @ today’s Star (link @ my prior post) nicely illustrate how divided we 3903s are.

    There’s been a “leak” — A “leak” from a “trusted” NDP source: unless outstanding issues get resolved FAST at the table, the Liberals are about to re-convene just to legislate us in 3903 back to work. And because of this back to work legislation “leak” — we are flipping right out in 3903. Get this — we’re supposed to shout out at every exposed media outlet how great bargaining’s going. That way, maybe the Liberals will hesitate legislating us back to work long enough for us to finish crushing York University. Except bargaining’s not going so well at all. Right? After demanding everything impossible and refusing to bargain at all, it’s too hard for us to suddenly bargain reasonably realistically. Too much like admitting we in 3903 have been complete idiots all along. And we can’t do that. We’re too proud how we hurt the York community. Makes us feel like we matter. Like we really can make a difference.

    Submitted by Cupe Doll at 3:50 PM Monday, January 05 2009

    Cupe Doll: — Bargaining is going just the way the union expected…except for this apparent “leak.” Their plan all along has been to wait out the university and just hope that the membership blindly follows. In other words, stomp their feet long enough just to get their way. Kind of like little children. Oh yeah, and threaten some dissenting members in the process just so that they can pretend the whole solidarity crap. I do hope the government legislates us back. Someone needs to teach CUPE 3903 a lesson.

    Submitted by T82 at 6:16 PM Monday, January 05 2009

    CUPE Doll — Hey CUPE Doll, I’m on the same CUPE listservs you’re on, it seems (several of them in fact). I’ve been reading the same emails as you discussing possible back-to-work legislation the last two days. What I have not been getting, however, is the sense that a. people are “flipping out”, and b. instructions to “shout-out” about how great bargaining’s going. I assume you are also getting the updates from the bargaining team like I am: you claim that negotiations are not “going so great”. Except, these updates are indicating that bargaining is actually going ok. There has been movement on several issues. They are actually communicating. There is still lots of work to be done. I don’t understand why you are so hell-bent on painting a black picture of the situation when you must want this whole thing to be settled ASAP. How are your sabotaging falsifications going to help undergrads get back to school, which is one thing that everyone wants at this point?

    Submitted by orange kitteh at 7:01 PM Monday, January 05 2009

    See what I mean? About how divided we 3903s are? Well — “orange kitteh”? The bargaining updates we got yesterday and didn’t get today do indeed indicate “There is still lots of work to be done.” Precisely the kind of work we 3903s have refused to do all along. Since we can’t be expected to negotiate with “neo-liberals” and realistically bargain with our class-enemies. And please stop pretending we all want to help students. What you want is to cause enough damage to capitulate York and, more importantly, to justify your ideological war. You want to cause harm in order to find identity and real meaning in your battle against “labour casualization”. You want to make a real difference — regardless how evil the difference you make.

    Why would I prefer students get back to class due to legislation instead of due to York capitulating at the bargaining table? That’s very simple, “orange kitteh”. Because, all else being equal, I prefer to see evil defeated. Because, unless legislation gets passed to curb how we 3903s have abused our “right to strike” — we’ll just abuse students and the entire York community with our right to strike even worse in 2010. And we’ll keep right on abusing ever worse until we get properly and righteously spanked.

  115. scared

    CAN SOMEONE PLEASE UPDATE!!!!!!

    WHAT HAPPENED TODAY????

    HAVE THEY AGREED ON SOMETHING????

  116. anon

    wow what a surprsie there stilla long way to go with the negotiations

  117. Jason

    Well bargaining is over for the day, they resume tomorrow

  118. Bargaining is set to continue tomorrow (Tuesday) Jan. 6. Bargaining will be at the Holiday Inn Express (30 Norfinch Drive, east of HWY 400 on Finch). The bargaining team will begin caucusing in the morning (around 10 a.m.).

  119. Chantel

    When school does resume, I really want a pass/fail option. I think it’s going to be pretty tough once (whenever) we go back.

  120. oh really...

    During the first month, I really wanted the strike to end. Now, two months later, I am sooo not interested in going back. In fact, I’ll be pissed off when I do have to go back. I am not in school mode, haven’t done work for two months and have lost all motivation.

    Oh, and I am not a slacker student…I get mainly A’s. Imagine how lazy the slacker students have become? Everyone I know is now too unmotivated and annoyed to go back. I am dreading how much stress we are going to have, and I am dreading going to school in May or June. THIS SUCKS and I wish I didn’t have to continue at York

  121. Pally Wally

    “CAN SOMEONE PLEASE UPDATE!!!!!!

    WHAT HAPPENED TODAY????

    HAVE THEY AGREED ON SOMETHING????”

    READ THE THREAD READ THE THREAD READ THE THREAD READ THE THREAD READ THE THREAD READ THE THREAD READ THE THREAD READ THE THREAD READ THE THREAD READ THE THREAD READ THE THREAD READ THE THREAD READ THE THREAD READ THE THREAD READ THE THREAD READ THE THREAD…..

  122. @ oh really,
    totally agree bro. i just got home riiiite now and am stoned as fudge man and listening to tunes; i cant imagine how im gona be doing work once school starts man wtf…. good luck to all i guess :S

  123. Ken

    The problem is if government steps in, then it becomes a routine for everyone to ask for government to step in every time something happens and both employers/employees will abuse it to their advantage
    And government interference will only get bigger in time

  124. Soraya

    Pally Wally

    Simplybecause I don’t have time tonight and if there is NO official released update I would have probably wasted about 15 minutes of my time.

    I’ve already worked 8 hours today and now I’m getting my stuff together so I can teach grade 5s about bullying tomorrow. SO, I’m soo sorry if I don’t have the time to read through all 90+ posts.

  125. Cupe Doll

    @Soraya et al

    Well, the official update only updates that bargaining will continue tomorrow. Looks like this:

    January 5, 2009

    Bargaining is set to continue tomorrow (Tuesday) Jan. 6. Bargaining will be at the Holiday Inn Express (30 Norfinch Drive, east of HWY 400 on Finch). The bargaining team will begin caucusing in the morning (around 10 a.m.).

    All members are welcome to observe the proceedings.

    Here’s how to get to the “Bargaining Table”:
    – From Downsview Station: Take the 196 up to Finch, and then take the 36 Finch West two stops past Jane Street. Walk north on Norfinch Drive.
    – From Finch Station: Take the 36 Finch West two stops past Jane Street. Walk north on Norfinch Drive.
    Map: http://www.ichotelsgroup.com/h/d/ex/1/en/hotel/yyzny/transportation?start=1

  126. Undergrad

    @ oh really

    took the words right out of my mouth.

    I am a pretty good student as well, and i just can’t seem to do any school related work. One of the reasons is we don’t know when school resumes, so whats the point of studying something now and school doesn’t open until weeks later?

  127. scared

    hahaha

    i agree w/ soraya

    thanks jason/miss dee

  128. Mark

    I looks like meither the Union nor the University care about their students. Cutting off the reading week, compressing exam schedules and courses… This approach will result in inappropriate preparation and lower grades. Why should we, students suffer if the two sides cannot or don’t want to come to an agreement, and unrealistic about the timing of this strike?

  129. CanCan

    GUYS! I KNOW IT’S LATE! BUT I SAW THIS! CHECK IT OUT! WTH?

    http://sponk.jenox.com/strike/

    THURSDAY?!?!
    Is this a legitimate website or not??? There’s no updates on the York website OR Cupe website as of now…. What is this website…

  130. Yorkie

    Like I said before,

    Year = Bombed to hell

    I’m confident the numbers are rising of people that would rather start a new year from scratch, rather than continue with this sorry excuse for an academic year.

  131. CanCan

    PS: I think the link I posted is a fake… with the Cupe’s website template and all… I’m so tired of hoaxes. GAH!

  132. Ken

    it is a hoax!

  133. Yorkie

    Yeah, that is SUCH bullcrap!

    Use the official sites, they do not say this.

  134. royally fed up

    wow can can your right what the heck …that doesn’t give us much time to finish work fro those of us working and having NO DATE when school could have resumed…wow …..STUPID ass school should have done this EARLIER.

  135. Yorkie

    Man, it seems everyone loves using this situation as an excuse to invoke “terrorism” on undergrads, lol.

  136. anon

    wtf that scared the crap outta me i got an assigment to finish up and i need this week off since ive been working

  137. flushafleshfarm

    I sure hope this is fake: “…….the university has finally gave in to our demands and hence we, CUPE 3903, have reached an agreement.”

    8)

  138. royally fed up

    wait its not legitimate ???? but it says on the site ??? ok see this is just ADDED STRESS to an already messed up school year uhhhhh

  139. CanCan

    AAAAAAAH! WHY WOULD PEOPLE DO THIS?!?!?
    Ahahahahha oh man… life…

  140. Yorkie

    People…

    IT’S FAKE

    Use only the official sources given before you give into such lies

  141. anon

    ****THE LINK IS FAKE**** i went to the cupe website and nothing shows that there has been an agreement

  142. aguyuno

    How convenient. Cupe knows they’re placing some hard core bullshit in that other post where they try to make us somehow think their back to work legislation harms us (Yeah, okay), so they turn comments off so that no one can prove them wrong.

    What tools. I hope no one here is truly dumb enough to take their side on this and be all BY GEORGE, THEY’RE RIGHT – GOING BACK TO SCHOOL IS STUPID!

  143. Yorkie

    Well, going back IS stupid at this point…

  144. anon

    i know for sure that that link is fake but how the hell did someone create that??

  145. Yorkie

    It’s probably more trolls trying to pull some crap, like some nameless ones noted on this forum…

  146. Yorkie

    Hurray hackers.

    Bastards…

  147. anon

    so it is a false link correct

  148. Davey

    I totally agree with some of the posters. I am a straight A student, applying to law school. I started out doing work when the strike started, but then quickly lost motivation. How can we be expected to study when our school is in jeopardy of being lost? I’m sorry, I am not going to study for hours all for nothing! ( I rather take some time to read a Tolstoy novel for my own pleasure!) The profs better be ready to deal with some serious malcontents among the student body if class ever resumes. I am not going to take any sh..! Why should we be punished for this complete lunacy? Why weren’t they seriously bargaining in good faith months ago?(as opposed to starting in January!) We as students were pawned from the very start.

  149. Davey

    Should say “school year”

  150. Yorkie

    Someone put that same fake site on the facebook strike page too, lol.

  151. Yorkie

    Cupe is intentionally not putting any specific updates it seems…Just that they’re continuing tomorrow morning *sigh* guess that’ll have to do…

  152. CanCan

    I’m sorry to cause commotion guys… I just panicked and didn’t really know what else to do… but then after I researched about it, I realized how it was a hoax… sowwie!!!

  153. Yorkie

    @CanCan

    No problem. Just tyring to keep the forum free of trolls, that’s all. ^_~

  154. s~

    Looks like CUPE is stalling for time =__=

  155. Yorkie

    Most likely. They just don’t want to get legislated, I personally don’t want them to either. So I guess they’ll stay in negociations and continue to say everythin’s good even if that might not be the case… Not that I know f course.

  156. P D

    The thing that sucks the most is that once we get back to university, we most likely will be bombarded with work and be expected to study for tests/exams in a very compressed scheduale. This undoubtly will cause alot of students’ marks to suffer. However, if York does give a pass/fail option(something i was personally hoping), than the no marks we recieve will look bad on the transcript of those who are planning to apply for grad schools and put us at a serious disadvantage. So we either work in the compressed semester and get crappy marks due to the proffs throwing material at us like no tomarrow, or we get the pass/fail and get laughed at by graduate schools. Looks likes the situation now is truly FUBAR

  157. Pally Wally

    Aren’t your graduate applications due already/soon?

  158. Pally Wally

    Which is to say: your fall marks won’t be on those transcripts anyway – so what is the worry?

  159. P D

    Im a second year student but the grad schools i plan on applying to after getting my BSc look at all four years of my undergrad and having just a “pass” instead of an actual grade in my second year will put me and many others at a disadvantage.

  160. Confused Student

    ummm i posted a comment on the previous topic but….according to the following site…the strike is over

    http://www.3903strike.ca/category/press-release

    is this true?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

  161. Confused Student

    sorry wrong link…here is the right one

    http://sponk.jenox.com/strike/#

  162. Pally Wally

    I’m sure if you contact departments you are applying to they will understand the situation.

  163. Dale

    @Confused Student

    CUPE’s site says they are meeting again tomorrow… so it isn’t over yet. Four days of talking is a good sign though

  164. Dale

    Alright, I looked at the link you posted… hilarious. You could have tried harder, though. It’s kind of a half-assed attempt.

  165. CanCan

    I posted the same link… about 30 posts before… hahah it’s a hoax… we can all relaaax

  166. Aaron

    Anyone could tell that link is a hoax. It doesn’t even have proper grammar.

    I can’t believe some people would rather the whole year be shelved. Are you joking? Sure, this strike has inconvenienced us all, and we did absolutely nothing to deserve the anxiety it’s wrought. Even still, it’s our responsibility to keep up on the work and maintain even a modicum of self-discipline.

    If anything, this will weed out the dedicated students from the lackadaisical ones. If you work hard enough, your GPA will be fine in the end.

  167. ieatsalad

    Ontario union calls for ban on Israeli professors

    Thats a hoax??

    How?

    Someone please explain.

  168. ieatsalad

    Please someone respond. I’m so confused. If this is real, then why aren’t we talking about this?

  169. Ken

    Because that is not related to the strike issue

  170. Pally Wally

    it doesn’t have anything to do with the strike?

  171. Pally Wally

    e:f;b

  172. students are zero

    @ Aaron –

    Although I am dreading the amount of stress I’ll have to endure if we do go back, it is completely unfair for us to have to “learn” under these circumstances. It wouldn’t really weed out the lazy students – thats silly. Who signed up for all of this self-discipline you speak of – I have other important things in my life besides school, so this whole cream rising to the top notion you speak of is absurd. Our year has been compromised beyond belief – I don’t give a shit about earning my credits and moving on. I paid my tuition for a service – a learning environment conducive to actually retaining information, not cramming and doing things for the credit. Caring about your GPA is great but my GPA is not what I pay tuition for.

  173. Leo

    Are you kidding me?

    How is it not strike related?

    Just because this issue doesn’t predict when we will be back in school, and how much time we’re going to have to study for exams doesn’t mean it’s irrelevant.

    It’s about CUPE. It’s about our University, and the possible employment of ridiculous ideologies that will have an effect on all of us.

  174. Aaron

    @students are zero

    You speak as if we’ll have a schedule akin to med school when we go back. We were all given instructions to complete the assigned work, and so we really have no excuse not to have done so. University entails a certain amount of personal responsibility, and I don’t think even a two month strike is justification for a poor work ethic.

    I’m no CUPE apologist. I wholeheartedly despise CUPE 3903 and their ideological extremism. I’m simply saying that some personal accountability is in order in times like these.

    Is it unfair that we lost time to be in class and receive instruction? Of course. Will it be harder for us than for students at universities that didn’t go on strike this year? Absolutely. That isn’t an excuse to quit, though. You don’t just acquiesce to your circumstances.

    These circumstances aren’t even close to being dire enough for that.

  175. Aaron

    Maybe I was a little bit harsh. I don’t want to come across as some cold hearted conservative because I’m no such thing.

    I just find it to be a defeatist attitude when I see students talking as if it’s a foregone conclusion that their marks will be poor, and that nothing good can now come of the school year.

  176. Pally Wally

    Leo,
    It is not that it is irrelevant, but it is irrelevant to the issues of the strike.

    Maybe you’re seeing something I’m not?

  177. students are zero

    @Aaron.

    You say “Will it be harder for us than for students at universities that didn’t go on strike this year? Absolutely. That isn’t an excuse to quit, though. You don’t just acquiesce to your circumstances.”

    I resent that. Your completely missing my point. I’m not of the opinion that stuff is going get tough so let’s just call off the year because I am lazy. The problem is that I am not paying to complete my degree and get on with it. I’ve paid to learn in relatively normal circumstances – that normalcy is long gone. What does med school have to do with anything? – I’m not getting what I paid for

    tuition = learning (relatively) as promised

    its beyond the tipping now for me.

  178. Delicia

    Imagine if somebody had told u that u had 13 days to complete 25 days of work – after a 2month gap of free time – what would be your response? Then not to mention exams immediately after with no study time. Not to mention that u still pay full price for half time.

    SO IF THIS WAS A CHOICE
    Firstly i would ask if this was serious or a joke. Then i would consider if i would be setting myself up do worse than i would normally do given TIME.
    Secondly it seems like i would be blatantly picking daylight robbery or digging my own rave.

    Lastly it would look like my degree is compromised and compressed even if, say, my dean deems that it hasn’t. It will be if there is a pass fail option.

    Dunno about u – but before this strike – GPA was the most important thing to many people – thats why people put in the effort to begin with – made the sacrifice to study now and not get the first job that comes along. That’s why we go to university – to better our education in hopes of better careers. To be the best that we can be – so we have an advantage and choices when it comes to how we make a living. People have put their sweat and blood to pay for a proper education.

    So lets not forget that. Every one has their own reason and agenda’s to continue or end the strike. Either way we lose as students – and so do TA’s if they are students too.

    The problem now is not to end the strike and start school – honestly its too late. To continue school now AND achieve grades we should earn-whilst upholding academic integrity is impossible.

    But to have the year wasted – is a waste of the our time, money and youth. It will set everyone back a year. Rob People of a ear of their life.

    Therefore- where does that leave us? Nowhere. hat the reality.

    What they can offer us is options. The should ask the students if we want to go back or not – a vote. Since we represent the largest group affected by the strike. So even if the Union and York come to an agreement – then – it should be OUr choice whether we want to continue a damaged year – or not continue at all. If we do not get re-reimbursed – then 50,000 people have been simply robbed.

    These are simply my opinions – I dont intend to upset anybody or insult anybody else

    Most of all I’M tired of waiting for a response. I’m tired of waiting for York or the Union to dictate my future. It has been 2 months with false hope. There is only so may times York can “cry wolf”.

    After a while – i dont trust anybody or anything. I need fail safe options – i need worst case scenarios.. I need possibilities- not to be kept in the dark . york has released no real info since the 18th Dec. Ok if there is nothing to report – then state so. But questions can not be dodged in the hopes that school will start soon – when? When Pigs fly perhaps? So far even that is aa closer approximation to nothing at all!

    I am an international student. I have to fly back to Canada! I don’t want to fly back – wait for 3 weeks and be told the year has ended. YOrk – money doesn’t grow on trees. Since i’m paying triple that of the regular tuition – in a way i have a lot more to loose. I’m not asking for answers – i know that there are none – But i am Asking for Options. What are my options if school starts or doesn’t start – regardless of any date

    So when people talk about transferring – to some that may sound ridiculous – but for me its a very real option. People follow pattern – they tend to think what happened in the past will happen in the future. The last strike happened for 11 weeks. So – that to me seems like an option – yet York can not admit that – this might be a possibility.

    Sorry to rant and rave. But its beyond the point of anger now. Its to the point of lack of trust and simply wanting out.

  179. students are zero

    *tipping point . It’s not that you came off harsh its more so the fact that you missed my point –

  180. Delicia

    Sorry for the terrible spelling – lol. And once again – this is simply my opinion – don’t intend to insult anybody

  181. students are zero

    @ delicia

    not sure if you were directing that at me, but I do care about my GPA as do most students. All I’m saying is that us students pay large amounts of money and the service “promised” to us is completely compromised. What are we paying for??? – A high GPA?? not me, although everyone wants one, I think academic integrity is far more important. Therefore scrap the year now, and repay us students – ill take next year in credits as long as there is not another strike.

  182. Yorkie

    @ students are zero

    I can see what you’re getting at. I do share that same mind se in a way. Well, I can certainly tell you that we wouldn’t be paying for a higher GPA, that’s for sure. Hard work will only get you so far before you totally break down. This isn’t what we paid for, it’s entirely true. In order to lean something, retain it for the future, you need time and a work firendly environment. Without those, the lessons learned will slip down the drain and be of no use to anyone.

  183. Yorkie

    * mind set

  184. Yorkie

    * friendly

    ugh, damn typos

  185. Delicia

    lol

    @ students are zero

    NO – lol was not directing that to u. I agree High GPA isnt the main issue . But i meant yo say that the whole semster will be comprimised – and will be mostly easliy reflected in grades. thats all . But yes scrap the year and give me my money back Lol They have wasted my time – the least I can get back is the money – all $ 15000 thanks. lol.

    I fought with my parents to leave home and go abroad and study – and now look – lol. Oh well. i don’t blame the Union. But i would like some options – that at least, is York’s responsibility to the students – since the cant or wont give us answers

  186. theowne

    Okay, in NO WAY do I want the year scrapped…and I don’t know what you guys are thinking. Yes, it’s bad that we have to study harder and cram, but scrap the year is BETTER!?!? We only have a limited time on this planet people, why the heck do you want to waste a whole year like that?

  187. Aaron

    @students are zero

    I understand that the normalcy has been disrupted, but that’s only temporarily so. First and foremost, Professors are likely to modify the syllabus of each course to better accommodate students. Two of my Professors already told this to us just prior to the strike.

    We’ll be able to adapt. I’m not in university solely for a degree either. I’m just saying that this is not an insoluble situation.

  188. Delicia

    just wondering if the term can be completed in 13 days – why stop there. lets do winter in say… oooohh about 30 – or any number i randomly think of. Then the year is over – nothing wasted

    In fact,We should cram everything -every year- for years to come lol. Since apparently this isn’t breaking academic integrity or fairness to students -according to york and york Senate.

    My point – i don’t see why we have to compromise – but nobody else is willing to – for the last 2 months. just food for thought – if the Senate thinks every students – in every faculty is capable of doing the best they can in 13 days – then why not practice what they preach – take their own medicine do this for the future?

    Because its a means to ends – a compromise. its easier to sacrifice our time – that rightfully give us back our money.

  189. Delicia

    Honestly i don’t wan to scrap the year – but I’ve been left no choice – i have no more money to keep forking out. I cant keep paying for res – when I’m not going to school. I cant keep flying back and forth to Canada – at the Senates beck and call.

    Ur right – loosing the year is a waste of time – which i can never get back. But right now – if i get compensated and my money back. then work – gain experience now and earn money – i can come back in September and complete the semester properly – without compromise -to my future degree.

    So this seems a little far fetched – but so does cramming 25 days of work – group presentations/ assignments and tests into under two weeks

  190. students are zero

    @Aaron

    Yes it isn’t an insoluble situation, but the principle is simple – were getting ripped off and screwed out of what we payed for. that’s the bare bones of it, and that simple fact is enough for me to want to bail on the year.

    @ Delicia

    your totally correct

  191. Delicia

    maybe a if we started o the 5th – like we could have- then i might not have felt this way. Now its after the 5th – does that meant he 13 day schedule – gets reduced. Do you see my point

    Suddenly its how low can u go? I mean – i’m waiting for the point where the senate will be like – ok 5 days of school and 5 exams days – lol. Sounds stupid – and over exaggerated -but if i told u on Nov 6th – this would last till Jan the 6th minimum – u would have laughed. lol

    Maybe if york gave us some info – i would stop speculating – but like i said – Im gonna make up my own options till they give me some. Ive been sitting doing nothing for too long. Oh – and not nothing – homework. there is only so much i can teach myself – i didn’t pay to teach myself.

    Its not my fault that there is a strike -all i’m saying is dunno why I should pay for it.

  192. yorkstrike2008

    I agree Delicia,

    We did not pay for a ‘compressed’ and ‘reduced’ education. I believe that the University should refund some of our tuition for this.

    However, this is highly unlikely.

  193. Yorkie

    Well that explains the fake last night, lol.

  194. Svenn

    Hi guys, even if the tuition balance on our york financial statements online says its due by January 10, we can ignore that because the registrar is going to modify those dates? We wouldn’t be penalized for this in anyway??

    I don’t wanna pay my remaining balance when classes hasn’t even resumed, let alone the winter semester!! They should change the deadline when we resume the winter semester, once we finish our fall exams

  195. fracas

    maria dimarco, get your story straight – the star reports that this situation (group of men who ran away, gun thrown away, one man charged) happened at a driftwood community centre. not at york, no mention of the man being a 3903 member, no mention of undergrads as targets.

    either this is an utterly reprehensible attempt at tarnishing cupe 3903 members as violent criminals, or a completely idiocy on your part to spread a story that is so wrong and so scary.

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