Breaking News: York U, union ready to negotiate

Both sides aim to end two-month staff strike before winter semester starts Monday
December 31, 2008


STAFF REPORTER
 

After weeks of standoff and stalled classes, the new year may offer hope for York University students.

Graham Potts, a chief negotiator for Local 3903 of the Canadian Union of Public Employees, said the union representing York’s graduate students, contract faculty and teaching assistants should be able to iron out a deal with the school’s bargaining team when they resume negotiations at the bargaining table on Saturday.

“We’re cautiously optimistic that they have decided to modify a number of their positions and take the concessions off the table,” he said.

This is the first time during the strike that the school has asked to return to the bargaining table, Potts said.

The mediator has informed the union the university will return with an offer in the ballpark of previous agreements signed by both parties.

“Our bargaining position is an 11 per cent increase over two years. Their latest offer was slightly less than 10 per cent over three years, which is well below the total wages compensation that we have agreed to in the past,” he said.

The employees are fighting for improved job security, higher wages and a two-year contract that would give the union more power at the bargaining table.

Disgruntled students have been out of classes since Nov. 6.

It will take 13 days of classes in the new year to make up for the 18 lost days from the fall. This will allow the same number of classes overall as would have been held over 11 weeks, rather than the usual 12.

If a deal is not reached on Saturday, classes will be stalled past the expected start date of Monday.

“They have decide to cut four days out of the (winter) term as well as take out reading week,” said Potts. “I’m also a PhD student who stands to lose from this mess.”

Alex Bilyk, a spokesperson for the university, said the mediator wanted to both groups at the table on Friday, but the union requested an extra day.

Bilyk said the university has a set budget and the economic meltdown is not making things easier.

“We would rather have a negotiated settlement at the table,” he said.

“The whole objective is to get the 50,000 undergraduate students back to class as soon as possible.”

Nayha Jehangir, 21, a third-year visual arts student, said while those strike days were wasted, she still had to pay for food and rent. “I will be happy to get out of the routine of being home all the time.”

The international student said she will feel robbed of a proper education if the university compresses the semester.

“That sounds like `here is your compressed, compromised degree,'”.

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395 Comments

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395 responses to “Breaking News: York U, union ready to negotiate

  1. Mouse

    So… I was wondering. If we go back to school Jan.5th, will the half year classes that are supposed to start in winter start right when we go back, or will they start after we are done making up fall classes?
    Anyone know?
    Thanks 😀

  2. Mike Oxbig

    well what are the chances of there being school next week or monday? is this actually promising?

  3. tester

    we will not be in class during the week of the 5th. This Potts clown is full of crap and is an evil man.

    Plus, they actually have to agree to an settlement, and then have it voted on. We are probably looking at the week of the 12th at best. I expect the parties to get closer during this round of talks, but it will not settle everything. then the university will put out the forced ratification which will end the strike, or be the beginning of the end.

    Really, everyone on strike should be terminated and replaced. There are other qualified candidates out there, while this groups of strikers are selfish and greedy, and have screwed over 50,0000.

    I am okay with loosing my school year, knowing some of them will loose their jobs and homes and cars because of not having income. I can live with that.

  4. lol Tester said it best.

  5. Andrew

    Thing is, we know the school is going to bring basically the same offer with a few extra’s. So unless the union is willing to come down on them, not much is going to be done.

  6. angry student

    I just think its ridiculous that its taken THIS long for another sit down. This is putting so many of us at a disadvantage….I agree with tester, terminate and replace. Its gone too far already.

  7. YS

    why do i got a feeling that no deal will be made again? hmmm…

  8. Commuter

    We can make this into an episode of Deal or No Deal. Just replace Howie with the mediator, the Banker with the York Administration, and the contestant with Graham Potts.

  9. Yorkie

    Lol nice one Commuter, that’s exactly what this situaton is like. So, how many people actually have faith in this next round of negociations? As far as things have been going, York is not one to change their offer by any significant amount. So if negociations is the solution, the union will have to be making the changes, but this can only go on for so long… What do you people think?

  10. Flying J

    I want to know what CUPE doll thinks will happen. He’s the smartest guy on this site. We await your response CUPE doll…

  11. Laura

    Breaking News? This was announced two days ago on tons of websites before this one.

  12. RR

    I think this is somewhat of a PR stunt on part of the university to be honest- I cannot see them actually changing very much of their offer, same with the union. I think the university is doing this to make it look more fitting for when they implement forced ratification- which I think will be mid next week or the week after. They have played the media game to a tee, this will be the icing on the cake.

  13. B

    “If a deal is not reached on Saturday, classes will be stalled past the expected start date of Monday.”

    …um, when was there ever an expectation that classes would resume on Monday?

    That article is a PR stunt with zero credibility.

  14. B

    “The whole objective is to get the 50,000 undergraduate students back to class as soon as possible.”

    Two months later, still no classes. Good to see that this objective is high on their list.

    I agree with RR, this is step one of a forced ratification plan. Introduce it at the table and when the BT doesn’t go for it. Bypass them and leave it directly up to 3903 members. Question is, will 3903 members take it this time around?

  15. Angry Dray

    Hi, all. Would you believe me if I told you that the comments in this Toronto Star article attributed to Graham Potts are a complete fabrication of the Toronto Star, and that CUPE has contacted the Star to have it removed, but that they still have not yet complied?

    No, of course you could not believe this, cause you think the Toronto Star would never be that unprofessional, just like the Administration would never completely outright lie to students about what’s happening during this strike. Graham Potts is, after all, an evil man — York’s administration is no way responsible for the length of this strike.

    Right?

  16. Commuter

    Found this on the RedFlagDeals discussion topic about the strike:

    “After several weeks of silence, there has been an announcement today (Dec. 30) that the two sides in the strike will be meeting on January 3. We can only hope that they are prepared to do some intense work at that point and come to an agreement in the following week. If they do, then the earliest we could likely expect a final, ratified agreement would be Jan. 7th or 8th. Since the rules for a resumption of classes state that there must be at least 24 hours between a final settlement and the first class meetings, our first class would on the following Thursday, January 15.

    If an agreement is reached in the first week of January – I am taking the most optimistic view possible here – it would mean that the earliest the winter term could end (and the summer term begin) would be around the middle of May. This scenario means eliminating reading week, shortening the numbers of ‘remediation’ days taught from the first term, as well as shorter mid term and final exam periods. In the best-case scenario, classes would be finished somewhere around the end of April.

    So, party on for now but start doing your “intellectual pushups” after Jan 1. If this does happen it will happen quickly and you will need all your strength and focus to complete the academic marathon race that the second is going to become.” (Prof. Dalton Kehoe)

  17. Abû Mûsâ Al-Ḥabashî

    Clarification: Prof. Dalton Kehoe teaches his class on Thursdays so that’s why he mentions a gap of one whole week for his class resuming, if a final, ratified agreement is reached by January 7 or 8.

  18. JingJang

    So remind me again on what basis are those best-paid-in-Canada real-world-avoiders striking? Oh right: they have no clue what hardships the rest of the world is facing. Unions exist to serve the best interests of their leadership, not their membership. Once again, students, teachers and the taxpaying public are being fleeced.

  19. Cupe Doll

    Well, the above post (@Commuter) is extremely optimistic. Seems to assume those driving the strike on the 3903 side have some interest to settle.

    Here’s how I expect it plays out. Just my opinion, of courss — an opinion based on knowing my loco 3903 local.

    First, on January 3rd, York makes its final offers. Warns dire consequences if its final offers get rejected. Then the 3903 executive, bargaining team and others have themselves a victory celebration. Since this is exactly what they’ve been waiting for. For York to get desperate when the school year is just about lost. Not just ruined — totally lost. Their entire game plan was to keep the strike going long enough to get to this stage — and then a little longer until York capitulates.

    Then, at the January 8th GMM, the regular membership will get treated to at very least 4 hours’ intense exhortations. We’ll get told how desperate York finally is — how it’s about to capitulate complete victory to us. We’ll get told how our strike has invigorated YUFA radical elements to demand the impossible during their bargaining rounds later in 2009. And we’ll get told how cutting-edge important our struggle is to the entire labour movement. You know — our glorious struggle against “neo-liberalism”, “labour casualization” and so forth.

    Anyway. Most of us regular membership won’t manage sticking around nearly that long. By the time voting rolls around, those left will be near unanimous in favour rejecting York’s final offers.

    By that point — after January 8th — I’ve really got no clue what York can do any more. It will be too late by then to notify forced ratification.

    York might wind up having no positive options — and precious few negative options but capitulation to my loco local. Unless students come out in force. Or unless more general 3903 membership petition for a special GMM to impeach the entire executive (as was tried not long before the strike — only 50 signatures needed). Won’t happen — but it really should. Like, who gave anyone in 3903 mandate to ask the impossible and refuse to bargain realistically? Nobody. Our strike vote was to enable us to realistically bargain better for our membership. But instead our loco local ruins everything in sight going crusading after ideological “neo-liberalism” that doesn’t even exist.

    That’s not incompetence. It’s almost criminal negligence.

    If it goes the way I think it will and York won’t just capitulate, then many of us in 3903 won’t lose our jobs next year. We’ll lose our jobs this year. And students will get thoroughly shafted.

  20. Flying J

    @CUPE doll
    Thanks. Looks like we have both ends of the spectrum as far as predictions are concerned. As far as “students coming out in force”, what do you mean by that? Where would we go? Please elaborate…

  21. clennis

    “Anyway. Most of us regular membership won’t manage sticking around nearly that long. By the time voting rolls around, those left will be near unanimous in favour rejecting York’s final offers.”

    what’s so pressing that you (and the ‘regular’ – as opposed to ‘radical’, presumably – members) couldn’t stick around for?
    radicals have more time on their hands?
    whereas you only have time to spend online harming undergraduates through a deliberate campaign of misinformation that keeps students out of classes?
    i must be missing something.
    maybe you could show up at the end of the meeting, and not listen to the arguments people make – you’ve already drawn your conclusions:
    ‘down with unit 2 job security!’
    ‘$659/month is too much for unit 3s!’
    ‘who needs health benefits (we’re all gonna die anyway)!?’

  22. clennis

    you ‘regular’ members are really letting the students down…

  23. Rex

    “We’ll lose our jobs this year. And students will get thoroughly shafted.” – Well put Doll.

    “Really, everyone on strike should be terminated and replaced. There are other qualified candidates out there, while this groups of strikers are selfish and greedy, and have screwed over 50,0000.”-Tester

    “I am okay with loosing my school year, knowing some of them will loose their jobs and homes and cars because of not having income. I can live with that.” -Tester

  24. Andrew

    I got to agree with Clennis on this. You keep telling us students to make a move, to show up in force, but you can’t be bothered to do it yourself? We call that hypocritical. This is the very same thing you accuse students of doing. “Students all want school back, but they don’t want to show effort for it.” Yet the people in CUPE, who want this strike over with, can’t be bothered to stay at a 4 hour GMM? Lectures are 3 hours, and we can sit through that boring crap every week, surely the great CUPE can sit through an extra hour till voting. You’re not working, what could you possibly have to do besides be at a GMM meeting? Picketing? Well you guys haven’t done that well either.

    Here is an idea, how about as soon as the meeting starts, some of you “regular members” turn radical, and call on the vote quickly. No waiting 4 hours, get to the damn point you are there for and vote. I’m sure you will get support from a lot of people who really don’t want to sit there for 4 hours either. Hound them for it, chant for it. Fucking hell, FIGHT FOR IT. You want students to fight against the admin and CUPE, when really if you regular people would grow a pair, this could have been done weeks ago.

    Regular members laziness = my school year lost

  25. yorkstrike2008

    They would have to reach an agreement on Saturday. They are not talking today or tomorrow..

    Not going to happen for the 5th…

  26. Andrew

    Yeah the 5th is out. People need to look more into the 10th – 15th as a possible start time.

  27. Jen

    Clean my room, do the wash, spend some time with friends, and then I’m back to homework-land.

    Hopefully I’ll have everything finished in the next five days.

    I’m excited for school to start up again, when ever that happens to be.

    I’m just worried that it’s going to give me some kind of anxiety attack or horrifying rush of nervousness, because I’m used to being out of school with little to no pressure for so long.

  28. I say that we should start our own student union, and also go on strike, who the hell they think we are?! They treat us like lab animals, manipulate and hope we will co-operate, I say we show them that they woke up a sleeping dragon, we should demand lower tuition, better education, and I say we should drop this year, and get the credits for the selected classes for this year!

  29. Andrew

    @ HA3AP

    You can’t drop classes and expect credits. I have 2 3.0 classes I haven’t started yet and will in the winter semester, but why should I get credit for them? Service wasn’t given to me, it never even started, so I shouldn’t be getting credit for it.

    A student union would never work for the simple fact that the people are always changing, going in and out. The group in this year will not be the same next year. And I don’t want to be in a Union and have radical students making claims for me. Because the thing is, students tend to get a little radical, and my fear would be that they would walk out because of fees and all that, and costing me time.

    Plus the demands are pointless. Better education? What do you want? I hate when people say better education because it is so vague. I say I get a damn good education, sure a little more here and there would be nice, but I think it is good. So right there we have an issue because we disagree on better education. I also disagree on tuition fees, but that is mostly me not giving a damn because this is my last year, and if fees are lowered, I’ll never see a refund of it.

    The thing is, I myself as a student, do not want other students talking for me, or making demands for me. Because seeing the type of activists at York already, 95% of them I’ll think are idiots and have no idea what they are talking about to begin with.

    Plus, just to come back to better education and lower fees. This is always what got me when students went to government with these two things. PICK ONE! You are not getting two things. You are not getting a 5 star hotel for the cost of a Holiday Inn. You want something better yet want it for less. Do we not see an issue here?

    A lot of problems in this world can be solved or rather removed from people’s minds if we all just used a little more common sense.

  30. @Andrew

    To further elaborate my thoughts I’ll start with an example of a better education, first would be less students per class ratio, in my last year economics class there were 500 students, and considering that 90% of the prof. that I had don’t “educate you” all they did was read powerpoint off the board, which I can do myself just by reading the book, and when you consider this and a class of 500 students, its next to impossible to get a decent education, prof. should be hand picked and evaluated by the University on a yearly basis, there should be a monitoring system of their performance, other wise we would be getting those who slack off, which is a major part from my experience. After this point is clear, that is why I am saying to lower tuition, since Im paying huge amount of money for my education, I want to get back what I pay for. If they cannot provide the services promised, they should re valuate the tuition fees. These are my thoughts in short form. Now regarding that you dont want others to think for you, thats why you get a voice, everyone can express their thoughts, I’m sure you agree with the fact that we vote for our government, and don’t just tell them to elect the representatives by them selves.

  31. Rocco

    If this strike goes on past January, we will all be given the pass-fail option for our courses.

    Although we have lost our education, we would in no way be losing the credits that we have paid for.

    It’s a lose-win, but at least it won’t be a lose-lose.

  32. B

    Angry Dray – nope. wouldn’t believe you. When Christina Rousseau retracted comments that were published in The Star, 3903 was quick to bring that up. If Potts comments are indeed a fabrication, why haven’t 3903 drawn attention to that?

    Also, if you read some of the comments closely, along with other comments on the earlier publication of this article, you would realize that most people find this article to be PR bullshit on the part of the Union AND the Admin.

    The Toronto Star is unprofessional??? WOW. That’s a shocker. I’ve always assumed the Toronto Star to be a bastion of journalistic integrity and honesty…and people never lie, cheat, steal or kill.

  33. Andrew

    @ HA3AP

    Economics is probably one of those classes. All my 4th year classes are less then 30 people. People have said for years we want a better student/teacher ratio, but the problem is, you need to find teachers to teach it, and maybe start limiting the number of people in the class.
    People don’t seem to realize that smaller class sizes means either a) more money the school has to spend or b) less students overall. Let’s just say as an example we have 100 students in 1 class. So our two options are to split or remove students. So split them into 10 classes. You now need to hire 9 new teachers, and pay for 9 new classrooms (hydro, heat, etc). Education I guess is better, but now money is needed to cover all these extra’s classes and teachers. I use 10:1 ratio because I know people in a 30:1 class who complain.
    The other option is maybe starting to limit the amount of people allowed into classes. In English, basically all 4th year classes are 30 or less students. A 500 4th year seems like an oddity. In all my years taking upper year classes, I have never had over 50 people.
    As far as evaluating profs, well again, here is more money that will need to be spent. You can’t go by student evaluations because if you get a group that thinks a prof is not fair, and a group that thinks he is, how do you judge. I have one prof who I think is an great teacher, I’m learning a lot, yet some people think he’s terrible. So you would need someone on York’s side going in every class to look at these teachers. That is a huge task. They do get evaluated, but not what I think you’re looking for. This is an age old debate. Students will always think they are paying too much and not getting enough back. To each their own on it. Is it expensive? Yeah it is? Is the school’s 100% great, no school is. But a lot of it has to do with what you take and where you go. Going to a school with 50,000 students doesn’t scream to me small class sizes. Even more so in some fields that are not widely taken.
    And to be honest, maybe the school doesn’t have to revaluate anything. Maybe students should evaluate what schools they go to. Everyone wants to go to the big schools and wants amazing world class teachers and low class sizes. That isn’t reality. If you do not like how you are being taught or what is being taught, you have the option to move schools. I did and it worked out for the better.

    As for as “my voice” the issue I have is probably the same as the CUPE regulars. The radicals run the show because they are the ones willing to sit through meetings upon meetings and rallying and this and that. As I have said, I accept what I pay and what I get. I’m probably a minority. So having a union of people who I don’t agree with and who will go on strike and put me out, well, I don’t wan any part of it.

  34. ahhhh

    Hello,

    I just wanted to know if anyone knows for sure that we will NOT start on the 5th. The article makes it sound pretty promising that we will start on time for the new year. If that is the case, I have a lot of work to do this weekend! I just hope that we will begin the 2nd week into school.

    Can someone who has been following the strike closely realistically tell me (and others who are in my situation) if it is going to start on the 5th or the week of the 5th??

    THANK YOU! Happy new year everyone!

  35. Andrew

    No we are not starting on the 5th. Considering they are only meeting on the 3rd, plus they have to put it to vote, you are looking at least at 1-2 weeks.

  36. D

    @ahhhh

    No one has a crystal ball, no one can tell you for sure.

    People like yourself quite frankly annoy me. We have seen this since the beginning, “OMG Is School starting soon??? I have homework to finish!!! Oh I hope the strike continues for just a little longer!!” And if the strike goes till January 20th, I am sure we will see “OMG, Is schooll starting soon… Oh please let the strike end in February… just an extra week is all I need!!!”

    You have had an enormous amount of time since the strike began to do your work. Sit down, finish it up, and if the strike goes longer it is out of the way and you can stop worrying.

  37. @D

    how sure are you that school will start 1-2 weeks after Jan. 5?

  38. Jason

    The agreement would have to be “ratified” on the 3rd for classes to resume on monday, so we wont start on the fifth. However, if they did come to an agreement on saturday, they could hold a Gmm on Monday to ratify the agreement, ” vote on it”, if it is passed, then classes would resume Tuesday or Wednesday at the very earliest.

  39. Kathy

    As much as I want to see classes resume on Monday, I hope it doesn’t mean giving into the union’s crazy demands.

  40. Dreamer

    I saw in my dream a few nights ago, that the school was going to reopen on February 9th…:D

  41. Dreamer

    I saw in my dream a few nights ago, that the school was going to reopen on February 9th…:D

  42. Commuter

    @ D

    I agree. But my mind keeps playing those games with me too (“oh I need a couple more days”), as once I finish one thing there’s always something else to do, and my ambition to get everything done (I mean future work, not stuff that was already supposed to be done) is a bit unrealistic.

    I’ve done everything for the fall term (even some of my readings twice since it’s been so long) and I’ve moved on to some exam reviews and a little bit of reading for January.

    But there’s no such thing as “no homework” until the year is done. 🙂

  43. Basil El-Salviti

    I’m 100% fed up with 3903 picketing on this forum. This forum pisses me off to death, why? Because idiots on here, who I KNOW are getting paid to scare students, keep feeding us false information.

    Scrapping the school year? Get out of here. That’s the dumbest shit idea I’ve ever heard. I’ve had enough to hear with this crap. Don’t you get it? If York is complaining that it can’t possibly pay up to the union, how could they possibly pay the STUDENTs????!?! 300,000,000 as a settlement to the students, as though the university can pay us up like that. Get real guys, think logically.

    We’ll be back in class, hopefully in January. If not, certainly February. That’s that.

  44. Cupe Doll

    @clennis: “you ‘regular’ members are really letting the students down…”

    Somewhat true. Thing is, we’re at York to teach — not get all radical and ideological fighting against “neo-liberalism” or against you radicals.

    @clennis: “what’s so pressing that you (and the ‘regular’ – as opposed to ‘radical’, presumably – members) couldn’t stick around for? radicals have more time on their hands?”

    Yes. When it comes to radical 3903 activism, radicals have way more time. Since that’s what they live and came to York for in the first place. Seems like after they can hold a fork, radicals enroll in 3903 to strike at York. But us regular members? Are you kidding? What’s this loco 3903 local got to do with anything? We’re at York to teach — not go crusading against ideological delusions.

    Once in a blue moon more regular membership gets up and out in arms. Like when maybe 800 of us came out and forced the executive to actually let the bargaining team try bargaining. Even though it was too late already — since we in 3903 had kept bragging about asking the impossible and refusing to bargain. But that was a one time thing. Enough regular membership coming out to outvote the radicals only happens in a blue moon. As when you radicals get arrogant enough to boast your “neo-liberalism” fighting agenda too overtly. Most of the time, though, you radicals totally deny your agenda. You hide it in obvious plain sight. What — 3903 doesn’t demand anything impossible (ignore them banners proclaiming that we do). Oh, no — it’s York’s fault. York’s demanding concessions. Yeah — that’s it. And 3903 doesn’t refuse to bargain (never mind how much general membership had to come out to get our bargaining team even pretending to bargain). Oh, no — it’s York’s fault. York’s stonewalling us again.

    Is there anyone still in doubt about our radical anti-bargaining agenda? Does anyone still not know? Just in case — let’s have it out. We in 3903 are not striking for our own membership. We are striking against “labour casualization” everywhere. And because York is our enemy “neo-liberal” employer, we must defeat and make York capitulate. We do this for the whole labour movement — not for our piddling general membership. That’s why, to defeat York, we only pretend to bargain. Because, if we pretend long enough without getting called on it by our own general membership — only then can we defeat York. When the school year doesn’t just get academically ruined — but is in real jeopardy of being completely lost.

    That’s our radical 3903 agenda. To waste everyone’s time, money and education until York has to capitulate. And it just might work. We in 3903 just might get every impossible thing our radicals demand. But the cost is *NOT* acceptable. The damages are *NOT* acceptable. Not acceptable to students, to parents, to the many 3903 unit2 members who will lose their jobs — and not acceptable in terms of sheer destruction to York’s reputation.

    Chances are York will not capitulate to this loco local. It can’t afford to. So what will York do, then? No clue. All I know is there will be pain, there will be suffering, there will be more labour casualties. But that’s alright with you radicals, isn’t it? Our 3903 labour casualties will only justify your fight against “labour casualization”.

    Who gave the radicals in 3903 mandate to ask the impossible and refuse to bargain realistically? Nobody. Our strike vote was to enable 3903 to realistically bargain better for our membership. But instead our loco local goes crusading against ideological “neo-liberalism” that doesn’t even exist.

    @clennis: “..you only have time to spend online harming undergraduates through a deliberate campaign of misinformation that keeps students out of classes? i must be missing something…”

    Nope. You’re not fooling anyone, clennis. It isn’t me getting strike-paid to keep you from revealing what our loco local’s agenda is. Right? I’m not chasing after you. I only reply to you when you address me directly. Otherwise, I never address you. But you, on the other hand? Do you ever post anything not addressed to me?

    Don’t get me wrong. I couldn’t care less about you getting strike paid to e-picket here. That’s between you and your conscience. Nor do I care that you snipe at every comment I post. That just provides more opportunities for me to out what you 3903 radicals are like. I don’t even care if you report sniping at me as working 20 hours/week alt duty. Go ahead — get your weekly $200 from sniping at me.

    Let’s just get one thing straight. I’m not the one posting here to harm and misinform students. You are. I’m here for students — and you’re only here to stop me.

    Matter of fact, I’m a bit flattered how you chase after me. Snipe at every one of my posts. Means I’ve got you radicals worried enough to spend alt strike pay on. Lol. I should get strike paid to *stop* posting. But that’s a joke. Unlike yours, my conscience wouldn’t allow taking one penny for the way we in 3903 are shafting students.

  45. theowne

    Okay, I don’t want to sound ungrateful, but we get your point, CUPE Doll. Thanks for sharing this, but how many times do you have to copy-and-paste this same neo-liberal rant over and over…..I get the point..

  46. Cupe Doll

    @all: here’s the latest I’ve heard. York is about to make some final offers. And we in 3903 figure this means York is getting desperate. But not desperate enough to capitulate. So we plan to drag our feet until it becomes too late. Until York either capitulates or loses the year.

    This isn’t big news — but confirms my 8:38 prediction above. Shouldn’t surprise anyone. Dragging our feet is fully consistent with making our earlier impossible demands and with when we refused to bargain.

    Time’s getting short. I’ll post whatever I hear.

  47. Cupe Doll

    @theowne: you’re right. Apologies. That was really just a response to clennis and I shouldn’t be wasting everyone’s time with that.

  48. D

    @cupe doll

    Insightful posts Cupe Doll. Keep them up. While you do repeat the neo-liberalism a bit, I do find it refreshing and interesting to read. Such passion 🙂

  49. Cupe Doll

    @D: Thx. But I won’t be responding to e-picketers any more. They waste my time and yours. From now on it’s just whatever useful info I hear.

  50. ahhhh

    Hey!

    Thanks Andrew,D , Jason, and Commuter for the response to my question.

    @D:
    I HAVE been doing my work. But there are some other work that I have to accomplish because most of my courses are year courses. I don’t feel it so right for you to be so rude about it. I feel that this site is created for people who are concerned to find out information and for those who know to share. I used to follow the strike, but I stopped because I had other things I had to attend to. I am not here to complain and try to annoy people like you (like you say I do). I said one sentence and that was it so stop being annoyed. Either way, thank you for responding.

    @CUPEdoll & many other that take time in following the strike closely and posting up your knowledge on the strike:
    Thank you! Also, CUPEdoll, do you think – from your assumptions that we will go back to school for the week of the 5th? I am stuck in a dilemma because one of my professors ask us to hand in a research paper the first class back, but the senate specifically posted that all assignments will only be due after having at least one class MEET. What do you think I should do? Should I just be prepared to hand in my paper for the date my professor asked for? Should I prepare it for the week of the 5th? I was also a bit confused when you said that you feel that York is desperate and that CUPE will try to drag on for as much as they can so they can get as much out of the strike. I am neutral. I understand where both sides are coming from and what their needs and wants are. But What does your statement mean? Sorry if I don’t explain myself well. I am not a great writer. But thank you or anyone else that response in advance!

    Happy New Year!!!!

  51. Teju

    Hello people I am international student. I look for answer to this strike I hear it over on 5th okay Nice. Okay cupe doll sir can you plz explain why when exactly sir? I dnt get it, so where are these two parties now? Is union people far a part from york people? Are they going to get back together?

  52. dsd

    Got a question here. What if University gives us a pass-fail option. Who, in their right mind, would choose fail?

  53. Cupe Doll

    @ahhhh

    Sorry, can’t speak for what your prof might expect. Thing is — even your own prof might not be able to tell you what s/he expects right now. Why not? Because everything academic totally depends how long the 3903 strike continues.

    That’s why some here might get annoyed when you ask about your assignments. Since there’s no point asking before anyone knows how and when the strike ends. If and whatever will be left this academic year to even go back to.

    Keep checking this forum for strike news — there’s nowhere better for that. But don’t bother asking about assignments at this point. Hell — it would make more sense asking if you’ll ever see your prof again. Seriously. I know some contract faculty already looking for work. More secure work. Work secure enough to take care of their families. Meaning: not at York.

  54. j

    @ dsd

    You don’t get to choose whether you pass or fail… what that option means is that you can choose to receive your letter (percentage) grade OR choose to simply “pass” the course — or fail, if you’ve failed it.

    All this does is not show a letter grade, so you could have passed with a C or an A – it just won’t show up on your transcript or count towards your GPA.

    I think the reason they give us this option is because the strike has gone on so long that changes are going to be made to the original syllabus’ (syllabi? haha) of your courses. So say if you received a bad grade on the first assignment of the year, and were expecting to ace the second assignment to boost your grade – if they drop the second assignment your left with simply the grade from the first …. in which case you would probably chose the “pass/fail” option, so it doesn’t mess with your GPA.

  55. Andrew

    Breaking News!! Cupe doll dodged another question!

    Oh wait, that isn’t breaking news, that’s every day. My mistake.

  56. B

    What happened to critical, somewhat insightful comments on this blog?

    This personal attack business is mundane and immature.

  57. @ Andrew

    If you’re so astute and well informed, then you answer the dodged question. We should be thankful that Cupe Doll is taking time to inform us at least a little more fully and more quickly than the media, and York website.

  58. Cupe Doll

    @Andrew?

    What’s up? Have you got issues with me particularly — or are you just spewing? If you’ve got any legitimate issue, why not let me know? I have no desire to dodge your questions.

  59. D

    @Andrew
    What exactly did cupe doll dodge o.O

    @B
    I’m not sure we are reading the same forum, but it hasn’t really changed much…

  60. Cincinnatus C.

    @ Cupe Doll, on “feet-dragging”: I suspect you’ve been reading the same e-mail messages I have about that. If so, they don’t warrant any claims about what “we” plan to do. They’re coming from a few individuals. There is no way of knowing at this point how influential they will be.

    I don’t support this strike either (and am not getting strike pay for posting this or for doing anything else!), but I agree with those who have said your alarmism is not helpful.

  61. wondering

    @ Cupedoll,

    I was wondering if this is true, my TA emailed all of us a few days ago stating that your demands have come down to 4% over 2 years now. If this is true, do you think York Admin would agree to this and get all the students back into the classroom soon!

  62. Andrew

    My issue with you CUPE is I think you have no idea in what you’re talking about and you rely so much on copy and pasted answers that you never really answer any questions. I also think you’re a hypocrite, telling us students that we have to protest and fight for our education, yet you regular CUPE members can’t even bother to sit through a 4 hour meeting in order to vote on this deal to fight for your job, thus allowing these “radicals” to win.

    Someone said, do radicals have more time and your answer was “Yes. When it comes to radical 3903 activism, radicals have way more time.” Seriously, just answer the fucking question that was asked. The only person who seems to have some agenda of ideology around here is you. You can’t go a post without bringing these radicals in or this other heavily worded bullshit. It was a simple question. Both regular and radical members are not working, thus they have the same time on their hands, yet more radicals are finding the time to show up. If you would have at least told me “I stayed home to watch the Hockey game” then I would have at least had some respect for that answer. Because all your answer tells me is, you don’t care about your job. I’m not asking you to be radical, but I hope at least you would have a little fight in you, and not just roll over and die after the first punch.

    So answer the question. Why are regular members not showing up to these meetings?

    I don’t want your neo-liberalism fight bullshit or your radical act BS either. I remember reading somewhere that there are more members wanting this to be over then radicals. I believe you said it yourself that there is maybe 300-500 “radicals” left. In a Union of 3000, it needs to be asked “WTF is up?” Are you guys just a bunch of lazy fucks? Because that is the impression you are giving me and many others when of 2500 people, more then 500 can’t be bothered to show up to a vote.

    Surely something as simple as a 4 hour meeting is worth staying at, even if you have to listen to the bullshit for hours, especially when your job is on the line and your pay. Hell I sit through 3 hour mind numbing lectures, and sure it sucks beyond anything, but I do it without much trouble.

  63. Cupe Doll

    @Cincinnatus C.: “I suspect you’ve been reading the same e-mail messages I have about that… They’re coming from a few individuals.”

    Nope. My info and sources have got nothing to do with “reading e-mail messages” from “a few individuals”. And I hope you can appreciate I will not reveal my sources. Since what you don’t know can’t hurt them. But thanks for confirming what you heard re dragging feet.

    As for you caricaturing my efforts for students and against our loco 3903 strike as “alarmist”? Most student feedback on the info/analysis I bring has been positive. To the point, even, when I decided to stop posting, students were asking my perspective. That’s why I started posting again.

    If students ask I’ll stop posting right away. This is their forum. I’ll even stop posting if a few 3903 members pretend to be undergraduate students and ask me to stop. So long the 3903 members pretend being undergrads well enough to fool me. But I certainly won’t stop posting whenever self-declared 3903 members ask.

    It’s not that I totally don’t care what 3903 members honestly think. But I care far more what students think. They’re the ones most damaged by this ideological strike of ours. And, on top of that, I can’t really trust 3903 members to be honest. Like, ok, I believe you aren’t getting strike-paid posting here — but I’m not so sure you “don’t support this strike either”. Having a hard time believing that.

    If you’d like to know why I have a hard time believing you don’t support the strike, let’s discuss it privately. E-mail me @ cupe3903doll@yahoo.ca. Let’s not waste any more time&space here. This forum should be for info useful to students — not for pro/anti strike 3903 squabbling.

  64. york student

    @ cupe doll, thanks for the support and info, and this may be a dumb question but what exactly do u mean when u say ” re dragging feet”?

  65. Woot

    Cupe Doll, please do keep us informed!

    We already lost Cupe Member with Child, it would be a shame for us to lose you too! !

  66. Cupe Doll

    @Andrew.

    Wow. Ok. Fair enough. Your question’s legitimate. But hard to answer. Tell you what. If you want a longer answer complete with some practical examples, then ask. I think exposing everything inside 3903 is legitimate now — and potentially useful for students.

    But unless you ask for the longer answer, I’ll just give you my short and harsh answer.

    Are regular 3903 membership gutless? Yes — especially unit2s. (People will really hate on me saying this — but if it’s a matter of answering “yes” or “no”.. then yes.)

    Am I a hypocrite? Should I be doing more than flapping my fingers? Yes. Will I do more than flap? Haven’t decided yet. I’ve talked to my family about it and we decided that my informing, assisting with critical thinking and encouraging is fully consistent with being a “valued educator”. However, me doing much more hasn’t been ruled out.

    I just can’t do much more lightly. Because if I out myself and it doesn’t work then the hatred directed at me will be such I won’t ever be able to work at York again. Still — even that might be worth it.

    Should I do more? Not sure. I have no desire to go down fighting for undergrads if you won’t even stand up for yourselves. And I have no desire to go down fighting for unit2s if they remain too gutless to fight for themselves. There are ways, though, for me to get more serious balls rolling even without outing myself. Should I? Don’t know. Just posting here is taking more time than I’ve got.

    If I were to go all out — would you help? Andrew?

  67. j

    @ Jon

    I’m not positive about this – but I remember reading somewhere that it is up to the professor to allow the pass/fail option. So you might not be able to do it in all courses.

    In any case, you should wait to see how the syllabus is changed in your course before considering that option.

  68. Cupe Doll

    @Woot: thx 🙂

    @york student: check my 6:42 post

  69. @cupe doll:

    you shouldn’t care about everyone else when deciding how you want to act. it’s your decision. plus, you’re defending yourself against someone behind a screen…like you really care about what he/she thinks?

  70. clennis

    i’m going to try to get my hands on the email that Graham Potts sent to the Toronto Star, and was later misquoted from.
    but even then, i worry that it will be written off by anti-unionists, whose opinions about the labour movement were formed long ago.
    looking forward to a reasonable offer from the administration, and looking forward to voting for it even more (in case any of you are out there, wages and health benefits agreed upon in 2005 and unit 2 job security would be a hell of a late Christmas present).

    @cupe doll:
    and i’m flattered that you never answer any of my questions. but, that being said, you’ve made your point and i apologize for trying to force some dialogue and concrete position out of you.
    i do so because nobody else so deliberately or with so much zeal misrepresents the union’s position, and claims to do so with authority.

  71. Basil El-Salviti

    Undergrads can’t do much because, unfortunately, we haven’t got much clout behind us. The only people that could honestly do ANYTHING are those who will be meeting tomorrow.

    I’m thinking of transferring. The little guy at York apparently can’t do jack shit…so I’ll go somewhere that actually values me as an undergraduate student.

  72. Andrew

    @ CUPE Doll

    See that answer I can at least respect. Simple and easy answer without all the flowers and frills. That has been the biggest thing, and it isn’t personal, it is more of me wanting a straight answer rather then a bunch of shit to dig through.

    I can see your point. Basically it could or could not be in other words “career suicide”. Again though, it is all in how you word things. You can start a movement without being hated, but you just need to use the correct terms and have a goal that people can get behind. If you got a good group behind you backing you up, then you really can’t be a target.

    Would I help? I’m not the one you need to be asking. Not to BS you myself, but after this year, me and the academic life are going to be far apart. I don’t want to work in it or be around it. So helping you is kind of pointless since I will not have any involvement with post secondary schools past April. The people you need help from are those on the sidelines who need to get in the game. Those Unit 2’s you speak of need to get off the bench. I think you can understand that after 6 years of post secondary school and 3 different schools/cities, I am tired. And I think I have every right to say, I just want my paper and get on with my life. I value what I have learned and want to put it into use, but I personally feel I have come to a point where (besides one class I am talking this year) University has nothing left to offer me. I have been fighting my way through schools for the last 6 years, and to be perfectly honest, I am tired of it. It is why I don’t want to get my masters or go any farther in schools.

    It isn’t that I don’t care, because I care a great deal, but after 6 years of being basically screwed around with the system, the only thing I want to do now is milk the system for what I can still get out of it, and then leave it be. I have stopped caring about how much my school costs, or how many people are in my classes and to some extent my marks. What matters to me now is all what I can learn and skills I can still develop, and when I look at the return on investment for me fighting and going up against unions and universities, it isn’t worth it anymore. At least not for me.

    Is that selfish of me? Probably to some it is. I can live with that though.

    Not to sound like an old man, but you would probably be better off finding younger students who are energetic about it and have a passion for it. People who love to protest for something. People who will have to live through this past this year. Because honestly, CUPE gets 9%, 11%, 50%, I really don’t care, because I will be long gone.

    As I said, I’m not going to BS you. I’ll just give it to you straight.

  73. york student

    i wonder where cupe with child and york strike 2008 went.

  74. Jon

    @ j

    Thanks for the info. I’m hoping that my profs allow me to pass my courses. I have been given a full-time job next month and I can’t do both work and school. I applied in October and was supposed to be done school by December. I won’t turn down the position…

  75. Pally Wally

    Here’s a list of faculty who signed a petition to end the strike.
    http://yorkisus.org/research/yufa-anti-cupe.html

  76. Kathy

    Re Pally Wally

    Good for them. Hilarious though that it’s CUPE (or whatever CUPE-sympathising fifth columnists run “YorkisUs”) publicising the list, as if these professors have done something heinous.

  77. Andrew Toms

    I would like to add my name to that faculty list. Andrew S. Toms (Mathematics and Statistics).

  78. F-Ed Up

    regarding that YorkIsUs thing (which I find disturbing – and I’m talking about that gift card, not the petition):

    I think that we (the undergrad students) should make similar gift cards to give out… i.e. “You get to lie awake every night fretting over whether to drop out and take full-time work until next year, or sit around checking yorkstrike2008 all day with as many digits crossed as physically possible, OR both, AND you get to try to justify your choices to continue your education to your big ol’ construction-working family over and over again at ever single family function this holiday season!” lol

  79. F-Ed Up

    re: YorkIsUs thing (which I find disturbing – and I’m talking about that gift card, not the petition):

    I think that we (the undergrad students) should make similar gift cards to give out… i.e. “You get to lie awake every night fretting over whether to drop out and take full-time work until next year, or sit around checking yorkstrike2008 all day with as many digits crossed as physically possible, OR both, AND you get to try to justify your choices to continue your education to your big ol’ construction-working family over and over again at ever single family function this holiday season!” lol

  80. B

    @Basil El-Salviti – when you find the institution that actually cares about undergrads, will you let the rest of us know? It’s probably akin to finding the holy grail.

  81. SARA

    u guys is it true that in 2010 most of the universities in ontario will have a strike as well..and is it true that in this year’s February UofT and Guelph will also have a strike..cuz im really thinking of transfering but i have been hearing all these rumors about future strikes happening in the other universities as well

  82. J-Lynn

    Cupe Doll:

    I just discovered this website and although I haven’t read all of your messages, I would like to say that you’ve hit the nail on the head. I would like to reiterate your call for all CUPE 3903 members to attend the next GMM and get out there and VOTE. If there’s a forced ratification vote, then people need to vote in that too. I think the best way to approach this situation without damaging anyone’s careers is to get this message out. You and I need to vocalize this, as do others. It is time for the membership to take back (or over?) CUPE 3903. Yes, the majority of us are here to complete our degrees and do our work and therefore many of us have chosen to avoid the union as much as possible. However, that is what has gotten us to this point. The radicalization of this union is insane and should not be tolerated.

  83. Mike Oxbig

    hey guys…i just got out of a coma…we’ve been on strike for two months???

  84. Hey guys,
    what do you guys think will happen at the negotiation table tomorrow?
    They have not even discussed the length of the contract in previous negotiations. Even if they agree on everything else , the 2 year vs. 3 year contract would be a major issue?
    What are your thoughts on that?

  85. Cupe Doll

    @kavisolo: “.. you’re defending yourself against someone behind a screen…like you really care about what he/she thinks?”

    Lol. Sometimes. Not personally. But when a student — like Andrew — asks hard questions, I’d like to at least try answering. That’s some of what I’m here for. On the other hand, when someone I long since concluded is just picking, nagging and e-picketing.. then no, not so much. For example \/ \/:

    @clennis… Sorry, there’s nothing left to say after my 6:20 post to you. Try addressing yourself not to me. Surely many others here would be delighted conversing with you.

    @Andrew. I hear you. But so many are tired too. Or feeling totally powerless. Hopefully this mess will just blow over into a story we’ll tell our grandkids. But if it really winds up looking like the academic year will be lost — not just academically ruined — then I hope students will be prepared to stand up a little bit. Just enough to help save the year.

    If nobody’s willing to stand up — and I don’t just mean students — then too bad. I don’t plan fighting for anyone not prepared to stand and fight for themselves.

    By the way — I’m not trying to be mysterious. If you’d like to know what I believe can be done, just ask. I’ve mentioned some of it before.

  86. Teju

    Why you not answered me? Is this strike over I hear people, I wants more information on this i like see where union people are and york people? What are the chances?

  87. gee

    What I believe can be done, is we can all hope. We know York will not let us lose our year. We know Cupe is setting up for a provincial wide strike in 2010 (not just universities by the way). We know that in the end, the undergrads are no ones priority.

    I was told I would be back in school the week of Jan 15. I was told to expect exams the first week in February. I was told this before christmas. Wether or not you believe it, wether or not it’s true, I have been reading and doing homework, and it felt fantastic.
    I am making me a priority. I’m back on track so that no matter what day we go back in, I will be prepared.

    think about it. The last strike went 11 weeks. did anyone lose their year? Their money?

    Thank you all for your updates and I truly look forward to tomorrow!!

  88. HBK

    There’s not much of a year to save anymore. While going back is something that the majority of students dearly want, with exams right around the corner and a compressed schedule, every student will suffer the consequences of this strike academically (and financially). Plus we’re coming off of two months of slacking off (or working for some); our marks will suffer even more. Of course, CUPE members have necessities that the university hasn’t met, and the university certainly can’t just dish away millions of dollars, but 50000 students are York’s crutch. Two months have been wasted; will York attempt to give reparations, or just tell us, ‘it’s life deal with it’? The latter, I believe.

    “A university is what a college becomes when the faculty loses interest in students.”
    – John Ciardi (1916-1986)

    A fitting statement…

  89. Alex

    Teju: If you’ve been following the blog posts at all, then you would know that the strike is not yet over. Negotiations are taking place tomorrow…If they react an agreement, I believe it will still take a few days to a week before we are back in class…that is the best scenario. Others are predicting we won’t be back until Jan 15 at the soonest. Nobody knows for sure yet.

  90. Mike Oxbig

    lol @ cupe doll

    now i just had to say something…you just said…

    “If nobody’s willing to stand up — and I don’t just mean students — then too bad. I don’t plan fighting for anyone not prepared to stand and fight for themselves”

    what a neo-liberal, capitalist, fend for yourself, only the strong survive, darwinist comment to make…

  91. Mike Oxbig

    it just shows how pervasive neo-liberal thought actually is…

    it’s so attractive to human’s…that it’s fruit is just so tempting to stray away from…

    even the most hardcore leftists can’t resist it’s bittersweet touch…

    oh baby…

  92. j eff

    you all just love hearing yourselves speculate.

    none of you know anything.

    especially cupedull.

  93. @SARA,

    U of T’s TAs voted “yes” on a recent strike mandate vote, and it’s possible that they will strike this coming term — although by just having the mandate the union has won some conciliations regarding maternity/paternity leave. Further negotiations will be starting this month, although I don’t know when.

    The thing to remember if you’re thinking of transferring, though, is that U of T never shuts down for TA strikes; classes always continue.

  94. tester

    CupeDoll…you said..
    “If nobody’s willing to stand up — and I don’t just mean students — then too bad. I don’t plan fighting for anyone not prepared to stand and fight for themselves”

    I am willing to stand up, but in a way that does not benefit CUPE….I rather my school year go down in flames with your jobs. As I said earlier, the financial distress that $200/week puts on CUPE members (and their families) mitigates my suffering…..and the thought of CUPE3903 members starving, missing rent, loosing their cars and homes and their academic year honestly makes me smile. It is the gravy.

    I’ve already been screwed, so now I want your whole membership to get screwed too. Not just the radical members who have got us to this point, but also the general members who watched it get this far.

    BUT I do understand the logic in your post….you should not have stand up for those who will not stand with you. I just wanted to add I will not stand with CUPE3903.

  95. Teju

    replyed @ gee
    I like you, I think you know what you say and it is nice that I agree with what you saided

  96. Teju

    I also think it is wrong for york faculty people to take money from us then scarp the year. I dnt like them and theirs attitudes. Money crazy people. I am a hard working student who love education and hopefully york and union get back together and everything goes okay

  97. I just watched “The Perfect Storm”. I’m chucking it all in for fishing.

  98. B

    …only to vanish at sea?

  99. Artem

    @Gee… sounds reasonable. Can’t wait until we hear about negotiations tomorrow.

  100. MaBa

    Im so sad that I decided to transfer to York in september 😦 LOL Im going on vacation screw it

  101. Mike Oxbig

    during this strike…i’ve become a professional marble player

  102. Worried

    Does anyone know when their meeting is today? I am really anxious to see how it turns out. Any thoughts?

  103. Daniel

    Hey so I’m a bit confused about everything if they do reach some sort of an agreement then are we going back on Monday or would we have a grace period or time that they need to orginize everything back to normal.?

    Also, what time will we have new news and updates about the talks today?

  104. Woot

    Keep us posted Cupe Doll!

  105. Maria

    what time does the meeting take place?

    will we know the result of it right away or in a few days?

  106. The students should start demanding remediation in our benefit, like noncumulative exams or optional exams

  107. caitron

    the meeting is at 10:00 a.m. today… don’t know when we’ll know the result though.

  108. Commuter

    We should know how the meeting went later today or tomorrow.

    But I anticipate this being settled (if it is settled) over a period of several meetings plus 2 days needed for the members to vote on an agreement, followed by 1 day’s notice of resumption of classes.

  109. Marj

    I certainly hope there will be reimbursement of some sort for unused books, meal plans etc etc…..

    How can you cram 2008-2009 year into something less than expected..I don’t want to be cheated out of any of the learning process in my field and yet I do get the feeling everything will be crammed and jammed together and I am pissed.

  110. Mahrek

    the strike is one thing, keeping us all in the dark is another, there should be hourly updates on the situation including when the meeting times are and when the results will be instead of just hoping theyll post something within 3 days and always checking this site. if the situation is solved which i dont think it will be how is it fair to post that schools back on in 24 hours after being off for two months, i think it will take a little more than 24 hours to reach all 50 zillion students. burn york burn.

  111. york student

    i really hope we find something out today or I am gonna have an anxiety attack. I hate not knowing what is going on.

  112. Yorkie

    @j eff

    It all may be speculation, however speculation from the right sources such as Cupe Doll are very insightful. Keep it up Cupe Doll!!!

    So everyone thinks that we’ll end up waiting a few days before we know any results? Any other information about when we might be back or refunds?

  113. dsd

    @Mahrek
    That’s the main problem I have with this strike too. And to think that we pay money to both of these sides….

  114. Mr.X

    Hey has anyone noticed on their York financial account online that the remaining tuition balance for the winter term is due by Jan 10??

    Shouldn’t that deadline change, since we’re not gonna begin the winter term right when we get back?? Classes might not even resume by Jan 10 as well! They should modify the date once we get back to classes right because I don’t wanna pay for the courses that will not start on time, let alone any class in general throughout the full academic year.

  115. Andrew

    It is funny reading news reports, as they are blasting CUPE mostly. Some of the great quotes from these articles are like “Does CUPE not understand we are in a recession?” or about their fight for labour “It’s an admirable goal, but there is a time and place for it, and now is not the time.”

    I know CUPE Doll you said you didn’t want to cause shit and have your fellow workers hate you, but if this goes on much longer, York will be the only place you’ll get a job, as no other University is going to want to higher a former 3903 member.

  116. Andrew

    @ Mr. X

    Yes, they are changing a bunch of dates for everything, so I wouldn’t bother look at dates online and thinking they are correct. They are just waiting till this ends so they can decide on the next dates. No point in posting a new date every week.

  117. Guess Who

    So it’s 3 P.M. Any news on the meeting?

    I still think we’re not getting back to university before Jan 15th.

  118. Mordred

    there too busy too update us on the meeting, with the complimentary breakfasts at the holiday inn and all

  119. Maria

    when will they post updates on the meetings?

    enough already.. i want to go back to school.

  120. MR Two

    I’m back at my former dilemma, book in this week for work or not… working another week covers winter term’s schoolbooks… I wish we had more frequent updates, this really blows.

  121. Commuter

    @ MR Two

    Well, the way I see it, the earliest day we could be back is sometime later this week (ie. Thursday) but that is assuming this is speedily resolved, which I have my doubts about.

  122. R

    @MRTwo,

    If I were you, I would work next week. The earliest we will back to school is probably the week of Jan 12th, but again – this is a very optimistic prediction. A more realistic prediction would be beginning February or mid February. Early March however is a rather pessimistic prediction.

  123. Mike Oxbig

    this should be the motto for both parties…

    You’ve gotta fight, fight, for your right, right, to paaaaaaaarrrrrtaaayyyyyyy!!!!!!!!

    dum dum dum dum dum…fiiight…fight…right..right…………..paaaaaaaarrrrrtaaayyyyyyy!!!!!!!!

  124. The Man With The Plan

    is it just me, or any one else doesn’t wanna go back at the moment?

  125. B

    Two months wasn’t enough there?

  126. york student

    @The man with the plan
    i dun really wanna go back either but that is just my lazyness talking, also I am a little afraid of what is going to happen when we return to school

  127. gee

    If I could go back Monday I would jump at the chance! Bad enough I’m spending my Saturday sitting by the computer waiting for word on some silly meeting that I have no control over.

    Going to be a long day!

  128. Delicia

    S o

    I have read everything that people have posted so far. I go to Schulich – and have be “re -insured” by our dean that our degree and the academic year will NOT be compromised.

    Well its too late for words – my degree has been comprimised – any cramming or “compression” is a poor excuse for trying to finish all the content in the ridiculous time given.

    Its not about reading or doing homework now. If that be the case – I can continue like that for the next 2 years thanks -just email me my exams – no need for profs and ironically TA’s either.

    A lot of my grades depend on group work and presentations -some courses about 40% – as it is the nature of the course. How does one ” compress group work”? If not will that part be cut out and turned into a pass fail exam? In which point defeats the whole point of the course. Lol

    York is so certain and reassured that we will get back to school soon – yet there are no fail safe plans.
    E.g. – if we go back to school after the 5th – which I think most will agree is the case.

    I want some honest information. Frankly i don’t want to start school anymore – its simply unjust and unfair to cram at this point. I dont care about York’s excuses. I sympathize with the Union – but at the end of the day – what is the plan of action? What happens next. Everyone can speculate and guess – but I need a worst case scenario. So i can plan for better or worse. Im not asking for what WILL happen – but what MIGHT – i have the right to know my options – before im backed into a corner i can’t get out off. TIME is of the essence. It may not be for York -it is for me

    Uncertainty for a huge organization like York is embarrassing. Imagine if this was an airport. I know that it is not – but the concept of a huge organisation still applies. Somebody mentioned TTC were on strike. The TTC were back to work days later – not months. YORK should plan for whatever day that we go back to school – even if it is just a worst case scenario. I want info for the 5th, 12th, 15th – or whatever the case may be. I want to know if summer semester still exists – or IF winter will be pushed into summer semester.

    I am an international student. I need to know not to satisfy my curiosity – but to book a plane ticket – or to leave York all together and stop wasting my time.

    Lack of information and empty promises have abolished all trust in York . The least they could do is offer us options. Answers on refunds. On dates of possible school days. On GPA status. Of exactly IF and HOW grades are affected.

    Why – because it has reached the point where 50000 people have run out of patience, time and money.

    If the school year is canceled – what happens? Don’t tell me that its impossible – or out of the question. As far as im concerned – its growing more and more into a likely possibility. Being kept in the dark doesn’t help one bit. Its too late to beat around the bush. I want an answer -or my 15 000 dollars back thanks.

    Otherwise I have been robbed of not only my money – but my TIME and Future. Unfortunately it is that serious and that white and black. I know this is happening to everyone – and more the reason for answers – options and a little truth please.

  129. j eff

    i’ll want to go back when York admits that they screwed up royally, drastically reduce my course work load, give myself and everyone else an automatic pass, refund my course tuition/meal plan/textbook fees, apologize for wasting a year of my life, and give me a letter of recommendation to another university. When that happens, yes, i will want to go back and actually care about the work i have to do.

  130. Jason

    @ gee, we are not going back monday, even if they reach a deal today, it still has to be ratified, senate said it would of had to be ratified today for classes to resume on monday. So the earliest, is Tuesday.

  131. gee

    @Jason

    I do understand them time table of what is going on.
    The comment was made because “the man with the plan” said he doesn’t want to go back.
    I was just trying to express how thrilled I will be to go back in. (which will hopefully be Jan 12)

  132. jan

    I don’t want to go back, because this ridiculous strike has forced me to procrastinate. I don’t particularly feel like writing 15 page papers if I’m not even sure if they are going to be taken off of the course syllabus. I can’t do my readings because I dont know which ones will no longer be on my exams. I can’t even tell work what hours I can do this coming week because I don’t know when school starts!

    I’m frustrated to no end.

  133. Smarty Pants

    I must admit…I am quite disappointed that they wasted my life…

  134. Commuter

    The only reason why I’m not looking forward to going back is a fear of what the compressed agenda will be like over the next 5 months, and how much they will cram in over a shorter period of time, especially during the winter term.

  135. I fear the cramming that I may have to endure upon returning. Yikes…

  136. ARSENAL

    I just hope that talks won’t break off like last time…I think we’ll know the results of the negotiations mid-afternoon tomorrow (or possibly even in the evening)

  137. Andrew

    Seriously, it isn’t going to be that bad. You do the last two weeks of class, most likely some teachers will give the option to drop some things. Then when the winter semester starts, it is basically like normal except no week break. I really couldn’t care about a week off anyway after two months off.

    You guys also need to stop expecting up to the minute updates. There is not a person sitting there with a laptop ready to update the second the meeting is over.

  138. The Man With The Plan

    Yeah, that is my biggest fear as well. I really don’t want to have a panic attack due to the amount of work that is going to be crammed in, because of York’s fuck ups…

  139. Mordred

    from andrew: There is not a person sitting there with a laptop ready to update the second the meeting is over.

    why the hell not?

  140. Elizabeth

    I’m assuming that since we haven’t heard anything yet that there’s zero chance of school on Monday. Does anyone know what sort of money we’d get back if we decide not to go back at all?

  141. Graham potts

    Once this is done Im going back to my hometown in saskatoon, to chew on some hay, and ponder what damage I have caused 50 000 york students

  142. Graham potts

    okay boys

  143. Fred

    Any news yet?

  144. zack

    i still haven’t enrolled in my winter courses yet… should i do it.. i’m just scared the profs will crame evrything on us!!

  145. the suspense is killing me!!!

  146. wow

    @vino
    hahahaha, same here.

  147. Mike Oxbig

    my advice to people in fear…cut out a class or two in your winter term if you can…and take it in the summer….

  148. anyone here taking humanities first year…9 credit course…that course alone has about 30 items to read including books

  149. The Man With The Plan

    I think it is pretty safe to say that the strike has ended. Here are my reasons why:
    1. This meeting has been the longest so far that the hasn’t been suspended.
    2. They 2 sides are probably finalizing the deal.
    3. The 2 sides are probably having talks on how and when they should go about getting back to classes.

  150. Mr.X

    @ Andrew

    Yes I understand, so if nothing is resolved by then, we could just ignore the Jan 10 deadline without any additional penalties, am I correct? Thanks b!

  151. Soraya

    The last meeting went longer, we didn’t hear anything until late the next day. Don’t give people false hope.

  152. B

    None of your three points validate the end of the strike.

    The strike will be over when an announcement is made.

    Last time they talked, it was two days before things were suspended again. This one has only been a few hours.

    No deal can be finalized without a ratification vote. If 3903 members accept it, then it’s final.

    The Senate decides return to classes.

  153. The Man With The Plan

    No… the last meeting did not go longer.. it was suspended after 15 min…

  154. Commuter

    @ The Man With The Plan

    No, the last talks lasted two days before being suspended. This hasn’t even been 12 hours. And it wasn’t till about 11pm on the first night of talks that we heard they would be continuing the next day (before things broke off).

  155. B

    You might want to brush up before making such points then. There was a meeting after that first initial called off in 15mins one.

  156. Commuter

    @ The Man With The Plan

    You’re thinking of the mid-November meeting. True, that one only lasted 15 minutes. We’re talking about the November 29th-ish meeting that lasted for 2 days.

  157. CanCan

    Is the meeting… STILL going right now?
    Wow… hopefully HOPEFULLY we’ll get an update by tonight.

  158. The Man With The Plan

    I will bet any one that the strike will be over by the end of this meeting. if any one is willing to bet me $10 they better be the man of their word and transfer me money through paypal 🙂 LOL

  159. flushafleshfarm

    @planman

    not even close to good enough evidence to arrive at your conclusion.

  160. B

    Why are you people finding hope in the length of the meeting?

    There is nothing significant there. The last two meetings should attest to that.

  161. B

    For a man with a plan…you’re fairly clueless.

  162. Mike Oxbig

    look’s like the man with the plan’s favourite pudding flavour is time

  163. Commuter

    @ CanCan

    CUPE’s website indicates this meeting is scheduled from 9:30am – 11pm today AND tomorrow.

    It’s at the Holiday Inn Express-Uptown.

  164. Commuter

    This is also very interesting. Some students are planning on teaching classes themselves.

    I will post the link below.

  165. The Man With The Plan

    @Mike

    Its not only one, You people just don’t know about the rest 🙂

  166. john patterson

    its official cupe 3903 just stated classes will return on january 20th

  167. Guess Who

    If length of the meetings is anything to go by, then we should have been in class a month ago.

    Stop spewing false opinions.

  168. CanCan

    Thanks Commuter for letting me know… so many people throwing in so many information lol.

    So we’ll get an update tomorrow then?

  169. Yushky

    I think the Strike will end soon, perhaps a deal may even be finalized by tomorrow evening, however I find it highly unlikely that we would be back in classes this week…next monday at the earliest I’d say. At the very least, I hope we get an update on how things are going by the end of today.

  170. The Man With The Plan

    There is no such thing as a false opinion…

  171. Mike Oxbig

    you know why my name is Mike Oxbig?

    …because Mike Oxbig…

  172. Dale

    @Commuter… interesting find. I can only find that information on the 3903strike.ca website (the calendar at the side)… is there any other source verifying that they are meeting again tomorrow?

  173. Mike Oxbig

    they are still probably hammering out the conditions for these negotiations…

    hammering away at sticking points such as:

    if we make a move you don’t like…you can’t go to the media with it and complain…

  174. CanCan

    Agreeeeeed Yushky.
    All I ask for is an update… AAAAAH… Hate this uncertainty.

  175. The Man With The Plan

    Irrelevant to the discussions that are going on, but i appreciate your input, i guess…

  176. Commuter

    @ Dale

    That’s where I got it from, that calendar.

    And I’m sure that the two sides agreed to meet both days this weekend if they need to.

    Of course:
    1) The meeting might not necessarily be that long (14 hours).
    2) Might not be both days, or could be even more days.

  177. The Man With The Plan

    I bet they are having some pizza and stuff hehe. Oh man, i think i will get some pizza after some outdoor shinny hockey. If any one cares to join me and my friends, we will be located at the Trinity ice hockey arena around 8 or 9.

  178. YES

    finally!!!! we are bak!! yipeee

  179. Mike Oxbig

    what are the chances of this strike ending today or tomorrow?

    they hadn’t met in one whole month…what progress could have been made in a time when they did not meet?

    and their gonna come up with a deal over these two days?

    by that alone…there probably won’t be school this week…

  180. Yushky

    If they can agree on everything outstanding in only 2 days then why weren’t they negotiating before now….I bet it takes more than this weekend for sure…they were apparently still very far apart the last time they met…

  181. bored and pissed off

    @The Man With The Plan
    Hope you’re right but I doubt it… There’s no reason to say the two sides are finalizing the deal. Also, I think it’s not within the competence of the bargaining team to decide when to go back to class (I think the Senate does that).

  182. Commuter

    Unless somebody sprinkled some pixie dust over both sides, I can’t see the strike being resolved today.

    You don’t go from not speaking to someone for an entire month, with hostile feelings from both sides, to kissing and making up on one January afternoon.

    Granted, I could be wrong, but I’m just calling it how I see it.

  183. Mike Oxbig

    lol…even worse Yushkevich…if they can agree in these two days…why the heck did this strike go on this long…

    there is no way it ends…it’s all political now…

    they are slowly going to come to an agreement in time for next week…so it’s not too sudden…so people can’t say why not earlier?

  184. Guess Who

    There’s no way they can end everything in 2 days and call it a happy story.

    They’re still miles apart in terms of the negotiations. So to say that within two days they could reach a suitable offer for both sides, seal the deal and be done with it is very far fetched.

    IF these talks go to the gutter again, but at the same time both the sides have budged a bit. Then we can safely assume that the strike can end soon. If the current talks go to the gutter without either side budging, then we’re back to square one.

  185. juliette

    correct me if im wrong but if a deal isnt reached by say 6 am tomorrow then we wont be back monday because we were guaranteed 24 hours notice.

  186. Yushky

    exactly…here’s hoping, but realistically no way in hell it’s setteled out of the blue.

  187. Commuter

    @ Yushky

    It would look very bad if they settled this over the weekend, having not met for a month.

    If such an imminent settlement was possible, why didn’t they meet before the holidays (or if they needed this month to come closer together, why didn’t they meet earlier this week)?

    Either way, it’s a lose-lose for both sides in terms of PR.

  188. Mr.X

    @ The Man With the Plan

    Sounds like a great plan you got there, I like Hawaiian Pizza! hehe and turtles

  189. Soraya

    When is the last possible day the strike can go until before we lose the year?

  190. Yushky

    haha absolutely…I can’t wait to hear or read what is said by the “losing” side to the media when it’s all said and done

  191. CanCan

    @ Soraya

    I’ve heard previously that it was 12 weeks… aka 3 months… that makes it February 6th

  192. CanCan

    But correct me if I’m wrong!

  193. MR Two

    Ok, I’m booked for work this week, w/e.

  194. Pingback: Top Posts « WordPress.com

  195. The Man With The Plan

    @ Mr.X

    Yes! Hawaiian It is! One of the greatest toppings made. Cheers!

  196. hey guys, if they strike ends today and classes resume on, lets say, Tuesday, what will be a likely time for exams. Are they going to give us two weeks to study for exams?…because that will definitely suck!…i got real stupid over the two month break.

  197. j

    @ Soraya & CanCan

    I read somewhere the cut off was 85 days.

    I don’t know if those days count weekends though? I’m assuming not, which would take us to March 1st.

  198. D

    I dont believe there is any set “date” before the semester is cancel. The University will jump hoops, buy class room space at UoT and Ryerson, shorten the semester as low as humanly possible, before they cancel it. But February 6th, would be a worrisome date for the unviersity.

    A lost year would literally destroy York. There would be a mass exodus. As moderately nice school would become a a ghost town over night.

  199. D

    @vino, they will give you as little time as possible. Get cracking on those books.

  200. j

    wait — March 4th. counting on a calendar is harder than you would think, haha.

    hopefully that correction is useless though and we will be back in class WELL before.

  201. Commuter

    @ D & Vino

    Technically yes; there will be 2.5 weeks of makeup classes before exams whenever we go back. So exams won’t be happening right away (unless you didn’t finish mid-terms or tests from before).

    But there won’t be any break time or a study day in between the end of classes and the start of exams.

    Which would seriously suck if, say, one of your classes finished on a Wednesday and you had an exam on it the very next day!!

  202. j

    @ vino

    when we get back we make up 11 days of classes and then we have a 12 day exam period.

  203. Commuter

    @ j

    A strike won’t last into March. If worse comes to worse and they don’t settle on their own, the government will have to step in by February. There really isn’t another option.

  204. Commuter

    @ j

    That would be 13 days, not 11.

  205. Yorkie

    Pretty much the longest the strike could go on til is mid Februrary, the 17th I think when Legislation comes back.

  206. nellyli

    holy…Please someone tells me what the heck is going on with today’s meeting…

  207. someone told me that they watched on the news that the strike ENDED YO. can anyone verify? ive looked everywhere and found nothing..

  208. Soraya

    WTF!! I just looked at CP24 and the star and i didnt see anything about the strike ending…

  209. D

    in before the panic that will ensue from that comment!

  210. york student

    i don’t think that the strike would be declared over until the union has ratified the agreement (if an agreement is reached) cause the union members can always reject the tentative agreement and we would be back to sqaure one.

  211. i duno i heard that they reached a decision but i cant seem to verify the statement

  212. i meant i cant seem to find info that would verify the statement

  213. york student

    where did u hear this? was it a reliable source?

  214. Mike Oxbig

    cp24 didn’t report anything new just now

  215. Cupe Doll

    @all: Sorry, not much to report yet. Here’s an e-mail update that floated into 3903 inboxes. And remember that this only updates from our 3903 bargaining team. Whatever outcome to this bargaining round, it has to go to our executive for better spinning, belling, whistling and packaging. Very difficult predicting how info will finally get staged for general membership (dis?)approval. How the info will be construed. So anyhow, here’s a recent update — just don’t ask me what it means.

    CUPE 3903 NEGOTIATIONS UPDATE JANUARY 3rd 1:00 PM

    The employer took time to caucus which meant that we did not meet with the mediator until 10:30 in the morning. He stated that there should
    be an immense effort on both parties sides to resolve the dispute over the weekend, because of the pressures created by the January 5th
    semester resumption.

    Most notably, we have seen some movement on fund increases. The Employer claims they have made increases of $275,200 which is significantly higher than previous positions, and they also claim that catch-up has now been resolved for many funds. The chart below illustrates the increases they have now made, our estimates for
    catch-up, and the current demands that are on the table.

    While there have been increases in remuneration for Teaching Stream Appointments to $70,000 (as opposed to $60,000) and a decrease in course load from 4.0 to 3.5, many of the other issues will have to be the subject of further discussions, both within the bargaining team and with the employer – especially those surrounding eligibility criteria and concerns about whether or not their proposed plan actually increases job security will be the subject of further discussions.

    It has been requested of the Bargaining Team that we provide updates every four hours, and we hope to do so throughout the rest of the day.
    Stay tuned…

    PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT FUND

    Currently in our Collective Agreement (CA): $50,000

    3903 Catchup Total: $61,000
    Demand: $150,000

    Employer’s Offer: 65,750 in Year 1 and 100,000 in Year 2 PHD COMPLETION FUND*

    Currently in our Collective Agreement (CA): $95,000

    3903 Catchup Total: $104,483
    Demand: $125,000 / $157,000

    Employer’s Offer: $100,000
    RESEARCH COSTS FUND

    Currently in our Collective Agreement (CA): $46,700

    3903 Catchup Total: $68,912
    Demand: $146,700

    Employer’s Offer: $52,000 in Year 1 & $60,000 in Year 2 RESEARCH GRANTS FUND

    Currently in our Collective Agreement (CA): $115,000

    3903 Catchup Total: $138,272
    Demand: $175,000

    Employer’s Offer: $135,000 in Year 1 and $165,000 in Year 2
    GRADUATE STUDENT BURSARY*

    Currently in our Collective Agreement (CA): $125,000

    3903 Catchup Total: $184,455
    Demand: $187,500 / $250,000

    Employer’s Offer: $167,750 in Year 1 CONFERENCE TRAVEL FUND*

    Currently in our Collective Agreement (CA): $58,300

    3903 Catchup Total: $70,097
    Demand: 108,300

    Employer’s Offer: $67,000 in Year 1 & $85,000 in Year 2
    MASTERS BURSARY FUND*

    Current: $79,550

    3903 Catchup Total: $117,387
    Demand: $144,550 / $209,550

    Employer’s Offer: $107,000 GA BURSARY*
    Current: $189,000

    3903 Catchup Total: $331,704
    Demand: $250,000 / $275,000

    Employer’s Offer: $235,000

  216. Fred

    So what is happening?
    I’ve heard from a source that the agreement is reached and we’re all well on our way to go to school next week
    Any other sources?

  217. Meytal

    @ j

    I heard that the semester would be canceled if the strike is more than 80 business days. Keep in mind the 2 weeks holidays and weekends… we’re not close to losing the semester.

    @ arber & Soraya

    I just watched the news on cp24 and there were no updates regarding today’s meeting. If the strike did end (which I highly doubt, after a couple hours of talking………) it would be ALL OVER the internet and the media. Think about it…

  218. Soraya

    Where is everyone hearing that an agreement has been reached?!?!

    According to Cupe Doll they are still quite a bit apart and have more to talk about…

    Cupe Doll, do you think that we can be in school as early as Monday or Tuesday?!?!

  219. Confused....

    Where did you hear this?

  220. york student

    would someone care to share who these sources are…..i think that your sharing would spare us all some anxiety

  221. juliette

    i am freaking out

  222. Fred

    Also according to the source:
    -The school will be starting on Wednesday the latest
    -We have a week of classes where profs are asked to cram as much as possible into lectures. Also some lectures will go for extra hours to provide the time necessary. The profs will be asked to keep the original syllabus unchanged and ask for all the assignments to be handed it unless the assignment is disrupted in a major by the strike. These efforts are to be the response to all the criticism out there about York credits not having the value compared to other universities
    -No reading week
    -School will end first week into May
    -The second terms starts in February

    Put it all together, you’ll get one week to study for your exams not to mention the new materials presented during that week

    Looks like York really screwed us over!

  223. Confused....

    @ york student

    Agreed.

  224. Soraya

    FRED, WHO IS YOUR SOURCE!?!

  225. Cupe Doll

    @Fred: If true, that’s really great. Is your source credible?

  226. me

    @Fred – there is no point believing anything that you have said, unless you tell us the source.

  227. Sigh.

    Don’t they have to get the union members to vote first before the strike can officially end? Quite ridiculous sounding if it just ended all of a sudden (not that I mind, I want to finish up this business and have this year behind me) with the reasons as stated above on how the two sides have not talked for a month and have been really far apart.

  228. CanCan

    What is this source???
    Link or a name or something?

  229. york student

    oh dear god….i really hope this fred guy doesn’t know what he is talking about.

  230. Cupe Doll

    Sorry, didn’t meant “that’s great” as in everything’s hunky dory. Just great if the strike’s really over…. Need to hear more before I can believe it though…

  231. mizz

    From what I know is that Toronto Star had published an article a few days ago that the university and union have already ended the strike however, they will announce the same after a formal meeting (i.e. negotiations). However, I don’t think that the article holds any truth to it.

  232. york student

    one week? i doubt this though, that would seem like york really is devaluing our ducation

  233. york student

    @ cupe doll, have u heard anything about teh strike being over?

  234. Fred

    I cant say her name since She is a CUPE member and also one of her “good” friends is part of the negotiation team
    You can wait for few hours or till tomorrow for these information to be verified but nevertheless they are correct
    York is really looking forward to save their ass and are making sure students get to cram as much as possible so it looks good for them and their credits not to mention not losing any revenue from the students transferring due to the length of second term

  235. Fred

    and let me say I’m just posting what she has told me
    I have no reason to believe she is pulling a prank since she has given me proper info before regarding the strike and the situation

    Like everyone said, everything is possible and that’s what she has told me

  236. Cam

    all I’m seeing is “a source” or “the source”. WHAT source!?

  237. B

    umm…Fred that’s total BS right there. Read the Senate release on class remediation.

  238. Cam

    nvm I just refreshed

  239. B

    nothing is getting crammed in a week. THIRTEEN days of class remediation does NOT equal a week.

  240. Soraya

    Personally, I don’t think that profs will cram stuff, at least for year long courses, I think profs will either make us do an assignment or an exam, have an option and then just increase the value of the assignments in the 2nd semester. This is all my opinion.

    I just want a friggin legit source!

  241. B

    Soraya read the senate update on class remediation release in December. What Fred’s source is saying is total bullshit.

  242. D

    @Fred
    “-No reading week
    -School will end first week into May
    -The second terms starts in February”

    Isn’t things like when school starts, the semesters and such up for senate to decide?

  243. nellyli

    I personally don’t believe what Fred said, it seems that if all profs are asked to keep the syllabus unchanged and ask for all assignments to be handed as soon as we are back, it will be so contradicting to York’s latest academic remediation (the one before X’s mas break), cuz according that one, all assignments need not to be handed at least for one class has been held and also, profs are requested to make some adjustment in terms of the course syllabus once classes get resumed…

  244. Soraya

    Oh I`ve read it. I know the whole 2 weeks class, 2 weeks exam info. But even if we have 2 weeks, the first week is going to be dealing with the syllabus and the second will probably be exam review. Again, just my opinion.

    I really don`t appreciate people like Fred coming here without a legit source. Not cool guys.

  245. Fred

    If it the total BS or not, it remains to be seen

    Personally, I hope it is all BS and no such a thing happens

    But as I have mentioned, she has been dead on before regarding the situation and till I hear otherwise, I have no reason to think otherwise

    I’m posting the info to make you guys panic or anything, I did it to share the info with the fellow readers hate who like me are waiting for some news to come out

    Cheers

  246. B

    Just call Fred’s info for what it is: BULLSHIT.

    People, the Senate has final say and they’ve already outlined things for us. That’s the legit, credible source here.

  247. Fred

    Correction :
    I’m posting the info to make you guys panic or anything

    Lol I meant

    I’m NOT posting the info to make you guys panic or anything

  248. B

    “I’m posting the info to make you guys panic or anything, I did it to share the info with the fellow readers hate who like me are waiting for some news to come out”

    Nice Freudian slip there.

  249. D

    @Soraya

    Exam review? A week? Profs do these things? I think at best I have had an exam “20 minutes” review…. and it’s more of a “and so… everything we did is on the test… have fun!!!” alas this is engineering for you 🙂

  250. if what Fred says is true, then I’m a dead man.

  251. Disillusioned

    I don’t think it’s fair to bash Fred…..I’m grateful to anyone for sharing anything they hear from what may seem a legitimate source. I guess we’ll find out soon enough though.

  252. D

    Oh yes, and unfortunately as awesome as “STRIKE IS OVER!!!!!!!!” sounds, it just seems too shaky, and it is too easy for someone to just pop by and say “strike is over.”

    Actually, Guys, a friends of mine’s mother is on negotiations team. She also confirms this story. Classes will probably start this week.

    See, that easy 🙂 Hopefully Fred you are not just here to sir up some fun 😉

  253. F-Ed Up

    would it be possible that it’s a bit of fear-mongering so that students aren’t as eager to get back in?

    or are these forums just starting to make me paranoid?

    (not accusing you, personally, Fred – just your source, or perhaps your source’s source? again… total paranoia on my part lol)

  254. Soraya

    @ D

    I’m a CRIM major and my only 2 CRIM classes are 1/2 years so we’ll see what happens with that. As for my other full year courses, who knows, my FILM class has 4 tests throughout the year and the 2nd has already been missed so we’ll see. As for my Italian class and History class, who knows…

    I’m scared simple because I still haven’t finished an essay and I’m working all weeked 😦 arrrrrgh!

    I think I’ve said enough so I’ll stop now… lol

  255. 4th year curious

    Fred, your source is not cridible.
    Two of my two 4th year profs told me that the assignments will be decreased in number and there will be AT LEAST 2 weeks before any final exams.
    Moreover, one of my profs was extremely apologetic and made it clear that he will be very generous with the marking due to the S*&%t York put us through (his words)

  256. Andrew

    Seriously does everyone but me know someone on the negotiations teams?

  257. Cupe Doll

    I’ll let you guys know if I hear anything to confirm Fred’s “source”. Got’ta admit, though — if Fred’s pranking, he’s been quite effective.

  258. Clara Fire

    The strike is not over.
    Even if an agreement had been reached at the bargaining table (and it hasn’t) it would have to be ratified by the membership.
    “Fred” is either misinformed or mistaken.

  259. Undergrad@York

    So that’s that? The strike is over? I should book a train back to Toronto for Monday?

  260. 4th year curious

    by the way, I’m away from Canada until the 12th 😉 and both of my profs told me that was not a big deal 😉

  261. Clara Fire

    I repeat. There has been no agreement reached, although some progress was made in negotiations today.

    The strike is not over; the post by “Fred” is incorrect.

  262. B

    because it bares repeating…

    “I repeat. There has been no agreement reached, although some progress was made in negotiations today.

    The strike is not over; the post by “Fred” is incorrect.”

  263. Worried

    I think everyone is so quick to attack others like Fred who are willing to share info. Why not say thanks and believe what you want to from the posts. It is okay to ask questions but we should try to limit our attacks on each other. We are all frustrated about the strike and need to work together, not against each other.

    If you don’t buy into what Fred is saying, the choice is yours. I want to thank Fred and Cupe Doll who are at least sharing information with us instead of totally keeping us in the dark until the last hour.

  264. Ammaar

    I highly doubt Fred’s source is telling us the truth.

    There is absolutely no mention of the York Senate in his post making the decision to extend the school year till May. If so, it will not take ONE DAY for the senate to make the schedule for the entire year.

    Next, York WILL ask professors to make changes to their syllabus if appropriate. I go to Glendon and our very own principal (yes, principal) said he’s overseeing all of the course syllabus changes so that blows out that point.

    It just seems very wishy washy that the York Senate can all of a sudden come up with a schedule.

    I won’t believe it until either CUPE or York confirms it.

  265. B

    Worried – information is only good so long as its credible. Grasping at straws and fabrications will get you nothing.

  266. CanCan

    @Undergrad@York

    Do not book anything until we know for sure.
    There’s always train tickets lol

  267. Commuter

    From a union member on Koopman’s Anti-Strike Group:

    “The strike is NOT over. There has been some movement in negotiations today; however, as yet there is no full agreement.”

  268. Cupe Doll

    Thank you, Clarifier.. er, Clara Fire 🙂

    That was my understanding as well.

  269. Clara Fire

    It’s not information they’re sharing, but misinformation (or worse — deliberate untruths).

    That’s why we shouldn’t believe it.

  270. Fred

    God I’m not pranking or causing fear or anything
    I’m just posting the info that I have got from this person
    Do you guys really think that I’d love to study for my exams in one week? Hell no, I’m screwed as all of you (except last year students who are screwed the most) by this endless strike
    So till it all clears out, we should just wait and see and like all of you, I hope what she says is total BS

    PS: For the record, when I think of pranking, I think of far more nastier things rather than causing a panic on a website. When you prank someone, you gotta be able to see his/her face 😀
    Where is the fun in virtual pranking?

  271. Yushky

    bullshit the strike is over….if it actually only took 1 day it would have been over before the holidays…I doubt it’ll even be setteled this weekend…no way we are back this week…looking forward to another real update…

  272. Commuter

    From Emma Goldperson, who has seen a bargaining update:

    “I repeat. The. Strike. Is. Not. Over.

    Even if a full agreement had been reached (which it has not) it would still have to be ratified.

    Some progress was made today, but there is as yet no agreement.

    Thanks to those who are pointing out why the poster-known-as-Fred should not be believed.”

  273. Man it sucks to be first year student. I’ve been in school for 2 months, then I get 2 months break in which I’ve reduced my intellectual level to that of an grade 12th, and now I gotta go back and write exams. AND I paid for all of that.

  274. Happy Dray

    @CUPEDoll:

    I wish you would interpret this news for what it really is: good news! (BTW, how on earth could the Executive succeed in remessaging it with “better spinning, belling, whistling and packaging”, when we all get the same RAW DATA, for f*cks sake? Your cynicism actually blinds you to raw facts about what’s really happening within CUPE — and therefore you actually do a disservice to the York community when you communicate your ill-founded impressions of CUPE actions.)

    The union and administration are both working hard. They’re both bargaining in good faith, and they’re both committed to reaching a deal. Here’s more news from CUPE’s bargaining team.

    Here’s CUPE’s latest communication to members:

    “BARGAINING UPDATE JANUARY 3rd 8:30 PM

    This afternoon we resolved some of the outstanding issues surrounding health and safety, Unit 3 grievance procedures, and the letters of intent in the Unit 1 and Unit 3 collective agreements concerning tuition indexation ~V this being one of the major gains from the 2000-2001 strike. We also communicated that we would accept some of the fund increases they proposed, that we’re holding our position in others, and altering our demands in more key areas. Our
    counter-proposals to their movement on funds issues are indicated in the attached document. We distributed a similar version to the employer. Today the employer put a total of approximately $232,000 on the table for funds. We have responded by reducing our demands for total funds by $256,850, while, we think, maintaining the key points
    where we want to develop more gains. We consider this to be a mutual sign that both parties are actually committed to bringing the negotiations closer together. Hopefully this
    is the beginning of more to come. We also
    stated that we would be willing to accept the
    fund protections language they’ve proposed,
    provided certain issues can be clarified. We
    also said that we would be okay with the list
    of funds that would be protected under erosion
    of our funds by membership growth. The fund
    protection language is included here. Article
    XX Fund Protection There will be no diminution
    in the per employee amount in the funds listed
    below during the term of this collective
    agreement as a result of an increase in the
    number of employees in the bargaining unit as
    at October 1, 2009 and October 1, 2010. The
    basis on which growth in the number of
    employees will be measured is the number of
    employees as of October 1, 2008. For example,
    if the per employee amount available is $10
    based on 100 employees as of October 1, 2008,
    the fund will be supplemented by $100 in the
    second year of the Collective Agreement. If
    the number of employees is 90 as of October
    1,2010, no supplement will be required and the
    fund will be $1000.

    “The list of funds protected:

    Childcare subsidies (Unit 1, 2, 3)
    Professional Development Fund (Unit 1, 2, 3)
    GA Bursary Fund (Unit 3)
    UHIP Fund (based on number of international students in the Unit 1 and 3 bargaining units)
    Graduate Student Bursary Fund (Unit 1)
    Masters Bursary Fund (Unit 1)
    PhD Completion Fund (Unit 1)
    Research Grant Funds (Unit 2)
    Conference Travel Fund (Unit 2)
    Teaching Development Fund (Unit 2)

    “We also communicated that we agree with a number
    of their counterproposals to health benefit
    improvements, (dental, vision, and paramedical
    services), but under the condition that we need
    to maintain the Extended Health Benefits (EHB)
    fund in order to be able to assist our members
    to cover greater necessities in health care
    costs, health emergencies, or the need to
    access services not covered by our health care
    plans. They have suggested that the cost of
    their proposed post-retirement benefits program
    would come from money saved from their proposed
    removal of the EHB fund ~V we reiterated that
    this is not an acceptable condition for us, and
    that we will be bargaining on these items as
    separate issues. We also discussed that there
    were a number of omissions and discrepancies in
    their recent documents, and indicated some
    small changes to their new proposal packages
    that we are continuing to review. We requested
    that they compile a list of what has in fact
    been agreed upon.”

    Good news, generally, with relatively minor issues outstanding.

  275. Graham potts

    How could we have exams so soon, when we still have assignments, or tests, quizzes first to work on

  276. Yushky

    I’m sure by now nobody will probably feel this way…but who wants this week off? I do LOL

  277. Jason

    How can we have exams so soon when we still have assignments, tests, quizzes to still work on, seems odd

  278. 4th year curious

    CUPE Doll, what about the Jan 8th Meeting?
    Is that the earliest the agreement can be voted on?

  279. Soraya

    @ Yushky

    I DO!!

  280. Stef

    I have to say, if I were a malicious person, it would be really tempting to spread false rumours on this site because if even half the people here had their stomachs go through the roller coaster mine just did, it totally wouldn’t be necessary to see their
    faces.
    (Not that I think you were pranking us, Fred, just saying – what it lacks in that “personal touch” is made up for in the sheer volume of 50,000 readers. PS – thanks for being brave and facing all of us with your tipster’s info, whatever the outcome.)
    Sigh. I’m 24 years old and I bet if a doctor had been monitoring my blood pressure as I read all this she would have thought I was 65. What a way to start a new year. 😦

  281. Mike Oxbig

    lol at people who are saying to appreciate random people’s input..

    if i was cupe doll i would be offended…

    cupe doll is always on here…and has built credibility…

    you can’t believe any random person…

    and now people are comparing and putting cupe doll’s word on the same level as random sources…

  282. Commuter

    @ 4th year curious

    Should an agreement be reached, a short-notice GMM could be held with a ratification vote taking place shortly after (which takes a couple days).

    My source is Emma Goldperson (union member) from the York Anti-Strike Group.

  283. 4th year curious

    🙂 Thanks… I’m on that site too 😉

  284. Cupe Doll

    @4th year curious: “CUPE Doll, what about the Jan 8th Meeting? Is that the earliest the agreement can be voted on?”

    I suppose the executive could call a special GMM earlier. I’d be extremely surprised if it did, though..

  285. TiredOfThisShit

    I’d just like to point out that the next GMM meeting isn’t scheduled until Thursday Jan. 8; I’d assume that they would have to vote before the offer was accepted.

  286. Commuter

    @ Cupe Doll

    Could you help me interpret the figures you posted in the earlier update?

    I don’t quite understand how the numbers break down or how far you’re off. For example:

    “Currently in our Collective Agreement (CA): $50,000

    3903 Catchup Total: $61,000
    Demand: $150,000

    Employer’s Offer: 65,750 in Year 1 and 100,000 in Year 2 PHD ”

    What does the catchup total mean, and the demand vs. employer’s offer?

    Thanks! You’ve been an asset to this blog! 🙂

  287. Clara Fire

    Ratification of an offer doesn’t typically take place at a GMM anyway, but over a period of a couple of days >following< a GMM at which the offer is discussed.

  288. Yushky

    @ CupeDoll…

    could u go over one more time how close you think they are at reaching an agreement after today and also tell us your personal opionion as to if you think it will be setteled by the end of this weekend…thanks…

  289. Jason

    If york did give in to alot of cupes demands and a settlement is near, why didnt the university just give in alot of earlier, didnt they know they would of had a repeat of 2000/01, shame on york for letting this happen again…

  290. Prasa U.

    If you think you’re screwed, try being an engineering student. I mean my workload was bad enough without a strike, but with this compressed exams stuff I think I’m just screwed completely.

  291. Arunesh Kipling

    Phew!

    Long meeting, just got home. Being the Associate representative for the striking community of CUPE 3903 feel the need to outline the final conclusion of today’s negotiations.

    Cupe will now carry forth their endeavour to ensure job security and are raising our last announced offer by 5.64% . The employer today has shown no respect for out concerncs and this is indeed a spiteful increase in demands.

    The end of this dilemma now seems further away than ever…

  292. Xiu

    The strike is over, just heard on the news.YAAAYY.

  293. Jason

    Apparently in 2005, cupe was ten mins before having a strike, before york just gave them what they wanted. It seems to me that there almost is a strike every 4 or five years at york lately… something must be wrong, either in the union or at york.

  294. Cupe Doll

    @Commuter

    I don’t think my speculations would add anything to yours. But since you asked my however poorly qualified speculations, “catchup” probably means relative to some very questionable 2005-equivalent estimate (which we’ve advocated as our benchmark); “demand” and “offer” likely mean just that — what we’re demanding and what York’s offering at this stage.

    Looks to me like we’re pretty far apart.

  295. nellyli

    is there any meeting scheduled on Sunday? or we have to wait at least till next Monday?

  296. tester

    Jason,

    If York gave up more earlier, then CUPE would have continued striking looking for more.

    The same can be said about the union….they could have been open to less earlier.

    They are playing their game of cat and mouse,….the undergrads are their droppings.

  297. Yushky

    I’ve heard that there is another meeting set for tomorrow…same hours as today – 9:30am-11:00pm

  298. Mike Oxbig

    just give percentages…what are the chances of there being school this week

  299. Ali

    TO :CUPE DOLL

    do you have any other update???

    Thanks

  300. Jason

    so york did give cupe the two year contract it appears

  301. Commuter

    @ Jason

    And you heard this where…

  302. Yushky

    thats good i guess…now how about job security and the wage increase?

  303. Yushky

    but ya where did that info come from?

  304. Jason

    well if u look at what cupe doll posted, about what she received in her inbox mail, it says year 1, what york offered, and year 2, what york offered, but no year three

  305. Yushky

    who knows lol…

  306. Thinker

    damn it! Its taking a toll on all of us! Why don’t either sides give us @least some update! We’re least informed! They’re sitting there deciding our future and we’re least aware!

  307. Commuter

    If that’s true… great. Another (possible) 2010 strike.

    But I suppose I’d rather it be a 2 year than a 3 year contract. It sure would be better to have a strike in 2010 than when I’m graduating in ’11.

  308. Yushky

    ok…time to watch the shootout…taking a break from the strike talk for a few mins…GO CANADA GO!!

  309. Commuter

    *I should say graduating in ’11/’12.

  310. tester

    Good observation. Looks like York is giving the 2 offer…

  311. tester

    Where is the second bargaining update?
    I need more!

    This is like a drug!

  312. york student

    @ cupe doll, Emma from the anti strike facebook group has written that there have been 2 bargaining updates today but that she feels uncomfortable sharing the details(possibly because she may not be anonymous on facebook), could u tell us if any details regarding the end of the strike was announced in that update…..it is understandable if u don’t want to share and we absolutely appreciate all the info u have given us thus far

  313. york student

    btw if york signs a two year contract, i am transferring, i would rather go to another uni with a two year contract, less chance of them going on strike in my 4th year

  314. Mr burns

    You people are too worried about this mess. sit back and laugh at the goofballs that have no jobs and will not recieve the income they lost for the number of weeks they stood out in the cold holding useless signs.
    We are not going to die people!!

  315. Clara Fire

    Re posting updates: I would question the appropriateness of doing this. Negotiations should happen at the table between the two parties directly involved. I don’t understand what’s accomplished by posting updates here (or on Facebook), especially when the poster identifies him/herself as not having a very good understanding of the proposal

  316. angry.young.poor

    good call yusky
    we might not know if theres class on monday but at least there will be a gold medal game with canada in it

  317. york student

    personally i belive that the students are the most important party involved and it is sad that neither the admin or the union are giving us any official updates considering that we are the ones most effected by it

  318. york student

    it being the strike

  319. Soraya

    37 minutes left…

  320. Cupe Doll

    @Jason: “.. it says year 1, what york offered, and year 2, what york offered, but no year three”

    Very astute, Jason. I totally missed that. Trouble is, it could mean York capitulated — or it could mean 3903 isn’t even willing to discuss year 3. It could even mean part of that email got truncated in electronic transit before reaching my inbox. There just isn’t enough reliable and credible info available yet to draw such conclusions.

  321. Commuter

    @ Clara Fire

    “I don’t comment on the content of negotiations, because I think it’s not appropriate to do so in a public forum. I said that there have been 2 updates today, and that I’m not posting them. ”

    That’s from a union member. Can’t say I don’t agree, but it would be nice just to hear some form of update.

  322. Clara Fire

    York student, of course you’re affected. But you’re not directly involved in the negotiations, and in my opinion it only adds to the confusion for someone to present you with a bunch of numbers that they themselves admit not understanding.

  323. tester

    LOOK ABOVE!!

    Clara Fire is Emma from the anti strike facebook group.

    She is trying to keep info away from us!
    We can’t have that!!

  324. F-Ed Up

    @ Clara Fire

    I think it makes people feel better because they feel that they can make better guess whether or not there will be any resolution soon. I would argue that it doesn’t matter much, unless we get some advanced insider info about the strike concluding (which can’t happen today) as we did on this site when before the strike was announced.

    And, as tester said, it’s like an addiction.

    Also, both sides have publicly posted information regarding offers and demands, so I think that these updates *might* be fair game. If everything had been kept private since day 1, perhaps not.

    Anyhow, just a couple cents of mine.

  325. Commuter

    Info is a privilege, tester.

  326. Jason

    I am thinking that if they reach a deal tomorrow, then the gmm would be on tuesday because it requires 24 hours notice, and if it is ratified on tuesday, senate would have to give us 24 hours as mentioned before the end of the strike and when classes resume, so maybe wednesday or thursday will be the start of classes.

  327. york student

    lol…tester, u could be right, Clara Fire we still appreciate whatever info u provided us, without u we might still be freaking out about this fred guy’s info

  328. Clara Fire

    Tester, interesting speculation. But that’s all it is.

    F-Ed Up, I do agree that people believe it’s helpful to make guesses, but I’m not so sure. I think what happens is they just get frustrated and angry when they turn out to have been mistaken.

  329. F-Ed Up

    Clara Fire

    Haha, too true.

  330. Clara Fire

    You’re welcome, York student. The situation is tough enough without rumours flying around.

    Also, folks, please remember that normally an agreement is not ratified at a GMM but after a GMM. The ratification process usually takes a couple of days.

    Just fyi.

  331. Commuter

    Just curious: how long did it take during the last strike in ’00/’01, from the time the negotiations concluded until students were back in class?

  332. nellyli

    so nothing new tonight right? I need to work now.

  333. Milan

    this is all very confusing.
    but at least we’re all in the same boat.
    i’m surprised at how little people are posting and checking his site considering the meeting today.

    i’m a film student so i don’t really have exams, sorry. you all can internet slap me if you want. however, i do have alot of assignments and three major ones that i was given before the strike. they’re all almost finished, but like everyone else who’s stressing i’m super unmotivated. even after the fred scare i found my self very zen about the strike situation.

    so i propose we all close our eyes, hold hands, and breath a little.

    it’s going to be okay. everyone chill. 🙂

  334. Soraya

    “Arunesh Kipling
    January 3, 2009 at 4:17 pm
    Phew!

    Long meeting, just got home. Being the Associate representative for the striking community of CUPE 3903 feel the need to outline the final conclusion of today’s negotiations.

    Cupe will now carry forth their endeavour to ensure job security and are raising our last announced offer by 5.64% . The employer today has shown no respect for out concerncs and this is indeed a spiteful increase in demands.

    The end of this dilemma now seems further away than ever…”

    is this legit?

  335. Cupe Doll

    @Clara Fire: “Negotiations should happen at the table between the two parties directly involved. I don’t understand what’s accomplished by posting updates here…”

    We are not negotiating anything at this forum here, Clara. What we are doing — those of us who have taken the side of the students in this fiasco — is providing students whatever reliable information we can. What’s that you say? The strike update was not reliable? Ridiculous, Clara. Take it up with the author of the strike update.

    What’s that, Sara? Why would we even bother sharing a strike update with students? Well, see, some of us in 3903 do recognize how we’ve victimized the students. And we are doing what little we can to ameliorate York and 3903 culpability.

    So. Some of us from 3903 are at this forum for the students. And this student forum is to keep students informed as possible. So far so good?

    Ok then. Earlier, you contributed right on subject and very helpfully. You were a real clarifier, Clara Fire. That’s why I thanked you @ my 3:50 post. But now you equate sharing with students to bargaining? As if sharing with students was some illegitimate illicit sort of bargaining? Get real, Clara. Sharing with and among students is legitimate and is precisely what this forum is all about. So don’t be a troll, Clara. Students have a right to be concerned about their futures — especially after everything we’ve put them through.

  336. Tired O Dis

    So, since it’s painfully obvious that just requesting info every 2 minutes isn’t going to help us as evidenced by all the panicing ninnies here… any idea when this meeting is projected to end? Like, how long has it been going on for now and how much longer would one guess before they end it for the night, or end it in negotiation, or end it period… etc.

    Any guesses? Note I’m asking for a speculation here, though an educated one obviously – I’m aware an exact timing is impossible.

  337. Confused and Exasperated

    @Soraya
    Hmm maybe you’re just pulling a ‘Fred’ ( 😉 ) but yeah… I guess I wouldn’t put it past the people who think negotiations are ‘demanding the impossible’. Still, 30% a year increase is awful, but raising your demand when the last was rejected, well… who knows I guess thats what a York education gets you.

  338. Cupe Doll

    @Soraya

    No — totally not legit. Decent sarcasm, though.

  339. dj

    thanks cupedoll!

  340. Tired O Dis

    Wouldn’t surprise me if you were feeding us info only as a stunt to get us on your side, Cupe Doll. Don’t take that offensively; it’s just, it’d make sense, would it not?

    However, with that said, you’re not feeding us FALSE information – you’re just getting us on your side by, oh I don’t know, treating us like intelligent beings. Imagine that, eh?

    In short: Sure, you might be using this as one big method to get us on your side. But you’re doing it in a manner that benefits us. So, frankly, I’d say you deserve the support you might be getting from said posts. Not like you’re feeding us with propaganda or misinformation, so why the hell not?

  341. Mike Oxbig

    let’s analyze this…

    we have Fred’s source and Soraya’s source

    why has Soraya’s source been squashed so much quicker than Fred’s?

  342. Soraya

    hey hey, I’m not pulling a ‘Fred’ cuz I didn’t say it… I was just asking if it was legit but I guess not.

  343. Confused and Exasperated

    Well I stand by my statement… with this forum as proof, YorkU Education at the very least breaks your sarcasm detector.

  344. Soraya

    wait a minute!!! I didn’t say it, it was a post in this forum and no one seemed to see it so I was asking.

  345. Confused and Exasperated

    Haha its alright, I don’t think anyone knows anything at the moment. I think this forum as denigrated to the equivalent of throwing a whole bunch of rodents in a bag and having them duke it out, while everyone else stands around guessing whose winning.

  346. B

    Scroll up! It’s not Soraya’s source. It’s someone elses comment! Soraya’s not the one spreading the false info. Although, you kind of brought up a comment that was more or less ignored…

  347. Clara Fire

    No, Doll, I didn’t say the update wasn’t reliable.

    I said I didn’t see it as helpful to post updates the content of which you yourself admitted not understanding. I said I thought it added to confusion, anxiety and frustration rather than ameliorating them.

  348. Jason

    @soraya where is this post I dont see it

  349. Soraya

    Jason,

    crtl + f

    😉

  350. Tired O Dis

    Because Soraya went about it wrong, Mike. Fred insisted what he was saying was the truth; the confidence snared many. Soraya started her post with doubt by saying “is this legit”, meaning logic took over on most people. And, logically, while it does sound like something York would pull, people are going to be far more skeptical after Fred.

  351. gee

    @ clara fire

    by posting the information we can all learn from this. If cupe doll had not posted that information, jason would not have made the observation of the two year contract being put on the table.
    we are all in this together and I would rather have to much information (including some I do not understand and have to learn about) than have no information at all. Just think, the more you teach us now, the less you will have to explain in 2010.

  352. Cupe Doll

    Clara, you questioned the “appropriateness” of sharing with students on grounds that negotiations should stay on the table between the principals. I.e., not spill over here. And then you gratuitously threw in my admitted lack of expertise at interpreting the raw data shared.

    Let’s dispense with my lack of expertise you gratuitously threw in. I advised that nobody ask me what the raw data meant — and only shared my interpretation after getting asked anyway.

    This leaves your “appropriateness” sharing with students issue. But it sounds like you’ve retracted all that. Thanks — let’s not get into an argument over this nonsense. That’s what isn’t “appropriate” here — especially now real stuff is happening.

  353. Clara Fire

    Well, that’s the thing, Gee.

    The poster of the update is honest enough to admit that she doesn’t understand what it means, which I definitely appreciate.

    But given that admission, without even a little informed guidance, however admirable it may be that you’re interested in learning, there’s no way to know whether, for example, the “observations” people make are even close to correct.

    Speculation is fine, but let’s not confuse it with fact. Let’s not act on those speculations until they’re confirmed. And let’s try not to be too disappointed if it should turn out that the speculations and analyses that appear here turn out to be erroneous.

    Beyond that, “observe” to your heart’s content.

  354. Yorkie

    Newest post on this site, “Inter-Union Update 8:30 PM, January 3rd”, read up on it. It looks like the two parties are moving in the right direction. What do you think Cupe Doll?

  355. Clara Fire

    Doll,

    I retract nothing. I didn’t make the statement you accused me of making (that the updates were unreliable) so I can hardly retract that statement, now can I?

    Kindly don’t misquote me. And kindly don’t misquote my response to your misquote.

    Beyond that, I absolutely agree. Now that negotiations have begun to move forward, let’s hope this progress continues.

  356. gee

    @ clara fire

    that’s just it clara, as an undergrad student, that is all Cupe and York have allowed me to do, observe.

  357. aguyuno

    Cupe, here’s what it breaks down to in my opinion; I know I haven’t posted yet, but I’ve been following the argument so yeah.

    Basically, it’s quite possible that you’re posting your info to “get us on your side”. I mean sure, why not? Don’t take that offensively, it just would make sense to assume that, would it not?

    But here’s the thing. Even if that’s why you’re doing it, so what? You’re not trying to get us to side with you through misinformation (like the Admin), or through Animal Farm-like propaganda (“You don’t want the neo-liberalism of the Admin (Jones) to come back, do you?!”). You’re going radical, trying to win us over with *Gasp* treating us, the students, like intelligent human beings.

    What a crazy ass concept THAT is, eh Clara? Sara? Convenient your names are so similar, by the way. I mean really – you couldn’t think up something better? You had to make both your usernames rhyme? At least name your second name Andrea or something, Christ.

    Point is, Cupe, that your “tactics” may win us over. But you’ve done nothing but treat our strife with good natured almost motherly behaviour, what with holding our hand threw it but then letting us go without us noticing so we can learn to walk alone (comments such as “Students need to try to” and such being slipped). So even if it is all one big elaborate tactic for you to win us over… so be it! You’ve earned the support.

  358. Jason

    Just let cupe doll take the floor, she seems to know more then anyone else. As for clara fire, this a forum, we can discuss anything we want. @ cupe doll what do u make of the new update

  359. Clara Fire

    I know, Gee. It’s the “nature of the beast”. People might not like it, but the fact of the matter is that the negotiations are between the administration and the union. Those are the groups at the table and those are the groups who have to come to an agreement.

  360. aguyuno

    On top of my last post, it’s become apparent that constantly going WHAT’S THE INFO, OMFG I’M FREAKING OUT every 2 minutes isn’t going to help. So does anyone with any sort of insider info know when this meeting will end? I mean, it might not be for days officially, but at SOME point they must all be dismissed for the night, at which point we can get updates and what not, so yeah.

    Any speculation here is fine. I know we obviously don’t have a hardset time. And if this question has already been answered, I do apologise.

  361. gee

    @ clara fire

    jason is right, this is our forum, where we are allowed to panic, cry, stress, and yes, sometimes have mis-information. (which is usually corrected very quickly)
    We don’t have to just observe here. Here we get more information than anywhere else. Here we feel like we are part of york. So when you hint that maybe someone who has shared information with us shouldn’t have, someone we have all grown to trust, we ask you not to. Let us have our little bits of information, we are not hurting anyone.

  362. Mike Oxbig

    i hate to be rude…even behind a fake name and all..but…isn’t cupe doll a guy?

  363. Cupe Doll

    Misquote? The only quoting was of your “appropriateness” term. As in: “I would question the appropriateness of doing this. Negotiations should happen at the table between the two parties directly involved. I don’t understand what’s accomplished by posting updates here.”

    Well, if you enjoy lying for all too plainly see, that’s between you and your therapist. No probs. Whether you’ve retracted or not, you don’t seem to be arguing updates shouldn’t be posted here anymore — so there’s nothing left me to disagree with you. Get your last word in and have a good night 🙂

  364. Clara Fire

    Gee,

    I absolutely take your point, about feeling as though this is a forum where you have a sense of belonging. And I respect that, and have no desire to take it away from you.

    I won’t post any more here other than to correct factual errors where I see them.

    Hope that’s okay.

  365. Happy Dray

    LAST BARGAINING UPDATE OF JANUARY 3/2009

    We met one last time with the employer in order to hear their
    responses to our counterproposals regarding funds, and benefits. They
    stated that we are still far apart, and in the context of our
    ambitious fund proposals that they do not want to accept any new funds
    (they two new funds we are proposing are a union-administered child
    care fund which has been repeatedly identified as a key priority, and
    the new immigration and citizenship fund). They want, rather, only to
    make increases in existing funds. However, they did not actually make
    any more increases to the existing funds They also continue to be
    resistant to extending the research costs fund and master’s bursary
    funds to Unit 3 members. They did note the movement we had made on
    the graduate student bursary.

    We still need to revisit fund protection as there is some language
    that needs to be reviewed. Also, they continue to link the new
    paramedical services plan as contingent on the removal of the Extended
    Health Benefits (EHB) fund. Also they indicated a willingness to talk
    about post-retirement benefits outside of the removal of the EHB fund,
    but see it as a way of funding the proposal. We continue to press
    them to engage in producing a joint master document to keep track of
    our agreed-to proposals, so that the bargaining process is less
    confused but it is unclear as to whether they will agree to this.

    We plan to meet with the Employer again tomorrow at the Holiday Inn
    Express, at 10:30 am, in order to talk about SRCs, review the
    documents that were passed to us and perhaps some of the other
    priorities that have not been dealt with.

    The Holiday Inn Express is at Norfinch Drive, which is off of Finch
    east of Jane St.

  366. Cupe Doll

    @Mike Oxbig: “.. isn’t cupe doll a guy?”

    Does it really matter? If things work out alright then I’ll never need to do anything requiring that I out myself. Besides — this isn’t a dating site 🙂

    @Jason: “cupe doll what do u make of the new update”

    Give me a chance to read, Jason.. Clarifier (Clara Fire) totally distracted me..

  367. Mike Oxbig

    it’s just that everyone keeps referring to you as a she and he…

  368. Mike Oxbig

    Clara Fire is just biting off of me…she saw that Mike Oxbig…so she just wanted to Clarafy

  369. Jason

    Clara fire seems antagonistic, clara fire is distracting everyone

  370. Clara Fire

    Oy.

    Doll, when I say you misquoted me I’m not referring to the word between quotations but to the post in which you wrote, “What’s that you say? The strike update was not reliable?”

    The rhetorical structure of that post implied that I had previously expressed the view that the update itself was not reliable.

    I had not expressed that view; hence my claim that you misquoted me.

    As for your insinuations regarding my honesty and my mental health, well, I think they say a good deal more about you than me, so I’ll just leave it at that.

  371. Jason

    he, she, me who cares, we are not here to discuss the gender of cupe doll, its an anonymous forum, so it should stay that way

  372. Jason

    I may be a she or a he, who knows?? lets concentrate on just discussing what is at hand, the strike.

  373. Commuter

    Where did Happy Dray’s announcement come from? Is that official?

  374. Mike Oxbig

    lol Jason..the person has a picture…how anonymous is that..unless its fake…

    but anyways…

    apparently they don’t want to end the strike because of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict….

    there would be chaos at school…alot of students will be unhappy and then you have their conflict on top of everything…

    bad combination…

  375. Cupe Doll

    @Jason: ok, read it (them). I’ll say only this much: it sounds like the sides are really actually bargaining. Like, realistically. As if they’ve gotten over their ideological differences. And if that’s true then that’s really good news. Because no matter how far apart, if they’re really bargaining then they can work it out.

    But. There are limits the authority of the bargaining team in 3903. Even if the bargaining team recommends acceptance, there will be powerful forces arrayed against. That’s why personally I remain skeptical.

  376. Jason

    What powerful forces, u mean at the gmm they would reject a good offer

  377. Jason

    If the barganing team has a good offer, doesnt it usually mean that it will most likely be accepted at the gmm

  378. Mike Oxbig

    so what’s the prime minister going to do about this mess?

    when is the minister of education going to bring out a gat and start talking wild-west business

    the students deserve a vacation for this entire things…

  379. Mike Oxbig

    by powerful forces…he means…Darth Vader

  380. Jason

    darth vader, lol thats a good one

  381. Cupe Doll

    @Mike Oxbig: “the person has a picture…how anonymous is that..unless its fake…”

    Mike.. this is weird. But it’s true. I never put that picture there. I think Yorkstrike did. And I never complained because.. well.. because I liked the picture.

    @Clara Fire

    Seriously? You made reference to my inference regarding your position as me misquoting you? Ok, maybe you aren’t dishonest. Now you frighten me.

  382. Mike Oxbig

    so what are the union and cupe rep’s going to do at the hotel tonight while the negotiations are on break???

    have a huge orgy???

  383. Mike Oxbig

    maybe that will “loosen” up the tensions just a little bit

  384. Cupe Doll

    @Jason: actually, it is a bit like Darth Vader. It has happened more than once in the past when the bargaining team expressed favourably to begin with — then flip-flopped after getting intimidated or bullied by executive and “whacko” elements.

    (Ok — there’s going to be howling about the above paragraph. Since we in 3903 really truly need everyone believing what a model of true democracy we are)

    To be fair — I’m not saying this will happen. Only that I wouldn’t be surprised if it did.

  385. Yorkie

    @Mike Oxbig

    Lmao. Good one!

  386. i just want to say that you see people here posting like they don’t know shit about the strike with their, “i school back yet, i just want to know if we’ll being going back” and then with the “oh yeah, don’t expect school to be back for like 3000 years LOLOL” and then with the “does anybody know what’s going on?!?”

    point is: THESE ARE ALL THE SAME PEOPLE. THEY’RE FUCKING WITH YOUR MINDS. IT’S THE INTERNET. THEY CAN SAY WHAT THEY WANT, MAKING YOU THINK THAT THEY’RE STUPID. BUT FOR ALL WE KNOW, THEY’RE ALL THE SAME PEOPLE EGGING YOU ON.

    sorry for the caps. but if you want a real source, wait until cupe or york announces a real agreement, regardless of PR moves.

  387. bob

    its cupe dolls brother here, guys the strike will be done soon, get ready

  388. Happy Dray

    CUPEDoll writes “But. There are limits the authority of the bargaining team in 3903. Even if the bargaining team recommends acceptance, there will be powerful forces arrayed against. That’s why personally I remain skeptical.”

    The forces arrayed against can in no way be described as “powerful.” While (s)he can remain as skeptical as (s)he likes, the vast majority of that highly active minority of CUPE members you keep hearing CUPEDoll talk about are really interested in ending the strike asap.

    Her “brother” is right. Get ready to get back to school. Maybe not this week, but next week.

  389. On the CUPE website, they’re saying they want to picket on Monday. Does that mean they realize that a deal won’t be reached anytime soon or are they just doing that to intimidate York.

  390. Cupe Doll

    Happy Dray acknowledges “the forces” in 3903 I’ve been talking about. And that’s big of Happy Dray. I am grateful to Happy Dray for not saying I’m just imagining everything. Thanks, Happy Dray.

    And Happy Dray is quite right. While numerous, the “ideologues” and their friends are a minority in 3903. For reasons I’ve explained — like in conversation with Andrew — the “ideologues” in 3903 are a minority usually far more powerful than the majority.

    Notice, though. Happy Dray doesn’t deny how powerful the forces I’ve spoken of — the “ideologues” — are in 3903. Nope. What Happy Dray denies is that the ideologues still wish to continue striking. Happy Dray really truly wants us believing that by now, finally, “.. the vast majority of that highly active minority of CUPE members you keep hearing CUPEDoll talk about are really interested in ending the strike asap.”

    Fair enough? Ok, then. Happy Dray is lying. And how do I know that Happy Dray lies? Lots of ways. Not just from long experience. Not just from knowing many ideologues and understanding their agenda. Also from having been tricked by precisely this sort of lie just prior the strike began.

    See, I was worried after we in 3903 voted for the strike mandate. The mandate was supposed to enable us to realistically bargain more powerfully. That’s what we voted for. But (not only) I was worried that the 3903 ideologues would abuse the mandate we voted. That instead of bargaining more realistically or powerfully, the ideologues would lead us into striking needlessly too long. That in order to humiliate York as a “neo-liberal” employer, they’d go wild damaging our own membership and ruining the academic year for everyone at York.

    So, prior the GMM at which we decided to actually strike, I spoke to many 3903 members. And quite a few were against actually striking. Some were already worried about the year getting academically ruined or being entirely lost. Others were just worried about rent. Still others thought we ought to try bargaining powerfully yet realistically — just like we had voted. But here’s the kicker, though. Every 3903 member known to me as one of the ideologues told me the same thing. Can you guess what? I can almost quote what it was. Not from what I recall being told by ideologues before we started striking. I can almost quote it from what Happy Dray wrote. Since it’s almost identical to what the ideologues were telling everyone from the very start.

    “.. the vast majority of that highly active minority of CUPE members you keep hearing.. about are really interested in [not ending the strike asap but] not striking in the first place.” See? The ideologues’ party line used to be they wanted to negotiate powerfully yet realistically — not go all out striking. Not go striking out against ridiculous ideological figments.

    Back then I didn’t agitate against the ideologues because I fell for their party line. That the majority of them wasn’t committed to striking all out. No way am I falling for them now saying how they’re suddenly committed to ending this strike.

    Now here’s some (unconfirmed) news. There is a rumour that if 3903 and York do not reach a deal within the next couple days, the Liberals are then re-convening to quickly pass back to work legislation. This puts tremendous pressure on 3903 to immediately get totally real. Maybe they will. But you can express your feelings about this strike and back to work legislation at the CP24 poll here: http://www.cp24.com

  391. Dena

    I heard on cp24 that they are going to be bargaining all day, until an agreement is reached… so we’ll see how well that goes…

  392. BFD

    btw;
    Did anyone happen to notice that CP24 cameras were locked out
    of the exquisite and palatial premise of the Holiday Inn Express
    for most of the day yesterday. And if you noticed
    very carefully, it was Global toronto that first broadcast
    real footage from inside the building, a few mins before CP24
    did?

    Regard all media with a skeptical eye.
    Moses is a great guy, he’s even got a block or two
    named after him. But his little media empire exists for the
    the same reason as all the other do: to get you to sit still
    long enough to watch the next commercial advertisement.

    Any actually news that flows your way is purely coincidental.

    “Journalisms kinda scary
    And of it we should be wary”
    FZ -rip-

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