Petition for a Resolution Before January

Copy and paste:

Hello,

I am a York student writing to ask for an immediate return to the negotiating
table so that we can get back to classes. The last five weeks have certainly
compromised the fall semester, and I do not what to have my Winter semester
compromised as well.

Many of us have made sacrifices, taken loans, put careers on hold to go back to
school and moved half way across the country to study at York. This is all real
life that cannot be put on hold for indefinite number of weeks. Please do not
have us regret choosing York as our preferred university and start looking into
transfer and withdrawal options.

We came to university to study, and are paying tuition in exchange for receiving
education in our chosen fields. This strike is more than an inconvenience, it is
a  breach of contract between students and university caused by the current
labour dispute. Such conflicts should not be allowed to interfere with student
education, and in the same spirit that Schulich and Osgoode are continuing
their graduate program teaching, so should the entire university.

I respectfully, yet strongly request that the University and the Union return to the
negotiating table and reach an agreement before Christmas, so that our next
semester would not be jeopardized as well.

Kindest regards,
Student: ________

 

Email to: 

mshoukri@yorku.ca

spotton@yorku.ca

beverett@yorku.ca

bilyk@yorku.ca

 

Notice

I will be rearranging the top header with all the links to different pages of the site. “Resources” will contain updates, memos, contact information and general information. I will consolidate all the efforts and projects of Students into a tab called “Things you can do.”

 

Good day everyone

YorkStrike2008

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89 Comments

Filed under Uncategorized

89 responses to “Petition for a Resolution Before January

  1. student

    why no union emails?

  2. Student2

    Exactly, why not also email the union, it’s going to take both parties to get back in the classroom.

    We’re obviously not going back until January, so happy holidays all.

  3. tester

    Hey. the address I use for predident shourki is mshoukri@yorku.ca

    plus presidnt@yourku.ca doesn’t look right 🙂

    Are you going to have a letter to be mailed to our MPPs urging them to monitor the situation over the break. I don’t think we should give up on the government….maybe they’d step in at the last minute to say the day (the year)

    And the union…..we definitely should have some words for CUPE3903.

  4. Ridculous

    I will send off the e-mails tonight when I have more time. I am taking a break then I will be trying to get more signatures.

    Sounds good having a “things you can do folder”.

  5. tester

    In my opinion, we should be emailing our MPPs, York and CUPE on a daily basis.

  6. Bobert

    what about the clowns at the YFS who seem to be on the side of CUPE?

  7. ts

    After sending numerous e-mails around and signing a few petitions already… I’m getting pessimistic that the students will be able to put pressure on either side through these means… I’m not sure what else we can do, but these petitions don’t seem to be anything at all…Considering that there’s no talks scheduled, and the holidays begin next Wednesday, somehow I doubt we’ll be back Jan. 5th.

  8. Stef

    Sounds good, but it’s want, not what. (Can’t wait till they make a “smart” spell checker!)
    😉

  9. Waste of time

    Got an email from York earlier today officially stating that we will not be back any earlier than Jan 5th

  10. tester

    Bobert,
    YFS President Hamid Osman will be removed from office when school starts. Would you like to sign a petition supporting his removal?

    IF so, visit http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=39516897469

  11. tester

    for the mass email protest campaign, here are other the email addresses for the municipal governments for Markham, Richmondhill, Vaughan, Oakville, Brampton, Mississauga.

    Please add these email addresses to the list with the MPPs, as many students are from these municipalities

    fscarpitti@markham.ca , glandon@markham.ca, twong@markham.ca, jjones@markham.ca, jheath@markham.ca, cmoretti@markham.ca, jvirgilio@markham.ca, eshapero@markham.ca, vburke@markham.ca, jwebster@markham.ca, dhorchik@markham.ca, lkanapathi@markham.ca, achiu@markham.ca, officemayor@richmondhill.ca, vspatafora@richmondhill.ca, bhogg@richmondhill.ca, gberos@richmondhill.ca, cohen@dlcohen.com, npapa@richmondhill.ca, gchan@richmondhill.ca, lfoster@richmondhill.ca, awarner@richmondhill.ca, mayor@vaughan.ca,mirella.compagno@vaughan.ca, ann.coletta@vaughan.ca, roula.nolis@vaughan.ca, joyce.frustaglio@vaughan.ca, joy.ciafardoni@vaughan.ca, mario.ferri@vaughan.ca, angela.bortoluzzi@vaughan.ca, gino.rosati@vaughan.ca, enza.barbieri@vaughan.ca, alan.shefman@vaughan.ca, debi.traub@vaughan.ca, sandra.racco@vaughan.ca, anita.micoli@vaughan.ca, bernie.divona@vaughan.ca, anna.bellicoso@vaughan.ca, tony.carella@vaughan.ca, lucy.cardile@vaughan.ca, peter.meffe@vaughan.ca, adele.panicali@vaughan.ca,mayor@oakville.ca,ajohnston@oakville.ca, rrobinson@oakville.ca, foliver@oakville.ca, cduddeck@oakville.ca, kbird@oakville.ca, mchapin@oakville.ca,aelgar@oakville.ca,rlapworth@oakville.ca, jknoll@oakville.ca, mgrant@oakville.ca, tadams@oakville.ca,mkhan@oakville.ca, mayor@brampton.ca, michael.halls@brampton.ca ian.newman@brampton.ca, grant.gibson@brampton.ca, elaine.moore@brampton.ca, john.hutton@brampton.ca, paul.palleschi@brampton.ca, john.sanderson@brampton.ca, bob.callahan@brampton.ca, gael.miles@brampton.ca, sandra.hames@brampton.cajohn.sprovieri@brampton.ca, vicky.dhillon@brampton.ca, mayor@mississauga.ca, carmen.corbasson@mississauga.ca, pat.mullin@mississauga.ca, maja.prentice@mississauga.ca,mary.maiorano@mississauga.ca, karen.hardison@mississauga.ca, eve.adams@mississauga.ca, carolyn.parrish@mississauga.ca,barbara.johnstone@mississauga.ca, brenda.robertson@mississauga.ca, pat.saito@mississauga.ca, katie.mahoney@mississauga.ca, sue.mcfadden@mississauga.ca,george.carlson@mississauga.ca

  12. tester

    and here is a list of the Constituency offices for the MPPs.

    I believe you list has their Queen’s Park emails, which is good, but since the Ontario Legislature has rised until Feb, we might want to email them at their constituency offices TOO, to make sure we get to them.

    Here are those emails:
    acarroll.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    ahorwath-co@ndp.on.ca,
    amangat.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    bbalkissoon.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    bcrozier.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    bdelaney.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    bduguid.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    bill.murdochco@pc.ola.org,
    bmauro.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    bob.baileyco@pc.ola.org,
    cbentley.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    christine.elliott@pc.ola.org,
    cmitchell.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    csousa.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    dcansfield.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    dcaplan.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    dduncan.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    dinovoc-co@ndp.on.ca,
    dlevac.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    dmatthews.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    dmcguinty.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    dorazietti.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    dramsay.mpp.kirklandlake@liberal.ola.org,
    dramsay.mpp.newliskeard@liberal.ola.org,
    dzimmer.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    elizabeth.witmerco@pc.ola.org,
    ernie.hardemanco@pc.ola.org,
    fgelinas-co@ndp.on.ca,
    frank.kleesco@pc.ola.org,
    garfield.dunlopco@pc.ola.org,
    gerry.martiniukco@pc.ola.org,
    gphillips.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    gsmitherman.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    gsorbara.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    hhampton-co@ndp.on.ca,
    hjaczek.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    htakhar.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    info@randyhillier.com,
    jbradley.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    jbrownell.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    jdickson.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    jerry.ouelletteco@pc.ola.org,
    jgerretsen.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    jim.wilsonco@pc.ola.org,
    jleal.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    jmilloy.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    jmlalonde.mpp.hawkesbury@liberal.ola.org,
    jmlalonde.mpp.rockland@liberal.ola.org,
    john.otooleco@pc.ola.org,
    john.yakabuskico@pc.ola.org,
    joyce.savolineco@pc.ola.org,
    julia.munroco@pc.ola.org,
    jwatson.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    jwilkinson.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    kcraitor.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    kflynn.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    kkular.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    kramal.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    kwynne.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    lalbanese.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    laurie.scottco@pc.ola.org,
    lberardinetti.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    lbroten.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    ldombrowsky.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    lisa.macleod@pc.ola.org,
    ljeffrey.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    lpendergast.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    lrinaldi.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    lsandals.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    mbest.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    mbrown.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    mbryant.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    mchan.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    mcolle.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    mgravelle.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    mkwinter.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    mmeilleur.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    mprue-co@ndp.on.ca,
    msergio.mpp@liberal.ola.org,
    msmith.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    mvanbommel.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    norm.millerco@pc.ola.org,
    norm.sterlingco@pc.ola.org,
    peter.shurmanco@pc.ola.org,
    pfonseca.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    phoy.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    pkormos-co@ndp.on.ca,
    pmcneely.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    pmiller-co@ndp.on.ca,
    rbartolucci.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    rmarchese-co@ndp.on.ca,
    rmoridi.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    robert.runcimanco@pc.ola.org,
    saggelonitis.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    speters.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    spupatello.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    sqaadri.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    sylvia.jonesco@pc.ola.org,
    tabunsp-co@ndp.on.ca,
    ted.arnottco@pc.ola.org,
    ted@tedchudleigh.com,
    tim.hudakco@pc.ola.org,
    tmcmeekin.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    toby.barrettco@pc.ola.org,
    truprecht.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    vdhillon.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    warthurs.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,
    ynaqvi.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org,

  13. hicrewComm

    damn it. fuck york university

  14. Bobert

    I am all for ousting Osman, in the near future but for now i’d just like to pressure that tool into listening to his constituents

  15. yorkstrike2008

    “Bobert
    December 15, 2008 at 10:24 am · Edit
    what about the clowns at the YFS who seem to be on the side of CUPE?”

    You should have come to the Rally the Senate. I went after YFS pretty sharply for becoming a Union mouthpiece. He didn’t even defend himself. Some other guy did.

    He just sits around and texts messages – useless.

  16. I am not on facebook. Get a petition outside of that, so we can get that idiot off of the YFS. We may not be able to get him ousted, but at least we can make enough noise to not get him re-elected next year.

  17. Sarah

    i’m starting to think that since neither side is doing ANYTHING to help resolve this strike, maybe we should. And so far, it doesn’t look like mass amounts of email filling MPP’s inboxes is going to do the trick.
    What would they think if 50,000 students stormed the campus on Jan 5th and went back to class…even if the strike isn’t over?
    we need a way to show both sides that we’re SERIOUS about getting back to class and taking back our education.

  18. tester

    Sarah,

    I think we should keep with emailing the MPPs….keep reminding them that this is still a pressing issue. plus, you never know, maybe they will step in during the 11th hour (in Feb)..but you are right in that we need to do other things too, things to get attention. I like the idea of going to school/class on Jan 5th.
    Even if we just gather inVari Hall to start, it would be good.

  19. Andrew

    Emailing MPP’s will fall on deaf ears. Libs have already said they are not forcing back to work.

  20. Ridculous

    I also think any and all personal hardship stories that are a direct result of the strike would help a lot. There was a lady at the senate meeting who might lose her subsidized day care spot because of the strike. If we could compile a bunch of (true stories together) and forward them on with contact information to mpps, york senators, the media, etc.

    I do believe that would get a reaction once people realize the human hardship that can result from the strike then they start putting faces and lives to the rhetoric.

  21. NotAMorningPerson

    I have sent out so many emails but I am very pessimistic about it. They’ll do what they want to do and they don’t care about students.

  22. Cupe Doll

    @Sarah: “What would they think if 50,000 students stormed the campus on Jan 5th and went back to class…even if the strike isn’t over?”

    They’d soil all over themselves. And the strike would be over in 48 hours. Except you wouldn’t need 50 thousand students. If you guys made a half-decent media spectacle of yourselves, a couple thousand would do it.

    Students already have every public opinion on your side. Also great communications — especially @this forum. Amazing start — but more is needed to become effective. Petitioning MPPs just won’t work. Not because “they don’t care about students.” That’s not true — they do care.

    The problem is the way your campus got turned into an ideological trench warfare zone. It’s not just 3903 and York. It’s MPPs too. With NDP MPPs on one side, conservative MPPs on the other — and Liberals feeling all clever since figuring how much better it is politically to just sit and cower this one out of sight and mind.

    Meanwhile, students are caught in the middle of this idiotic “neo-liberalism” ideological battle — and because how ideological this battle is, nobody gives students one second thought. But students can totally force everyone to think again. Force everyone including York, 3903 and every MPP to think hard and think twice more. Just by a couple thousand students spectacularly crashing your own campus. By creating the sort of nightmare PR disaster the ideologues won’t forget. Not anytime real soon.

    It wouldn’t just end this strike if students stood up like that. It would also make ideologues of every stripe think harder before trying to hold York hostage ever again. And that would be extremely swell for each and every York diploma — whether past, present or future.

  23. Sarah

    Well then we’ve got about 3 weeks to get the ball rolling on this…
    I don’t have the organizational skills to take this on, but YorkStrike2008, do you think you’d be able to get information out there?
    I think it could be awesome if we could get enough students to come out to show that we’re serious about getting back to class.

  24. ram

    @cupe doll
    I saw that there is a GMM on wenesday (17th). Do you know if the bargaining team from the union’s side is available / willing to negotiate even over the christmas holidays? If so, that would sound very nice.

  25. Andrew

    Another I think funny, but very visual way to get students involved, rather then having people all meet up is to have small cards made up for students to take or print off, and brought together. On the cards the students would write how much money they have wasted because of this strike. Ie. things like rent, food, parking passes, etc. I wouldn’t could school fees because we will get our school in at some point, but the number will be extremely high. Hell I’d already put in for $885 myself for two months of rent lost.

    The cards would be made up like IOU’s except instead of that, it would YOU’s. As in “YOU OWE US”. Would be nice I think to give the media a nice day by day update on how much money has been wasted by students while CUPE/York deal with this.

    I believe something like this would send a loud message, more then any 1 day showing up would ever do. Because you can use both York’s and CUPE’s words against them. “In these hard economic times, would it not be in the students favor to reach a fast and fair deal so the 50,000 york students are not hard pressed into spending money they already don’t have”.

    If 50,000 all had just $400 of debt per month caused by this strike, that would amount to $40MILLION DOLLARS. Image if each piece of paper amount to $1. I’d be more then happy to be responsible for dumping 40million pieces of paper, with contract info on where to send payments onto the desks of York and Cupe leaders.

  26. Andrew

    Or as I just thought, I think an even bigger visual would be to take every piece of paper that the students have written on, and put them all in a big pile. Then simply (but safe of course) light it on fire. Because isn’t that basically what has happened? I use this term a lot in poker when we have bad players giving money away. We say “they might as well just light it on fire rather then sitting down at the table.”

  27. Stef

    I have to say, I really, really like the idea of going to school on the 5th. Like, a lot. I’ll even pretend I have class on Mondays for it.
    Yorkstrike – you wanna organize it? 🙂

  28. Andrew

    In honesty, doing something on the 5th I think would be a bad idea. Let people get back to Toronto. A wednesday would probably be a better day to hold something on. Say the 7th. The 5th-6th you would be smaller things, 7th your major thing, 8th-9th other smaller things.

    Doing a one time protest to me is not worth it. You need continued pressure. Or you need it to continue for week by week. Or say, every Tuesday/Thursday this happens, so it happens more often. Then media can run headlines “5000 meet on Tuesday” “4000 meet on Thursday”. Rinse repeat.

  29. gg

    In today’s ( Dec. 15th) Metro Paper there was an article about a pregnant (in her 3rd trimester) woman from another country taking an African theater course @ York, which was needed for her to graduate.
    Now because of the strike, she left for her homeland w/o that credit and is going to have her baby, so she might not be able to come back and finish off her degree.

    Here’s the link for the article: http://www.metronews.ca/toronto/Local/article/155114

  30. Stef

    Andrew,
    Tuesday Thursday is hard for me – I have 12 hour days both times! 😉
    (Why do I want to go back to school? Because I’m psychotic.)

  31. Commuter

    @ ram

    Global News said they wouldn’t negotiate over the holidays. Don’t know if that’s true or not, but that’s what I’ve heard.

  32. Ridculous

    @gg

    Thanks for the link. Its news like that that has convinced me if we could gather hardship stories would get attention. Maybe do both? Or organize a charity dance or demonstration for hardship fund for students on campus. Like if we could get alot of students to go on campus 1 day on that day get those hardship stories together and make it a gathering for donations too.

  33. Ridculous

    Oh forgot to mention the Cupe3903 sit in that took place in Vari Hall yesterday morning made it on CP24 (not sure about elsewhere). But they had only a few hundred students.

  34. Glendon

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… PROOFREAD this petition before you sign and send it. There are AGAIN spelling and grammar mistakes in it.

  35. And the sit-in continues…

  36. Ridculous

    @ Glendon

    The petition has been PROOFREAD. The offer was there for you to proofread it as well especially in light of the fact you are talented when it comes to spelling and grammar. This is not a jest but rather a recognized fact.

    Unfortunately, time was limited and the most important thing was to get the petition out there.

    Also, to consider is the ORIGINAL MASTER COPY THAT PEOPLE SIGNED IS WHAT HAS TO BE SUBMITTED IN ORDER TO ENSURE THE PETITION PROCESS HAS INTEGRITY.

    BUT, I am took the suggestions and help into consideratin when designing the brief cover letter for the executive committee. Now I have to go because I have to drop it off to the secretary within the next half hour.

    My offer stands if you would like to help please let me know.

  37. Glendon

    The last five weeks have certainly
    compromised the fall semester, and I do not WANT (not what) to have my Winter semester
    compromised as well.

    This is all real life that cannot be put on hold for AN indefinite number of weeks.

  38. D

    The thing is if fall is compromised, Winter will be indirectly affected as well.

  39. Pally Wally

    No student in a Canadian University has EVER lost their year due to a strike.

    Quit the scare mongering.

  40. Sarah

    there’s a first time for everything Pally Wally. Seeing how the strike has gone so far, nothing would surprise me now…. except if we went back to school Jan 5th.

    Just a thought about the individual “IOU’s” to the university / CUPE saying what each of us have lost due to this strike; what if we were to put them in holiday cards? It would be a little …I don’t know if “ironic” is the word I’m looking for, but it would be something that’s for sure.

  41. M

    At what point is the year compromised?
    I’ve heard things here and there that there’s some magic deadline around 80 days?
    Can anyone confirm that with sources?

  42. KJN27

    @YorkStrike2008

    “and I do not what to have my Winter semester
    compromised as well.”

    Not sure if anyone pointed out the typo of “what” needing to be “want”.

  43. student

    However, a semester has been lost before to a strike when considering colleges and not just universities with post-secondary education in Canada.

  44. Sonya

    too late, already looking into transfer options.

  45. generic student

    Isn’t the YFS suppose to be working with the best interests of the students in mind not the union? Nothing but a bunch of powerless figure heads that a portion of my tuition goes into paying for their inactions. Also stop treating the union like it’s the victim here, all parties are at fault.

  46. Andrew

    I wouldn’t put them in holiday cards sarah because it would just be a waste. For something like that to work, you need a large collection of them, not just people mailing them to leaders.

  47. ram

    Hey guys ! there is this latest update on the university’s website that gives information on the present state of affairs.. It seems that union has come down to 20% over two years but is still unrealistic from the university’s view…I am not pasting the link as it would wait for moderation… You can check on the front page of york website:” A message to cupe 3903 members..””

  48. Andrew

    The thing that always bothers me in strikes is when a group starts to bring its demands down. It started at 48%, then went down into the 30%’s, then down to 28% and now down to 20%. So basically, all the time they were asking for 48% and 28% has been a waste of time. As the University has offered 9.25 and moved up to 10%.

    Cupe needs to lower it down to 15% and then they will have some room to move. Or maybe even try 10% over 2 years.

    Though I did kind of find it funny that their demand package was called “Be Realistic: Demand the Impossible”. I think anyone who read their demands before could have said “they are demanding the impossible.

  49. JMac

    TAs will come on here and tell you not to panic and that no Canadian university student has ever lost their year to a strike, but ignore them, because there is ALWAYS a first time. Or are you going to trust CUPE and wait until that magic day in February to find out that you should have acted sooner?

    When January rolls around, undergrad students should look very seriously at this strike as the threat to their pocketbooks and their futures that it is.

    You owe these people nothing. They are costing York undergrads $1500 to $2000 a month each in living expenses and lost wages in April/May! They are taking you for a bunch of spineless patsies. You have nothing to fear by standing up for your rights as students.

    I believe Sarah’s idea of occupying the campus or going there to attend classes could be a very effective tool. I wonder how many students will be back on January 5th though?

    Nonetheless, organizing a very very large group to go onto campus (and right through the picket lines) to demand a settlement should be very effective. And I would suggest that it not simply be a one-shot deal. Contact all of the news agencies and do it again and again. Students will join in as it grows.

    York won’t cave because they can’t. The union won’t cave because they want to “stick it to the man!” (and the undergrads).

    But I believe Sarah and CUPE Doll have the right idea and you have nothing to lose by doing it.

  50. Andrew

    Problem is, and I am just being realistic here. As much as students want to go back to school, getting a large mass of student body to show up at the school is a lot easier said then done. Most people I know who live out of town will not return to school until it starts. Me for example, though I do pay for my apartment still, I would then also have to start buying food again, plus transportation on the TTC, so I am looking at about $300-400 more per month I will be spending. All while I sit in Toronto, trying to save money, bored and basically alone till others return. Or I can stay in Sarnia, where my family provides food for me, I have access to cars and all my friends are here.

    I don’t think it is selfish of me to think of my own well being and that I really don’t want to spend 2-3 weeks if not more alone in Toronto because no one else has returned.

    This is why I said something else needs to be done besides going to campass for a day, but you will find a lot of people will feel the exact same way as I do. I know it looks bad. We want to the school back open, but are not willing to go there. But we do got to think of the cost of returning.

    Plus also, you got to think students will probably pick a day at work making money then a day at the school protesting. If we set a hard date of say Jan 6th to do something, giving people enough time to book a day off, you would still get people saying “I work that day.”

  51. JMac

    You are one person.

    Wait until the new year when students begin to realize their summer jobs are going to be in jeopardy. Once they realize the party is over and that no one cares about their well-being except them, then they may look at CUPE Doll and Sarah’s idea more seriously.

    Little papers with budgets on them or YOUs will help but 2 or 3 thousand kids protesting at York or at the picket line, or both will get the news agencies out. And that is what you want.

    If it doesn’t work for you and 10,000 others, so be it. I am willing to bet there will be a very large number of students ready to do SOMETHING in January to get their lives moving again.

    Any action is better than no action and getting bodies out en masse will draw attention to your grievances.

    More is better.

  52. Sarah

    I understand where you are coming from Andrew, but I also am living at home during this time, a 1.5 hour commute to campus. I’ve also moved to more of a full-time schedule at work and have been working almost every day since the beginning of the strike.
    But no one is going to take us seriously when we say that we want to get back to class if we don’t do something to show them. Ya it sucks being back but if you really want something to happen, why not pack up some food from home and move back to Toronto for a week and maybe see if we can get something done?
    Sure there will be a ton of people saying that they have to work, or they can’t make it in…but what we need is for people to put in that little bit of extra effort. If classes were to resume, I’m sure everyone would find a way to be back in their Toronto “homes” and a way to get their work schedule adjusted. Even if people don’t come to stay all day, if they could just come to show up for an hour or so, I’m sure it would help to make a difference.

  53. blackflame28

    I agree with Andrew. I moved from St. Catharines to go to York. I moved my family to attend York and I quit my full time job. This move cost a lot of money. Now the strike has totally screwed me. (I blame both the University and the Union. Neither have my support at this point)

    My boss offered my full time work back in St. Catharines while the strike is on-going. I have participated in the emails to the MPP and the University officals but I cannot take time off work to participate in rallies or to sit in an empty classroom doing nothing.

    I was counting on the summer so I could work full time and get money for the next year’s rent. This doesn’t look like that will happen so I *need* to work during the strike.

    My point is as much as I want to return to school, for some students it’s not possible for us to return to Toronto to do a pointless protest. While I’m not saying those who can shouldn’t (I actually am saying the opposite) I don’t think it’s fair to say that everyone should drop what they are doing to come back and participate.

  54. Katie

    Remind me again why I chose to even come to this school. I am definitely looking into transfer options.

  55. Andrew

    I’m just being realistic. 50,000 students in this school, 50 show up to a protest at Queen’s park, and I don’t see many more doing a “back to school” protest either. This blog may get a fair amount of people, but it is still only the same people who post and seem active and it is a small amount.

    Ill be honest, I think protesting is a waste of time. I generally hate activist people and believe the people who protest things like save the planet, and animals, etc are wasting their time. Could this put pressure on the school and cupe. Maybe. Will you get enough people to do so? Probably not. Hence why I said you need to find a new method.

    How many people signed the petition?
    How many people on this site are willing to give up a week of work to go?
    How many people in general are willing to give up a week of work to go?
    How many people in facebook groups are willing to go?

    As I said, I am being realistic, and the truth is, we can sit and talk about it, but until something hardcore gets underway, it’s just a bunch of “we should do this” and no one will get behind it. Sorry, as much as I want back into school, I am not wasting my time going to Toronto for only 50-200 people to sit in Vari hall for a “back to school” protest. If you tell me 1000, then I’d consider going. Hell, look at Cupe. Only 200 people of their 3000 show up to picket and many people on this site have called them lazy and think they are a joke. They have 6.67% of their union out on the picket lines. To match that, us students would need about 3000 students. That sends a message.

    It’s all about sending a message. We can all agree on that. But if the government won’t take 50 students at Queen’s park seriously, why would York/cupe? I agree with you, some people need to put their, I guess I’ll call it “actions where their voice is”. If they want to sit online and complain, they should join in. But it is a big number of students, or there is no point. I’ve seen enough protests in my life time to know that small ones get pushed aside, while massive ones get the point across.

  56. Pally Wally

    Things are pretty bad when Tory-touched liberals like McGuinty come off looking like socialists – how many billions do we have to spend on corporate welfare before the general public starts to realize that maybe we should be investing in something else – education perhaps?

    Everyone is complaining about the jobs they have to work in order to pay for school when maybe it is time to ask why we’re paying at all.

  57. anon

    apparently there will be no talks during the holidays this was confirmed by alex bylik on ctv…well everyone im on my way back home have a safe and happy holiday

  58. Cupe Doll

    Wow. Andrew. There’s 50 thousand students @ York? By say Jan 9, 30 thousand will be in and around town? How hard could it be to get 2-3 thousand out? How easy for everyone to pretend as if classes have started and for 1 out of 10 students to come on down?

    You’re right, of course. It would be useless if only 50 students showed. Worse than useless. It would mean York students can’t be bothered standing up for themselves — so why should anyone else bother with them? It would mean every radical ideological group should just go ahead and hijack York more often.

    What if 150 students came? CP24 would cover it. No worse than useless — but not much better, either.

    But 2-3 thousand? Wow. Police cruisers would be there. Every Toronto media outlet would be there. York admin would be there pleading how it’s not their fault. 3903 would be there earnestly chanting how they destroy the education students paid for because students shouldn’t have to pay for education. Dissident York admin, YUFA and 3903 members would be there supporting students. It would be the grassy knell of doom for everything strike related @ York. And totally swell for York’s reputation and York’s undergrad community (such as it isn’t) and every York diploma past present and future. Including yours.

    Here’s the thing, Andrew. So many thousands of York students will be in and around town by then. It is so not incumbent on each student to come down. See? You don’t have to come. But if you actually wanted to help? Why not call a few classmates? Let them know when and where the action is? Have each of your class mates call two more. And so on. See? How easy it could be?

    Why not, Andrew? If you’re against it, just say so. But don’t go pretending it would be so terribly difficult. Students manage getting to campus most any regular day. And this wouldn’t be just any day. It would be the best day. Pretty much ever.

  59. Pally Wally

    “How hard could it be to get 2-3 thousand out?”

    Ask Yorknothostage.com how hard it is to get students out.

    The media reported that the November 5th Drop Fees protest had ~2500 in attendance and that was out of York’s ~50K + UofT’s 40+K, + whatever Ryerson has, not to mention people that came in from out of town, OISE, and the general public/parents etc.
    Although I would say the number was probably at its peak between 4 and 5K, the amount of advertising YFS and everyone else did, including bussing people for free to the site was huge.

    Maybe undergrads really don’t care as long as they get their piece of paper? I mean, isn’t a big part of the strike (when you strip away the posturing by the union) the state of the liberal arts [ie. the places most likely to be affected by the government’s policy initiatives like the ‘centres of excellence’, etc]?

  60. Andrew

    I think you really have no idea what the student body is doing. Do you actually believe students will return if the school is still on strike? I’m going with they are not. You are not getting 30,000 students returning to Toronto if a strike is still going on. They will wait until it is over and then return, much like they would have done in November and December. Yes you get some who live good distances away and have plane tickets, but not 30,000 students worth returning.

    Your second paragraph is pissing me off, and I’m getting tired of this all the time, of people questions the motives of the student body. Let me make this clear. We do not have a union leader. We have an idiot for a “student leader” running the YFS who is supporting CUPE. 50,000 people all over Ontario, Canada and the world. If someone were to say, we can’t be bothered, I’d tell them immediately, “No, it isn’t we can’t, it is more we are already sucking on what cupe members are putting us through.” Why should I have to pay more money to return to school THAT I ALREADY PAY FOR, to protest cupe, so they get their act together? How about instead, you get off this blog, go to your leaders and tell them to do that. Since you love giving us suggestions on what to do, maybe it is time I start giving you suggestions.

    You’re a member of cupe. Seems odd that ‘we can’t be bothered to do something’, and ‘it looks bad on us’, yet if you look in the mirror, you would see your union is guilty of the same thing. 200 people of 3000 on the lines. And you want us to take your union seriously, when only 200 people can bother to show up and protest for their rights? The fact that TA’s and GA’s have gone home disgusts me to no end. If you are not on the lines, you should not get anything out of this deal. PERIOD. So before you start telling us to get motivated a little more, maybe tell your union members that as well. Because as it stands, CUPE just looks like a complete joke right now. And since you care about “reputations”, well you’re a member of that union. Ask yourself how great your reputation is going to look after this.

    So as I have said, 30,000 students are not returning in January. And even if under the remote chance that 10,000 are in and around Toronto, you still have to bank on the fact that they check this blog, or get on the facebook group or in some way hear about what would go on. In the end, it isn’t going to happen. Because I am telling you, there are more people like me, than there are activists willing to spend more money they don’t have to protest a bunch of children. And if you are willing to pay my long distance bill for all the phone calls I will have to make, then I will gladly do it.

    In all of this though, do not question my values of a student. I have been to three post-secondary schools, and changed Universities to come to York to get what I wanted as a student. It has cost me loads of time to get where I am, a large amount of money with every move I make, and lots of relationships with friends. I am here for my education, not to play ideology politics with a bunch of idiots.

    And you know, it seems like the only PRETENDING going on around here, is with your union. Amazing how their demands have gone from 48% to 20% in 5 weeks. I may sound extremely pissed off, and I am rightfully am, but I will be damned if I let a CUPE member tell me what I should be doing with myself right now to get this strike over with faster.

  61. Cupe Doll

    Andrew, I have no idea what’s given you the idea that I’m supporting 3903 in *anything*. Yes, it’s my local — but I don’t have any choice about that. Not so long as I want to teach at York. So here I’m giving my best shot to make something up for all the lost time and damage done to undergraduate students by 3903 and York. Because I love teaching — and even if I didn’t, damaging students’ education this way is despicable and obscene. And whether you want to believe it or not, what some of your fellow students and I have been suggesting would really work.

    Only 10000 students will be in and around Toronto in January? Andrew, most York students live within commuting distance. But hey — don’t go to any trouble making contact with other students on my behalf. Ok? Don’t do it for me. Don’t go doing anything for me. Whatever you do — do or don’t do it for you. Please.

    If you undergrads aren’t motivated standing up for yourselves then it’s a total waste of time me caring how you’ve been trampled. There’s no way I’m going to care about your rights more than you do. Until and unless you guys can get halfway enthusiastic in your own behalf — I’m out’ta here.

  62. Another student

    In Andrew’s defence, seems to me the last rally didn’t go so well.
    Just sayin’…

  63. Ridculous

    @ Andrew
    RE: “How many people signed the petition?”
    It actually went very well because I work too. I really only collected signatures on Monday for the senate executive and my online petition was active Monday @ 10am. So, in a space of approx. 24 hours I got a total of 180 signatures (100 on line and 80 signed in person). I thought that was pretty good and emphasized the 24 hr time frame in my cover letter to the senate.

    RE: Cupe having 3000 members and only 200 on the picket lines…lets not forget those 200 are also getting paid for being on those picket lines. (So, basically, I agree with it is very hard to get people out on anything to do with this strike. Also, couple that with the fact alot of students are afraid of doing anything they are afraid the prof or future profs will hold it against them…the situation is very sad)

  64. Has anyone here actually been to York since the strike began? The library is full almost everyday. It is not like students don’t show up at York, it is just that they are busy doing work.

  65. Ridculous

    @YorkIsAwsome

    I have been to York a lot, it is quieter this week because I think a lot of people are starting their Christmas break earlier but this is very true especially about the library.

  66. testser

    It is very easy to get 1000 out. We just need advertising, money, buses, food and leaders.

    I am sure we can find some leaders to take charge, but undergrads do not have any resources to make things happen. Our union, YFS, does, but they support CUPE. That is why Hamid Osman will be loosing his job when school starts.

    People have asked him to resign….I hope he doesn’t so that he can be humiliated by being impeached.

  67. JMac

    Wow Andrew I am surprised at your response to CUPE Doll. A union member, in any union, is much like a student at any school. As individuals they have zero power. A union like 3903 isn’t really controlled by those 200 picketers, or even those executive members. The strings are pulled by someone elsewhere. Why is that? Apathy of course.

    Apathetic members complain about the union when things don’t go right and patiently, or impatiently, wait for things to get resolved. Less apathetic members go to the meetings but they usually get intimidated by the hardliners or get shouted down. And even when they are allowed to speak, they are paid lip service by the executive anyway. There aren’t enough in opposition to change the course set by the union hierarchy anyway.

    Common words uttered by union members? “Man, I hope THEY get this thing resolved soon!”

    That’s the same THEY that students are hoping get this thing resolved for them!

    You want the strike to end I assume but the only way you think it will end is if apathetic students, who won’t show up at a gathering on campus as Sarah and CUPE Doll suggested, write something on little pieces of paper and pile them up. Otherwise you think protests are useless and you hate protesters. And you don’t think e-mailing MPPs will work either.

    You write BIG LONG essays on here that seem to be trying to sway people away from doing ANYTHING to help themselves in this mess.

    Don’t forget that students were very nervous about the prospect of being forced to go back to class for those 2 or 3 weeks that would normally have been exam time. They didn’t feel they deserved to be screwed again in this. Some wanted to get back to class no matter when but others just needed that time off.

    The tone will be different in January. Students are going to start realizing the implications of not getting back to class until mid February or whenever that magic date is. Students are going to start realizing that no one is in any hurry to resolve this dispute and that no one really gives a shit about each student losing thousands of dollars each in living expenses and lost future income.

    The only thing that matters to York is that they don’t cave in to what they feel are unrealistic demands and the only thing that matters to the union is bringing down those neo-Liberal bastards!

    Students getting together and marching to campus en masse is an idea worth trying whether you think it is or not. There is absolutely nothing to lose! But wait, someone might say “what will it look like if only 50 people show up?” The answer is simple, it will look exactly the way it does now and that is that students could care less about their futures. They will end up looking like they are waiting for someone else to come along and solve their problems for them.

    With 50,000 students at York and only about 2,500 residence spots I have a suspicion that tens of thousands of students are within commuting distance of the school. I am sure there will be some decent numbers for this type of protest. And if not?

    You have absolutely nothing to lose.

  68. testser

    I’ve been to the library 2-3x per week. There are people there, and also scattered around campus.

  69. testser

    like I said, everyday starting on the 5th, I will be on campus. I will visit Vari Hall, or where ever people plan to protest. If no one is there, they I will just go to the library. IF people are protesting, then I will join in.

    But when we protest, we should be clear that we want a resolution. I will not be part of anti action that supports CUPE3903.

  70. Cupe Doll

    So most days there’s enough students already there @York campus? lmao.

    All the discouragement on here just might be from CUPE 3903 e-pickets — not real undergrads.

  71. Ridculous

    @Cupedoll

    Some of it may be from cupe members BUT since I was involved in helping organize the rally and did the petition. The petition really gave me a chance to talk to a lot of students a lot of them are concerned and they do care but they are also AFRAID of reppraisals.

    Also, getting organized and coordinated is difficult this is not meant as discouragement but simply the truth. I had several offers to help with the petition but in the end only 1 other person posted, several people provided input and only myself actually walked around and got signatures. BUT

  72. Cupe Doll

    @JMac — well said.

  73. ram

    From the above comments i am forced to think as if a Jan 5 restart for classes is 100 % impossible. Is this the underlying reason for the plans to organize the big event? If so, I am ready to participate.. I am sure i can bring at least some tens of people..
    But should i just accept that Classes are not starting the first week of Jan?

  74. Ridculous

    (Oops hit enter by accident…so continuing here)

    I have comitment to get signatures come January. I’ve also dealt with peoplen actively telling those who want to help not to get involved. Why? I don’t know…I think fear of reppraisal.

    So, I continuously emphasize this in not anti-strike or pro-strike. Overall, I have gotten good response form the senate (whether they do anything is another story) and graduate students…it is the one thing people can agree on and that is the academic concerns.

    I hope students start getting fed up..and a protest can be organized for the new year. I would participate but come January I will focus my energies on job and school work (I plan on just completing all my assignments and petition changes on school resumes).

  75. Cupe Doll

    @Ridculous

    Just throw a huge party for all on campus man.. byo everything… can’t undergrads still party? Have the machines taken over completely?

  76. TinyXIII

    I agree with the idea of mass students just going on campus in January. If we act like there is no strike and just go to campus anyway, work on our work, hang out, party, whatever it is, it’ll be a huge push on everyone showing that the students want to be there.

    But I get the fact that some students do need to commute long distances to get to the campus, and need to work to support themselves. But a huge showing of students regularly on campus could possibly do some good, whether it pressures the union, York, or the government, as long as we show we really do care.
    It’s just getting students to not give up their own voices, and to try getting off their ass’s to do something about it.

    Count me in.

  77. Ridculous

    That was my original idea…make the sit in a fund raiser or a food drive..have end it with a dance or something.

    I got some feedback this morning. Apparently food4thought is open (even though there voice message states otherwise or to contact YFS office during the strike). One the petition’s request was to use an existing service with help from York admin. Hopefully, now that it has been clarified the Food4though is open maybe they will be willing to help with such an initiative. If not I will got to the North York Foodbank and find out how to get a permit.

    I will update the rest of the new under “support petition post”.

  78. tester

    Fear of reprisal is big for me. I cannot afford any shitty marks, and am trying for a B+/A average.

    I’d rather loose the year then get a low grade for voicing my opinion.

    And I can live with loosing the year so that CUPE looses the year too. Plus, IF we loose the year, this is will be lesson for the government to intervene next time (2010 and later)

  79. Sarah

    It actually didn’t even cross my mind that there would still be so many people in the Library each day.
    Well, if someone is up to it a large organization would be great I think, if not, I’ll be on campus begining January 5th, just as if we were going back to classes. Yes, I’ll still be working my part-time job, because I would be doing that anyways.
    And yes, it might cost a bit of extra money, I’ll have to be buying bus tickets again, spending at least an hour on the bus to and from the school…but its a rhythm that I for one have completely lost touch with in the last month and a half, and if all this serves is to ease my own mind, get myself back into a rhythm that I’m used to then so be it.
    But if people would like to join, maybe, just maybe, we could do something amazing.

    (just so you know I’m not on either side of this strike, I’m just your average student who has been royally screwed over by ALL of this, realizing that because of the messed up semesters I will now have to return to York for a 6th year to finish my degrees, honors psychology and french as well as a B.Ed., and would really just like to get back to the books so I can have SOME sort of summer to make money for the next year. I also miss my high school students that I had the privilege of teaching for September and October, as we education students are banned from our host schools during the strike. Not only do we lose out on our own education, but we’re losing out on helping future generations and gaining valuable practical experience).

  80. ram

    I do not know if you all know this option or not.. In 2000-2001 strike The university gave a pass/fail option without grade for the courses affected by the strike.. This is a good option as the grade will not be visible on the transcript yet we can have the credits counted.. they will not be counted towards the GPA. When we apply for masters, we can explain to the institution about the reason behind that option.. Hope they give the same one this year too if at all the situation gets worsened

  81. An observation

    @Andrew:

    While I totally empathize that you are very frustrated with CUPE, I don’t understand your misplaced vitriol against Cupe Doll. She is merely trying to give students viable options for action, rather than sitting back and letting this strike eat you alive.

    For the record, each Union member is an individual, and many (such as myself) voted against the strike; but nonetheless, I have been forced to withdraw my services. I have not taken part in any picketing activity because my personal integrity prevents me from supporting a cause that has caused such irretrievable damage to my students. In making this decision, I came to terms with not making any income at all during the duration of the strike.

    As a contract faculty member, I accepted the terms of my contract when I signed it in September, and my personal commitment remains with the best interests of my students. I still believe that the contract that the Undergraduate student holds with the University should be honoured above all others.

    Unfortunately, with financial pressures being what they are, I am also beginning to lose faith that this battle will be resolved in a judicious manner in the New Year. As much as I adore my job and my students, I may have to look for permanent work in the New Year, which would prevent me from returning to my classes. That upsets me terribly because I worry that my 1st year students (through no fault of their own, or mine) will be displaced even more when they may have to deal with a new Tutorial Instructor.

    Cupe Doll, I respect your commitment to this group, and I for one, really appreciate your candor and support to all the students.

  82. Cupe Doll

    @An observation,

    Nicely put — and thank you. Very sorry to hear regarding your financial pressures. Like you, I also had thoughts of more reliable employment elsewhere cross my mind — and, also like you, I hate even thinking about it.

  83. TinyXIII

    Sarah

    RE: “and if all this serves is to ease my own mind, get myself back into a rhythm that I’m used to then so be it.”

    I hear you. The complete frustration of a routine being messed up is very taxing on the mind. That was something I’ve been wanting to do for a while, and I did at first, but seeing no end in sight, I started working more, picking up shifts from people at work.
    But I’m still feeling very disoriented by all of this, like something is missing and I’m forgetting something. So, I’ll be joining you in January back on campus regularly.

  84. Disappointed

    hey all..
    The routine being messed up actually got me going to school a while ago.. I go occasionally to York to review (im forgetting everything!) and catch up .. and to confirm, ppl still show up at campus and the library. I’d like to help out with this initiative. And yeah, there are a LOT of commuters. I could probably drag some friends over too. Sarah, you want to make a facebook group? And I can design flyers or something.
    Let’s be optimistic. We can SO do it!

  85. Sarah

    alrighty group is up.

    http://www.facebook.com/groups/create.php?success=1&customize=&gid=41197226242#/group.php?gid=41197226242

    If anyone can think of a better slogan or description please don’t hesitate to message me on facebook and let me know (I tried but sometimes I’m not super creative haha). Invite whoever you can think of, and anyone wanting to be an admin just let me know.

  86. Cupe Doll

    Wow. Nicely done and clearly heartfelt. Will you post the link at the latest thread here?

  87. Ridculous

    @ Sarah some of us are not on facebook so once you are organized let yorkstrike2008 and he will post the details so that if we can (could be working) we will participate.

  88. lisa

    Sarah,

    good idea of having a large group of students go to York if classes are not back then. i really hope we’re back by jan 5. where do you think students should meet at york?

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