Where the Negotiations are(n’t)

Here is the latest CUPE release. It is basically a review of CUPE’s demands and where they stand in regards to the University’s movement on them.

 

3903-why-we-strike4

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107 responses to “Where the Negotiations are(n’t)

  1. so basically, they are not going to sit to negotiate York U admin’s latest offer…

  2. Wow that’s pretty sad that there are about 3 or 4 things that have been agreed upon out of that whole chart….Based on this, they really are far apart.

  3. Jeff

    @Student

    York doesnt have a latest offer as far as I understand it. The document they recently posted is what they offered when they last met with CUPE.

  4. Laura

    Don’t care, don’t care, don’t care.

    Back to work legislation, please. I’m tired of this shit.

  5. Interesting yet discouraging.

  6. yorkstrike2008

    Yep. It sucks. I am betting the UNi isgoing to wait till -25 January temps and call a forced ratification.

  7. Good call yorkstrike2008 … it is all a game… tear, tear

  8. Is everything still in the works for thurs?

  9. B

    @yorkstrike – can you clarify the wait till january 25th comment. What’s significant about that day?

  10. I think yorkstrike2008 means minus 25 degree weather … thats how i took it anyway

  11. B

    woops. got it now.

  12. EV

    Can anybody post the source of the original link? I can’t seem to find it on the cupe site…

  13. Jimmy

    To the comment about the cold 😀

    Here is what the university is thinking 🙂

    “Hang out our banners on the outward walls;
    The cry is still ‘They come:’ our castle’s strength
    Will laugh a siege to scorn: here let them lie
    Till famine (bills they need to pay) and the ague (freezing cold January weather) eat them up…”

    Heh Macbeth FTW 😀

  14. Yushky

    I keep hearing back-to-work legislation isn’t going to happen or help us in the slightest…does anyone know if this is going to be the case? I predict a January settlement between the two sides. Besides who wants to go back to school now any ways being this close to Christmas.

  15. Curious Yorkie

    Hello All,

    I had stopped coming to the site/checking strike updates beause nothing seems to be happening. I dont think CUPE will agree to this latest proposal by York. Like many others have said here, it seems as if this is the offer that York had put forward during their last set of negotiations with the Union, but is now publishing it to make themselves look good.
    I doubt that classes would start this month.

  16. jk12

    Obviously the two sides are so far apart – look at what the union is asking for!! There are so many ridiulous proposals that should not be keeping us out of class – i.e. $115 THOUSAND for childcare – are you kidding me?! That is straight up greedy.
    If the Union thinks it will have any support should this strike go into January, they are dead wrong!
    They need to prioritize and take some sort of budegtary hit to end this conflict. That being said, the University will need to budge on the real issues – contract faculty benefits and promotions.
    Enough of these greedy TAs keeping us out of class!
    À jeudi! (See you all Thursday I hope)

  17. ram

    hehe @ curious yorkie
    We are definitely not doubtful (but sure) that the classes will not start this month but instead, we are filled with doubts whether the classes would even start on the Jan 5th.

  18. yorkstrike2008

    Everything is still good for Thursday Confused. You coming?

  19. Curious Yorkie

    What time thursday and where? I’ll try to make it! 🙂

  20. Andrew

    As I have said before, I have the over/under set at February 1st. If anyone wants in the pool just let me know! 😀

    I’m taking the over. I have a feeling I’ll be watching the Super Bowl with my dad and brother this year.

  21. leafer

    I’m switching schools york fucking BLOWS

  22. Stef

    I wish that the terms of the union’s demands vs. the university’s offerings were in the same unit of measurement. How are we supposed to understand the comparison between “$3,500” on the union’s side and “$105,000 for three years” on the university’s? If this was a grade nine math class, the union would get a big, red, X next to that chart.

    If you (the union) want people to sympathize with your needs as you put 50, 000 students out of school, at least have the decency to explain to us in clear terms what you want and need.
    PS – A graffitied star does not qualify as clear terms. Nor do cartoons. I really want to be on your side – I do. Make it possible.

  23. RN3rdYear

    @ Andrew,

    I doubt this strike will go to Feb, as that would be a cancellation of the whole academic year.

    As printed elsewhere on this blog, if the strike goes beyond the 12-week mark (Jan 28th/09), the school year is considered to be cancelled. That means that York and Cupe 3903 have 3 weeks upon resumption of classes in Jan to re-start negotiations and come to an agreement.

    I am interested to see how things will work out in the new year, seeing that no one seems to be talking at present or willing to budge on their offer/demands.

    I have my fingers crossed that UFV will accept my application to their Nursing program so I can tell York U to stuff it.

    A very dissapointed 3rd year BScN student

  24. Andrei MR

    Hi, everyone. I’m a “rank-and-file” 3903 member. I just wanted to clarify that the “Why We Strike” PDF was released just before the Administration posted the latest offer. So, it should not be seen as a “response” to it.

    My understanding of 3903’s position is as follows. We think it’s odd that the university has communicated the current offer as a press release instead of directly to the union.

    3903 has been regularly changing its demands (bringing it down, to be honest, to address Administration concerns) and then asking the Administration (via the Mediator) to discuss them at a negotiation, which they always decline. So, they could have easily shown it to us then.

    We think this is a sign that a forced ratification vote is about to happen; i.e. next week.

  25. Disillusioned

    One of my TAs emailed this morning to say she has resigned. I guess some of the CUPE people feel caught in the middle, too. So now when we do return to class we will have a new TA who doesn’t know any of us….we’ll be starting at square one. And I’m sure this is just one of many who won’t be returning to their post as they must be just as sick of this as we are.

  26. @Disillusioned

    That happened to me one year. Just be sure to complain about any disadvantages this leaves you with.

  27. @ yorkstrike2008

    I hope to make it but I’m still a little confused (hehe) on where this is on campus … if I’m facing Vari Hall which direction is it?

  28. NotHostage

    Is it just me or is it interesting that the University continues to say they care about the students future but were the ones that locked us out and continue to demand binding arbitration. Also why do we continue to be informed on the status of the strike and talks by the union and not the university. Shouldn’t it be the universitys responsibility to inform thier customers AKA students. The university continues to demand binding arbitration knowing very well the union will not accept it as they want a 2 year contract so all i have to say is GO BACK TO THE TABLE……. IM SO SICK OF IT TAKING A WEEK TO AGREE TO GO AND BARGAIN. IT SHOULD TAKE A WEEK TO AGREE SITTING AT THE TABLE WITH A UNION NOT SITTING AT A TABLE TALKING ABOUT GOING TO THE TABLE TO NEGOTIATE……..

  29. Jeff

    York’s reputation (not that it was ever that great to begin with) has gone to the dump. I feel sorry for everyone 😦

  30. Ridculous

    Confused,

    Not yorkstrike2008 but I did post a map of the campus yesterday in the discussion of “Are you coming to the rally the seante“. The post shows the time of 6:40 am. It is building 42 so if you walk out of Vari Hall towards the fountain it is on the very last building on the South Side accross the road next to Student Client Services.

  31. Nellyli

    @ram:
    Is this” no class in Dec” a confirmed answer? Sorry for asking this question all the time, is just I need to work and already told my boss that I will be working there during Dec. So can’t really go back to class anyway if class get resumed in Dec. Thank you again.

  32. Woot

    No Classes 100% in December!

  33. F-Ed Up

    @Nellyli

    I’m not ram but I can tell you that the latest update from the senate indicates that, if there somehow is school in Dec (which is extremely unlikely to happen at this point unless everyone has a magical “Scrooge” moment, like, tomorrow, and then all of that bureaurcratic business that comes afterwards moves miraculously quickly) professors MUST make accomodations for students who have other plans based on the original exam schedule.

    If it’s any consolation, I have also committed to a full-time job for the month of Decemeber. I fully believe that there is no way we will be returning before Jan 5. I just fear that it is unlikely, without any headway being made before the holidays, that we will be back until a few weeks after that date.

  34. Nellyli

    thx guys. I have the same fear too. But first thing first, I need to commit to this job 100% once I made promise to my boss, also I need money. Sadly, but true!!!
    Still, good luck with all of you!!!

  35. Shal

    Everyone has been talking about whether or not there will be school in December, and from what I’ve been reading it is highly unlikely. My concern is at what point in January school will resume? Does anyone have any ideas. How long after the university and the union come to a negotiation do classes resume?

  36. Hey. What makes you people think school won’t start till January. Although I do want school to start ASAP, it will be nice if I could get a job for December and earn some money rather than go to school for two weeks and then get a break. Are you guys really sure about school starting in January instead of December. Please let me know.

    Thanks.

  37. Ridculous

    I think we should petition the senate to restart classes even if the strike is still going on eg. deadline Jan 12. This gives them time to resolve it.

    If I have time later I may set up an online petition page on facebook.

  38. F-Ed Up

    @ Rdculous

    I don’t think it is likely that they will restart classes before the strike ends. YUFA is officially in support of CUPE: therefore there are no profs to hold those classes, except for those who are willing to go against their own union by crossing the picket line (a picket line also made up of colleagues). Though I’m guessing that there are a few profs out there who won’t have a problem with this, the majority likely will.

  39. Peter

    is it actually true that if the strike surpasses 12 weeks, the university will shut down?

  40. Cassa

    I’m really fed up with this strike nonsense. I may not understand much about these contract negotiations, but I doubt this strike is really benefitting anyone right now. Are strikers even paid during this time? If not, how is that fair to the TAs that didn’t agree to this in the first place? And it goes without saying that there’s no benefit for the students either, who are being shafted by both sides equally in my opinion. As far as I’m concerned, at times like this when many people are losing their jobs and having trouble making ends meet, it is not the time to be striking over unreasonable pay increases or playing with people’s education, which costs enough as it is. It’s a shame that the best interests of the students have to be put on the back burner for this kind of selfishness.

  41. Ridculous

    @ Fedup

    It is unlikely but as students we shouldn’t take sides and our position should simply be we want to be back in class (in my opinion).

  42. Ridculous

    @ All

    Just got a great response from most businesses in York lanes who actually are displaying the flyer for me. Due to cost I will modify and hand out black and white ones from now on.

    But the campus has a lot of students just hanging around. So, I hopeful.

  43. testing

    Peter,
    that is a good question about the strike suprassing 12 weeks.

    To whoever answers, please provide a link

  44. RN3rdYear

    @ testing

    The senate’s website outlines their P&P regarding labour disruption (http://www.yorku.ca/secretariat/policies/document.php?document=70)

    Please see the following:
    “3.3.4.6) If a Disruption continues to a point where no feasible remedy consistent with the principle of academic integrity is available, then, Senate Executive Committee shall after consultation recommend to Senate that credit not be given for the course(s)”

    Although York has not released how they determine the point where no feasible remedy is, the do state: “The Senate Executive Committee may also reduce the length of term by not more than 7 days in the case of half courses and by not more than 14 days in the case of full-year courses”. It is fair to say, that at this point in time, we have missed enough of the term, and are already spilling our make-up time/lectures, and examination period into the Winter term.

    We have 4 weeks of missed lectures to make up, and 2-3 weeks of exams to make up. Even with a condensed exam schedule AND cancellation of the spring reading week, we are still looking at starting the Winter term in the beginning of Feb at the earliest if we go back to class the first week of Jan.

    So folks…the question is…how long can we REALLY wait for the academic year to be saved? For some students, like myself, I require the clinical hours in the winter term for my RN license. The Senate/York U have to ensure academic integrity of the credits given…so if this strike goes on too long, we certainly will not meet the requirements to get the credits.

    In closing, if the senate does not feel that there is any feasible remedity that keeps with ensuring academic integrity, NO CREDITS will be issued…and the year is lost.

  45. RN3rdYear

    @ testing

    The senate’s website outlines their P&P regarding labour disruption (http://www.yorku.ca/secretariat/policies/document.php?document=70)

    Please see the following:
    “3.3.4.6) If a Disruption continues to a point where no feasible remedy consistent with the principle of academic integrity is available, then, Senate Executive Committee shall after consultation recommend to Senate that credit not be given for the course(s)”

    Although York has not released how they determine the point where no feasible remedy is, the do state: “The Senate Executive Committee may also reduce the length of term by not more than 7 days in the case of half courses and by not more than 14 days in the case of full-year courses”. It is fair to say, that at this point in time, we have missed enough of the term, and are already spilling our make-up time/lectures, and examination period into the Winter term.

    We have 4 weeks of missed lectures to make up, and 2-3 weeks of exams to make up. Even with a condensed exam schedule AND cancellation of the spring reading week, we are still looking at starting the Winter term in the beginning of Feb at the earliest if we go back to class the first week of Jan.

    So folks…the question is…how long can we REALLY wait for the academic year to be saved? For some students, like myself, I require the clinical hours in the winter term for my RN license. The Senate/York U have to ensure academic integrity of the credits given…so if this strike goes on too long, we certainly will not meet the requirements to get the credits.

    In closing, if the senate does not feel that there is any feasible remedity that keeps with ensuring academic integrity, NO CREDITS will be issued…and the year is lost.

  46. alien baby

    @ Yorkstrike 2008

    You are not only an organizing voice for undergrads, but 5 weeks in, have emerged as the most objective news outlet covering this strike in any detail. You might consider requesting media credentials from CUPE in order to observe the GMMs and report back to your readers. Journalists are not always allowed full access to these private meetings, but at this point, they might go for it, if just to prove that they’re not killing chickens and dancing naked at them. This blog demonstrates a legitimate journalistic record now, and it might serve your readers’ interests, if you’re up for it.

  47. F-Ed Up

    @ Ridculous

    I would definitely agree with not taking sides… however, unfortunately due to politics and all of that junk… asking to return while the strike is still in session is seen as an anti-union sentiment. Not saying that it’s right, just that this is how it is perceived, unfortunately. But I think it is good to express the desire to return to class… and if you feel that asking for a return to school before the end of the strike is something that should be brought up on Thursday then I agree that you should bring that up!

    @ yorkstrike2008 – On the subject of perception:

    I am really struggling with my decision to come on Thursday. While I really want to attend, I have heard this rally mentioned in other places on the interweb as an anti-strike rally. Which I guess it is, but not in the sense that it is anti-strikes-in-general, or anti-union, etc. But I am beginning to become worried that it may be framed as such by others, and if so, I don’t think I can attend, given that I’m a BEd student… the last thing I would want is to be in the background of a photo with the caption “York Students Rally Against CUPE Strike” or something else which can be easily misconstrued. I know it might sound stupid… but I’m really torn now on what to do.

  48. Maria

    If no credits are issued and the year is lost.. what happens next? will there atleast be a winter term? a summer term?? will we get our money back?

    somebody explain please..

  49. RN3rdYear

    @ Maria,

    No one has the ability to answer that…the senate has not made a statement

  50. RN3rdYear

    @ Maria,

    Also…it is my understanding that the wording of York’s policies (as per an earlier post in this website)…is such that they are no obligated to refund money related to labour disruptions.

    I doubt that would stand up in real life…what LEGITIMATE business takes money for a service, then keeps it after not providing the service.

    Stop panicing and think about what you’re asking.

  51. ram

    Today there has been a senate statement in york website.. i am not posting the link as it will take long time just waiting for moderation.. so just check “senate updates” in the york website titled as “DECEMBER ACADEMIC ACTIVITIES”…
    Looking at that there is a possibility that classes could resume OF ONLY a settlement is ratified BEFORE / ON december 15.. So What is the probability the strike could end on / before 15 dec?

  52. F-Ed Up

    @ RN3rdYear

    “what LEGITIMATE business takes money for a service, then keeps it after not providing the service”

    …insurance? lol sorry couldn’t resisit

  53. RN3rdYear

    Ram…sorry…but you are a very excitable person. You realize that is only 4 buisness days from now right?

    Think about your questions before you spaz out and post questions.

    The two sides arent even negotiating right now…so how can ratification occur?

    School will resume in Jan

  54. Ridculous

    @Fedup

    I completely disagree. The last strike in 2000/2001 classes were held anyways. So, it is NOT an antistrike sentiment. It is our right as students to have classes.

    Perhaps you can afford to wait around and worry about perfect ideologies but I for one don’t care York and Cupe can be considered antistudent at this point. We are irrelevant to them so why should they be relevant to us?

  55. Maria

    how are they not obliged to provide refunds?

    what about all the students who are barely making tuition payments? so i basically threw away $5000 this year?

    i’m guessing there will be some class action law suits taking place if this does not get resolved properly

  56. Ridculous

    @Fedup I would also like to draw your attention to this:

    “Please note: There are separate remediation plans for Osgoode Hall Law School and incoming or outgoing exchange students of Schulich School of Business. For detailed information on those remediation plans, visit My Osgoode Web site or contact Schulich’s Student Services and International Relations.”

    It’s taken from the York’s website page on Academic Remediation. Do you consider Oosgoode and Shulich’s internatin students anti-strikers?

    It is my view if they can negotiate special consideration other may as well such as graduating students, students missing internships, etc.

    This is why approaching the senate is so crucial. That is how the law students and business students got back in class.

    Anyhow I am tired and want to get out there and advertise more for the rally because I believe in it.

  57. F-Ed Up

    @ Ridculous

    I didn’t say I agreed with that notion… in fact I said “Not saying that it’s right, just that this is how it is perceived, unfortunately. But I think it is good to express the desire to return to class… and if you feel that asking for a return to school before the end of the strike is something that should be brought up on Thursday then I agree that you should bring that up!”

    I think that others should go for this, but that I, personally, cannot be doing something that, in the wider community of organized labour, will be perceived as anti-union.

    And I cannot afford to wait around for anything. In fact, with every day that this strike continues, it becomes less and less likely that I will be able to secure a teaching position for September 2009. My concern is being publicly associated with something that could very well be perceived as anti-union (though I acknowledged in my post that I do not agree with this perception) would only further injur my prospects for employment next year.

    For the third time: I think that if you see this as an important thing to fight for, you should fight for it.

  58. Ridculous

    @ Fedup

    Ahhh! I got you, you have future concerns…

    @Ram and @All

    I have copied and pasted the lates senate update:
    Executive Committee of Senate
    ACADEMIC ACTIVITIES IN DECEMBER 2008
    The Executive Committee of Senate advises that only if it is in a position to declare a formal end to the disruption of academic activities no later than Monday, December 15 could classes resume in December. Unless a ratified settlement results in an end to the disruption by December 15, there will not be sufficient time to issue a notice of resumption and to conduct even a limited number of make up classes for courses that have been suspended.
    Please take note of the following additional relevant information:

    If Senate declares an end to the disruption on or before December 15, priority will be given to scheduling make up classes for courses that normally meet on Mondays, Tuesdays and Thursdays.

    No classes or examinations will be held on December 20, 21, 22 and 23 regardless of when the disruption might conclude.

    Under normal circumstances the Winter term would have begun on January 5, 2009. As a result of the disruption, and with specified exceptions, the Winter term for courses that have been suspended will start immediately following the Fall term remediation period.
    — December 9, 2008

  59. F-Ed Up

    @ Everyone:

    For the record I also believe in the rally, too.

    Again, I made it clear that the perception was not one that I subscribed to. Nor did I discourage anyone from attending the rally. I just stated that due to the nature of the career I am heading into I am not sure what to do in terms of attending the rally or not.

    I really wish people would read posts carefully and not always assume that the poster is always angry, argumentative, or in complete disagreement with the person they are responding to. This defensiveness (though I fully understand the cause of it) cannot help anyone, and it is not productive.

  60. F-Ed Up

    @ Ridculous

    Seems we were posting on the same time. Glad we’re now on the same page… haha, page.

  61. Andrei MR
    December 9, 2008 at 3:10 am
    Hi, everyone. I’m a “rank-and-file” 3903 member. I just wanted to clarify that the “Why We Strike” PDF was released just before the Administration posted the latest offer. So, it should not be seen as a “response” to it.

    My understanding of 3903’s position is as follows. We think it’s odd that the university has communicated the current offer as a press release instead of directly to the union.

    3903 has been regularly changing its demands (bringing it down, to be honest, to address Administration concerns) and then asking the Administration (via the Mediator) to discuss them at a negotiation, which they always decline. So, they could have easily shown it to us then.

    We think this is a sign that a forced ratification vote is about to happen; i.e. next week.”

    So what exactly does this forced ratification mean? I’m not sure so I’m opening it up to anyone who knows more about this…

  62. RN3rdYear

    @ Maria.

    Some of us have already looked at that through the Osgoode students…I know I certainly would be onboard with such a movement…but its my understanding that it a waste of time. I feel the same as you – as I work hard for the money I make and certainly am not excited with the thought of loosing a year’s worth of tuition money.

    Good luck in finding a lawyer that will start a class action lawsuit

  63. colin

    @ridculous
    I sympathize with your frustration, but wanted to point out that since CUPE does more than half the teaching on campus, classes can’t resume entirely without CUPE returning to work with a new (and fair) contract.

    @jk12
    “$115 THOUSAND for childcare – are you kidding me?! That is straight up greedy.”
    I don’t have any numbers (though I could get them if anyone’s interested) on how many CUPE workers have children.
    However, if you divide 115000 by the number of members, you’re looking at a really small number (about 35 dollars?). Of course, not every member has children, but it’s important to put these numbers in perspective.

  64. Loic Ransom

    @All unfortunate students in t-o

    As I’ve already been assured that next semester is screwed for me (I’m a full time seasonal forest fire fighter, and a month push back isn’t feasible) I can honestly tell you that when a union is demanding 28% over two years and the university is offering 10%, you’re not likely looking at a resolution anytime soon. If I were any students at york right now I would consider two courses of action. 1) Drop out and work for the year, as not working and risking the possibility of full cancellations would possibly put you in debt for what is essentially nothing. 2) transfer. I was at york in 2001, the year after the last strike. During the course of my time at york, the union threatened to strike twice… once coming very close. That means between 2000 and 2008, the university faced a strike twice and was close to striking another two times. I’m stuck with the school as i’ve already invested in it (unfortunately) but you have the opportunity to transfer to a school that at least offers the security of mind that its union won’t threaten to strike every other year.

    In addition, to anyone who who is wondering as to the cancellation of the full school year. There is a precendence for this at york. In 2000 they shut down the entire school year when the strike went into february. Don’t fool yourself into thinking that the university isn’t willing to let its students suffer so that it can keep count of some pennies. It really doesn’t care about its students.

    Personally, I think both sides are rediculous in this current situation. I won’t take sides because neither are worth putting my lot in with. For starters… what union is rediculous enough at this point in time to make such heavy economic demands. We’re facing a recession going into the holidays; do they honestly think they’re demands are going to be met? As far as the university is concerned; i’ve never heard of another post-secondary institution that faces this many strikes in so few years. That tells me that somewhere along the lines, the university has seriously skewed its management of personnel. That its biggest priority- investment from students, seems to be of such low value to them baffels the mind. Someone needs to audit this school and demand provincially controlled remanagement. Otherwise I think its about time this school has its public funding removed. What a joke.

  65. flushafleshfarm

    From what I understand, the University can force the union to vote on an offer without any further negotiation. The catch is that they can only do it once. This means that York would be out of moves if the union were to vote it down.

    The timing of this, if it is indeed what York is after, seems strange. I think the Union has enough fight left in them that it could very well fail. It would make more sense to wait until sometime in January in hopes that CUPE members will become desperate and tired of picketing. It is approaching a very cozy time of year. I’d think most members would be happy to sit it out for the rest of the week.

    Forced rat right now would seem rushed. If it is their plan, they’ll likely do it next week at the earliest in hopes that CUPE 3093 believes going back in January will have been a good run.

    I fear that this has gone farther than both sides had intended and may turn into the real showdown that was predicted for 2010.

  66. Maria

    How is getting the money you worked so hard for a waste of time?

  67. RN3rdYear

    I doubt a forced ratification vote would do any good to York next week because after Dec 15th the term is on hold until the beginning of Jan.

    I agree with flushafleshfarm – it is a one-shot wild card that is best used when they have more of a chance to get what they want.

  68. RN3rdYear

    Its not a waste of time if it is fruitful to get it back…quite honestly, I have an extremely well paying job…and spending time on fighting with policies is not something i’m interested in doing.

    But if there was a class action that had good potential and could work through the loop holes arose…i would be in support.

  69. Ahhh i understand now 🙂

    thanks guys

  70. An observation

    @elle

    The University can force a ratification vote to the Union membership based on the most recent offer. It is a “one chance” only situation which means if it fails, the strike continues. Timing is very important here…if it is too soon, it is more likely to be rejected. It all depends on how long the Union membership is willing to stay out, but I think you are right; it does look like the University is postering to make an announcement on forced ratification.

  71. Maria

    must be nice having an extremely well paying job.. unfortunetly not every york student can easily throw away a year’s tuition…

    i cant afford loosing this much money because of unions going on strike. this is my last year… and i can speak for alot of 4th year students when i say how frustrating this strike is..

  72. RN3rdYear

    Oh dont get me wrong maria, this is very frustrating for me…I have my wedding booked for May with deposits down…an extension of the school year will very much affect my personal life and that of my fiance.

    Not to mention, i’m missing clinical hours. I am aware of the financial impact this strike has on many students…as although i can absorb a small loss…its not something I would LIKE to absorb.

  73. alien baby

    @ flusha
    Yup, I think forced rat in on the way – see earlier post about asking CUPE to give up on the contract faculty.

    @ all.
    It is possible that at tomorrow’s GMM, bargaining priorities (key issues) will again be up for debate. There’s the chance motions will be made to lose one entirely, in order to get closer on the others. Look at the what’s on the table right now from both sides. What do you think the union could take off completely in order to reach a settlement? Contract length? SRC? Indexation?

    I will vote according to whoever makes the best argument here, given that undergrad voices have not been represented thus far. To me, a best argument takes undergrad, admin, and union needs into account, and balances practicality with moral principle. You know, “consider all the angles.”

  74. That’s the thing about life. You win some…you lose some. At this point and time, we are all losing. Financially, emotionally, physically, educationally, and especially mentally. Like RN3rdYear said, I can take this small loss/set back, but its not something that I would like to take. Sure life would have been so much better if school was going on normally, and we would be in exams or even done them, and on our christmas breaks. I can see now that I sure did take my nicely scheduled and organized life for granted. The grass is always greener on the other side (we all have sat in class and wished we were at home or sleeping, etc.) but in the end, it is definetly never greener.

  75. Thanks alien baby,

    I would have to say contract length. Maybe its because I’ve just heard so much about the 2010 issue or maybe its because it actually is a predominant issue that the university and the union are unwilling to budge on. Either way, that’s my vote. Not sure what other’s think.

  76. nellyli

    so we could be back to class on Dec right?

  77. ram

    @RN3rdYear
    No worries.. I am not here to mistake you as every body is anxious and this blog just seems to be a good way to vent our feelings/anxieties..But if anybody seems exciatble/passive/dormant to someone, then i request that person not to respond if the question seems silly…

    But my worries were about forced ratification which is being discussed now in the blog… I am sure nothing is gonna be done till thursday until their GMM gets over… My concern is, there is still a slim chance (if not considerable) for the university to call for the forced ratification and the helpless union might just succumb to the trap.. So i am not saying this as a a sure possibility but at the same time i do not want to eliminate this slim probability…. that is all…

  78. Nurse 1

    @ RN3rdYear re your post concerning placement hours.

    I understand that required number of placement hours is the York School of Nursing standards and not CNOs.

    I hope they take the strike into consideration when deciding total number of placement hours at the end of the degree.

    ps considering starting a nurse specific blog to address these types of concerns.

  79. RN3rdYear

    Nurse 1

    Well that is good to know…I was always told by our first/second year mentors that the hours count towards our license. If that is the case, the school should definitely be considering that when we apply for graduation.

    Let me know if you start a blog.

  80. It’s sad because before this, I was on leave from school for a year. I come back and this happens. Figures.

  81. Andrei MR

    Me, again.

    Ram asked, “So What is the probability the strike could end on / before 15 dec?”

    Given the high likelihood that a forced ratification vote is imminent, that probability is indeed quite high.

    That means that this guy will be sad:

    (enjoy!)

  82. Me, again.

    Ram asked, “So What is the probability the strike could end on / before 15 dec?”

    Given the high likelihood that a forced ratification vote is imminent, that probability is indeed quite high.

    That means that this guy will be sad:

    (enjoy!)

  83. @flushafleshfarm:

    “I fear that this has gone farther than both sides had intended and may turn into the real showdown that was predicted for 2010.”

    To quote Sarah Palin, “you betcha!” 🙂

  84. Has anyone been following what is going on at Osgoode? Apparently CUPE members have been messing around with that school quite a bit. One of my friends told me that one of his classes got disriputed by a bunch of CUPE members singing folk songs.

  85. Nurse 1

    @YorkIsAwesome

    Yes I’ve heard this too. However only based on student comments. A reporter needs to interview these students and get the word out.

    Also everyone must read
    “Small but Mighty Glendon Picket Disrupts Admin Wine & Cheese”

    http://www.3903strike.ca/

    CUPE PR was pretty bad in the first place. Now they are supporting these types of actions?

  86. alien baby

    @ Stef

    “I wish that the terms of the union’s demands vs. the university’s offerings were in the same unit of measurement. How are we supposed to understand the comparison between “$3,500″ on the union’s side and “$105,000 for three years” on the university’s?”

    Can you tell me what you’re looking at there? Maybe the confusing units of measurement can be explained, but I don’t see where those 2 figures go together on the two documents..

  87. Commuter

    I’ve been bored and so I watched the Legislative Assembly channel today. Unless they mentioned Shurman’s bill this morning, there was NO mention of back-to-work legislation or Bill 135.

    So much for them staying late today… the House adjourned at 5:50pm. Slackers 😉

  88. @alien baby

    Vote to dump contract length!

    It’s the only demand left on which compromise is not possible (i.e., there are no acceptable compromises between the positions of the union and the admin, so somebody has to win and somebody else has to lose).

    A union win on contract length would erode government independence from universities, usurp the usual university decision-making structures (which already involve all stakeholders), and make another bruising strike in 2010 far more likely. As a result it’s neither in the short term nor the long term interest of the university as a whole to get a 2-year contract.

    There’s evidence that contract length is being driven by CUPE execs, not the grassroots (see my blog for details). There’s also evidence that the union execs are prepared to trade off gains in other areas to achieve contract length (again see my blog). Most rank-and-filers could care less about it, so it should be an easy win to vote against it at the GMM.

  89. May I also add, a lot of people, especially first and second year students, are worried about facing another strike in 2010. If contract length is not a big deal, then get rid of it. It would be a huge PR boost for a union that really, really needs one right now.

  90. I’m with Bill Williams,

    I said the same thing above (well with less factual support haha) But I really agree, lose the contract length!!!!

  91. alien baby

    Elle and Bill

    I hear you. I ask you to look closely at the SRC issues of long-term faculty. It doesn’t appear to me that the two sides are at all close there, whether presented in 2 or 3 year terms.

    If the university’s deal-breaker was contract length, I think they would have emphasized this by making a gesture towards the other issues, but only in three-years terms.

    I believe I read on this blog that Dean Drummond had been quoted saying length wasn’t a dealbreaker.

    I’m also sure that no one at the last meetings has been arguing about contract length.

    So, I’m not convinced (yet) that that’s how a settlement could be reached, but if I was, I’d follow your recommendations. As would, I’m sure, the majority at the meetings, who have proven often enough a resistance to being led around by radicals or executives. (At one contentious meeting, the membership threw out the entire agenda planned by these people, in order to talk more practically about bargaining.)

  92. alien baby

    Plus, Bill Williams, you’re not an undergrad. I feel responsible to them.

  93. education is a right?

    I have been trying to find information on drop dates and money info specific to the strike and have come across very little. Could someone maybe clear this up for me? Can we still drop course(s) and if so how much of our original tuition fees would we get back if any?Thanks.
    See you all on Thurs!

  94. B

    @education is a right? – you would get nothing back. The strike started way past the deadlines for refunds.

  95. not a DIY student

    @Maria

    I am with you on starting a class action law suit. I gave up my FT job to pursue more education and this is what happens with that hard earned money. I’ve put my life on hold for this? However, I have to admit that the quality of the education I got thus far has been excellent. It’s the politics that SUCK!

  96. education is a right?

    @ B
    I understand that, but thought that maybe this would have changed due to our current status of not being able to attend any classes/depending on how long the strike lasts?

  97. MR Two

    LOL, too bad I’m not going back Dec 15th if that’s the case… I’m already booked for work, and I can’t afford to lose the job.

  98. Concetta

    were going back dec. 15th? did i miss something ???

  99. Commuter

    @ Concetta

    No- Dec. 15 is the cut-off date. If we are not back by then, the earliest we could go back is in January.

  100. B

    @education is a right? – nothing has changed so far. York has repeatedly said no refunds because the strike occurred beyond the drop date for refunds. Policy won’t change because of the current situation. We’ll see what happens if this stretches into 85 days

  101. education is a right?

    Oh ok. That blows. Thanks for the info

  102. oh really...

    I really predict the strike ending right before this whole “loose the year thing.” I don’t see how it is possible for them to do that. Yeah it is a waste of money, but it is also a HUGE waste of time and effort. What about all of the hours and marks we have put in thus far? What about those of us who are ALREADY behind our peers? I took some time off to work and whatnot before starting university, so while my friends are graduating this year, I still have a ways to go. Even the thought of loosing the year is horrible for me (and others) because I REALLY do not want to be ANOTHER year behind. York just doesn’t want people to work quickly towards their degree because they offer pretty much none of the required courses for BOTH of my majors during summer school.

    I WANT OUTTTTTTT, but they AREN’T LETTING MEEEE

  103. fg2wil

    There goes my reading week.
    There goes my summer job line-up.

  104. fed up

    Well, I have hit my breaking point. It’s mid-December. Still don’t know what’s going on.

    You know what? I think I have made my decision. I’m looking at working for the rest of the year and applying for out of province. NOT Ryerson or U of T. What did it is reading about all of this 2010 business. I’m sorry, but I am a second-year undergrad and I am NOT going to suffer through all of this uncertainty and then AGAIN in two years.

    Honestly, why is anyone bothering to stay at York? It is time to get out.

  105. Breaking news!

    I think this University is a joke and will always be a joke. The university wastes too much money that the union feels it deserves some of it. That is where we stand. Everybody suffers. Nobody cares about the students. Nobody cares about the degrees. The only thing these parties care about is their pride. Honestly, I think most of us (students caught in the mess) would act similarly if we were in each of those positions…. That’s the sad part ….

    ** Sorry for the BREAKING NEWS! part, I just wanted a cool name and that everybody would read my post. haha

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