New University Offer

The University has released a new offer today. They have addressed issues of funding indexation to accommodate membership growth. Job security for Unit 2 contract faculty is still far from what the Union is demanding. The University is offering 10 new full time appointments for full time tenure positions, with improved job security for Unit 2 members. A total increase of 10% over three years. The latest Union proposals were about 28% over two years.

This seems like a fair offer. I would have liked to see better job security proposals especially for post doctorate contract faculty, however.

I doubt the Union will accept this.

Update here

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56 Comments

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56 responses to “New University Offer

  1. F-Ed Up

    Just a question because I am unsure how this works: don’t they have to meet with the Union to make an offer to them? I thought that was how negotiations work.
    I’m just wondering why they’d publish this on their website but not present this directly to CUPE in a meeting… it seems a bit confusing to me but maybe I’m missing something about how this all works?

  2. ram

    Thank you yorkstrike2008 for posting this as a new header.
    the new offer just summarizes the little developments that were made during the last week negotiations.. .. The talks were suspended because the union was not prepared to accept this very same offer that amounted to 10 % increase over three years..

    Is the funding indexation for future union growth the same as the one demanded by the union???

    The new offer does not have any thing in reference to the SRC (special renewable contract) for most of the experienced unit 2 members…
    I do not think the new offer is just a settlement out of the negotiations.. Do you???

  3. I am also a little confused by this…

  4. jk12

    Is there a date by which the Union is supposed to respond or can this offer simply be left on the table indefinitely?

  5. ram

    The reason they did not present this offer now is because they already did before the talks were suspended.. It is just to show to the public that the university is still working on this issue.. Again a foul play..
    ( I am 99 % sure that this is the same offer that the union denied to accept when they were negotiating from 27-30 .Nov)

  6. ram

    Wish Cupe member with child was here to assist in clarifying our doubts…

  7. yorkstrike2008

    Here is the last CUPE Proposal that I have seen from Nov. 29th.

    https://yorkstrike2008.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/highlights-of-the-latest-proposal.pdf

  8. ram

    haha No way is the indexation mentioned here is the same as their current(?) demand…

  9. P D

    So is this a totally new offer that the union will strongly consider or this just a old offer that was proposed before and York just throwing it back out there? I caught up on most of my work but I took a little break for the last week. With this new offer i don’t know if i should finish up all my work asap in fear of this new offer being accepted and us going back to school this week. Someone please clarify!!!

  10. maria

    So what are the chances that the strike will be settled within the next few days?

    Will we have class before January?

  11. Andrew

    Has anyone else noticed that attendance on the picket lines is way down? I walked through the picket at York Boulevard this morning at around 10:30, and there couldn’t have been more than a dozen strikers there. This is less than half the number of people from early last week.

    So are the strikers impoverished or not? Because it sure seems like they’re not desperate for strike pay.

  12. seems like the last attempt by York U admin to end the strike before the new year…

    I think CUPE might accept it!

  13. yamz

    they’ve also started to take off early… at the beginning they were there till 7:00PM

    now as I leave campus around 4:30/4:45, there are no picketers on York Blvd 50% of the time

  14. annonymous

    wait, so is this the same offer the Union already rejected or a new one?

  15. dsd

    Well it looks even more obvious now that we are not going back to school before Christmas. I only hope we will be starting from January. I’ve been very tolerant and has not participated in any demonstrations because I do believe what Union is fighting for is noble, but starting from January I will be yelling at the top of my lungs and fighting for my right to education, the one I paid for with a god damn government loan.

  16. alien baby

    Well, so much for not bargaining in public!

    I wish CMWC was here too. It seems to me that this “offer” is a more formal statement of where they were at when talks broke down last weekend.

    As you can see, the largest disparity is over contract faculty, in particular the ones to whom the SRC will apply. (The funds issues do not respond to the growth that has already taken place either of course – they offer to increase funds 5-12% when they’ve already admitted 28% more students, so the funds are still less than they were in 2005.)

    These contract faculty to whom the SRC issue will apply represent a tiny fraction of the CUPE membership at large. But their issue is one that has been jettisoned in the last few contracts in order to reach a settlement for all. In other words, for the last decade, they’ve sacrificed this point for the good of the membership as a whole, with the promise that next time it would be taken up again. On top of that, the last time it was an issue almost 10 years ago, half the people who qualified got the deal, with a promise that the other half would get their turn the next time, but it was then abolished as an program. So this tiny group has been hanging around in CUPE with a promise that one day, like their buddies, they’d get to go “up” into YUFA.

    In the discussions with many of my striking friends, it was this “minority” issue, which will never apply to the majority of us, which compelled a strike vote on principle.

    I think it is telling how much energy has been spent focussing the debate on the graduate student majority, the greedy, radical, unreasonable, conspiring, spoiled, dissembling TAs and GAs, who are ruining it for the contract faculty, whose issues have public support. This “offer” suggests an admin that had moved and is actually quite close on all of grad student issues.

    This offer asks the CUPE majority and the public to now once again f-over these long-timers.

    We’ll see.

  17. Woot

    Thanks to those who drove away Cupe Member With Child, we are now unable to get the inside scoop!

  18. Yorkie

    I respect the right to strike, but it really is amazing how so few can bring the entire university to a halt. Even at the beginning of the strike there really didn’t seem to be that many going on strike.

    The purpose of a strike is to put pressure on bargaining, but by shutting down all classes isn’t CUPE being given disproportionately high impact?

    I think that the university should be able to continue what they can without the strikers. If some classes can be taught without the striking faculty, why not do it? Some concessions should be made for students who don’t want to cross the picket line (like making all classes recorded), but the senate policy effectively gives CUPE way more impact than it actually has, and this is unfair to the university and to the students who have no problems crossing the picket line.

  19. Pally Wally

    I agree, however, CUPE3903 now do over 50% of teaching. So who is going to run the 3 classes I have with no full-time faculty?

  20. F-Ed Up

    @ Yorkie

    I think that the other problem would be YUFA members who didn’t want to cross the picket lines – then we’d be without profs, too.

  21. Mike Oxbig

    i dont know what city you people are living in…but in Toronto…it’s friggin cold outside…

    i dunno..maybe i’m crazy…but i think that may have something to do with a decreasing amount of picketers

  22. tester

    dsd…you should have been yelling from day 1. People have tolerated this for 2 long. we have nothing to gain and everything to loose. why wait. Dec11 is right here. come to the next rally…we could use your lungs.

  23. Bobert

    @Woot

    as far as i have been following this blog, CUPE MWC never actually provided us with “inside info” if anything she was just making up her picketing hours through e-picketing

  24. alien baby

    @ Yorkie.

    Yeah, the Senate got itself out of a lot of conflicting issues by shutting down classes.

    In theory, a tenured (stream) prof is responsible to deliver the course they direct, but their contracts devote time to mark and tutor only a fraction of their lecture students. So for their big courses, putting all the picket-line/scab issues aside, they would have to redesign their tutorial/evaluation methods to cover up to 250 students in the same workload the now give to 30. Not great for quality.

    But at the same time, as Pally points out, there are tons of big courses taught by contract faculty and marked by TAs. Probably disproportionately so, ’cause profs prefer the smaller, seminar types. Off the top of my head, I know my dept. would have at least 2000 students without access to instruction if Senate brought the classes back.

    Most people in the industry think this dependence on contract faculty/TAs brings down the institution’s quality. When you discuss York’s contract/tenure ratios with other people in the academic sector, they look like you’re a cook discussing about rat traps in the kitchen. Not hey, that’s a crappy job or you’re paid badly for it, but whoa, what kind of restaurant is the chef running?

  25. Woot

    @ Bobert

    Ever since CMWC went offline on this blog, the CUPE site has also not updated us with any new information. Times like RIGHT NOW is when we need that individual the most to see what mass emails are being sent around (insider info), or if a meeting between the Union and York has been scheduled in hopes of reaching an agreement.

  26. Woot

    I’m really curious what their going to discuss in this upcoming general membership meeting, without CMWC we have no idea.

    Unless another CUPE member that attends would be able to provide us more info.

  27. Cupe member with child

    Don’t worry, I’m here!!

  28. RR

    Guys this is nothing new from the university. It’s just a PR press relaease updating everyone on what the university offered at those 3 days of meetings. They don’t have anything else to post since nothing else is happening right now.

  29. oh really...

    I am starting to get really nervous because it seems like if the strike isn’t ending now, it will probably go until the 11ish week point. If that happens, classes won’t resume until the end of January, and so exams will probably be during “reading week.” That will be quite the problem for me and many others who have already booked thier vacations prior to the strike occuring.

    I’m getting sick and tired of putting my life on hold for these jerks who don’t care about us undergrads.

  30. Woot

    I’m glad your still here with us CMWC!

  31. Protest

    I was told that no negotiations would occur during the Christmas break (a colleague) and that the next time the parliament of Ontario sits down would be during February. All along, I have been running under the assumption that classes will begin in Jan no matter what happens but I am not so sure anymore. I dont mind loosing December but January is taking this too way way way too far…

  32. MR Two

    Going until February would be ridiculous… Jan 5th ftw =(

  33. RR

    Yeah, middle of January is what I think will be the logical time that this will end. Don’t be surprised if the 11th week comes around though, I won’t be.

  34. F-Ed Up

    @ RR haha “logical” is right! but “logical” only seems to make it less likely lol

  35. Worried

    Welcome back Cupe Member with Child. What is your feeling on the Union accepting the new offer? Any insight would be welcome.

  36. I’m not too sure this is actually the original CUPE member with child. I went into a previous discussion and saw that her name was CUPE member with child…not Cupe member with child. The letters of CUPE were capitalized. The one in this discussion is not. Unless there was a sudden desire for a name change….

  37. ram

    I agree with Elle. Because by this time she should have written some thing…

    When she came and said hello again, she should have written something about the offer as the update is also given on top of the page… I think the person so called “cupe member with child” is not the genuine “CUPE member with child”…. I am sure this FAKE(??) identity cannot provide any insight because s/he is not at all in the union….

  38. anonymous

    From what i understand this isnt a new offer this is just as someone had said prior to myself this is more of a formal way of outlining what they had offeredd the union a couple of weekes ago when they were talking for 3 days…so this is not anything new as it is still at the 10 percent increase over a 3 year contract so dont fret people

  39. Honest to god, you would think that the University is purposely trying to confuse us. I feel like I’m playing some sort of online game where I have to decipher through clues and figure out what’s true and what’s not, and what’s happening and what’s not happening.

  40. @all the CUPE MWC fans

    …internet. fakes aliases. a majority of you are using them. derr.

  41. ram

    oh my god!!! They ARE too far apart that end cannot reached anytime soon.. ONLY SOLUTION IS BACK TO WORK LEGISLATION… There are quite a lot of demands that are yet to be discussed about… There is no negotiation scheduled anywhere in near future…I really sympathize with ourselves for the indescribable plight that we are going through….

  42. Jimmy

    My real name is not Jimmy either 😀

  43. Fred

    We should not let government interfere with our daily lives and politicans making decisions about others and their contract. It is not a dictatorship here in Canada so we dont need government to get involved
    I hate losing my time waiting for this strike to end, but I wont sacrifice my values and democracy in order to get result. This is beyond stupid
    No to back to work legislation

  44. Artem

    I’m using a fake name too…. 😉

  45. Woot

    My name is not Woot either =/!

  46. KAZZA

    I understand the want for back to work legislation but is that not a slippery slope? Where would it end? I don’t support the union nor do I believe that unions are needed any more however I believe in the legal system and I believe that the union has been given a right and I would not ever want to see the day where the government has the ability to take away our rights.

  47. lisa

    looks like York has offered a reasonable offer to the CUPE union. I don’t see how the union can expect more than that- if they keep expecting what they want, this strike will never end. and i will be upset if we dont go back in january. what’s going to happen to fall semester half year courses? im getting worried were gonna lose the semester. Come on teachers, settle already!

  48. Commuter

    @ Fred & KAZZA

    I sent messages today to my MPP & the others, voicing my opposition to back-to-work legislation.

    I’m not some slacker who doesn’t want to go back (I do want to go back) but back-to-work legislation (which violates rights, opens up a can of worms, sets precedent, will surely result in another strike when the contract expires, etc.) is NOT the way to end this dispute.

  49. Ann Euler

    I’m not CUPE member with child, but I am a CUPE member. From what I know, the offer on the YU site now is pretty much the same offer that they had made during negotiations a couple of weeks ago.

    I think it actually looks better than it really is. One big problem is that the indexation of funds is not retroactive, so the 28% growth CUPE has experienced goes unacknowledged. Additionally, there are a large number of funds that this indexation would not apply to.

    Another problem is the offer being made to Unit 2s. Under the employer’s new scheme, any U2 converted to YUFA would be required to teach more for less pay (still) than YUFA members who don’t enter through CUPE. Job security wise, they seem to promise nothing more than a initial 5 year contract and after that, who knows? I have heard that it’s also very probable that YUFA would not endorse such a scheme since it would create a tiered system in their union.

    Other points, such as wages, anti-claw-back language and other non-monetary requests are unchanged and/or not mentioned.

  50. Stef

    I emailed my MPP as well, informing him about my qualms with back to work legislation. (Which are very similar to Commuter’s) I have yet to hear back from him – it’s been a couple of days now. When (if?) I get a reply, I can post it.

  51. prodigy

    well… can I just say one thing:

    I go to HARVARD extension and I love it!

    I live 2 minute walk from the university and I laught my ass off at how rude the university is. I get better service being an online student WITH actual potential of making it into the ivy league in about 2 years. ..over the phone and IN the internet then I ever did when I came here.
    We have 2 profressor and 1 t.a per class.
    1 prof. all he does is lecture. Like, she just walks into the room and lecture answers a few questions leaves.
    then another prof. just for answering questions amd explaining things like concepts and theories etc etc and going over the readings. AND then you have T.A which does all the marking and we suck up to him to get better grades.

    Now, I just wanted to say this becuase I feel that there might be a resolution coming soon.
    My name is Jorge and I am from El salvador..and I love the 2 classes that I am taking at harvard… york can go suck on a big nut… the level of quality of teaching I have gotten there is just astoundingly much better than any level of quality that York could ever offer or DID offer to me at some point.
    Now…why do I read this website?…well I am online a lot and I trying to get this essay finished.

    Now let’s get back to the program….and see how this clowns shoot themselves on the foot…university reputations should never be taken so lightly. … but what the heck… I now see that york university does not give a hoot about its student… lol… I have tried to bring a resolution to this problem…as for a while it was my fav. site… = ) but man… does york ever not want this stuff done uh?

  52. Jeff

    There will be a class action lawsuit if 4th year students lose their year…. book it.

  53. Andrei MR

    Hi. I’m a “rank-and-file” 3903 member.

    My understanding of 3903’s position on the Administration’s current offer is that they believe it’s unchanged from their November 5’th offer. Meanwhile, we think our current demands are substantially reduced from our November 5’th demands.

    For example, we are asking for 8% over two years, down from 11% over two years: that is, we concede lost real wages in the previous three years. However, the Administration’s proposed benefits increase still amounts to a reduction per-capita.

    But, this is only my personal understanding. CUPE should have an official public response sooner or later.

  54. No one cares

    York and CUPE 3093 should be ashamed of themselves.

    They say they care about students, but its bullshit….. the strike has gone on way too long…..

    Why do the union refuse binding arbitration??
    They’re afraid they wont get the deal they deserve….
    maybe they deserved it when it seemed like they cared about their students, but clearly they dont, and they dont deserve shit.,

    As for York….they should pay for lost tuition of 5 weeks to every student…..

    Shame on all of you…

  55. Edmund

    The offer is the same one they offered before negotiations broke off again. York just re-posted it in a new format.

  56. Bee

    To no one cares: I am a Unit 2 professor at York-I have a BA, MA, PhD and 4 years postdoctoral experience from an Ivy League University in the States. I work hard teaching students-and I DO care for them (not everyone I know does, but I do). I don’t just ‘show up and teach’, I have to create the lectures, each hour of lecture takes over 10 hours of time. Some weeks all I do is prepare lectures, way over what would be full time hours. I don’t mind the pay–even though the benefits suck–I have three little kids, how am I supposed to take them to the dentist or buy them glasses etc on the tiny little bit of benefits I am alloted? Even this isn’t the main point though–the main point is that I have NO JOB SECURITY. I had more job security when I worked at a fast food restaurant as an undergrad (at least there I knew that if I did a decent job I could still keep working there). Now I just gotta hope that I will be given more work in the next semester, I don’t from season to season if I will be able to stay in the black. Despite this I really care about my standard of teaching, and I care about my students. I don’t know if all unit 2’s are though–if your employer doesn’t care about you its easy to become apathetic–which sucks and I don’t condone at all. But its a danger. The bottom line is I gotta look out for my family. I can’t just settle for the sake of others. This would be giving in to the University’s tactics, they are being manipulative, trying to convince you that they are being reasonable–when the real big issue of job security is not at all being adressed.

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