Take 2 seconds and send this mass email to all levels of government!

Copy and paste this letter to your email and send it to all levels of government.

The Students of York University have been out of class for nearly one month. Little progress is being made between CUPE Union 3903 and York University. This semester, and for many this entire year, is being jeopardised. Power politics are being placed before the welfare of 50,000 people! Students are a party directly effected by this crisis and we have absolutely no voice. We are not invited to the bargaining table nor do we have a collective organisation that has any significant say in the matter. I am vulnerable,  abandoned, and forgotten. Will you, the elected officials of this Province please give us a voice and bring this to the forefront of your assemblies? 

I am one of the 50,000 vulnerable, abandoned and forgotten people who desperately require government intervention to end this York University Strike of 2008.

Please help us,

York University Undergraduate Students

 

Here are the email addresses of ALL Provincial MPPs (broken into sections of 50 because most email programmes will only send to 50 addresses at a time):

saggelonitis.mpp@liberal.ola.org
lalbanese.mpp@liberal.ola.org
ted_arnott@ontla.ola.org
warthurs.mpp@liberal.ola.org
bob.bailey@pc.ola.org
bbalkissoon.mpp@liberal.ola.org
toby.barrett@pc.ola.org
rbartolucci.mpp@liberal.ola.org
cbentley.mpp@liberal.ola.org
lberardinetti.mpp@liberal.ola.org
mbest.mpp@liberal.ola.org
gilles@gillesbisson.com
jbradley.mpp@liberal.ola.org
lbroten.mpp@liberal.ola.org
mbrown.mpp@liberal.ola.org
jbrownell.mpp@liberal.ola.org
mbryant.mpp@liberal.ola.org
dcansfield.mpp@liberal.ola.org
dcaplan.mpp@liberal.ola.org
acarroll.mpp@liberal.ola.org
mchan.mpp@liberal.ola.org
ted.chudleigh@pc.ola.org
mcolle.mpp@liberal.ola.org
kcraitor.mpp@liberal.ola.org
bcrozier.mpp@liberal.ola.org
bdelaney.mpp@liberal.ola.org
vdhillon.mpp@liberal.ola.org
dinovoc-qp@ndp.on.ca
jdickson.mpp@liberal.ola.org
ldombrowsky.mpp@liberal.ola.org
bduguid.mpp@liberal.ola.org
dduncan.mpp@liberal.ola.org
garfield.dunlop@pc.ola.org
christine.elliott@pc.ola.org
kflynn.mpp@liberal.ola.org
pfonseca.mpp@liberal.ola.org
jgerretsen.mpp@liberal.ola.org
mgravelle.mpp@liberal.ola.org
fgelinas-qp@ndp.on.ca
hhampton-qp@ndp.on.ca
ernie.hardeman@pc.ola.org
randy.hillier@pc.ola.org
ahorwath-qp@ndp.on.ca
phoy.mpp@liberal.ola.org
tim.hudak@pc.ola.org
hjaczek.mpp@liberal.ola.org
ljeffrey.mpp@liberal.ola.org
sylvia.jones@pc.ola.org
frank.klees@pc.ola.org
pkormos-qp@ndp.on.ca

————————-

kkular.mpp@liberal.ola.org
mkwinter.mpp@liberal.ola.org
jmlalonde.mpp@liberal.ola.org
jleal.mpp@liberal.ola.org
dlevac.mpp@liberal.ola.org
lisa.macleod@pc.ola.org
amangat.mpp@liberal.ola.org
rmarchese-qp@ndp.on.ca
gerry.martiniuk@pc.ola.org
dmatthews.mpp@liberal.ola.org
bmauro.mpp@liberal.ola.org
dmcguinty.mpp@liberal.ola.org
tmcmeekin.mpp@liberal.ola.org
pmcneely.mpp@liberal.ola.org
mmeilleur.mpp@liberal.ola.org
norm.miller@pc.ola.org
pmiller-qp@ndp.on.ca
jmilloy.mpp@liberal.ola.org
cmitchell.mpp@liberal.ola.org
rmoridi.mpp@liberal.ola.org
julia.munro@pc.ola.org
bill.murdoch@pc.ola.org
ynaqvi.mpp@liberal.ola.org
john.otoole@pc.ola.org
dorazietti.mpp@liberal.ola.org
jerry.ouellette@pc.ola.org
lpendergast.mpp@liberal.ola.org
speters.mpp@liberal.ola.org
gphillips.mpp@liberal.ola.org
mprue-qp@ndp.on.ca
spupatello.mpp@liberal.ola.org
sqaadri.mpp@liberal.ola.org
kramal.mpp@liberal.ola.org
dramsay.mpp@liberal.ola.org
lrinaldi.mpp@liberal.ola.org
bob.runciman@pc.ola.org
truprecht.mpp@liberal.ola.org
lsandals.mpp@liberal.ola.org
joyce.savoline@pc.ola.org
laurie.scott@pc.ola.org
msergio.mpp@liberal.ola.org
peter.shurman@pc.ola.org
msmith.mpp@liberal.ola.org
gsmitherman.mpp@liberal.ola.org
gsorbara.mpp@liberal.ola.org
csousa.mpp@liberal.ola.org
norm.sterling@pc.ola.org
tabunsp-qp@ndp.on.ca
htakhar.mpp@liberal.ola.org
mvanbommel.mpp@liberal.ola.org

————————-

jwatson.mpp@liberal.ola.org
jwilkinson.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org
jim.wilson@pc.ola.org
elizabeth.witmer@pc.ola.org
kwynne.mpp@liberal.ola.org
john.yakabuski@pc.ola.org
dzimmer.mpp@liberal.ola.org

 

THIS IS THE EQUIVALENT TO A DIGITAL PROTEST. MAKE THIS YOUR EVERYDAY ROUTINE IN THE MORNING. THIS TAKES TWO SECONDS. THERE ARE 50,000 OF US. THEY WILL NOTICE WHEN THEIR EMAIL BOXES ARE FLOODED DAILY WITH LETTERS.

WHAT ELSE DO WE HAVE TO LOSE? WE ARE IN JEOPARDY OF LOSING THIS SEMESTER. THE UNION NOR THE UNIVERSITY GIVE A DAMN ABOUT US!

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121 Comments

Filed under Uncategorized

121 responses to “Take 2 seconds and send this mass email to all levels of government!

  1. CUPE member with child

    Congrats yorkstrike2008, you just did exactly what York wants you to do – play into their ruse to refuse to bargain.

  2. ram

    I agree with CUPEMWC:::
    i surely think any drastic measures in haste will just make thing worse and will never give a pleasing solution to anybody of us… I think what “yorkstrike2008” wants us to do is just not right in this case because the university will have a greater chance of evading from their key responsibility of COMING TO THE BARGAINING TABLE WITH FAITH…Honestly we should not be doing this… Let us formulate some strategy (if we can) to make the university sit right at the bargaining table.. IF NOT LET US NOT DO SOMETHING THAT MIGHT WORSEN THE SITUATION BY JUST PUTTING A ENFORCED END TO THE STRIKE.. PLEASE DO NOT DO SEND THE EMAIL AND HELP THE UNIVERSITY EVADE FROM THEIR RESPONSIBILITY…..

  3. Support

    Exactly, yorkstrike2008… it is not fair to take away the right to strike and bargain from the Ta’s..sometimes people need to look beyond themselves… i support union’s and they advance benefits and security for all of us who are later to apply to all industries. Look at elementary teachers and how everyone quotes “they have great benefits!” uh YA, how do you think they go them? They fought for them. I will not be e-mailing to take away their ability to strike. (which is what you are pressuring them to do)

  4. Hostage

    But what about the other bad guy here? Both parties are equally at fault here and both need to come to the bargaining table in good faith, but it seems that both parties are incapable of that. They’ve had their chance to bargain and work this out like civilized adults and both parties have shown to be incapable of that, resorting to lies, deception and taking stabs at each other, and most importantly holding us hostage. So why not send it? If it helps us get back in class then I’m all for it.

  5. yorkstrike2008

    So are we supposed to sit by and get our years mangled while CUPE members go for pay raises? I agree that the CUPE cause is a noble one and I am a union person (my mother is a high school teacher) but I have my priorities and necessities as well. I need to graduate and start making money, I need the summer to work and make money to pay for school.

    I sympathise with you – but you must do the same for undergraduate students.

    Maybe if CUPE paid us strike pay we would feel differently!

    PS. Ontario Teachers are only allowed to strike for two weeks and then back-to-work legislation defaults. One month with little progress is a little ridiculous.

  6. BFD

    A note of caution on this one Yorkstrike2008;

    It’s an idea from a prof, posted on the yorknothostage page.

    You/we should all be cautious about email campaigns.

    1) The letter should be personalized.
    i.e. remove the “we” parts and insert your individual name.

    2) Send only one copy to each recipient per day.
    (don’t play games with multiple email addys,
    just one note to each recipient per day from each
    student at york)

    Some of the good students at Osgoode may be able
    to fill in the details on why you might want to avoid
    having this campaign construed as a form of
    instigating harassment by email.

    Still though, it gives us something positive to do,
    so kudos for that!

    “You say yer life’s a bum deal ‘N yer up against the wall…
    Well people you ain’t even got no kinda deal at all ”
    FZ -rip-

  7. CUPE member with child

    Hostage,

    Your “both parties are at fault” argument is absolutely wrong.

    An analogy: Do you think both creationists and evolutionists are equally wrong and thus a “fair” and tuthful answer as to how we got here lies somewhere in the middle? Obviously not.

    Just because there are two sides to every story, it doesn’t mean that both of them are wrong.

  8. Andrew

    Honestly, I don’t blame the school for not wanting to sit at the table with CUPE. Why? Because so far everything cupe has brought to them has been a joke. Seems to me who is ever working for cupe needs to get their head out of their butt and actually use some common sense when making the next offer.

    The school for a month now has offered 9.25% over 3 years. CUPE has come down from their original offer and gave their team freedom to move around, yet here we are, a month today out of class, and nothing is signed. So common sense has to kick in and say “you’re not getting anything above 9.25% so asking for it, is a waste of time”.

    It sickens me knowing full well CUPE is using us. In the York paper before the strike started, a quote by a cupe member read “we will want to strike asap in order to disrupt the most of the year”. When I read that, all my faith in cupe went with it. It spoke to me loud and clear, that they were out for themselves, and we were the pieces in their game.

    This email idea is stupid, I agree, but I don’t expect York to go to the table anytime soon with these people.

    We want another course of action. How about I grab them all, lock them in a room and not let them out, simpsons style. Sadly, I’m that pissed off over all this that I wouldn’t give it a second thought.

  9. yorkstrike2008

    BFD,

    Thanks for the comments. I have changed the letter a little bit.

    Thanks again!

  10. Andrew

    @CUPE member with child

    There is to sides to every story, and yes both sides can be wrong. Just you are never going to fault your union, and are blinded, so you will never see the wrong in it. That is the whole thing of a bias is it not? I thought that was just common sense.

  11. For pete’s sake. The threat of legislation should speed negotiations, as neither side wants to get an imposed deal that might leave out some of their key demands. It’s an entirely appropriate thing for a third party to demand.

    Of course this even assumes that legislation is a realistic hope — unlikely given that two of the three parties in the Leg, including the government, are opposed.

  12. CUPE member with child

    yorkstrike2008,

    You keep saying you’re “forgotten”? Meanwhile I’ve been coming on here daily giving you and any other undergrad on here updates as I get them or what I go and find out on my own, as well as do my best to explain how this strike effects you and other undergrads beyond you whining about not going to school, and then when it looks like you might want to go back, you whine about having to go back in december? And now that there’s no danger in that you’re back in a hurry to get the legislature to step in again? I don’t think you really know what you want – or at least you seem to “forget” pretty easily.

    You may not want to “forget” to send me a thank you email for the letter I just sent you via email so that you can have your little interview.

  13. Yorkie

    @CUPE member with child

    Strawman
    def: A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent’s position

    Ignoratio elenchi
    Def: informal fallacy of presenting an argument that may in itself be valid, but does not address the issue in question.

    cf. CUPE member with child above

    Students have a right to organize and strike back. CUPE cannot properly present reasons why they are on strike, the Univeristy remains haughty and disinvolved.

    Reap what you sow.

  14. Pally Wally

    The government of Canada just suspended itself for 2 months while autoworkers are dropping like flies, instead of pushing through a stimulus package.

    Somehow I think that students are a lower priority – what jobs are you expecting to get when you graduate, anyway? I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but the unemployment rate is skyrocketing. So – it really is in the government’s best interest to keep us in school as long as possible, see for example: the trend in graduate enrollments.

    The University has already shown us which students ‘need’ school right now – those in professional programs. I know teachers who have years of experience who aren’t getting hired, ones with MEds that are supply teaching. Seriously, the sooner you graduate, the sooner you’ll be serving Osgoode students their cup of joe in the morning. The government and the university have to be doing jumping jacks at the idea that they can ‘prorogue’ so many students from entering the ‘real world’ at this point in time. Let’s stop foisting this all on CUPE, shall we?

  15. Andrew

    So I should be thankful I am on strike? This is my 6th year of school, and I should thank cupe for making me spend more money then I have to? I can’t just get rid of my appartment in Toronto, nor can I find a job in my city, because no one will hire me for a short amount of time.

    To be honest, I’d rather be done school and serving coffee right now then sitting here watching my money fly out the wind.

  16. Pally Wally

    Who’s fault is it that you needed 6 years to do school?

    I’m sure you’ve convinced yourself that it is your own. 20 years ago it was unheard of.

  17. CUPE member with child

    Yorkie,

    Prove that I’ve misresented York’s position.

    Prove that I’ve not addressed key arguments.

    I have a right to publicly declare that I disagree with any methods of student organization that I think is ignorant.

    Besides, we both know that McGuinty’s gov’t isn’t going to pass back to work legislation – and the legislature closes on the 11th anyways. Happy holidays!!!

  18. commenter

    pushing for back to work legislation is *not* a neutral strategy for resolving this work dispute. back to work legislation will defacto favour the university’s position. further, the BTW leg will be a huge setback for all unionized workers across the province, as it sets a precedent for government intervention which impedes workers’ legal right to strike for equitable working conditions.

    you seem to forget that there is already a neutral third party in this dispute – the provincial mediator. no one is disputing the fact that thousands of students – including those in 3903, on the picket lines – are inconvenienced by this strike. however, the most fair, reasonable and appropriate strategy would be to encourage York to return to the bargaining table (the union has already indicated a willingness to do so), so that negotiations can resume, a settlement can be reached, and the strike can end.

  19. Yorkie

    Tsk tsk

    CUPE supporters are sure riled up lately. All YELLING ON THE INTERNET and everything

    Guess that GMM didn’t go so well, no?

    Too bad you weren’t able to join the shop steward on her fun fun vacation!

  20. Pally Wally

    I guess I should finish that thought…

    Really you should have/could have/would have been ‘serving coffee’ for nearly two years already by now. What happened?

    Why is it that no one really flunks out, but fewer people graduate in 4 years than ever before?

    I’m not trying to be some sort of conspiracy nut that says the university just loves ancillary fees for some reason, but I do think that keeping students in 4-year degree streams for 6 years is something that has feedback benefits to an economy that, really, doesn’t have a lot of room for the new graduates who have grown up expecting a job upon graduation.

  21. Andrew

    Umm, I’ve already graduated once.
    Maybe you should get more info before making stupid comments. Don’t claim to know what anyone will do, as you have no idea what job I’m going into, or anyone for that matter. And what does it matter what they did 20 years ago? This is now. The average student stays in school longer now then they ever have.

    But I will enjoy when you serve me coffee.

  22. Pally Wally

    There sure are a lot of agents provocateurs running around these parts playing the role of the rank-and-file CUPE3903 members.

  23. Nurse 1

    @CUPE member with child

    Jeopardizing student’s economic and educational futures: Although still in its early stages damage to student economic and educational future is happing now. There are in fact there are many examples. A 4th year nursing student who was to graduate this term, now cannot and she and her colleagues will not be able to write her RN exams in February. She will not be able to start work. An international student at the YSF town hall said he was $80,000 in debt, had lost his on campus job and had dependent family members where he lived. If the strike continues many students will have to postpone summer jobs. Placements are on hold (placement hours are requirements for both education and nursing students). These are just some of the examples.

    My point is that one group (university or union) does not hold the right to remove the rights of another group without their expressed consent now matter how just they perceive their cause.

    CUPE members consented by going on strike. The university consented by locking union members out and not offering and improved agreement. The students, however, did not consent to have their right to education taken away.

    I agree with you that “shit does happen” however you are using this in the context of random negative events occurring. In this case there have been choices made my all parties except the students. This is not a random event. Groups with power are using that power over those who do not have power.

    This is partially one of the reasons why the forming of “Anti-strike group occurred. The group is a form of students empowering themselves when their rights were taken.

  24. Nurse 1

    Sorry! I should have cut that short. It was a clip from another post but fit well with the argument here I think.

  25. yorkstrike2008

    “CUPE member with child
    December 4, 2008 at 11:24 am · Edit
    yorkstrike2008,

    You keep saying you’re “forgotten”? Meanwhile I’ve been coming on here daily giving you and any other undergrad on here updates as I get them or what I go and find out on my own, as well as do my best to explain how this strike effects you and other undergrads beyond you whining about not going to school, and then when it looks like you might want to go back, you whine about having to go back in december? And now that there’s no danger in that you’re back in a hurry to get the legislature to step in again? I don’t think you really know what you want – or at least you seem to “forget” pretty easily.

    You may not want to “forget” to send me a thank you email for the letter I just sent you via email so that you can have your little interview.”

    So many things to respond to – so little space.

    I thank you for coming here and sharing everything you have to offer. I have, and many on here have thanked you numerous times. I mean forgotten in the sense that in the decisions to end negotiations after 15 minutes, to release propaganda that attempts to bamboozle us (from both sides), a lack of priority participation in the discussions etc. The list goes on and on and on. You know very well what WE mean by forgotten so don’t play coy.

    You see ‘whining’ and I see consistency. The oscillation between wanting school to start in January and planning some sort of pressure to speed up the processes is a product of the changing nature of these negotiations and undergraduate students’ welfare. We went from start in January when it looked like (during the three day of talks) that school was going to start back up quickly and many people had expensive plane tickets, an impossible exam work load a head to projects like this because negotiations have come to a complete halt. Please do not demean my intelligence in the future.

    I have already sent you a thank you letter for the information, and you may listen to my interview on CBC National Radio One. Time and date to be released here soon. 😉

  26. Pally Wally

    You’re right – nothing is worth fighting for and students need to accept that they need to spend 4+ years and $50K+ to qualify to work in retail. May68 never happened, the auto industry was a horrible thing to happen to Ontario’s economy (oh, was that sector of ‘unskilled workers’ unionized?), health care is just socialist bullshit, etc.

    …I got called stupid, I’m going home!

    Take care,
    enjoy “capitalism” and the “free market”

  27. yorkstrike2008

    Furthermore,

    Bill Williams hit the nail right on the head. By pressuring the government (who is accountable to the public – unlike York or CUPE) they will demand that the two parties pick this thing up. If they cannot come to an agreement in more than two months then I support back-to-work legislation MUCH more than CUPE’s demands – no matter how noble they are.

  28. CUPE member with child

    Nurse,

    I have never stated that “shit does happen” and hope that you will retract attributing that quote to me.

    I am well aware that students have had their classes canceled by the university, resulting from our labour withdrawl in the context of our members teaching over 50% of the courses at York University. I am also aware that they have no seat at the bargaining table. However, I wonder if you or they are aware of the implications of an anti-strike position and the call for back to work legislation vis-a-vis the two disputing parties. Thus far it appears to me that neither you nor they are aware.

  29. BFD

    I do not believe this kind of action is about
    right/wrong or support for one side or the other.

    These kind of actions are about the importance of examining what I see as an ethical imperative to be more inclusive of 3rd
    party stakeholders to this conflict.

    This is not a typical labour dispute as it would be say in
    the manufacturing or service sector. That kind of disruption
    directly impacts employer/employee and perhaps a
    few others in the supply-chain, but few else.

    The york strike is having significant impacts on
    other parties (namely the students) who have until this
    point been excluded from consideration in this dispute.
    Unlike customers at the grocery store, York students can
    not just go down the road to the next institution. They
    are in-progress (so to speak) for this term and must complete
    it.

    The latest article in the star gives us a very telling quote,
    from BOTH sides: We are inconvenienced!

    I disagree. My convenience amounts to things like
    a functioning toilet and working elevators.

    My privilege to attend this institution includes my right to
    receive a fair shot at completing the program.

    So far, neither side has been able to include that perspective
    in their position statements (official or otherwise)

    I’ll let the theologians and philosophers amongst us discuss
    what is right or wrong in this scenario. I don’t have enough reliable information to make judgements about those things.

    What I do know is that the message is clear; in spite of
    the propaganda eminating from both sides the undergrads
    don’t matter very much.

    I think it’s possible to change that.
    Positive action is better than negative protests which are
    destined to go unheeded (imho.)

    Oh, and just in case you thought inclusion means everyone…
    It does! What about the retailers in the mall who are
    still due to pay rent without having customers in the door?
    And what about the additional costs/disruptions to the
    community at large? Osgoode students aren’t the only
    ones who do goods works for others, ya know.
    (yikes, I’m ranting)

    “Is there anything good inside of you?
    If there is, I really wanna know.”
    FZ -rip-

  30. Cupe member with child,

    I have respected your comments and the information you have provided on this site up until your comments now. You seem to be getting really upset and angry at opposing comments and your comments are littered with sarcasm and intensity. If you don’t like what you are reading here, then don’t come to this blog. If you are getting angry, take a moment and step back. Seriously, what happened to you? Chill out.

  31. Nurse 1

    CUPE member with child: again sorry and apologies. I’m used to being able to edit ad hoc once posted. I should have cut that short. It was a clip from another post but thought it fit well with the argument. The last few paragraphs are of course retracted.

  32. yorkstrike2008

    @CUPE member with child

    You are deviating from the argument at hand. The implications of back-to-work legislation are irrelevant to the notion that undergraduate students did not consent to our education being withdrawn and are now organising to pressure the return of our education.

    Indeed it may hold salience for further contexts, however, for our purposes it is a deviation and is irrelevant.

  33. yorkstrike2008

    @Nurse

    WordPress does not allow self editing after you’ve submitted. If you would like something edited, ask me to in a comment and I will edit it.

  34. CUPE member with child

    Yorkstrike2008,

    I actually didn’t see the list go on and one. In fact it was rather cut short after mentioning the university’s retreat after 15 mins in a bargaining session, and a vague mention of propaganda deliberately made to “bamboozle” (with no specific mention of any example from the Union’s side. The lack of ‘priority participation in the discussion’ accusation is entirely unclear as to who’s not participating and in what discussions (do you mean undergrads not particpating in the bargaining???)

    Whenever I have published inaccurate information here then I have clearly retracted it publicly as soon as it comes to my knowledge that the info is innaccurate.

    So, what is this list that goes on and on? Give me examples of union “propaganda meant to bamboozle” you.

    As for insulting your intelligence, I think I’ve been rather complimentary thus far.

  35. CUPE member with child

    Ah… that explains it. Here’s my counter-point:

    If undergrads see the implications of back to work legislation as being irrelevant, then why should CUPE see undergrads as relevant?

  36. AlE

    It’s pretty clear to me that the problem isn’t that the negotiations are going nowhere and we therefore must demand back-to-work legislation.

    Rather, the Administration is not serious about negotiating. They’re the ones keeping away from the table and then accusing the other side of prolonging the strike.

    If anything, we need to demand back-to-the-bargaining-table legislation!

  37. AlE

    @CUPE member with child:

    “If undergrads see the implications of back to work legislation as being irrelevant, then why should CUPE see undergrads as relevant?”

    Because, like in all universities across North America, graduate students are second class students. Undergraduates aren’t the subject of abuse, because they are seen as paying customers (“Full-Time Equivalents”, and it used to be “Basic Income Units”); whereas graduate students are indentured labour.

    Since the University treats graduate students as second-class citizens, the undergrads do, as well.

    Once, I heard Lorna Marsden mis-speak: in conversation, she said “income units” before stopping herself and saying “undergraduates”.

  38. RR

    Guys, this is getting out of hand.
    Cupemwc- I agree with you and ram fully that this email list is completely counter productive, and indeed takes away the rights of the union to negotiate. York is loving this sidetracked distraction as it helps them to think that all they have to do it wait- wrong answer!! In order for any of us to get anywhere we HAVE to someway get them to sit down and hammer this out.
    Also, regarding 6 years to complete a 4 year stream- I have one question. How much did it cost to go to university 20 years ago? I think we all know the answer. Also, have you ever heard of part time student? I have, it means you have to work your ass off to pay for any cent to get yourself a basic degree. Please, I urge you guys to lay of students who are in this position, I hope those of you who do feel this way are not supporting the strikeing union.
    Ltes work together here.

  39. Yorkie

    @CUPE member with child

    “If undergrads see the implications of back to work legislation as being irrelevant, then why should CUPE see undergrads as relevant?”

    Ladies and gentlemen, the true face of CUPE.

    Take a bow

    You’ve earned it

  40. An observation

    Have you noticed that on each strike web forum, there are always a few regular Cupe members who keep the online users informed of its position? Cyber picketing makes perfect sense since it reaches a captive audience who are desperate for information regardless of the slant. Is it really much different than standing out in the cold and disseminating information from the lines?

    Is Union participation on this forum is part of alternate picket duty whereby union members who cannot actively picket on the lines are assigned to cyber picketing by representing the Union’s position on the strike blogs?

    My question is not intended to be punative, but I would hope that people would be more forthright about their agenda.

  41. CUPE member with child

    I will indeed take a bow.

    Have a good holiday guys and gals.

    Over and Out.

  42. B

    Well these comments have certainly deviated to idiotic counterpoints.

    If CUPE members don’t see undergrads as relevant they more or less negate the steps they took to get into grad school. Additionally, your pursuing academia here, to see undergrads as irrelevant is to state that your future in academia isn’t relevant as well. Who cares about educating and strengthening knowledge at all!

  43. yorkstrike2008

    Cupe MWC,

    Thank you for your participation in this forum. No matter the intensity of discussion know that you have been a great asset to this community.

    Thank you

  44. yorkstrike2008

    Guys, all I have done here is give you an email list to your provincial MPPs and a quick generic letter that says “Please help us! We need someone to pressure these bozos back to work.”

    You may put whatever opinion you have – whether pro union or pro admin or that you want ‘back to the table legislation.’

    I am by no means holding a gun to your head telling you what to say.

    The point is. It is week 4 and they ARE NOT TALKING(!!!) and there are no signs of them talking. If you were responsible and cared about your future then you would email the government and tell them that we are in rough water and need some help. The two parties cannot seem to come to an agreement and they are dead set on someone being defeated.

    The email only confers that we need help and that NOTHING is happening.

    Stop over examining everything and send a damn email!

  45. Yorkie

    @ CUPE w/kid

    Thank you for participating in this edition of “Meltdown Thursday”. Have you taken your ball and run away home while declaring victory and the live long day? Or can we expect another post in 15 minutes about how you won the debate, see ya later?

    [edited by moderator]

    [edited by moderator]

  46. Nathan

    “Is Union participation on this forum is part of alternate picket duty whereby union members who cannot actively picket on the lines are assigned to cyber picketing by representing the Union’s position on the strike blogs?”

    Exactly right. They’re getting paid the same amount too. This is a form of alternative duty assigned to the physically disabled or people who cannot picket for legal reasons. Not just this forum, but also Facebook, other blogs, and comments sections of major news media.

  47. Nathan

    Regarding the whole mass email thing, yorkstrike2008 is correct.

    He’s not telling you what to write to the MPs. He just wants well, he wants stuff to happen. He doesn’t give a rat’s arse if the Union wins, if the Admin wins, he just wants to GO. BACK. TO. SCHOOL.

    And really, don’t we all?

  48. gina

    Has anyone notice that parliament is a mess right now and who really knows if they are going to do anything about this email. I read that they are not able to do anything real anyways, but I guess it can’t hurt.

  49. Ridculous

    @Yorkstrike2008

    Well, I think it is a good idea! I like that your letter does not call for “back to work legislation” but rather political pressure for York and the CUPE to negotiate or to strike a deal. I like it. If others are willing I will join in.

  50. Ridculous

    @Yorkstike2008

    Also, let us know when your interview on the radio is or post a transcript for us.

  51. NOPE

    RIDICULOUS:: I AM NOT WILLING::RIDICULOUS

  52. Nathan

    Gina, wrong Parliament.

  53. Oh dear

    Come on people. Look at the economic times! Cupe is demanding too much. The faculty should have better contracts, but this strike is causing more problems for alot for people. The sooner the union realizes they are demanding too much, the sooner we will be back in class.

    ps- Parliament isn’t going to care AT ALL about Cupe demands, sorry to burst some bubbles!!

  54. TA's Opinion

    Some CUPE members are receiving strike pay to “e-picket” or “e-educate” or “e-propagandize”, however you see it. Others are not, just want to discuss and share. As PR critics like Yorkie have noted, even the “e-picketers” are not consistent in their message – that’s because they’re basically just people trying to answer questions and explain the CUPE position from their individual point of view. So whether you think s/he’s a CUPE mouthpiece or not, let’s give CMWC a break, ok? Who knows, maybe there are some “concerned parents” or “undergrads” out there who are actually professional admin hacks. I suspect there’s at least one on the FB groups, someone who shares with a particular administrator an intimate knowledge of funding details and consistently misuses the word “fulsome.” In this day and age, it’s par for the course.

    And undergrads, as you come increasingly to the outraged realization that no one but yourselves is looking out for your interests as a group, congratulations. I think that’s probably an astute conclusion. Consider this part of your education. I know myself, CMWC and many others do care about you as individuals, when you’re in our classrooms, on this blog etc. If I had known this strike was going to go on so long and had been able to forsee how it would affect you, maybe I would have exercised my strike vote differently. On your behalf, instead of my own. But maybe not.

    Accurately assessing, and then finding ways to improve, your individual political power, whether as a private citizen, student, worker, or as part of a of larger constiuencies, is a function and a benefit of a good education. All CUPE members and York Administrators have more education than you, so they’ve probably come to this realization already, which may explain why it seems they all act only in their self-interest.

    Now it’s your turn. But back-to-work legislation won’t fly, ’cause it wouldn’t be in the interests of a whole huge other group of selfish adults who don’t care about you, including a bunch of politicians. Lobby govt. and both sides as hard as you can to get back to the table.

  55. Melanie

    I really don’t understand you guys. When they were talking most of you were angry because you didn’t want your Christmas break ruined, now when they aren’t talking you guys are freaking out and sending emails to the government. So if the government enacts back to work legislation and we go back on Monday, what would you do then?

  56. yorkstrike2008

    I will let everyone know when the interview is of course. It is still in the works with the producers. I will try and represent you guys as much as possible. I am in a position of great responsibility here and I am just one 20 year old universitu student who is trying really damn hard to act accordingly also, I REALLY like to have a protest date to announce over the air.

    I just cannot stress this enough it is week 4!!!!!!! Of this strike and no one is talking. We are well on our way to a nice 11 weeker if we don’t do something soon. Learn from the past!

  57. end the strike now

    yorkstrike2008,

    what interview?

  58. @TA’s Opinion, and others

    I hope you’ll communicate to the union what a Godawful decision it was to employ people to write the union’s perspective on message boards. For one thing, people will advocate for the union anyway (such as yourself); for another, the existence of the professional spokespeople calls the credibility of all union advocates into question.

  59. anonymous

    I tottaly agree with T.A.’S opinion…being truthfully honest do you guys think a protest will get you guys anywhere? as many can see these protests by yorknothostage.com has done absolutely nothing dont you guys feel that this is just one big waste of time? The fact of the matter is no matter what us undergrads do nothing will happen…my opinion…just let this strike take its turn because no protest will help conclude anything

  60. Thomas Malloy

    I think its foolish to assume that CUPE are the only ones paying people to propagandize.

    Let’s not forget what the media relations people are getting paid by York.

    4 weeks, 11 weeks – there is little difference. Most people are only at York to get a degree, and the Dean has said in writing that would never be jeopardized. What else do you need? CUPE are going to push this strike until York believes they will go 11 weeks (which I have believed all along) or CUPE themselves give up and take whatever is on the table at that second.

    The whole situation is shit- CUPE is using their power – a power that York gave to them. Maybe if undergraduates want to go around demanding things, they should demand higher tuition to pay for tenured faculty and smaller class sizes. As you can see, when you pay 20K/year+ (like Osgoode students) you tend to have more ‘rights’. Learn a lesson, and get some more jobs to pay for what you really want. Why assume you have a right to anything – you are literally getting what you have paid for.

  61. TA's Opinion

    @ anon.

    Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think undergrad organizing is a waste of time, at all! I think Yorkstrike2008 (who I’ve already said deserves a medal) has an excellent idea about protesting outside the next bargaining meeting. Why? Because then rather than the two sides feeling like their in opposition, they’ll be in that room feeling like one group with you guys in the opposition against them both, and that might help them to work a little more cooperatively towards a settlement! I also think concerned students should absolutely write angry letters to all their politicians – I’m just saying think strategically about why they will listen to you. My point is that nobody cares as much as you do (exept maybe the media, for a second) that it sucks that nobody cares about you, so that’s not an effective basis for complaint. No one will be as outraged by that fact as you, and maybe your mom. Politicians will need other reasons to motivate them. Come up with some.

  62. Student

    Please run spell check on the letter.

  63. theowne

    Dear CUPE members and TAs, kindly go and spread your propaganda elsewhere.

    I really don’t care if your cause is noble or not. I come to this site to get news on whether my education and my future is going to be SCREWED UP or not because of your extended strike.

    I don’t come here to read extensions of propaganda published by CUPE (or the university, for that matter). Kindly respect that.

    Note: I would say the same thing to any university defender.

  64. Anon

    Oh no guys, we’re being trolled!!!

  65. Pally Wally

    You would, or you are saying that? Because I see a lot of university defenders around and not a lot of you piping up against them.

  66. Kelso

    I agree with Theowne…
    This blog has become a war zone, people throwing words at each other like it will solve anything. I think we should all take a moment to cool down and re-read what we write before we hit ‘Submit Comment’ and see if it is really worth it. What do you gain by bashing each other?

  67. Soraya

    So I just heard that apparently both sides are meeting tomorrow. Anyone have information?

  68. ram

    REALLY!!! please someone tell whether what soraya says is true or not.. I do not want something significant to happen at this point and sit in class next week.. are they meeting tomorrow??????

  69. Hullo

    This is bs. You shouldn’t have done this. I thought this site suppose to be neutral… WTF

  70. Cupe Doll

    Wow. CMWC outs as too fanatically unstable to handle dissent. Best s/he keep away from anything pedagogical requiring critical reasoning. Like university.

    Seriously. Congrats. You guys are starting to get organized. And anyone complaining that standing up for yourselves abrogates their rights is being unbelievably hypocritical. After how they kept saying how justified they were to abrogate your rights in order to hype theirs.

  71. Ridculous

    Just checked the university website about a meeting and nothing is posted but I did find this:

    SENATE

    Notice of Meeting

    to be held at 3:00 pm. on Thursday, December 11, 2008 in the
    Robert McEwen Auditorium, Schulich School of Business, Keele Campus
    Agenda

    1. Chair’s Remarks (Nov 27, 2008)

    2. Minutes of the Meeting of November 27, 2008

    3. Business Arising From the Minutes

    4. Inquiries and Communications

    4.1 Report of the Senators on the Board of Governors (Synopsis of December 2 Meeting)
    4.2 Report of the Colleague to the Council of Ontario Universities (COU Update)

    5. President’s Items

    6. Committee Reports
    6.1 Executive
    6.1.1 Nominations for Election to Senate Committees
    6.1.2 Summary of Actions Taken Before and During the Disruption of Academic Activities
    (For information)
    6.2 Curriculum and Academic Standards
    6.2.1 Establishment, Master of Financial Accountability Degree: Statutory Motion
    6.2.2 Establishment, Master of Financial Accountability Program
    6.3 Academic Policy and Planning

    7.Other Business

    May be we should protest the senate meeting or invite mps to represent our rights as student during the academic disruption?

    And Maybe we can brain storm a reasonable list of what we want to know such as:
    1) Timeline of Consequence to Disruption
    2) Timeline to include possible school overun in to summer (jobs/family commitment)
    3) Financial impact (refund if term is scrapped?)
    etc.

  72. Ridculous

    Oh forgot:

    4) Concerns of graduating students
    5) Nursing/Social Work/Education students to internships, etc.

  73. ere

    meeting? who is meeting? any links??

  74. Basil El-Salviti

    Yorkie
    December 4, 2008 at 1:29 pm

    @ CUPE w/kid

    Thank you for participating in this edition of “Meltdown Thursday”. Have you taken your ball and run away home while declaring victory and the live long day? Or can we expect another post in 15 minutes about how you won the debate, see ya later?

    Hope you don’t teach your child to act that way.

    Maybe you should let the adults talk. Just watch and you might learn something – a lesson which your child can learn as well!

    Your comment is completely disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    We all have our opinions, but to bring this persons child into this is absolutely sick. How could you even THINK that this comment was appropriate? I don’t give a rats ass who you think you are – a disenfranchised student, a relatively underpaid (and part-time) TA, or a professor scared to his their job – you had NO RIGHT TO BRING THE PERSONS CHILD INTO THIS.

    CUPE MWC’s insight was incredibly useful, whether you agreed with the position the person brought or not! Just KNOWING what was going on was good enough, was it not?

    I believe you ought to apologize.

  75. RN

    @Soraya

    Where did you hear that?

  76. Basil El-Salviti

    Just in case somehow some of you missread the above, it is directed to Yorkie’s comment to CUPE MWC.

  77. ams

    done and done! will do so everyday!

  78. B

    @Soraya – sources please! “I just heard…” is in no way credible without them.

  79. F-Ed Up

    @ Ridculous

    I like the idea of demonstrating for information.

    I only have two main concerns:
    1) I’m afraid that people will misinterpret this as a partisan demonstration against the admin. This would weaken the numbers in attendance because we would lose admin supporters (when, from what I understand of your comment, this is actually just about gaining more specific info regarding the consequences of the strike)

    2) In regards to point #5, I am not sure how it works for Nursing/Social Work students, but for Education students our placements have been suspended by the Ontario Teachers Federation (mother of all teachers unions), not by the University, so they will not be able to provide any information regarding practice teaching time lost and the consequences of that. Nor are Ed students *officially* looking to get back into pracs during the strike because we understand the nature of the OTF.

    I would certainly be interested in taking part in this. I understand that they cannot offer specific details about outcomes until the strike has ended (since it will only be then that they know how long it will go, obviously) but I am glad to see it framed as an issue of “timelines” – this is something I’d asked about earlier on this blog and I’d love to get some sort of timeline of consequences from the senate committee.

    I am not overly confident that we will get anything other than a shifty covering-our-butts-just-in-case answer (not meant as a partisan comment – just the nature of the game) but I think it’s at least worth a shot!

    @ Kelso

    Couldn’t agree more. And I know sometimes I could stand to do that as well.

  80. Soraya

    @B

    My friend was talking to one of the college’s Masters. Apparently some kind of meeting is being held tomorrow. I don’t want to mention names because I could be misinformed but I wanted to know if anyone else had heard anything…

  81. RR

    I agree with Basil El-Salviti, you have jeopardized the top notch communication forum this blog page once was- we are all stressed and under pressure, I don’t believe that anyone on any side is feeling fantastic right about now.
    Cupe MWC and anyone else out there who might be reading, we can get no where this way if we do not work and communicate together. I know we can all piss eachother off with our respective positions, and may have off nights and short fuse comments once and awhile- but lets not walk away from eachother when we need unity the most. If we cant keep this forum going, I don’t think there is any hope of any of us getting anything done over this.

  82. RR

    i mean, who wants to have to rely on that awful anti strike page or the infrequent updates to get through this?
    Lets work together

  83. F-Ed Up

    @ RR
    “I know we can all piss eachother off with our respective positions, and may have off nights and short fuse comments once and awhile- but lets not walk away from eachother when we need unity the most. If we cant keep this forum going, I don’t think there is any hope of any of us getting anything done over this.”

    I’m in wholehearted agreement with you.

  84. Yorkie

    @Basil El-Salviti

    My name isn’t “CUPE Member with child”.

    CMWC has already brought his/her child into the debate by virtue of their very name and arguments about their family hardships

    You should be disgusted with CUPE member with child for hiding behind his/her child and bringing this supposedly real but likely hypothetical tyke into the conversation in the first place.

    See “Appeal to pity” and “Argumentum ad lazarum” for further examples of this, Mr. Internet White Knight Syndrome (google it)

  85. Basil El-Salviti

    @ Yorkie

    To your initial point….clearly, your name isn’t CUPE MWC, and I never once called you that….you clearly missread what I wrote.

    Also, the persons name doesn’t immediately make their child legitimate to attack. You unfairly brought the kid in, when CUPEMWC didn’t once bring the child into this other than with the name. Who cares about the name, your logic makes it okay for someone to attack my sister or my future children just because my sisters last name is El-Salviti, and my childrens last name will presumably be the same provided they keep my last name….it is illogical.

    You still owe CUPE MWC an apology, in my opinion, and should learn to be civil and polite in this room.

    That goes for everyone else, too. Why would anyone want to take us undergrads seriously if we act like a bunch of idiots?

  86. Yorkie

    @Basil El-Salviti

    So are you bringing your family into this as a talking point? Yes/No? CMWC has in the past.

    My comments are valid. CMWC acted in a manner which calls attention to herself and status. Why not say CUPE member as a name? Why not their own name?

    By having such an identification they set them self up as a symbol. Someone/something different from the rest of us poor shlubs. CMWC should not be, as deserves to be chastised, especially when they write things such as this:

    “If undergrads see the implications of back to work legislation as being irrelevant, then why should CUPE see undergrads as relevant?”

    AND

    “You may not want to “forget” to send me a thank you email for the letter I just sent you via email so that you can have your little interview.”

    AND

    “As for insulting your intelligence, I think I’ve been rather complimentary thus far.”

    Shine up that armor white knight. Run for those dragons

    (assuming female for the time being, pardon me if i am incorrect).

  87. ram

    So did anybody else other than SORAYA find out if there are talks tomorrow?? Please I request you to clarify this statement of hers. It is not possible to schedule a meeting without letting us / media know of it…. What does everybody else feel?????

  88. MR Two

    The york website still has the “no talks scheduled” bulletin

  89. RR

    @yorkie
    This comming from someone calling themselves “yorkie”!? Unless you are a type of dog I don’t think that is your real idenity so lets stop that line of argument right there.
    And stop your placating “assumptions” of gender, please spare this webpage of such specious retoric.
    Despite some of the statements made on here tonight, cupemwc has made this page better if not for the sheer advantage their info and insight compared to other forums of discussion. Ie the bias slant of anti strike aka anti discussion facebook page.
    Yorkie, if you cannot come on here in the spirit of open discussion rather than slander against valued posters then please seek elsewhere to post your comments; trust me, given the crap resourses we have as undergrads you will not have to look far.

  90. What?

    WTF? You want me to send this mesage to EVERY MPP? I know that this is an important issue, but why swarm the inbox of an MPP who, say, is located to the Northwest of Ontario? THIS, i say, is tomfoolery.

    you guys have gone mad. its better to do a limited number of things that will have high impact, than to do many things that will not cause much change. leadership 101 people!

  91. Ridculous

    @ Fed Up

    Maybe have a sit in either inside or outside the meeting, with only a small group or 1 student representing us as a whole asking to be added to the agenda. The way I envision it is students showing the senate that they care (by being there), and the representative(s) state what our needs/concerns are and that we want this to be taken into consideration when they deliberate on the effect of academic disruption.

    One concern for students is at what point are they better off scraping this year and finding their own if (possible) related employment then resuming next year. When, I hear stories of people possibly losing their house because the only budgeted for 1 full time year of school…Obviously, this is serious and they do need to be able to make informed decision.

  92. Soraya

    The whole tone of this forum seems to have changed if the past few days. When I was on here almost 24/7 people were actually friendly and discussing opinions/ideas. Seems like some of the people here are no better than York and CUPE if they can’t settle down and have an intelligent, rational conversation.

  93. Stef

    Pally Wally,
    How dare you insinuate that someone taking longer than four years to graduate is somehow a “fault”. There are a multitude of reasons for which this may happen, be it for financial, medical or family reasons. Sometimes things don’t fit in the box.
    Disgusting and closed minded.

  94. Basil El-Salviti

    @ Yorkie

    I still stand that CUPE MWC is owed an apology. Obviously, you didn’t understand my rhetoric…allow me to elaborate. I was suggesting that it is not fair to slander someones family, and I was suggesting that it would be unfair to slander my siblings or my future children just because they have my last name. See what I was saying? Sure, the name is symbolic. But if you have beef with me, you bring that beef to me…no one else

    In this case, with CUPEMWC, you brought the individuals CHILD into the picture. Why? To prove a point? Sorry, it didn’t cut it here. You should have attacked the points the individual made, and not made it a personal matter.

    Also, who cares if the individual shelters their name behind something else online? Perhaps they are trying to keep their employment by not showing off their name….you never know who creeps into these blogs, perhaps the person can’t AFFORD to have their identity shown for fear that their employment may be terminated for partaking in these open discussions. Think before you criticize.

    I ask you, once again, to apologize to CUPE MWC, as what you said was completely uncalled for. I find it amusing that you are STILL defending yourself when it should have been made clear by now that you at least offended myself, and one other person on this forum who commented against you (RR). Also, presumably, you deeply offended CUPE MWC. Therefore, an apology is in order.

    This goes to everyone else who blogs here. I blogged here a lot before, but suddenly I found myself lost in a wave of he said she said bullshit. I don’t think it really helps that we want to have a voice in this matter if we can’t even find consensus. Honestly people, stop the in-fighting and the false attacks on either the union or the university. Every critique we give should be based on fact-that is it, just fact. If we don’t know the facts, we ought to seek them out.

    Another thing…I am sick and tired of reading hypotheticals about how we will be losing our semester – or YEAR – as a result of this strike. Please people, courtesy of Yorkstrike2008 and myself, we’ve talked to Dean Drummond who confirmed NO SUCH THING TO OCCUR. We will be getting our credits and that’s that. That means, obviously, we will be going back to class. Don’t engage in hypotheticals….it’s the equivalent of fear mongering at this point.

  95. Basil El-Salviti

    @ Soraya

    Agreed.

  96. Still doing homework

    Soraya, I concurr..

  97. Ridculous

    @ Basil El-Salviti

    Quote: “Another thing…I am sick and tired of reading hypotheticals about how we will be losing our semester – or YEAR – as a result of this strike. Please people, courtesy of Yorkstrike2008 and myself, we’ve talked to Dean Drummond who confirmed NO SUCH THING TO OCCUR. We will be getting our credits and that’s that. That means, obviously, we will be going back to class. Don’t engage in hypotheticals….it’s the equivalent of fear mongering at this point”

    I hope you are not referring to my post which referred to approach the senate. In the event that you were I will clarify: timeline eg. strike till Jan 15 – Winter semester changed from Jan5 to March1 through to June 15.

    @ All, I think we should drop anymore discussion that is off topic and simply stick to the topic at hand or follow strickly follow the blogs intent: “This blog aims to provide a neutral atmosphere for discussions about the strike and serves as a medium for members to organise and define a voice for the undergraduate student population.” (taken from About Yorkstrike2008 page)

  98. Ridculous

    @ Basil El-Salviti

    Furthur clarification by knowing this timeline is crucial to those on a budget such a delay may cause them to only due their fall term this year and look for work full-time work in March and starting school again in September full time. This is what I meant some people have mortgages on the line.

  99. Basil El-Salviti

    @ Ridiculous

    I wasn’t aware of your timeline thing, to be honest. I was referring to the swarms of comments about how we’re going to lose the semester or the year, and if we do will the university refund us….it’s kind of getting old, and tedious to read. I just wish students could sift through the categories and search the history of this blog thus far, where they will potentially find the answers to such questions….

    There was another person who guessed the strike would end on January 15th. I thought this wasn’t helpful as it was based on absolutely no fact, just intuition. Intuition doesn’t cut it here….people ought to not speculate on an end date, and just try to prepare solutions to the issues.

    I am actually in agreement with you on a timeline IF it lasted until January 15th, because we must be prepared for the worst….if it lasted that long, we have to come as students to pitch our two cents to the bargaining teams. BUT, just because I agree with ought to prepare, doesn’t mean I am speculating it would end on that particular day, or on any day really….speculation either makes people anxious or lose hope. Let’s just keep an eye on the developments, and begin speculating based on facts…not intuition.

  100. Basil El-Salviti

    *to the above poster, I just realized your name is Ridculous, sorry for the typo.*

  101. Impatient

    Must agree, that was a low blow to cupe mwc, as she has been helpful in the past with updates before the union/university posts any, but be weary about saying she has not brought her kid in to the arguement, as she has before, if you dont believe me go read past discussions.

  102. TA's Opinion

    @ basil, soraya, rr, keslo et al.

    I don’t know if I’m a propagandist spoiling this forum, but I’ve just come back from a few beers with other TAs and having read all you posts, I need to backtrack on what I said above about self-interest. Sorry, this won’t make the strike end sooner.

    I didn’t take undergrads into full consideration when I voted to strike. I’m sorry for that. But I didn’t vote to strike in my own interest either. Unlike CMWC, I don’t have kids, so I don’t need childcare. I’m graduating soon, so I don’t need the benefits the future grad students will get. I have excellent teeth and so far, no carpal tunnel, so I have never once claimed a health benefit. But GAs, who are often science students, who tangibly seem to do more important work than me, like curing cancer etc, make less than me. And people 30 years older and way smarter than me, teach the grunt courses over and over again for years, but they don’t get the pension they pay into, because every summer they’re “de-enrolled” from the benefits plan, when those courses end. In the end, getting all rah-rahed up at the meetings, I didn’t vote in your best interest, nor my own, but in the interests of this other group with whom I share a mutual responsibility.

    My post above made it sound like community mobilization and political organization stems only from self-interest, and that was a very cynical view to promote. Your comments above have reminded me so, and reminded me how much we all teach other when we meet together on campus.

  103. Baloney

    CUPE 3903
    Go strike & get paid less – Check
    Make undergraduates paying for their housing & tuition suffer – Check
    Inconvenience undergraduates about to graduate – check
    Inconvenience international students – check
    Piss off Seneca students by picketing – check

    York
    Appear to be on the side of the undergrads while bashing union – check
    Don’t move on position but make it seem like the unions fault – check
    Make union demands seem unreasonable – check
    Ask for arbitration to “bring students back”, consequently making it seem like you care – check

    Hmmm…Great tactics on the part of the union, the university is suffering so much out of this is a wonder why they haven’t moved on their position at all.

    Seems you would have accomplished the same amount teaching class & just not grading, would have been a lot less stress on the undergrads though.

    You did succeed in one aspect though – making York look like a jackass place to go to school. Unfortunately, you’re still part of the faculty so that makes you guys jackasses too.

  104. Basil El-Salviti

    @ TA’s Opinion

    I’m not arguing that contract faculty don’t deserve job security. Indeed, there are those who subscribe to the unit 2 (I think that’s the one) bargaining team who rely exclusively on the university for work. Sheesh, it seems even I have more job security, and I’m a full time undergrad working part time at subway for God’s sake. BUT, you cannot feed me ideological bull about how this is all about wages, benefits, and job security…it’s not secret that a core to a good contract with the university is a 2 year contract. This is a given…and until York concedes, or the union concedes, that will still be a contentious issue…..

    You may not have voted with our education in mind, but surely you have to admit that your union hasn’t made the clear case to undergrads that we ought to support your ambitions. In fact, the union has had a terrible time with the press….and I imagine it will likely continue. How can you expect some students to be sympathetic to your cause without even articulating to us WHY we should….and if you think you’ve done a good job, I’m sorry to say that you haven’t.

  105. TA's Opinion

    No no, read my posts all over this blog, where I say I don’t think we’ve succeeded making our case. God knows, I’m trying to now, in a fair and truthful way, unpaid, BTW. But it’s a big, complicated case, and I wasn’t really even paying attention until a few months ago, so there you go. I was living my life, probably like you.

    I can tell you what I know/think about 2010 if you’re interested. All of the “ideolgical bull” things are related, and only a few of them end up relating to you or me individually. So it does become about whether you choose to keep you head down, get out, and do what’s best for yourself now, or look up, stay in, and try to do what’s best for the group. In 2010 maybe you’ll be out. Maybe you won’t. Does that effect your decision about it either way?

  106. Jafac

    My oh my, what a discussion this has become. And there are only a handful of comments actually pertaining to the original post. Personally, I will be doing the emailing. I’m not pro-union or pro-admin or pro-legislation, I just want the two sides to meet so we can get the hell back to school. Pressure from the government will us help accomplish this.

    As for some of the other issues that have come up:
    Yorkie, I’m sorry but I’ve gotta agree with Basil and a few others when they say leave the kid out of it.

    That being said, I’m VERY angry at the union for this cyber-picketing nonsense. This is how I see it: the blog is property of yorkstrike2008. Therefore, CUPE members being paid to picket here is equivalent to them setting up a picket line on yorkstrike2008’s driveway or private property. So unless yorkstrike2008 has given them permission to do this, I find this to be an outrage. Obviously this is a forum for discussing opinions, but a person being paid to propagate a certain p.o.v? That seems to run contrary to the spirit of the whole thing. But that’s just my $0.02.

    PS: Looking forward to that radio interview!!!

  107. Kat

    I can’t believe I actually read all those comments. Once again, this blog has been informative and entertaining. I can’t wait to drive on to campus today and see what “propaganda” a CUPE member has for me. At Glendon last week, a CUPE member handed me their comic and told me to “enjoy the propaganda.” These are exciting times.

  108. student

    The offense that some of you took to this is a bit ridiculous. Petitioning MPPs for back to work legislation doesn’t mean it will actually initiate back to work legislation, it’s just an exercise in democratic rights. If it does happen to bring about back to work legislation then you have just as much right – heck you can do it now – to petition those very same MPPs against it.

    Keep in mind that Queens Park breaks for the holidays sometime next week and the chances of having an emergency session for this issue aren’t all that good. Whichever side you support on this issue, voice that opinion now.

  109. Yorkie

    @ Basil El-Salviti

    Sorry, still don’t understand the issue here

    Haven’t identified anyone’s child, just said she/he was acting like one. As the name seems to consist of the world “child” i felt the comparison was apt. “Child” is not a meaningful identifier. Using the word “child” (if they even exist) as a prop implies something. How have i even “brought them into it”?

    If were to say “I think that Basil El-Salviti’s [FAMILY MEMBER NAME] does the following…” I could understand your outrage. Instead I’m fine to sit here and keep reading how my comments were “amusing” or any other adjectives you feel the need to contribute to this spastic Meltdown Thursday thread.

  110. Relaxo-Grad

    So, I sent the email, more out of curiosity to see what would happen.
    I received this response this morning from Mario Sergio, MPP York West:
    __________________
    Dear (my name),

    Thank you so much for writing to me regarding this very serious situation.
    Although the Ministry of Training, Colleges and Universities has no direct involvement in the university collective bargaining process, I am very disappointed that the parties weren’t able to come to an agreement.

    I encourage the parties to keep the best interests of the students in mind and continue to work towards a resolution as soon as possible. I have been in contact with the office of the President, and I will continue to monitor this situation closely.

    As you know, universities are autonomous institutions with responsibility for their own labour relations and human resource issues, including collective bargaining. Furthermore, each university is responsible for contingency planning and implementation in the event of a labour disruption. I would encourage you also to contact the university directly for details.

    The Ministry of Labour has assigned a mediator to the arbitrations; and we will continue to raise the issue in the Legislature. On November 25th, 2008 I raised the issue in the Legislature. Please find the transcript attached below.
    Thank you again for writing, please accept my warmest personal regards.

    Mario Sergio, MPP York West

  111. As a parent of a York University undergraduate student I as well sent that letter to all of the MPP’s. Do you students want to get back into class? If you make SOME NOISE!!!!! This time off isn’t a vacation but a time to scream and let them hear you. For 50,000 students to be off and only 100 students show up downtown is disappointing as a parent. I received the same response from Mario Sergio.

  112. ram

    Soraya was right… There is a bargaining team (of the union) meeting today… It is given in CUPE strike site as one of today’s agendas..I do not know if they are gonna come down further in their demands or remain where they are

  113. ram

    Soraya was right… There is a bargaining team (of the union) meeting today… It is given in CUPE strike site as one of today’s agendas..I do not know if they are gonna come down further in their demands or remain where they are.. But they are not meeting with the university today….

  114. QuitePissed

    Enough with the people who are defending CUPE. They are being ridiculously unreasonable by not accepting any offer at all. In this time of RECESSION which nobody can deny IS a reality at
    this point, they should appreciate their jobs or find new ones. Simple as that.

    Thank you for this site. It is a great source of info for us uninformed students during the strike.

    And I will be sending the emails!

  115. F-Ed Up

    re: the whole e-picketing thing…

    has anyone managed to prove that anyone else here is e-picketing? on what basis have these accusations been made?

    (Just curious – please no attacks re my questions, I’m just wondering)

    @TA’s Opinion

    If beer brings clarity we should set-up a keg at the next bargaining table! 🙂
    I do understand what you are saying, though. I was faced with a strike mandate vote last year at another institution (and to everyone else: no I am no longer in CUPE nor have I ever belonged to CUPE Local 3903, so I am not an e-picketer, just an Ed student) and I just didn’t attend the meeting because I couldn’t vote either way without my concience kicking the crap out of me. Not that not voting was a good solution – just that I felt that I would be screwing over a group of people whom I cared deeply about either way: my students or my colleagues. It’s a tough decision to be faced with. Luckilly the negotiations were successful so we did not have to go on strike. I dread the day when as a teacher I’ll be faced with the possibility of being part of another strike which effects students.

  116. Its really unfortunate how students are split on the issue, Polls at http://www.yorku.me/me show that we have a 50% split on who supports Arbitration and who doesn’t…

  117. @Yorkie: You’re awesome.

    @Basil: This is the internet. Making Yorkie apologize won’t really get you anywhere. He/she didn’t implicate the child in anyway, and it really wasn’t that insulting. Besides, because this is the internet, the child might not even exist.

    Also, I’d probably just spam filter all those emails to be honest – straight to JUNK. It could get in the way of my Amazon confirmation email for my purchase of “Outliers”. Oh wait, I would never buy that crock of crap.

  118. yorkstrike2008

    I know that us losing our year or semester won’t happen if you can afford it. This strike puts a lot of different pressures on people and perhaps the main is financial. I know many people who have already bailed out of this year to go find jobs and try again next.

    I wanted to make the letter short and painful to get their quick attention.

    Guys, I must say I am really disappointed in many of the comments that were made here. Personal attacks on people are not welcome and unfortunately some of you have given me an entire afternoon of sifting through these comments and editing.

    Please remember to be courteous in these forums. Many people com here for information and surf these comments because a lot of you have productive things to say. Please keep this place clean and welcoming. I have put so many hours into yorkstrike2008, so for nothing else please do it out of respect for me and this blog.

    Thank you

  119. @yorkstrike2008

    I’m seriously contemplating a bail out. I work full time, so even when I’m in class I’m working. If there is a return to class sometime in the next year, it will drastically jeopardize my work responsibilities. I was already on a sabbatical from school for the 07/08 year, and coming back to end up out of school is just retardingly frustrating. RETARDINGLY ISN’T EVEN A WORD. I just don’t know if it’s worth leaving to have to do it all over again next year.

  120. Mr.X

    Is this strike over yet??! hahaaa

  121. yorkstrike2008

    This post is now closed for comments. Perhaps we can start over and be a little more civilised in the upcoming post.