Action to restart school in January (if need be)!

 

So I made a poll for us to gauge the opinions people have on school starting before January (if it happens at all). If it looks like the strike will end before that we can certainly get together and rally and send a petition to the President. I am sure the media would like to see that as well. 

YorkStrike2008

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206 Comments

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206 responses to “Action to restart school in January (if need be)!

  1. Artem

    school will start whenever the strike ends… this is not up to us

  2. ams

    FOR ALL THOSE CONCERNED THAT they will have assignments due, midterms ASAP, THAT WON’T happen if classes resume now.

    As my Prof told me (so it is a good source),

    the school can not do that to you. Just like there’s a senate policy about not having any assignments due before exams, there are policies for this.

    When classes resume, the profs have to SIT down with the students and discuss and vote for a fair syllabus.

  3. ff

    what sucks is that if we lose reading week, i have a huge research assignment that has me going all over ontario to interview people that I will somehow have to figure out how to do at other times. ugh.

  4. Jon

    I’ll definately petition to push school back till January. I’ve lost most of my drive to do homework and I really don’t want to have to do any of it right before the holidays.

  5. ams

    Jon, I don’t think Uni will be sympathetic to lost drives.

  6. Sas

    Although i still have an essay to finish that was due 2 weeks ago, i’m extremely annoyed with the way things go and i wanna go back NOW. You guys are funny. If they told you the strike is going to last till January at least, you’d be pissed and complaining. If they tell you to go back to school on Monday – you’r still going to be pissed. It just doesn`t make sense

  7. nakul

    i don’t want the exams to start right away after the winter holidays. osgoode students will be having exams from january 5 i suppose,if that happens to us i know i am doomed.

  8. still doing homework...

    I vote other.. why?

    a) no matter what happens, i promise, student body unfortunately will not sway financial decisions

    b) selfishly, i’m screwed either way so.. it doesn’t matter what happens

    c) for the general student population
    to pushing back to january…
    con: trust me the compression and extention will be devestating to one’s time management and breaks…
    [if you had trouble keeping up with reading and assignments during this unwanted break, you most definitely will have problems while in school on a compressed syllabus]

    pro: don’t study during holidays (selfishly, i don’t care, I would have been regardless of strike or not)

    going back to class now

    pro: syllabus will be less compressed, there will be more time to alleviate course load

    con: study during the holidays… hey.. at least you have turkey and stuff with your food.

    personal opinion…

    the more the union reduces it’s demand the more useless this strike was… members of 3903 will be exposed as pawns

    the more york reduces it’s frugality and adamant behaviour.. they too will look like hypocrites…

    therefore.. hey:
    if we’re in school in the summer, yes, it sucks.. but optimistically (as someone mentioned earlier, much earlier).. at least it will be warm. York wind-tunnels suck horribly… anyone in school last year for week after week of snowstorms and not knowing if one had to actually go to that morning class in case school got cancelled? since york doesn’t ACTUALLY update by 5:00am

    PS did ANYONE (has anyone) read through bruno bettelheim’s Uses of enchantment.. because frankly, i hate it and it’s been my disease for the last week and a half … i think the amount of time i’m on this site today is a testament to how much I don’t want to do this assignment.

  9. ian

    i’d prefer school starting asap… but I want that reading week back!

  10. MAC

    I don’t think it will be very useful to go back to school before January at this point. If we go back by next Wednesday/Thursday that leaves less than 14 days to pick up where we left off and the only thing that will probably be accomplished the first class back is a new syllabus. I didn’t want the year to be extended any more than any other undergrad, but now that we have NO choice, why our Holiday season suffer? Just like the administration and the Union, we work to pay for school and i am certain a lot of student already planned to do so when they could between exams and afterwards. We also have FAMILIES as well! So what happens to people who planned to spend time with their families? Wether a student from Ontario or not this effects all of us. If the administration and union were inconsiderate about us to begin with, why should our CHRISTMAS and families suffer due to something WE had NOTHING to do with? I’m a quite fired up about this because i for one have family form out of the country coming to stay with me next week that i have not seen in 5 years. Considering i was supposed to be finished my semester next Thursday, i had already planned to be their guide. That is just an example. Students with flights home will suffer too because their flights will not be refunded and if they have to leave regardless, they will get put behind yet again! Have we not suffered enough? Did we ask for a three week break? NO, last time i checked, we didnt! We’re already screwed! So why not go ahead and get the students even more pissed than they were 3 weeks ago at 11pm when we found out we weren’t going to school Thursday!
    Thanks again!!!!!

  11. Like others have said above, we are not going to get a say in when we go back to school. If we come to see that the strike is ending, or has ended, by the time we submit the petition we will probably already be back in class.

  12. @Sas

    I agree with you. Beggers can’t be choosers!!!!!

  13. flafson

    I already had plans before the strike began, it will kill my entire semester if they resume school before January.

  14. Mike

    I 100% agree with MAC. I am really stressed out about all this.

  15. still doing homework...

    woops, i mean turkey and food with your homework.

    this whole thing, regardless of outcome, sucks, and i think everyone at the very least can agree on that.

    i don’t think one person on this site is actually thinking “yay”

  16. york’s hallways smell ,

  17. yorkstrike2008

    If there are a few thousand people saying “wait a minute – just because you and the union had a little sandbox tuffle doesn’t mean that we can be punished even more” The University is already a PR disaster. I am sure that enrollment will drop incredibly for next year. The last thing they need is a couple thousand students rallying in front of President Shourki aka. dolla bling bling aka. bangin rolls royce on 24’s office.

    They would be smart to call off the semester and restart in January. OR start now, don’t kill us with course compressions and give us reading week or there is going to be some new records for academic standings, drop out rates and (god forbid) suicide rates.

    University is tough. There seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel in the middle of february. Now imagine that plus, overloaded with work from compressed courses, couldn’t see your families because there was no confirmed of scheduled time off from classes at christmas and now NO READING WEEK!

    That is ludicrous. I will poop in a bag and light it on the President’s door step at least.

  18. josie

    yah i agree its definetely gonna be harder going back in January with the extended year and no reading week- its too bad. hope something will happen, and we’ll go back before january

  19. MAC

    Well , I am glad I am not the only one furious about this situation! This has made me even more ashamed to be a student at this University. Its bad enough to hear, “If you can hold a fork, you can go to York!”. I don’t really think this school needs an even worse reputation than it already has!
    I predict that if we go back before Januarey at this point at least 50% of students will say SCREW THAT, and go on with whatever holiday they have planned.

  20. suzie

    so if we go back in january,does that mean we’re gonna have to write fall term exams then?

  21. F-Ed Up

    While I am definitely suffering from a lack of motivation, I think that we’re at a point now where there will be very different outcomes for the various members of the undergrad community, whether we go back before January or not.

    For those who had already planned around their exam schedules (as many have mentioned) having to attend classes after they may have been expecting to be done their term would be unreasonable.

    On the other hand, I would like to know what will happen to my fall term courses sooner rather than later, and since I am a Consecutive BEd student I don’t have exams, and I had classes scheduled right up until the end of the exam period anyways.

    I voted “other” because I am very torn on how I feel (though I know reasonably that how we feel about this will not change the outcome).

    For some of us I/S Concurrent BEd students, we’ve now missed our first Practicum Block, meaning that if we want to send out job applications out in a timely manner (in January) we will not have a completed a single secondary school teaching practicum to include on our resumes. While many of us dread the idea of returning to practicum after several weeks without any contact with our host teachers or our students, it would be beneficial to us if we could complete this block in the final weeks before the schools start their holiday breaks. Our evaluators will take the fact that we’ve been absent so long into account, and this would allow us to include an actual completed teaching block on our resumes.

    I also do not want to risk the school year extending any further into the spring. For those of us whose job applications for September 2009 depend on the timely submission of degree transcripts and Faculty recommendations, we cannot afford any more delays to the end of the winter term. In the worst case scenario, an overly extended year could potentially result in the loss of job opportunities for an entire year for us, or at least in the shuffling of our applications to the “bottom of the pile” while the boards and the OCT wait for our documents to come in from York after every other Faculty’s docs have been submitted.

    There are no easy answers… I’m sure I’ll find something to complain about either way 🙂

  22. laura

    im hoping something will happen, and we’ll go back before january- cause then the year will be too compressed, and we will have no reading week.

  23. Rob

    I think that if the administration was to try to have classes in December than we should just have one class, to go over a new syllabus for January, to cover all of the assignments and exams and whatever.

  24. silent till now

    I’ve refrained from commenting all this time just hearing people’s opinions on the matter

    personally, I completely agree with those in favour of starting again in January. I’ve attempted (underline) to study during this strike but it’s real hard not having a deadline. The strike could have ended next week or even the next day…I need a set time so I can create a study schedule and know what needs to get done by a certain time. So although i’ve been studying from time to time..i wouldn’t say it was as productive as say a reading week would be, because of the unknown date of the strike ending.

    I say rock on to those who are in favour of starting January. We’ve waited it out already…might as well enjoy our holidays and start fresh during the new year

  25. silent till now

    My Prof’s have all told me that our exams missed during the strike will be held the first day back from the strike….is that true?…im so screwed…

  26. yorkstrike2008

    @Rob

    I think that would be a good idea. What a lot of professors should, and I hope will, do is scrap exams and have take home exams or assign another paper. I believe, I will look into this, that after 60% of the course graded (I think) the professor can hold a vote to call the course there. So if you have an A+ right there then you get that and if you have a C+ then you get that. Of course, this has its problems but that is a possible solution to some situations.

    @Mac

    York is getting a horrible rep. It has been plagued with violence, rapes, it is in a very rough area of town, it is enormous in enrollment and classes are huge and now this.

    I might have to go to Europe to get into grad school….maybe York degree will be de facto downgraded to a community college equivalent or, even worse, a Brock degree!

  27. Kelso

    We have had 3 weeks to work on things, and do readings, so if we have been sitting on our butts thats our own fault. All 5 of my classes have the readings assigned for the whole year, so I am not exactly lost. All of my profs said before the break that extentions will be made and do not expect anything to be due the day we get back from the strike. So what if our reading week is taken away? I’d much rather finish school the first week in May instead of making it go on wasting the money making time!

  28. F-Ed Up

    Haha to be fair… walking and talking is harder than holding a fork. Or, arguably, being a dork.

  29. MAC

    @silent till now
    Your profs can’t do that at this point, if the strike had ended last week, it would be true, but because it went into this week they must abide by the senate policy. From what i was told, assignment and tests were suspended with the strike and therefore we cannot be penalized. So it is ultimately up to the student to continue working or not due to the fact that due date and test dates have to be rescheduled and reworked. It would be unfair to go back and have a prof scream out “SURPRISE, YOU’RE WRITING AN EXAM”. I am certain some students have kept working and i am also certain that even more lost their motivation due to the frustration with the childish administration and teaching staff that WAS supposed to assist us in shaping our futures! Is that not what a prof/ta is supposed to do?

  30. MAC

    @laura
    even if we go back tomorrow reading week was out of the question as of week 3 of the strike hit! So the only hope of our reading week is if the semester is thrown and we start fresh in January. Sad, but true..

  31. An opinion

    If the strike is settled through a ratification vote from the Union membership, and the Senate and Faculty Deans decide to resume the academic year in December, then all the petitions and student rallies will NOT defer resumption of classes until the New Year regardless of whether the student body would rather enjoy their Xmas holidays with their families or follow through with their travel plans. This has been a very stressful situation for everyone involved, and I completely sympathize with the anxiety of the undergraduate students first and foremost.

    The University relies on governmental funding payments that are based on classes/academic sessions being maintained. For every day that the University remains closed whether it be due to a strike or even a snow emergency, these important funds are being withheld. York U has already lost a great deal of money as a result of this strike, and I would be very surprised if they would agree to postpone classes if any remediation of the Fall term is at all possible.

    That being said, I still have serious doubts about whether there will be time to ratify a possible settlement, convene the Senate, and allow for adequate notification of students (at least 24 hours).

    Even if classes do resume in December, students will not be penalized if they do not attend the makeup lectures. It will just put you at a bigger disadvantage when preparing for exams that will have to be held in January.

  32. ff

    I need these grades – so I will be pushing to have exams as soon as possible.
    Gah.

  33. silent till now

    @ MAC

    sorry for my confusion but im not familiar with the policy. So basically what you’re saying is that we cannot write our mid-terms although i missed one the day after the strike became official

    so basically when we get back (hopefully in January) we write our midterms…then have classes and then write finals? Because everyone here seems to be talking about finals. I got midterms left to write

  34. ams

    I honestly wished people would first talk to the ADMIN and their profs to hear the consequences.

    what YS2008 is doing is speculation.

  35. 1 out of 50,000

    This isn’t a decision whose consequences are isolated the the York community. There are factors such as grad school deadlines and whatnot that won’t make exceptions for York students not wanting to disrupt their holiday break or study drives.

  36. MAC

    @silent till now

    anything that was to take place or due after November 6 has to be reschdeuled. You won’t go back the first day and be expected to write a test. Our first day back will probabaly consist of venting about this strike.

  37. anonymous

    Here’s another article about today’s meeting:
    http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/544255
    Read the comments there too…

  38. flushafleshfarm

    If they are meeting again tomorrow that is a decent sign that things may be worked out soon. What is strange to me is the conflicting reports regarding the ratification process.

    Is this something that can be done over the weekend or is it more likely to take some time? Is a full meeting required with an official vote for ratification or is it done by straw? Does the union bargaining team have the power to override?

    No one seems to know the answer to these questions.

    If we don’t go back by the 1stof December, beginning any later begins to look dumb. For example, would they really send us back as late as Monday, December 15th? January is beginning to look like a logical “reset”.

    Judging by the early returns of your poll, YS2008, most of us would consider it a blessing. Are we owed or entitled to that kind of gift? I’d like to think so, but how do we get the message across?

    Spies from both sides, I know for a fact that you are here…….

  39. MAC

    @flushafleshfarm

    I agree with you completely.
    Even though CUPE’s demands are said to be revised and the Admin. is said to be consdiering them, was this all a matter that could have been settled in a day? IF that is true then we should have not been put through this to begin with and definately should not suffer over OUR holidays because of it. Im not saying i agree with the strike at all but if things are to be settled between York and CUPE, they should take their time with it in order to avoid this ever happeneing AGAIN, so that their undergrads should not have to be screwed around with every4 -5 years. God knows if i have children one day, this University will not even be an option.

  40. silent till now

    @ MAC

    appreciate it!

  41. MAC

    @ Sas

    “Although i still have an essay to finish that was due 2 weeks ago, i’m extremely annoyed with the way things go and i wanna go back NOW. You guys are funny. If they told you the strike is going to last till January at least, you’d be pissed and complaining. If they tell you to go back to school on Monday – you’r still going to be pissed. It just doesn`t make sense”

    The only thing i have to say is that if the strike took place before November no one would be comapaining like this. I dont know about you, but Christmas is not just a commercial holiday to my family. I don’t blame you for wanting to go back, but if the strike took place on October 6th and lasted 3 weeks, we wouldn’t be as frustrated as we are. Their timing has made this worse.

  42. Alright! They are meeting again tomorrow morning after a day of talks.

  43. sara

    JANUAry for eveeeeeeeer…Or NEVER…:D dats even better, then we can all transfer to U of T 😀

  44. amy doan

    @ Elle

    it seems like they are wrapping things up n this trike will be ended within this week

  45. Chrissy

    I have a flight booked for december 23th to go back home because that is the day my exams were suppose to finish. It is a non-refundable ticket…we have already suffered enough it is not our fault the university went on strike so we shouldnt have to loose even more money!!!!

  46. Chrissy

    ****dec 13th not 23rd

  47. school please

    Start in January????
    That’s ridiculous! I’d rather start now that way come January at least you have a few classes out of the way. And what about student placements for education and nursing students for the next semester? Those can’t be set up overnight, and missing them would be out of the question….the experience is necessary for graduation and success. First everyone complains they don’t want this strike and to get back to class…now we are trying to petition for a January start?!?!?!

  48. school please

    @ elle and amy doan

    does that mean school on monday 😀

  49. @amy

    I hope so! At the very least I’m glad to see that progress is being made. Woo 🙂

    You guys can check out the link to the update here:

    http://www.3903strike.ca/3903-negotiations-update-nov-27#more-627

  50. sam

    I wan this strike to end more then anything but I dont want it to end knowing were going to have to go back on strike again in 2010 (mabey). This is stupid and I think they should just settle whatever needs to be settled. I rather pay for it now then have to go back on strike as time passes. If its true that thy lowerd their demads by that much i mean IT WAS A WASTE THEY FOUGHT FOR NOTHING AND WASTED OUT TIME. If there going to strike then do it!!! Dont give in and waste our time.We as students have better things to do then to worry about this like study our butts off so we can get the hell out of school.

  51. Nady

    It has reached the point where I don’t care if school starts in December or January but I am tired of not knowing for sure. I am bothered by the uncertainty and do not appreciate being left on a limb like this. I just want to know a definite date of when school will start so that I can plan my time accordingly.

  52. pp

    somewhat of an update:
    “Today the CUPE 3903 bargaining team met with representatives of York University to restart negotiations for a fair and equitable contract, with a view to ending the labour dispute that began on November 6th. After a full day of talks, the two parties have agreed to meet again on Friday morning (Nov. 28) to continue with negotiations.”

  53. theowne

    The results of this poll are absolutely demoralizing to me as a York student.

    The 80% of people who voted to start in January shouldn’t be in university in first place. If you’re so demoralized to study and hate going to class, then don’t go to university.

    There are THREE WEEKS until christmas holidays. That’s three weeks of labs, tutorials, and lectures, which may not mean much to some of you, but means a heck of lot for science students and others.

    You’ve had FOUR WEEKS of loafing around, and if you cared about your education, you would have kept up and studied. It is NOT York’s fault that you didn’t. Now don’t punish the good students because you feel like this is so unfair.

    York went on strike. If this happened at UofT, I’ll bet you most of the students would continue to study, half would probably keep on studying ahead and keeping with the original schedule. Here at York, we have students voting to postpone classes EVEN FURTHER and talking about how they have part time jobs or are too demotivated to return to classes. These kinds of people should not be in a university.

  54. Mike

    Theowne, I agree with you that if people voted for that reason, it is irresponsible. I personally want school to start in January because I don’t live here. I am from Nova Scotia and I already booked a flight home as soon as I found out my exam schedule. I am extremely stressed out because I can’t get another flight and I don’t want to miss any class. Now I also realize that there are many unfortunate repercussions of this as well. There are no winners in this situation, regardless of the outcome. I agree with you that school shouldn’t be delayed due to laziness, but I don’t think it’s fair to group the entire 80% of the people that want school to begin in January as lazy, unmotivated students. There are many factors for both sides, it’s best not to simplify it as such.

  55. S

    Honestly speaking, some of us don’t want classes to resume, and some of us do.

    We were never asked permission for the strike, and nor did we EVER have any voice during the strike.

    I think that regardless of the fact that we don’t want classes to resume in December…the truth is WE still DON’T HAVE ANY VOICE!!!!

    They won’t ask us when we want classes to resume because they don’t care about us.

  56. MAC

    @theowne

    You have us all wrong.
    Its not a matter of us not wanting to go back.
    Timing is to be consdiered and there will be a max of 1-2 classes by the time we actually get back to class. We didn’t pay to be held hostage during the strike, we didn’t pay to lose our holiday and our family time and we sure as hell didn’t pay to possibly lose the jobs we are supposed to go back to mid April (in some cases) and whether we start next week or not…it doesnt make a difference, we just get more stressed, more frustrated, more furious going to school until Christmas Eve.

  57. YorkStudent

    I think its time WE, STUDENTS, went on strike!
    Honestly is it fair that we’ll be losing both xmas break AND winter break??

  58. Soraya

    “The 80% of people who voted to start in January shouldn’t be in university in first place. If you’re so demoralized to study and hate going to class, then don’t go to university.”

    “These kinds of people should not be in a university.”

    If I could swear, I would. These people, including myself, have voted in order to better our grades and education, not because we’re lazy or stupid (not everyone, but most). Like I said before, people have litterally been sick and stressed out over this whole mess. School was supposed to end December 3rd. I remember one guy said he booked a flight for the 10th because his exam was on the 9th. Now, he can’t go home because they’ve finally decided to talk. School should just start in January. Fresh and relaxed. Yes, some people have application deadlines, etc but so does everyone else. One way or another, everyone is screwed.

    And don’t assume what a U of T student would do. That is fair or right. You don’t know what the mass population @ York has been doing nor do you know what the student body @ U of T would do.

    If someone does start a petition, do it asap and include full name and student number.

  59. MAC

    No, it isn’t.
    We don’t have a say in any of this when we really should…

  60. Soraya

    *NOT fair or right

  61. S

    We don’t have any say…that’s a fact, what have we done during this whole strike other then complain about everything going on, neither the union nor the university have asked US what WE would like…it seems as if the majority of the students on this website want classes to resume in January, but whose to say anyone is even listening?

  62. MAC

    It is not right to call us lazy because we refuse to be toyed with any farther than we aalready have. If you want to be a puppet go ahead, we have rights too and if we want to be A$$holes now, we have every right to be.

  63. YorkStudent

    @ theowne
    Its not that we did now study or do not want to study. Its just that some of us have made plans ahead of time that we can’t afford to lose.
    Some of us work during xmas and not working means no eduaction.
    Some of us have payed 200o$ for tickets home to see families.
    Personally, I think, all us HERE are those that CARE a lot ( more than others) about our education.

  64. B

    whatever happens, it’s pretty certain that we students are screwed either way here.

    The admin and the union could care less about us despite their repeated claims otherwise. Students are mere numbers and dollar signs.

  65. York Student

    How can we address this petition to York?

  66. Soraya

    Start it up tonight.

  67. MAC

    Trust me, there are enough spies on this site they know how we feel and what we want. They just choose it ignore it.

    @YorkStudent

    thanks for that comment because i work my ass off to pay for school and all of this sure as hell puts a lot of stress on me! I am currently enrolled in 27 credits and working 35 hours a week and trust me that is still not enough to pay for school, pay my expenses and have a bit left over with myself. The money i make on my breaks help me A LOT and just because i am on strike does not mean that i can be squeezed in where i work.
    so how dare anyone have the balls to call me or any one else lazy when i go to school 15 hours a week + library time + my one internet course and work 35 hours just to be there. Shame on you!

  68. jerrard

    @MAC
    As a union member, I feel sorry for the position that the undergraduate students are in. This certainly will not help to ease pressure, and will probably mean that holiday plans are interupted for many people.
    As a TA, I too have been paying tuition throughout the strike, have had my studies interrupted and have not been made enough money to even cover rent. My holiday plans will also be interupted. I may not be able to attend academic conferences on reading week. Like many undergrads looking to move on to grad school/medschool I too am worried that the strike may make it more difficult for me to finish in time for a post doctoral position .
    I highlight our similarities (and in some ways how some TAs may even be affected more negatively) to illustrate the point that this is not something TAs wanted to happen. Despite all of these negative consequences, the idea of not forcing action still seemed much worse, for us and future grad students and contract workers.

  69. Soraya

    & I remember yorkstrike2008 saying there are 23,000 unique ips that come to this site regularly or daily. This petition could seriously mean something.

  70. B

    …or go the way of most petitions and achieve squat.

  71. MR Two

    LOL @ Theowne – seriously, what an ignorant thing to say. First off, I think the vast majority of the people on this site are here because they are STRESSING about this strike and how it will affect their marks, etc. Alot of people rely on christmas break more than summer to pay for things – it’s a short but busy break in the middle of the school year in which alot of money can be made in a short period of time. This money is crucial to alot of students.

  72. F-Ed Up

    Is this whole idea of missing our “winter break” fact or fiction? I don’t remember reading this anywhere in the senate policies and I would assume that it isn’t actually possible for them to cancel that break at such short notice…

  73. amy doan

    @ MAC

    how could u survive thru all these overwhelmed workloads? I guess ‘there is a will, there will be a way’! im impressed !

  74. school please

    christmas break is still happenning, its just been shortened. either way if we start in december or january that takes away from either xmas or summer holidays. it comes down to which one would one rather sacrifice

  75. school please

    cp24 said that we may miss are readng week, but thats the only place i read it

  76. ram

    well said MAC. I appreciate you. i am also equally committed student. I just cannot study properly within the short span of 2 weeks before the official closing date. I have already booked my tickets for christmas vacation. I cannot be studying during that time. Its unfair if i would be asked to do so and come back for exams. At least i would expect sometime to prepare and get the best results for the exorbitant money that i pay for my studies. We at least have that much right. SO STOP CALLING US LAZY… Let us be united in this..

  77. school please

    *our reading

  78. sam

    One would think that york would post something letting their students know what is going on, this just shows how disfuctional their practices really are. Keeping students informed of the situation should be their top concern. And i would rather have a shortened summer break then christmas break because the summer break is fairly long anyways

  79. Commuter

    @ theowne

    “You’ve had FOUR WEEKS of loafing around, and if you cared about your education, you would have kept up and studied. It is NOT York’s fault that you didn’t. Now don’t punish the good students because you feel like this is so unfair.”

    I did just that… in fact I’ve done readings to the point where my eyes are bloodshot, and I voted YES.

    It’s not fair to someone like me who works hard to get NO break. I’ve worked non-stop the past 3 weeks. And I’m gonna work non-stop when we get back. And what about the Christmas Break? You guessed it, working non-stop to study for exams. Then what happens after exams? You guessed it, working non-stop till the end of the school year.

    I have my glasses on, and I don’t see any breaks fitted into that schedule. I voted YES for my mental well-being.

    Don’t be so quick to call me a person who shouldn’t be in a university.

  80. ram

    Please start the petition as soon as possible. I am sure there are so many students who are in support for our view points…

  81. Mike

    I am 100% willing to give up a few weeks in the summer. Summer is four months, Christmas break is only a few weeks long. I am willing to bet that more students will lose money from losing their Christmas break than they would if their summer was shortened a few weeks. Flights are already booked, plans have been made. To those that have deadlines and/or specific summer plans, I am sure some accommodations can be made. The needs of many outweigh the needs of the few.

  82. Soraya

    link to start one:

    petitiononline.com/create_petition.html

  83. Soraya

    Also, York would start classes asap. Classes can go up to the 23rd.

  84. MAC

    @ amy doan

    to be honest i dont know how i do.
    but i sure as hell want my time with my family at the one time of the year we all make time for each other, because its the only time i dont think about bullshit like this because i dont have to!

  85. F-Ed Up

    @ Sam
    Usually I would agree, and given Commuter’s response, I definitely understand. But this year an extended Winter term doesn’t just mean a shorter summer for me… it means the possibility of missing out on a window for job opportunities in a highly competitive field… meaning I’d be taking my BEd to Starbucks or Home Depot until September 2010!
    In a way I hope that the strike does end, and that they let us return in January, but the Faculty of Ed lets its students return solely to their placements until Xmas… I’ll keep dreaming.

  86. Curious Yorkie

    While I seriously doubt that the university will postpone the start of classes till January… I have to say that if classes do start next week, its going to be a helluva ride for all of us. i was just talking to a prof of mine today and he said they will just compress everything and prolly ask us to submit all/most of the remaining assignments by 23rd.

  87. F-Ed Up

    @ Mike

    “To those that have deadlines and/or specific summer plans, I am sure some accommodations can be made. The needs of many outweigh the needs of the few.”

    It would be interesting to find out if the number of people with travel plans out-weighs the number of people in professional programs, or planning to do post-grad studies…

  88. Erin

    You know what I agree. I did not pay to go to school in December and spend their Christmas and new years studying for exams. When do we students get the payback or the influen ce in decision makign for how our money is spent? They take our money and then dictate to us how we are supposed to learn and how mch we have to sacrifice. It’s just not fair.
    They don’t even tell us what’s going on and when were going back to school. How am i supposed to know what to tell my boss about how mch I can work?
    Bastards

  89. school please

    yes summer break is longer, but I am a student who is required to take a 15 credit course load in the summer, work part-time, attend my clinical placement and travel to york. You see I don’t get a summer break at all. An already condensed session for me, is going to be even more challenging. My placements change every semester and I can’t continue with a placement from a previous semester, that can’t be done overnight, neither by the hospital or university. This is why I’d rather complete a couple of weeks now and then finish off the rest after January. Either way we have to study over the holidays, whether classes continue now or then, being away from material for almost 2 months has its effects.

  90. Commuter

    @ Curious Yorkie

    I’m not really worried about submitting things before the 23rd. I’ve done all my assignments.

    What does aggravate me is the fact that we won’t have a break from Dec. 23rd – May. And if you’ve read my earlier post, this strike wasn’t a break either.

  91. Curious Yorkie

    😦 I agree, Commuter.
    At this point, all we can hope is for York to not give in to CUPEs 2 year demands so that classes dont start immediately.
    sigh! 😦

  92. school please

    I agree it’s unfair they we’ve been treated this way, but either they decide for us. They’ve got our money (well only the half of mine hehe) and they know that at least some students will follow, the others that choose not to…they don’t care.

  93. school please

    *the way we’ve been treated

  94. jonah

    just posted on the CUPE website

    Today the CUPE 3903 bargaining team met with representatives of York University to restart negotiations for a fair and equitable contract, with a view to ending the labour dispute that began on November 6th. After a full day of talks, the two parties have agreed to meet again on Friday morning (Nov. 28) to continue with negotiations.

  95. george

    the poll allows you to vote multiple times. can you correct that?

  96. Commuter

    The following was posted on Facebook by a student:

    “Since the Professors are still working right now, they must be guaranteed to not have classes to teach after December 3rd. There break is in the contract then. At least that’s what my professors are saying. I could be misinterpreting them wrong, but yeah, since they have a contractual cease of teaching on December 3rd, and since they are still working right now, they are entitled. So there isn’t any way they can go back to classes now anyways.
    We just have to wait for January. I could be wrong, though.”

    If that’s true, that gives this argument some merit, especially for the people calling us lazy for not wanting to go back, does it not?

  97. ram

    hey commuter, if it is given in the professor’s contract then why did osgoode plan to have classes from december 1 to december 19? do they not have the same one?

  98. Soraya

    We have exams in December. If I remember correctly, my profs have been at each of my exams. It’s not like December 3rd hits and they say, “seee you in January, I’m going to Cuba!”

    As much as I would like to believe that facebook comment, I don’t think it holds.

  99. Mike

    Commuter, If that is true, they really should have told us that right away. There isn’t enough “what if” information available.

  100. Commuter

    @ ram & Soraya

    I didn’t make it up- I just report it. I have no idea if it’s true or not.

    Maybe IF (and that’s a big IF) there is some kind of clause, it stipulates the professors don’t have to TEACH beyond Dec. 3rd? That would at least support the quote I had, as well as your argument of having to supervise the exam.

    @ ram

    Looks like that very question has been raised on the Facebook group.

  101. Soraya

    Oh, I know. Wasn’t trying to make you look bad or anything like that. Was just putting in my $0.02 🙂

  102. Commuter

    Now that I re-read that comment, the guy who wrote it said they have a “contractual cease of teaching on Dec. 3rd” according to his profs.

    That validates my assumption of them not having to teach, but having to be present for the exams.

  103. Muneeb

    I want to transfer to u of t im in my second year at york, is it still possible to do so, i need some advice, i dont care if i loose some credits, thst ok as long as they r the ones not the best grades.

  104. Muneeb

    the reason y i didnt choose u of t was that most of my frends went to york even tho we were all accepted at u of t but i dunno y, n the second reason was i wanted to start school in january due to a grave personal reason i couldnt wait n u of t didnt start semesters in jan.

  105. gina

    Look everybody has a different situtation and I really resent those who think they are better because they have so call more important plans “grad” etc., nobody knows other peoples lives and some of us haven’t seen our family in years and are now finally getting a chance to visit. It isn’t fair to say Christmas is not important or summer etc., York has effectively screw us over yet again. And stop calling people lazy just because we don’t wake up breathing school does not mean we don’t care. At this point it does not matter Dec or Jan or whenever there is going to be angry people in every situation.

  106. B

    There is likely something in their contracts that makes exemptions for things like strikes and require them to teach past December 3rd.

  107. does anyone know if the exam sched. will be changed? I have one in early december and I would like to know what to do. could they dismiss what we haven’t learned on the syllabus and carry on with exams as schedueled? Any help would be appreciated.

  108. bee

    I spoke to a former teacher today, who has been a part of strikes before, and I was told that if the union and university come to an agreement, the union has to have the members of the union to vote on the agreement. If the agreement is voted for, the union then sets a date to return to work. Perhaps then the petition (if one is created) should be sent to the union as well. However, I am no expert, and am not sure if this info would be true for this case…

  109. silent till now

    @ theowne

    you should have gone to U of T then….

  110. anonymous

    this post seems to be somewhat useless as we still do not even know what is going to happen tomorrow!!! we are getting a little highped up and there was no conclusion today as one member posted earlier the union proposed there new reformulation of a contract to the york administration and now york will be sleeping on it and we will see tomorrow

  111. WITH YOU PEOPLE. LETS GO BACK TO SCHOOL ASAP. IF WE GO BACK IN JANUARY WE’LL END SO LATE….LETS ATLEAST TRY TO GET 2 WEEKS OF SCHOOL DONE BEFORE CHRISTMAS SO THINGS GO BY QUICKER……CAN’T BELIEVE PEOPLE WANT TO WAIT TILL JANUARY. THAT IS SO FAR

  112. Basil El-Salviti

    I have to agree with anonymous. I also have to say that I agree with ams, one of the first posts on this thread….students need to stop being so fearful, the university cannot simply rush an assignment as you may think….it will be decided upon fairly.

  113. jack

    I don’t know what to make of this.
    I don’t understand why everyone is so spooked.
    Just because they met everyone is getting all sweaty and anxious.

  114. Basil El-Salviti

    Jack, I agree. No one knows what will end up happening.

  115. Tom

    @ Basil: I’m *personally* antsy simply because if they say “no, we’re not meeting any longer” and the strike continues, I can go make alternative plans. In my case it has little to do with finishing work/assignments.

  116. Commuter

    @ jack & Basil

    You should see some of the posts on the Facebook group. People are jumping for joy and crying, saying “we’re almost there”, “we can do it”, “it’s almost over now”, “I’m so happy”, “we’ll be back in class soon YAY”…

    All these people could be right, but…

    I wouldn’t count your chickens before they hatch.

  117. Basil El-Salviti

    @ Tom: With all due respect, we have had three weeks to do just that. Also, those assignments will not be due at the immediate instance we return to school….obviously, the course directors have to make adjustments that are in the favour of undergraduates. I think they would realize that this strike has screwed up enough.

  118. ff

    Facebook is so 2006.

  119. Basil El-Salviti

    @Commuter: I am NOT in the impression that we’re going back to class. I am cautious about my hope…I’ll wait for an actual official release.

    That being said, IF we got back to class, we wont have to hand in our assignments immediately.

  120. cabby

    ughhhh i really wish that we could just lock cupe, york admin, and the mediators into a room and let em duke it out..
    this is getting so ridiculous. their “progress” isn’t really progress. they’ve been in talks for months about this stuff. so… it took them 3 weeks into a work stoppage to make a new contract? please. the TAs are suffering just as much as we are, but in a different way. for the ones that rely only on TAing for income… clearly they’re not making any money. and apparently the york profs are screwed a bit too. due to the labour stoppage, it sounds like their benefits and health coverage go on hold as well. i could be wrong, this is just something i was told by my dental surgeon… a york teacher had to cancel her surgery because of the strike, and her benefits wouldn’t be available til it was all said and done.
    everyone has a valid point as to why we should or shouldn’t go back right away. for those who live close, or have vacation plans.. of course we want to go back in january — it means we don’t have to worry about school until the new year. but for others, who need to book work and flights home etc around school obviously want to go back sooner. personal opinion? restarting us in january would be alot easier for most of the student population. it means we can come into the new year with a fresh clean slate, and probably a little less stress. it also means that the union and york have more time to hammer out and kinks in the contract so that both sides are (somewhat) satisfied.
    however saying that, i understand how badly that would screw alot of us for working. i need to work full time in the summer to pay for school, bills, car insurance, etc. if we don’t get out until june… all the full time jobs will be gone. kids coming home from other universities (you know, the ones where they DON’T get into this kind of mess) will grab em and we’ll all get screwed. i’m a bit luckier than many students cause all my classes are year long.. meaning they can be condensed and my year probably won’t run too much over. but one of my best friends is in half year classes.. and apparently the university is considering just declaring the semester cancelled and making people take the classes in the summer (i could be totally wrong, i transferred to york so i don’t know the inner workings all that well yet). this screws over anybody who would be considering work.
    it’s almost like a pissing contest between yu and cupe, to see which one can out last the other. but i don’t think they quite realize the short term and long term effects this strike will have. enrollment for next year will probably plummet, and i’m willing to bet there will be a huge increase in the amount of transfers after all is said and done for this year. york’s the best school for my program, but after this i’m not too sure how i feel about it. we’re technically paying customers, we should have a right to our services.
    get on with it guys, before you screw more than just us over.

  121. Commuter

    @ Basil

    Oh, I know. 🙂

    I’m just saying everybody else seems to think for some reason that just because they are agreeing to meet and not storming out after 15 minutes, the strike is automatically over.

  122. Tom

    @Basil: Those plans *can’t* be made unless I know the status of the strike. I personally decided that if they drag this out I will first attempt to petition a deferral for a year (not likely to have an effect), and then, if worse comes to worst, drop my courses and head off for the year.

    There are *many* things I could be doing if I had a clue when things would end. I’ve even been given the opportunity to take up a managerial position at my workplace if I choose to work full time for a given amount of time. I can’t *guarantee* that, until they make some sort of statement to spur my choice (i.e. if things seem to be going nowhere, I’ll leave, but if the strike ends, I’ll stay).

    I’m really not concerned from the perspective of assignments.

  123. Soraya

    After all this, the regulars should go out for a drink. Wait, no, we’ll be too busy with school.

  124. Curious Yorkie

    @ Soraya,
    ahahahaha. Good one.

  125. ams

    “The 80% of people who voted to start in January shouldn’t be in university in first place. If you’re so demoralized to study and hate going to class, then don’t go to university”.

    I totally agree. “I’m not motivated” is not an excuse, the admins will just laugh at you.

    If you haven’t started to study, start now or you’ll be doing yourself a great disservice.

    That said, there are other circumstances such as planned trips, jobs, etc etc in which cases I can understand and support for Jan. classes.

    I just find it ridiculous that because an x amt of people are not motivated, my education has to be stalled.

    Your not motivated, I could care less. Lots more students who are very very motivated and would rather be in class ASAP.

  126. Hullo

    Yes this is wonderful. I will participate in the rally mate. Tell me when and where. Hell I will bring at least 20 ppl LOL

  127. Commuter

    @ ams

    I am very motivated, but I would rather have a break that is not spent studying for exams, because that’ll probably the last time I’d have off until the summer.

    I suppose I should have taken some time these last 3 weeks and used it as a break, but I was too focused on my work. My choice I guess, but I wish I took more time for myself.

    In fact, I’m doing work as I type this message. 😦

  128. Basil El-Salviti

    Well said ams.

  129. ams

    Commuter,

    yes, in those cases, I can understand. By all means, you deserve a break.

    It just irks me to read ppl want skool in Jan. because they are not motivated. WTF? Then don’t complain abt the strike and enjoy ur vacation.

  130. Frustrated Student

    Basically going back now instead of January will not benefit students at all. Face it people, Reading Week is already gone, even if we go back now, effective immediately, will not bring it back, but instead ruin your holiday which is meant to be spent with your family.

    What about the students that desperately need this time at Christmas time to work long weeks (30+) to obtain enough money to afford the upcoming semester when hours dwindle?

    What about those of us who have long purchased plane tickets to see family and loved once exam schedules were officially released prior to the strike?

    We shouldn’t be the ones to suffer here. Teachers and teaching staff alike SHOULD NOT have the ability to strike. Ever. Individuals like myself, have gone through three different strikes through our time in the Ontario education system. I’ve gone through strikes in elementary, high school and now university.

    This is not fair nor right to place our lives on hold like they have been and expect us to wait on our hands and knees for them to tell us when we can proceed with our plans for the future.

  131. Commuter

    @ ams

    I’m with you on that. 🙂

  132. yorkstrike2008

    So I have been pondering and reading all of your comments. I am going to tend to agree with everyone who says once the Admin and the Union come to an agreement classes will start asap. That, I unfortunately believe is inevitable.

    HOWEVER!

    Perhaps, it would be much more feasible and towards the same goal to have our objective be to keep Reading Week. Not only is it more feasible to get the admin to agree to but it makes the cause more accessible for those who have special arrangements for second term and more representative of all undergrad students. It just seems as though that would satisfy everybody here.

    The point of the matter is that we want the damn union and the admin to know that we are not sheep! We should not be herded around as such. The strike is a bad situation for everyone but they cannot resume everything like all is well and dandy.

    To have this movement we need a clear and well defined objective and constituency. I believe this is the most accessible demand, it is more feasible and will represent the most York Undergraduate students.

    We are not sheep and should not be treated like that.

    If the majority of you seem to agree I will go ahead and draft a petition tomorow and post it on here for reviewing.

    Good night everyone,

    YorkStrike2008

  133. amy doan

    right now, im no longer worried about if classes are resumed next Monday but how they would revise the course’s syllabus.

  134. Joshee

    I still voted ‘yes’ on January although it would personally benefit me if school didn’t go into summer. This is because I’m not just thinking about myself. International students have flights booked, and family to come home to. They pay so much tuition already, wasting their flight tickets would be dumb. People also need to work this season so they have enough to pay their skyrocketing tuition fees.

    People shouldn’t get too worked up over getting jobs/placements in time. Have faith that perhaps, even if you are in a few extra weeks of school, people can make it happen. Regardless, by the way it looks now, you’re losing part of the summer anyway, so people with deadlines would make/miss them either way. I still hope you can make them. It is possible, don’t lose hope.

    Osgoode students are going back to classes now but the York Senate has still given them a right to refuse to return to class. If they have that right, the rest of us should hopefully also get some sort of say… although the situation is different.

    Anywho, this is just a strike, not an earthquake. Be thankful for that.

  135. CUPE member with child

    A few things to point out if I may:

    1) Although some of you have various and valid reasons on exactly when you’d like to go back, there’s also a common sentiment that many of you are frustrated that you’re unable to make definitive plans for travel arrangements, family time, study time, etc. I understand this sentiment completely and I’m in exactly the same boat. I wish it were possible that the admin and union could tell us when it will be resolved and when/how classes will resume when it is, but it’s impossible for anyone to be sure. Neither York nor the union is not going to publicise plans on what “might” happen, since they honestly don’t know for sure when this will be resolved.

    2) The fact that the union and university met all day today and plan to reconvene tomorrow is a very positive sign. Up until now York’s side has been willing to negotiate very little, so it looks like they might be seriously considering the union’s offer. This might also be a very good sign for the union because the 20 priorities that they returned with are by far the meat and potatoes of what they were asking for in the first place. No doubt they will have to meet somewhere in the middle, but I’m glad that York is finally at the bargaining table without walking out after 15 minutes.

    3) It is true that whatever agreement is made between the bargaining team and York will still have to be ratified by the union’s membership. So don’t expect to be back at school monday – it won’t happen. It’s also a possibility that York and the union’s bargaining team won’t come to an agreement tomorrow, but the university will make an offer nonetheless and force the union’s general membership to take a vote on it (this clause is included in the bargaining process in the event that York believes the CUPE bargaining team to be holding the rest of the union hostage. However, York can only force a vote once, and if the union rejects their offer then York must thereafter first reach an agreement with CUPEs bargaining team before the general membership votes on it). I have a bit of a sinking feeling that this will happen. York’s bargaining team and media relations teams have been very cunning during this labour dispute and I have little doubt that they’ll even try to circumvent CUPEs bargaining team if they feel they can get away with it.

    4) Last, I think the most effective way that you can probably lobby for assignment and exam deadlines that you feel are manageable and respectful to you as undergraduates who have been disrupted during the strike would be to do so as a class with each individual instructor and their TAs. Given the length of this disruption, I hope the university and its professors will be sympathetic towards arriving at such arrangements democraticly.

    Best to all.

  136. Commuter

    @ amy doan

    They would have to consult the students first, and have the students’ consent to make the changes they propose. It will be fine.

    @ yorkstrike2008

    I’m all for that. Reading Week would be great to keep.

    The other thing I was hoping for was a 1-week buffer period between the end of the Christmas Break and the beginning of exams. I do NOT mind if classes are held then. As long as exams are not right after the break.

    I wonder if that is something that would be feasable if the strike goes on past this week. Because if it ends Monday, then we’d have 3 weeks of class before the break. If it ends on the 8th, say, then that 3rd week of classes could be carried into the New Year before exams.

    Thoughts?

  137. Joshee

    @ Tom

    I definitely agree. At least the York administration should release some sort of plan. For example, if negotiations are complete before a certain date, classes will resume in December. But if they are not complete by that date, classes will resume after the break.

    That lets us know how much time we have, basically. I lost my job around the same time as the strike began. I can use this time to maybe find some seasonal work (if I have any confidence 😦 ). But thhis is only if I know when classes are likely to start up again!

  138. CUPE member with child

    I just came accross this letter written by a group of undergrads that support the union position to the president of the university. I’ve posted it below:

    “Dear Mr. Shoukri,
    I am sending this e-mail not only on behalf of myself, but rather countless other undergraduates who share in my position. Let me start by saying that we, the undergraduate students at York University, can appreciate the difficulty which you are facing in your position, as you are under pressure from all sides. However, we feel that the desired changes are not unreasonable and should be granted swiftly so as to resume business as usual at York University. It is our understanding that, even after three weeks of striking, the administration has not budged from its position on the demands put forth by the membership of CUPE 3903 and has continued to insist on binding arbitration. We feel that this position is irrational and should be revisited before more time is lost. We implore you to abandon your current position and take action to find a resolution on the matters raised in a fair and balanced manner.

    For the record, we feel that job security, benefits, a raise to poverty line level wages and smaller class sizes are all requests within reason. In fact, in a long term analysis, we have found that it is actually in favour of the university to comply with the desired changes. Firstly, it would mean that our institution would be able to generate quality scholarship by creating an environment in which academic growth is fostered. This is because our graduate students would not have financial strains and would thus be able to focus entirely upon their research. Furthermore, smaller class sizes, for instance, would produce higher quality undergraduates that would in turn garner a stronger reputation for our institution. In these tumultuous times of state and market co-opting and global economic crises, we do understand that it is difficult for anyone to forecast what the future holds, yet we still feel that our contracted professors–some of which have been loyal to this institution for more than a decade– should be given job security.

    We ask that you do whatever is in your power to oblige to our requests as we would like to continue the learning process, which is invaluable and should not be hindered due to economic reasons. The environment in which scholarship is produced should be kept—via a buffer— at a distance from market based actions, decisions, and circumstances. This buffer should consist of a supportive administration that actively seeks to promote academic development over profitability and business practices. Issues of cost effectiveness and profit must not undermine the process of knowledge production. We are, after all, producing scholarship and not cogs and widgets.
    Thank you in advance for taking the time to read our letter, and we hope that you will be moved to take swift action to resolve this issue.

    Sincerely,

    The contingent of undergraduates that support CUPE 3903

  139. rock

    @ams
    although i agree that lack of motivation shouldnt be used as an excuse, you must take into account the fact that people who value their holidays dont want to be studying for exams or working on assignments during that time. a fresh start in january will give profs, tas, and students time to re-organize and structure the remainder of the year in a smooth fashion. try this: GET A LIFE and stop trying to tell people that they dont belong in unversity because they want to start in jan you —–

  140. OOO

    I have to say I agree with rock

  141. ff

    Engineers had exams until the 20th anyway, so stop whining about wanting to start in January. we just had 3 weeks off.

  142. rock

    @CUPE member with child
    dont know who wrote that letter but that “group of undergrads” does not represent me! dont mean to pick on you but all of the undergrads i spoke to would dissagree

  143. flushafleshfarm

    That letter should do the trick : D

  144. CUPE member with child

    Do you think we should accept less than the raises the other unions at York have recently received, as well as the raises received by York’s admin, including the bargaining team that opposes us?

    From 2005-2008 York’s President’s salary rose by 39%, the registrar’s by 34%, the Senior Director’s by 28%.

    Why do some undergrads think that wage increases for people living already below the poverty line are so outlandish?

  145. dsd

    @ ff
    It wasn’t exactly the most pleasant 3 weeks off for most people. Sitting in front of the computer repeatedly hitting F5 every day and stressing out? And some of us actually using time to study/work? NOT a time off if you ask me.
    I would hate to be forced to sit behind the books during the Christmas when all my friends would be drinking themselves into oblivion.

  146. j

    because you’re already the highest paid union in ontario.

  147. amy doan

    @ Commuter

    Thank you, but I try but i cannot stop me from tumbling over this time crisis. I am waiting n waiting for tmr outcome

  148. YS

    @ rock

    you are my hero =D

  149. ff

    I’m sorry but Toronto is expensive; and Ontario TAs are paid like shit compared even to the states.

    I am going to get my education elsewhere, and then hopefully go to a country that understands social democracy a little better than Canada apparently does.

    How quickly we forget the lessons of history.
    (sigh)….

    Neoliberalism is on the decline. Get on the socialism bandwagon!

  150. CUPE member with child

    I really hope you never have to try and raise a child on an 8 month income of 6 thousand dollars.

  151. flushafleshfarm

    CUPE w/ child

    If I were you guys and had any power, I would not be going back any time soon. I hope your bargaining team can be trusted. The odds of this strike meaning nine tenths of nothing went up by 9.1 tenths today. I’d bet money that you guys are about to settle on a crusty agreement that will undeniably be a little bit better than it was before. If not now, in January. Hope not though. I honestly hope you guys get everything you want.

    Same as it ever was. – David Byrne

  152. ams

    @ rock.

    perhaps you should learn how to read since you did not read my entire post. we actually agree on all our points. also, let’s refrain from swearing and all.

  153. B

    That contingent of undergraduates that support cupe 3903 needs a severe reality check.

    Smaller class sizes? Why the heck did you pick a large institution like York? There are plenty of small to mid sized schools to would have delivered on that one.

    We live in an economy where everyday now you hear of more and more massive layoffs, yet somehow they want YorkU to magically institute job security?

    University isn’t a business? HA! It is becoming more and more of a privilege to attend post secondary schooling with the rising costs. If you can afford it, you pursue it and you contribute to its ever growing existence as a business.

  154. Commuter

    From a CUPE member or supporter (I don’t know who he is) on Facebook:

    “It is a 100% certainty that we will NOT be in school on Monday. From the day that a tentative agreement is reached, add ~1-3 days to schedule a GMM, and then another ~2 days for York to get things back up and running IF the proposal is ratified at the GMM. Hypothetically speaking, if there were to be a proposal tomorrow that CUPE feels should go to the membership, the earliest we would see class is probably Wednesday, if not Thursday or Friday.”

  155. B

    That CUPE member might want to brush up. They have two GMMs already scheduled. No need to wait around till they schedule new ones if they reach a tentative agreement tomorrow.

  156. Ellem

    Why is it that York University does not issue refunds until 90 days of strike disruption? Our fall semester is not going to be completed to the syllabus to which we received and while the material may be covered it will not be thorough. Our fall semester is in shambles and consequently our winter semester will be modified, and not for the better. This is not what I put thousands of dollars down for.

    In regards to starting school before January, I think that is a load of bollocks. Engagements during the holiday season have been made and academics, while completely important, family and friends are much more dear and rate higher in my books.

    As for extending the year by only one week, that is relieving to hear because I personally have work commitments in the summer, ironically to make money to pay for tuition! I still stand behind my deep yearning for a refund and if there are any eager law students who are wanting to practice their schooling, feel free to help me compose a case for the president. Think I have a chance? Maybe not. There’s loop holes right? hah

    I am so very anxious to see how this childish strike pans out. CUPE wants job security? Well tough luck, there is no such thing as job security; there is always the possibility to be let down in the real world. CUPE wants a raise? That’d be nice. Lucky for you TAs, you don’t have to pay for tuition- please correct me if I have been misinformed- and I can understand that Toronto living is expensive, but perhaps you should have considered the offered income before you enrolled yourself in such a position. I hate that the dollar is necessary for survival- I would love to see that bartering system back in play.

    I should retire for the evening/early morn, because if we are to start attending classes next week I will have an insanely stressful weekend trying to read and understand material, complete assignments, and study for tests and soon coming exams. Fuck.

  157. Curious Yorkie

    Aah! A msg of relief. Thanks, Commuter.
    by the way… in which facebook group are these msgs circulating? (am asking cuz am not getting any such msgs, so wondering if its group specific?)

  158. Frustrated Student

    @Yorkstrike2008,

    You mentioned you’re going to write up a petition tomorrow but will this petition reflect the people who are voting on the poll at the very top of the page, which is overwhelming Pro-January or will you write a petition based on how a handful of vocal people on this forum think and be write it reflecting the views of those who are Pro-Starting now?

  159. B

    “Do you think we should accept less than the raises the other unions at York have recently received, as well as the raises received by York’s admin, including the bargaining team that opposes us?”

    The university offered 9.25 over three years already. In line with all the other unions at York. How is that less??

  160. Commuter

    @ Curious Yorkie

    I peek my head into the York University Anti-Strike Group & Support CUPE 3903 in Bargaining groups once in a while.

    They aren’t messages… just things I read on the wall or in a discussion board thread.

  161. CUPE member with child

    It is significantly less when you take benefits and increases in enrollment into consideration. The 9.25% offer is not at all far from our 11% demand and by obviously a sticking point in reaching an agreement.

    When you count up the benefits packages, the other unions have received an approximate 4-5% increase in their packages since 2005. The offer we’ve been given is actually a 1.4% decrease in our package since 2005.

    York offered 9.25% because it looks great to the public. Meanwhile up until today they’ve been playing that media game and not negotiating with us at all. Instead they’ve been negotiating with the public, shutting the school down, and blaming us for it.

  162. CUPE member with child

    *sorry, I meant to type: “it’s obviously not a sticking point in reaching an agreement”

  163. Stef

    I think I would like to start in January too. While some people might say we’ve “wasted so much time already”, this has not by any means been a “break” as we have been stressed out, antsy and checking this blog multiple times daily. (That last one is me.)

    Basically, the year will play out like this – because I don’t expect the university will cater to us at all:
    Pre – Strike Days: Crazy with stress, prepping for midterms, finals and big papers.

    Strike Period: Crazy with stress, not knowing if we’ll be able to make back the money we’re losing in the summer, not being able to relax or make plans, catching up with school, sitting on pins and needles

    Post-Strike Period: Crazy with stress, no reading week, compressed schedules, shortened winter break, and extended term.

    It’s a raw shit deal we’re getting here. 8-10 months without a discernible break in anxiety levels is unhealthy and demoralizing for us. Either give us some decent notice as to when we’re going back to school or at least a reading week to break the chaos.

  164. Commuter

    @ Stef

    Amen.

  165. amy doan

    Totally with Stef. I felt my pain already

  166. Frustrated Student

    @Stef

    Unfortunately, no one gives a damn about us. We just foot the cheques that keep the school running and those people paid and that’s where our purpose ends.

    My biggest concern is the money that will be lost on the part of the students. We need this month to make money for next year via seasonal jobs or already secured jobs that we may have, to pay for our commutes to school and other expenses. Taking away our December ‘break’ will only add to unwanted stress and anxiety that will begin post-strike time.

    Or even worse, those of us who NEED to take Summer classes to graduate, otherwise be forced another year at this dysfunctional school.

  167. B

    @CUPE member with child – to be fair, while the decision to cancel class was the admin, you can hardly expect them to carry on if a bulk of their teaching staff aren’t teaching. The union and the admin share the blame on this one.

    The union has also been playing the media game as well. Although, in some instances fairly badly. That comic they released? Horrible call that belittles the intelligence of those they tried to gain support from. Christina Rousseau’s quote-misquote with the star?

  168. Frustrated Student

    Are talks continuing tomorrow?

    I can’t sleep without knowing what’s going to happen. I’ve had plans to go to abroad for more than 2 months now and I leave on the 6th… This is utter BS…

  169. silent till now

    @ CUPE with child

    I support you all and your fight. Common guys…look at the amount of income the university takes in yearly. The TA’s have been portrayed as these monsters who are demanding an unreasonable amount. But look at it this way, they are the ones who interact with the students more on a personal level. They do a lot of the grading and provide a lot of the support to students. As students we’ve all accepted that we’re going to paying an X amount of dollars to the university regardless…and personally speaking…I’d much rather have my money going towards TA’s and graduate students doing research than york administration.

    CUPE…you may or may not have a say in all of this but I agree with flush…after all this time…why sacrifice all you have fought for and settle just because the strike has been prolonged. Don’t think of it as we’ve got to rush this because we’re in the third week now…but think of what you’d do if it was only day 2 still.

    all in all…I think EVERYONE would agree with me in that we’d rather get this all done with and everyone satisfied now…then having to deal with this fiasco in 2 years again.

    good luck to all and may everyone have happy holidays!

  170. CUPE member with child

    That’s true, our contract faculty and TAs are the bulk of their teaching staff, and yet we are paid below the poverty line while the administration gives themselves raises like this in one year:

    Associate Dean 43% increase.
    University’s President 39% increase.
    Registrar 34% increase.
    Media Relations 24% increase.

    After I pay my tuition and buy books (that aren’t tax deductible) I take home 6 thousand dollars for 8 months and try to raise a child on it. And people call me greedy? As much as it makes me angry, I can only chalk it up to people not understanding what’s really going on, and the university not caring about its TAs or their undergrads.

  171. B

    @silent till now – you’re a bit confused there. It’s the Union that’s pushing for us to have to deal with all this again 2 years from now. They want 2yr agreements and admin is pushing for 3.

  172. Frustrated Student

    @silent till now

    “But look at it this way, they are the ones who interact with the students more on a personal level. They do a lot of the grading and provide a lot of the support to students.”

    I don’t know about anyone else but I haven’t had a TA for the past 3 years in a single class. I’m in my 5th and final year and all my classes are straight lectures / seminars.

    So no, TAs provide nothing for me nor have they for years now.

  173. B

    How are you comparing your income level to that of those members of the YorkU community? Most of them have already put in their time as grad students, earned their degrees, made the sacrifices and advanced their careers to that level. You’re only starting out on a long path and building experience.

    Their are points to the Union side that I can understand. But making such comparisons belittles those and does make TAs seem unreasonable.

  174. silent till now

    @ B

    yes i know. they want to join all the other schools and have a mass strike so that more importance will be given to their cause. However, regardless 2 or 3 years, a strike will come again won’t it? The only thing is that if they get that 3 year contract, they won’t have the pull of all the other universities in support of eachother. So say they were to accept the 3 year contract (doubtful) does that mean they’d strike then as well?

  175. Frustrated

    It’s not like any students have had a “stress-free” break in the past three weeks during this strike.

    This is just too unfortunate.

  176. CUPE member with child

    I envy that your parents are housing, clothing and feeding you so well, otherwise you might understand what 6K in 9 months in Toronto is like.

    If that’s not the case then perhaps you can tell me where I can rent a 2 bedroom apartment in toronto for $700 a month, utilities included that’s near a food-bank (since I won’t afford bus-fare or food if I pay that much on rent).

    Then I will agree that comparing their 6 digit base slaries with double digit anual percentage increases to my below poverty level wages is out of line.

    Also do some research on post-graduate funding with provincial and federal grants that were prevalent back in the 60’s and 70’s when those people would have gone through school and “made their sacrifices”. Since then it’s all been replaced by loans and tuition fee increases which has been downloaded onto myself and your parents, and other students that live in the real world.

    Good night.

  177. CUPE member with child

    We want a 2 year contract so that our union’s and other union’s contracts at york as well as other universities will all expire together. This will be an opportunity to bring the province to the bargaining table to reconsider how it funds post-secondary education altogether – a measure that would likely happen before the contracts even expire. While there may be a strike in 2010 (or even 2011), it’s by no means necessarily going to happen. This time around we worked 2 months without a contract in the hopes that the university would bargain with us for a new contract before having to strike. During that whole time, the university responded with “we are dis-inclined to agree” with any offer (including twice lowering our demands during that time). It’s only now, 4 weeks into the strike that the university has decided to come to the table and stay longer than 15 minutes.

  178. stacy

    i was schedualed to be done classed dec 2nd.
    my plans have been arranged since october
    i cannot afford to loose money
    no one can

    then again
    last strike was 4 months
    and majority of student were given take home exams \ assingments 2 weeks to complete and submit

  179. Nada

    What upsets me alot is the lack of proper communication the University has with the students. Every hour of the day I check for updates (always scared that the strike will end and I’ll have to go to school the next day). It’s quite annoying, every other day there is some meeting and nothing comes out of it. I really hope some final verdict comes out of the meeting tommorrow. But I’m thankful for this website where I do find regular updates, the York website is quite useless.

  180. @CUPE with a child

    …I think you are the person who needs to live in the real world. Getting your Master’s degree is a privilege, not a right. I agree that 6K over 8 months is not enough to raise a family in Toronto, so why are you doing it? Pardon my nastiness, but that is just plain irresponsible on your part.

    When you have a kid, it becomes less about you, and more about the kid. If you need a job that will pay money, go to some 2 week training program at COLLEGE, get a job, and go from there. If you desperatley want your Master’s, fine. Go get it part time. Heck, even go onto Teacher’s College if you enjoy teaching so much. Yes, it may not be as hip and cool as going for your Master’s, but at least you will be able to buy formula for your child once you are done.

    The fact is this, you guys work TEN HOURS A WEEK. I honestly don’t understand what you want. The lowest poverty line I could find was 24,069 1 parent and 1 child. If you got paid that while working 10 hours a week, you would be getting 75 a hour!!! No offence to the TA’s, I know they work hard. But they do not deserve 75 an hour.

    So get out of your fantasy world. York did not have your to make a dangerously low income to feed your child, you choose that. So stop your crying to get back to work.

  181. Janney

    I have booked a flight to Asia at the beginning of Dece. If the strike will end next week,then it means I will cancel my flight and won’t have chance to go back home this year. It’s so unfair.

  182. jerrard

    @York is awesome
    The point here is that the union is not asking for something new (that being appropriate funding that will allow all graduate students -not just the rich- to be able to afford going to school) we are simply asking for things to be put back they way they were. I have read numerous posts that say grad students have to “put in their time” before they are going to earn good money, just like everyone before them did. In some ways I agree. But the main point is, the funding is not the same as it used to be. It is steadily dropping off. Grants are not as accessible. Even if you do earn one, the school takes the money back by subtracting it from you paycheque. These kinds of things need to come back in line if anyone other than the rich is ever going to continue in grad school. Otherwise, years down the road we can look forward to faculties full of not so smart- but rich- professors.
    Wait, maybe this does affect everyone in education?

  183. CUPE member with child

    @York is awesome.

    We’re well within our legal right to strike, so if you don’t like it then stop YOUR crying and go to a different school.

  184. B

    @CUPE member with child – Your assumption that the undergraduate student body have it easy with mommy and/or daddy taking care of our financial woes is irrelevant and judgmental. If you want their support for your salary woes it’s counterproductive to go off and belittle their experiences and situations in order to cry about having it worse. The undergraduate student population is certainly not completely made up of people who don’t have loans, scholarships or bursaries; just like the grad school student population isn’t made up entirely of poor struggling students crying foul over not making more money.

    You knew what you were getting into when you picked York as a grad school. You knew the terms of the TA position that you were handed – not interviewed and jumped through hoops for. You got into Grad school, not the job market or a higher salary bracket.

  185. jerrard

    @B
    In defense of CUPE w/child. Of course, not all undergraduate students who attend York live at home. There are probably many who do live away from home and have a better understanding of the real costs of living (ie food, transportation, rent, utilities.) I’m also quite confident that those few who do live away from home can relate more easily. However, a large majority of York undergraduates are NOT in this situation and maybe do not understand these pressures. I believe her point was simply to help enlighten those who may not have thought of (or been able to fully comrehend) these outside pressures.

  186. still doing homework

    Some of you think I may have no business making the following comments.. I myself admit that perhaps there is no point in truly mentioning how I feel about some comments earlier made. It just saddens me to see that this strike has brought out the worst in people and I feel that I will make a comment despite the uselessness.

    @ CUPE member i have tried as much not to take sides in terms of union/york, however your recent attempts at gaining sympathy have left me feeling a little disgruntled.

    i will start off with your much earlier, and what seems to be your main argument here on this discussion board…

    that you work well below the poverty line, and that many of the arguments against you are that you work 10 hours a week.

    While i do not know you, i can not rightfully say that you may or may not be one of the special TA’s that gave a crap about their students, in my 3 years, i have had both.. therefore my argument is not about whether you deserve to be paid more because of the hard earned effort without financial reward. (although I do have my opinion, but I will not voice it as it is baseless)

    Your arguments are well structured, but your defense leaves more for others to lose sympathy with you. While I know you most likely do not have much to say in terms of what the actual bargains are about, maybe the bigger argument is not that you need to be paid more per hour, but that your salary needs to reflect how much effort you put in to the TA-ing aspect; if you are indeed spending more than 10 hours a week preparing for, teaching, and marking the work of a tutorial then perhaps you need to ask for more paid hours, and not so much more financial dollars per hour.

    However, that is not my point in the $/hour argument… Your claim is that you work below poverty line at ten hours a week, if I’m not mistake (paraphrasing)… I work ten hours a week myself, and after the government takes away my tax.. it’s about $9.00 an hour… I have 36 credits this year.. OSAP only gave me about $3000, you’re a york student, work out how much more I need. I work below poverty line, should I be asking my employer for more money too? While I realize the situations are not the same, your argument however parallels my situation. Which leads me back to my earlier statement that perhaps the argument should be more about asking for more paid hours.

    Furthermore, you are trying to gain sympathy in a discussion where many students are feeling very sour at the Teaching Assistants request, you have to expect less than friendly lash-backs, especially at the maturity level of some of the regular commentators, therefore you have to take it with a grain of salt… You are supposed to be a TA and have taken on the task of attempting to indeed try and give us some insight, your comments back need to reflect your intelligence and not your ignorance.

    You should be lucky that you have a union attempting, however that method may be, to protect you and your rights, many of the student body population are in jobs because they have to be with no union to protect them from crappy and unfriendly employer/employee relationships at the very least financially. Consequently as much as I dislike it, your statement that you are well within your legal rights to strike is valid; your statement that the crying should stop and that if we don’t like it we should switch schools is not.

    Among the frustration of the strike itself, I’m sure many can agree with me here that much of the frustration is due to NOT KNOWING what is going on, and any potential answers to WHAT IF scenarios… more importantly however, is that if we had known, prior to getting into school that we’d be disrupted by a strike, I am willing to bet that many would have actually chosen another school less likely to strike. (I do say that last statement specifically based on York’s history, because I am well aware of the fact that any unionized school has just an equal amount of potential to strike, UofT for example) therefore that comment is rather offensive and uncalled for.

    However, I will give you the benefit of the doubt…from first hand experience I am sympathetic with posting before thinking if that so much is the case.

    and in general, people should stop comparing using financial arguments as an argument to attack each other, everyone is in a different situation and it is unfair of you to say who deserves to be credited as poor and rich. And I am sure that we can all agree that we pay quite a valued dollar to York University and we’d all like to get our money’s worth.

    @ Rock
    Regardless of your anger and side you wish to take in this fight, need you lash out at other members with expletives? Like ams said in his own defense… read the whole statement. If you want people to take your comments seriously, do so with less attack. I am sure that your arguments have substance and are worth considering.

  187. yorkstrike2008

    @CUPE w/ Child and Jerrard

    It is difficult for me to disagree with you – and I do not disagree with you per se. Let me explain. First off I should say that for the majority of my life my family has been rather poor. My father tried to start up a company and for many years he made under $10 grand a year. My mom was a supply teacher and when she finally got into to a full time position Rae froze the salary grid and then Harris came along and took a dump on public education. They got the worst of it from the ‘social democrats’ to the ‘neoliberal scum bags’. I know what it is to be poor, I know what it is to have to miss a meal here and there and I know what it is to move from apartment to apartment.

    I am in full support of your legal action and right to demand a fairer compensation for your work. I value my TAs and contract profs tremendously, they do a very good job and have always been there to help and clarify things for me. I do think that the salaries the admin are making are ludicrous. However, when they increase their salaries it does not disrupt the school year.

    I am sure both of you can appreciate that people NEED to get a job in the spring to come back to school and this strike is jeopardising that. Among other important plans that we have no right to demean in comparison to our plans. Your strike is making it harder, especially financially, for many undergraduate students. We don’t get paid while we are on strike and we all have living expenses. I find it tremendously hypocritical of the union to do that. We are students as well and I feel that we are in a much bigger pinch that CUPE members are and yet we have no media coverage and neither side gives a crap about us. Why? Because they think mommy and daddy pay for the whole ride and we have nothing to cry about and if we are that inconvenience we should go to another University?

    NO!

    This is where I must strongly contend against you. You have already graduated with a BA. There are many well paying jobs for people with BAs around (30-40 grand a year to start). If you knew grad school was going to be so expensive then why did you not go out a get a job for a year or two and save every penny to survive the two years of a masters programme? That is what I am doing that is for sure.

    You had options that undergrads do not have. We do not have our BAs yet to go out and get a decent job and save for school. Many undergrads had to take a year off before school and work full time to afford school – obviously that was not the most preferable option but it had to be done.

    What is different for CUPE members?

    I must make a quick distinction between masters students and PhD/post doctoral teaching positions. The latter can take almost a decade to complete, they have their masters degrees and sometimes PhDs and that is an entirely different story. This criticism is specifically aimed at masters students.

  188. Guess Who

    While coming into York on the picket lines, a TA told me that the strike might last for another week.

    The negotiations are catching ground and that they are meeting today once again.

    Let’s see what happens.

    He also said that the Senate might not resume classes as soon as the strike is over. They passed some kind of motion yesterday which he does not know.

  189. still doing homework

    YS2008, that is well said,

    Let me provide your argument with validated fact.

    I have to say that I am one of the students who have taken years off prior to completion of my BA in order to make money to afford school. To date: i have taken off 2 full years.

    Unfortunately, due to the rising demand of people with BA’s to gain any respectable (and I don’t mean 30-40 grand a year, i mean less) job that pays decently enough, i.e. entry level positions but beyond retail/starbucks/mcdonals it has become difficult, to gain such a job.
    Thus, last year began my “fukit i don’t care how poor i am i’m just going to get it over with and pray I somehow make it” campaign, hence my 120% courseload this year.. i moved back home, and i have a job where the head-office feels like they need to cut out completely. On top of trying not to get 5 days a week of school (last year) i need days off so that I spend less money on transportation fees. I am one of the many budgeting like mad to scrape, literally scrape, by.

    It sucks. I’m poor too. This whole situation sucks.

  190. j

    @ jerrard

    I live on my own in an apartment in downtown Toronto (where living expenses are NOT cheap) pay for my bills, groceries, expenses, etc. – and I have zero sympathy for CUPE. Why? Because I work my BUTT off in the summer to afford this life style because I know that when September rolls around I won’t be able to make as a lot of money during the school year.

    I had saved money to be able to attend summer courses this year – but now living in downtown Toronto for a month (and it looks like it might be longer) for NO REASON – as CUPE has taken away my educational right – I might not be able to afford that, which will push back my entire undergraduate degree.

    Oh not to mention, we might not have a summer semester because you’re all too busy asking for more money than to actually work with what you’ve got.

  191. CUPE member with child

    While I appreciate your comments and the difficulties you’re experiencing as a result of the strike – something we’re all facing to various degrees, I disagree that CUPE workers don’t care about the undergrads. Undergrads are the people I interact with daily at school and face in the classroom. I offer extra help all the time to them, not just in the classes that I directly teach them in, but for any classes that they think I might be of assistance. I even post my home phone number on the first day of class and invite them to call me any time of day or night if they’re in need of help (and yes, I’ve cordially received late phone calls on nights before tests). I have become close friends with some of the undergrads I’ve taught and gotten to see how many of them live. Just like with the TAs, its a mixed bag – some come from poor families, some middle-class, some get support, others do not. Some have no families at all and are completely on their own.

    I find most tenured faculty to similarly be helpful and sympathetic to their graduate and undergraduate students because they too work directly on a day to day basis with their students.

    Most upper level administrators at the university do not have near the interaction with students (grad and undergrad) that we do – hence we are alien to them. we are numbers on spreadsheets. We are Ontario ‘averages’ or percentage sways from that average. We are funding formulas, and ‘human resources’.

    For the record, I am a phD student well into my program of study. Since I was a master’s student, our pay and benefits package has been significantly eroded. The current offer by the university is another erosion of that package. While I don’t like disrupting the undergraduate studies, it’s the only effective means by which we can demand pay and working conditions that keep our heads above water, but also set precedent for the undergraduates coming behind us, our children and all of our future’s.

  192. Hullo

    ARRG! stop generalizing!!! understand the fact that your problems may or may not affect other people. Because each one of us have our own philosophies and personally I would not want any of you guys to tell me how to run my life. Also I would not want any of you guys to tell me whether or not I should attend school at all if I wanted a Jan start. So bottom line is, respect everyone’s call.

  193. jerrard

    First off, on behalf of most CUPE members let me say that we do not wish to hold undergraduates hostage, and I think most of us can relate to how you must feel, because were ourselves were there only a few short years ago. jeopardising your chances of summer employment is not our intention and we hope that you are not over burdened by the situation. However, if the University is not willing to help us reach a reasonable contract (as the union has tried for months before the strike) what other option does the union have to get Yorks attention other than stopping working for them? If work continues, then the University wins by default because they get what they want. Would anyone really take notice of the problems if there were not a strike (can you honestly say you were aware of the problem pre-strik?) I hope that you can see how the University is very much responsible for the current strike as well by not working with the union.
    @yorkstrike2008 and j – similar to the way you took offence to the assertation that all undergrads are freeloading off of their parents, I must contest the proposition that all grad students were stupid enough to go straight from an undergrad degree into a master’s they cannot afford. I for one DID take time off and earned money. However, since starting my master’s (and then completing it and working on a PhD) many things have changed. Funding simply isn’t what it used to be. It is harder and harder to make ends meet. We are not asking for a raise to make more than we used to, we simply want the funding to go back to a reasonable level (as it used to be) and to keep up with inflation and the cost of living.
    I’m sure that neither of you would suggest that since funding has changed I should now a) drop out of my Phd and “get a real job” or b) simply suck it up a accept that university is taking advantage of us.
    Also, for the record. Many TAs do ot have the opportunity to work in the summer at all- we work on our research all year round. The funding during the rest of the year is controlled by York (no outside jobs, no more than 10hrs.

  194. jerrard

    Thanks to Cinncinatus C.
    Great link to the 10hr rule
    http://ocgs.cou.on.ca/_bin/home/employment.cfm

    I can assure you that in my dept. this is strictly enforced

  195. Diane

    For everyone that wants to save reading week!! I think it is ridiculous to try and plan something that is 3 months ahead. I think what is more important is this month and the number of students including myself that have book $2000 tickets back home. It is not our fault the school went on strike…and we should not have to loose more money because of it. We booked our tickets according to when our exams finished…we shouldnt be punished for that. Its not that were lazy and dont wanna go back to school. We want to see our family and we cannot afford to loose $2000 !!!

  196. York Undergrad

    I am 100% in for starting school after January. I don’t think anyone can really write a paper or pass an exam if we go back to school next week. Dam I can’t even form a proper sentence right now, so I am not looking forward to my 30% exam paper without better preparation!

  197. Commuter

    The YFS is having another townhall meeting. Since the YFS is part of the Senate Executive Committee, they have a partial role in deciding what happens when we go back, and they want out input about how we will resume.

    Taken from a YFS message I received:

    “The YFS will be hosting another Townhall next week (we are still trying to find a location and time). The purpose of this Townhall will be to solicit input on how we would like to see classes resume so, do we want classes in December if it is late, reading week, exams, ect. If you can’t make it and have ideas please email them to strikeinfo@yfs.ca. The decision is made by Senate Executive Committee and we have a seat on that committee.”

  198. Commuter

    @ York Undergrad

    We’d have to have classes before exams, so if we go back soon, exams would not be until after Christmas/New Year’s.

  199. Joshee

    @ ff

    Omg =O There is a socialism bandwagon?! I want a ride!!

    @ Ellem

    Um… I still think TAs have to pay tuition. In fact, that is one thing that was also on their bargaining agenda.

    @ CUPE member with child

    You’re right that when the admin were in university, they didn’t have to pay nearly as much as we have to do now. Back in the day, the government covered 50% of tuition. That has now fallen to 15%.

    The admin are downright evil charging us students so much when they had it so much easier. But at the same time, what is the real problem? Should TA’s earn more so they can pay their tuition or should tuition not even be that high?!

    All undergrads should hopefully agree on the second. Tuition shouldn’t be that high. Then you win and we win too. Because remember, undergrads have worse, lower-paying jobs than TAs. There are also undergrads with children and rent to pay.

    But sadly, nobody cares about the undergrads. Everybody either forgets that they were one once or had it way easier back when they were one *cough* york admin *cough* provincial and federal government.
    Drop fees. It’ll solve both our problems.

    And lol, amen to the “stop your crying and go to a different school”. Hahaha so true. We undergrads have to face that this is life. Why can’t we get with the program and mobilize better for undergrad rights then?! Why are we too hopeless to think we can achieve something too?

    @ still doing homework

    You’re so right in saying that CUPE 3903 is so lucky to have a union helping them and most of us undergrads don’t. I recently lost my minimum-wage job because I was mistreated by an employer (not to mention the regular mistreatments we receive from clients). I didn’t take his bullshit, but of course now I am left unemployed and underconfident. Its sad to not see unions where they could be of most use.

    @ yorkstrike2008

    You’re right, undergrads are in a much bigger pinch than CUPE members and yet we have no media coverage. Why does nobody care about the masses who are in the worst position?! My parents DO NOT pay for my education. Heck they can barely pay for themselves. I’m lucky to have an older sister that helps out, but has gotten screwed over herself when she was an undergrad. Others are not even as lucky as me.

    If TAs’ education was paid for when they were undergrads, then they are indefinitely lucky enough already.

    @ jerrard

    I was aware of the problem pre-strike but you’re right that the bulk of undergrads probably weren’t.

  200. Implore

    we want to go back in JanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuaryJanuary

  201. AnotherStudent

    Going back right now would just through me off tracks. I’m not able to work on my papers properly since my profs won’t answer my questions during the strike. At this point, I would *so* prefer that school starts in January and not have reading week, if that should be necessary. It would take a lot off of my mind if York could just officially state that classes will only resume after the winter break (which I think they will) … bleh. I know it’s a strike but I hate waiting around like this. If I was a little more sure I would be on my way overseas right now – doing something more productive. Ai. Should I take this risk or not?

    What will happen to us?! I’m starting to get a little worried that my prof. will cancel certain assignments and make other assignments that were already due/handed in worth more…is that even possible? I hope not or else I am in serious trouble.

    Oh I think I’m going through strike-uncertainties overload. This is my 2 cents now I’m gonna go…

    p.s. Thanks for this website! It’s the only way I get any type of information that doesn’t read like a press release to me.

  202. Steve

    JANUARYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY ❤
    Lets go back in JANUARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRY

  203. still doing homework...

    @ joshee, I’m not sure if you’ll ever get this message since this is so many days after the fact, regardless here are my 0.02 cents..

    I was in the same position as you in 2007, I quit my job due to the rising disinterest from my immediate, and not so immediate supervisors and employers, not to mention the goal of my department moving away from customer service to ass-kissing of potential corporate clients… and, being in a customer service job, of course the occasional horrible inconsideration from customers as well.

    As for horrible clients, that would also be in regards to one job I held for a single month, but that’s another “horrible job story” all together..

    My point is, hang in there, I was left unemployed for 5 months… Keep looking, and if you must, take a crappy job for some cash and keep looking for the better one.

    Although, this is why i’m in school, and have taken a pay cut, but hey, life’s tuff right?

  204. still doing homework...

    oh yes, and i had mentioned this somewhere, i can’t remember if it was this thread or not, i agree, there should be some indication of realization that perhaps tuition fees ARE too high, and that is the ultimate solution.

    HAHA.. oh the ideal world 😦

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