January 28, 2009...9:01 am

Union may fight back-to-work bill

Jan 28, 2009 12:01 PM
Be the first to comment on this article…

THE CANADIAN PRESS

The union representing striking workers at York University says it’s preparing a legal challenge of provincial legislation that would force teachers back to work.

CUPE Ontario president Sid Ryan says the government-backed bill, which is expected to pass Thursday, won’t make the issues at the heart of the strike go away.

He says union lawyers are prepping their case, which can only be launched after the bill is passed.

Premier Dalton McGuinty wouldn’t say whether the government has a plan to deal with the potential roadblock.

The union renewed their call for McGuinty to force the university to resume negotiations, but the premier says it’s clear the bargaining process has failed.

Some 50,000 students saw classes cancelled on Nov. 6 when 3,400 teaching assistants, contract faculty and graduate assistants walked off the job.

 

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/578576

I am not a lawyer so I could be wrong, but this looks like the Union is trying to prolong and maintain the strike but challenging the bill. Do Bills become law the minute they are approved by the Legislatures and their associated assemblies? If the Union challenges the Bill, is it in effect until and if a judge rules against the Bill? In simpler terms, would CUPE workers have to return to work until the Bill gets shot down, or is the Bill legally binding even if it is being challenged and thus they would be breaching the Law by refusing to work?

Perhaps there are some lawyers or law students out there that could shed some light on this.

Cheers

YorkStrike2008

 

 

 

126 Comments

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126 Comments

  • Natasha
    January 28, 2009 at 9:08 am

    I believe it can be challenged, but once it becomes law nothing can deter it. Most likely the challenge will just be thrown out with the judge saying everything has been resolved by said legislation and there is nothing they can do about it till next year. Which then puts next year in jeopardy for us, the union will just strike again…

  • CupeTroll
    January 28, 2009 at 9:10 am

    First comment!

  • CupeTroll
    January 28, 2009 at 9:10 am

    I hate you Natasha.

  • mikael
    January 28, 2009 at 9:11 am

    im one of the students in admin studies at atkinson that has gone back….

    our profs have canceled assignments and increased weightings of previous assignments such that we have 80% final and a 70% in the next 2-3 wks (approx.). i feel this is unfair and just stupid. i know profs were gonna re-assign and weight but this is just so stressful.

    also, one of my online courses felt it was okay to put up 4 lectures instead of 2 or 3 because it was convenient enough to do so. this also is just not right.

    we students are really getting f*cked.

    what can we do, if anything ?

  • somewhat of an answer...
    January 28, 2009 at 9:13 am

    CUPE to Challenge Back-to-Work Legislation
    Posted on January 27th, 2009 at 10:52 am

    The Globe and Mail is reporting today that CUPE 3093 intends to challenge the back to work legislation as a Charter breach. I have discussed the possible arguments before. Once the lawsuit has been filed, I will get the documents from the lawyers or the court and post them. I’m not sure if the union intends to seek an injunction suspending the legislation until after a decision on whether the legislation is legal. I’ll let you know when we hear what the plan is. Stayed tuned….

    http://www.yorku.ca/ddoorey/lawblog/

  • Soraya
    January 28, 2009 at 9:17 am

    Was the second reading passed yesterday or not?

  • Natasha
    January 28, 2009 at 9:18 am

    way to be mature CupeTroll

  • Disaffected Yufite
    January 28, 2009 at 9:22 am

    The second reading of the bill passed this morning, but as soon as it did there was a request to send the bill to a committee for further review. So the NDP is going to use every weapon they have to delay passage of the bill and air their concerns about provincial funding for higher education, pay equity, casualization of the educational work force, etc.

  • CupeTroll
    January 28, 2009 at 9:29 am

    lol… What are you doing tonight Natasha? How about me you and a coffee?

  • HBK
    January 28, 2009 at 9:29 am

    In order for CUPE to fight the BTWL in court, they’re going to have to show that negotiations were not futile without government intervention. That will be tough.

  • Soraya
    January 28, 2009 at 9:29 am

    hmmm, does that mean that we may not be back on Monday?

  • mikael
    January 28, 2009 at 9:32 am

    any suggestions…?

    im one of the students in admin studies at atkinson that has gone back….

    our profs have canceled assignments and increased weightings of previous assignments such that we have 80% final and a 70% in the next 2-3 wks (approx.). i feel this is unfair and just stupid. i know profs were gonna re-assign and weight but this is just so stressful.

    also, one of my online courses felt it was okay to put up 4 lectures instead of 2 or 3 because it was convenient enough to do so. this also is just not right.

    we students are really getting f*cked.

    what can we do, if anything ?

    wow, ive never hated anything more than york and cupe right now lol

  • york sux
    January 28, 2009 at 9:33 am

    how long will the commitee take? couple of hours or a day? and is it going to get passed tomorrow?

  • Nia
    January 28, 2009 at 9:35 am

    This is useless. No one will let CUPE go on with this any longer. From a realistic standpoint, we’ve been out of school for a long time and EVERYONE seems to acknowledge that–but CUPE members. They just want what they want without thinking of anyone else, but us students are really getting screwed over here. It’s unfortunate.

  • @ soraya
    January 28, 2009 at 9:36 am

    I know this is the answer everyone is giving, but there is a high probability that classes will resume on Monday. There is very little information to suggest otherwise. So the best thing we can do at this point is prepare for it.

    If the bill receives royal assent tomorrow, it would be tough to put on a timeline on how long it would take CUPE to get an injunction …. IF they get one, of course. With the weekend approaching and the bureaucracy of the courts, I certainly wouldn’t bank on CUPE being granted an injunction prior to Monday.

  • Yorkscrewedme
    January 28, 2009 at 9:39 am

    Ram. I’ve told you before STFU. Clearly Soraya is just as worried as any other student on here wondering what the hell is going on. The difference is SHES ASKING QUESTIONS! With all these trolls posting false information how can you expect her not to be curious and confused…

    Intellectually inept to you, maybe. I would call it concerned. The only intellectually inept thing I see is your sorry ass taking the time to write insults about someone online because she asked a few harmless questions…

    Your posts haven’t exactly been stellar either so please, for all of us STFU.

    Soraya I am extremely well informed about the situation here and have predicted or been informed in advance about every development to date.

    If you have any questions just ask me…

  • MR Two
    January 28, 2009 at 9:39 am

    @ Nia

    Unfortunately, sympathy has nothing to do with legality. Whether CUPE wins or loses should have nothing to do with us being inconvenienced, as upsetting as it is.

  • Danny
    January 28, 2009 at 9:40 am

    Who cares if Cupe fights it. We ARE going back to schoool

  • take it to court
    January 28, 2009 at 9:41 am

    If the union challenges the legislation than I think the strike will be prolonged until a settlement in court is determined about the BTWL.

    They say it violated the charter of rights and freedom. But dont take my word on it.

    But im pretty sure if they go to the supreme court we are still sitting on our asses cause york screwed things up and the union would win.

  • Danny
    January 28, 2009 at 9:43 am

    I still think if they do take this to court that it will be after we are back in classes

  • Dd
    January 28, 2009 at 9:47 am

    The process of challenging BTWL would not prolong the strike. Only if the injunction is granted.

  • ram
    January 28, 2009 at 9:48 am

    @ TRUTH

    They are hot, but dumb.

  • Pissedoff
    January 28, 2009 at 9:50 am

    Isnt this bill just like bindin arbitration? So they will be FORCED to go back to work.
    W.e the case, these TA’s aint gtn jack and 10% should get ready to be fired next year!
    They have ruined York’s rep and since theres 10% less students returning/coming to york next year, 10% less of these TAs will be needed!

  • Yorkscrewedme
    January 28, 2009 at 9:50 am

    Lol. Clearly that wasn’t me in the last post, I don’t know why they let you change your name on this site like this.

  • TRUTH
    January 28, 2009 at 9:51 am

    Who cares if they are dumb. They are HOT. Being a blonde hot is 200X more important than being a smart but fat girl!

  • Soraya
    January 28, 2009 at 9:51 am

    @ Yorkscrewedme

    once again, thanks. i assume it’s someone i know that knows i come on this website and probably just doesn’t like me very much. ah well.

    anyways, i asked if the 2nd reading had been passed because i haven’t found anything even though i heard yesterday that it had been. i also haven’t had the time to thoroughly search for information simply because i’m busy.

    and me posting: “hmmm, does that mean that we may not be back on Monday?” is just me talking out loud. no one knows. i mean, it’s likely but it isn’t for sure. so i guess we’ll all have to wait and see.

    thanks again :)

  • Soraya
    January 28, 2009 at 9:52 am

    lol @ … taking Yorkscrewedme’s name. so sad.

  • socialliability
    January 28, 2009 at 9:52 am

    What sucks is that *when* (not IF) they take this to court, they will probably win and we’ll be back out of school. If anything, York will maybe minimize it’s loses by saying “We gave you guys a half a semester so you’re only entitled to half of your money back max.” Meanwhile, it will be a half-asses half semester with pissed off teaching assistants marking our essays and tests.

    York hasn’t approached this strike in our best interest. They took off 3 weeks during the Christmas break instead of negotiating. Yes, the unions offers were maybe too much for York, but they should have still tried to negotiate. Instead, they left it alone for 3 weeks and because of that, and because of the fact that they only went to negotiate 2 weeks/11 weeks, this bill being passed is not legal in my opinion and will not stand a charter challenge.

    In the end, we are still getting screwed. For people like me who write at least two essays a month, the marking scheme is mostly subjective and basically at the whims of our TAs. With a bunch of upset TAs I am wondering how that is going to affect how they mark and teach us.

  • NDP Fan
    January 28, 2009 at 9:53 am

    Nobody here knows for sure what consequences the injunction will have. From what I understand, normally they take long to process, but because this is a unique and time sensitive situation, it may be handled differently. I don’t think it makes sense for us to go back Monday and then a week later or even a month later the court decides BTWL was illegal and the teachers walk out again. Only time will tell us how things will play out.

  • ...
    January 28, 2009 at 9:53 am

    @ Soraya

    How does it feel to be called stupid? You mocked others when they asked “stupid” questions, and yet your one of them. Ha ha lol.

  • Jeff
    January 28, 2009 at 9:54 am

    @ take it to court – The BTWL bill is seen as a violation of the charter of rights and freedoms (Section 2(d), freedom of association.)

    CUPE 3903 will seek an injunction against the bill, rendering it invalid until the suit is complete should the injunction be granted. The strike would then continue until the suit was completed in the governments favour or a collective agreement was reached.

    The supreme court decision of 2007 suggests that BTWL is only legal when the public safety is at risk or there is a ‘clear deadlock.’ CUPE 3903 will probably argue that they are willing to bargain but York U isn’t.. Remember, the Labour Relations Act _Requires_ that parties attempt to reach a collective agreement. Additionally, any party which is going through the motions but does not intend to actually reach an agreement is ’surface bargaining’ – illegal under the Labour Relations Act. I only mention this because York is accused of this and… it’s not a good thing to be accused of.

    I’m not a lawyer, but that’s my understanding of this all.

  • JessSane
    January 28, 2009 at 9:54 am

    Even if enrollment for undergrads goes down; there won’t be any fewer 3903s.

    York has “guaranteed funding” for all grad students that make the B+ grade cut off (which is pretty much everyone) – so even if there are fewer TAs, it just means they will make more RA positions.

    So, your schadenfreude is misplaced, PissedOff

  • ...
    January 28, 2009 at 9:54 am

    @Soraya

    For the record. I didn’t take YorkScrewedMe name. Can’t you see it was Ram that did it. He has the same format.

  • Soraya
    January 28, 2009 at 9:56 am

    mocked who? I didn’t mock anyone. Someone in another post asked the same question 3 times. I answered it. Being blunt doesn’t constitute as mocking.

    You are judging my intelligence based on comments/questions I’ve made on a WEBSITE. Unless you know me personally, don’t judge. I’m a nice, smart, hard-working woman :)

  • Dd
    January 28, 2009 at 9:57 am

    It’s great that everyone is jumping on the YorkU took 3 weeks of at christmas BS.

    Guess what, the union did the same thing!

    Some top level people even left the province….

  • ...
    January 28, 2009 at 9:57 am

    @ Soraya

    You’re a woman?

  • Yorkscrewedme
    January 28, 2009 at 9:58 am

    @ Soraya … Yah the 2nd reading is deferred by the NDP until Thurs. Depending on how long they filibuster (delay it) it could pass second reading on Thurs and go on to third reading after that. Once it passes 3rd reading it gets “royal assent” and becomes law. The NDP can’t drag it out forever, and it should be passed this week. They can try and send it to “committee” which can delay it further.

    Monday return is NOT and I repeat NOT 100% guaranteed. But to be safe I suggest you are ready for a Monday return because unless Cupe gets an injunction we will be back to class NEXT WEEK.

    By the way, what year \ program are you in?

  • take it to court
    January 28, 2009 at 10:00 am

    @Jeff

    So does that mean we will be in school on monday until whether or not the union challenges or not?

    And the strike would continue only if the union wins the injunction?

  • ...
    January 28, 2009 at 10:02 am

    that’s nasty yo.

  • Tim
    January 28, 2009 at 10:02 am

    It passed 2nd reading today. The NDP requested to send it to a committee, thus delaying 3rd reading.

  • york sux
    January 28, 2009 at 10:08 am

    does anyone know how long it takes for the commitee to look it over and when the third reading will be?

  • Soraya
    January 28, 2009 at 10:09 am

    @ Yorkscrewedme

    and how long does this committee business last?

    as for that information, don’t know if I want to disclose it here. don’t need people like … and ram coming to look for me in my classes lol if you’d like you can email me @ rayac75@hotmail.com don’t know how safe that option is but anything is better than this.

  • tester
    January 28, 2009 at 10:11 am

    how long can the bill take in committee?

    then what happens?

  • ...
    January 28, 2009 at 10:11 am

    @ …

    Name Thief!

  • ...
    January 28, 2009 at 10:13 am

    @ Soraya

    Don’t worry, nobody here is going to look for you. lol. You’re not that special.

  • tester
    January 28, 2009 at 10:13 am

    … please shut up

  • CUPE greed fail
    January 28, 2009 at 10:13 am

    Go ahead CUPE fight it, so you can get slapped again by the hand of reality.

    These clowns are digging their own graves.

  • Soraya
    January 28, 2009 at 10:14 am

    I like to think I am LOL

  • Dave
    January 28, 2009 at 10:14 am

    @CUPE greed fail

    Unfortunately, their burying us all with them

    :S

  • Yorkscrewedme
    January 28, 2009 at 10:15 am

    If it got sent to committee I would assume it would be handled as quickly as possible. It wouldn’t be very long ( as in weeks or anything) Possibly a few days.

  • EnoughIsEnough
    January 28, 2009 at 10:16 am

    Second reading vote was today @ 11:43

    58 Ayes
    9 Nays from NDP

    Bill is being passed onto committee, House is recessed until 3pm

  • Impatient
    January 28, 2009 at 10:16 am

    @wait and watch

    They voted at 11am this morning, and it passed second meeting and they are reconvening at 3pm today.

  • TRUTH
    January 28, 2009 at 10:17 am

    The only good thing about this imperialist government and their capitalist friends are HOT BLONDE babes….

  • ...
    January 28, 2009 at 10:17 am

    I’m holding a voter here as well:

    who else wants me to shut up?

  • blackflame28
    January 28, 2009 at 10:26 am

    @Yorkstrike2008

    I’m not a lawyer but I am a law clerk. I have 2 years schooling and 3 years experience in the field. I can pretend to answer some of your questions… but don’t quote me ;)

    “Do Bills become law the minute they are approved by the Legislatures and their associated assemblies?” Yes, it does.

    “If the Union challenges the Bill, is it in effect until and if a judge rules against the Bill?” yes. there will need to be a court order (or an injuctuion) to stay the law.

    “In simpler terms, would CUPE workers have to return to work until the Bill gets shot down, or is the Bill legally binding even if it is being challenged and thus they would be breaching the Law by refusing to work?” I believe they have to return to work until there is a injuction OR if the law has been changed. This is where I am unclear, if the bill is stayed, will the strike resume and classes cancelled? I would believe so.

    Some here say that the union doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell to win, but I disagree. As much as I want this Bill to pass, the NDP have very valid points. This is illegal. This is not an esstenial service (if Ottawa transporation is not deemed esstenial, why would the university be?), it is not a matter of national security and there is no deadlock. Yes, the union is giving stupid offers but there is still offers! they have agreed to wages. it’s time for York to sit down at the table again and talk things out.

    Both sides have wasted our time during this strike, but making an illegal bill will not help the situation.

  • Opp
    January 28, 2009 at 10:28 am

    fuck, who the fuck wants to shovel my snow with me D’:

  • SumbanthSingh
    January 28, 2009 at 10:29 am

    you can pay a dollar to your chinese neighbours to do it for you. from experience: it works. not because they are nice.. but really they will do it for money. try it

  • A to the B
    January 28, 2009 at 10:37 am

    Completely agree with Blackflame28 but i still do not believe that CUPE will succeed with injunction. Odds are just too stacked against them. I rather bet on the Cards beating the Steelers. THATS HOW BAD THE ODDS ARE AGAINST CUPE.

  • CUPE greed fail
    January 28, 2009 at 10:38 am

    @ blackflame

    How is deadlock status determined? To me its when neither side is willing to budge or come to an agreement.

    Even though some progress has been made, wages etc.
    Still remains a few sticking points:
    -Union wants 2 year contract, York wants 3. In 12 weeks since this strike, neither has been willing to budge on this issue.
    -Conversion of contract faculty to tenured. The university instead wants to create open positions available to everyone, again neither side is willing to budge.

    These are just a couple examples. They can bargain all they want, but its clear these issues wont be resolved…a clear deadlock.

    Also, the fact that they have been bargaining for months and we still have no resolution to me indicates a deadlock.

    Please let me know what you think.

  • Cupe Doll
    January 28, 2009 at 10:39 am

    Chances of any quick injunction — quick enough to make any difference in this strike — are negative.

    Chances of Cupe national successfully challenging the BTWL legislation are vanishingly slim. Since there really was deadlock and everyone knows how and why we 3903s refused to bargain over 80 days.

    And anyhow — CUPE national’s chances aren’t relevant to us here & now. The challenge will take years. But Sid has to try. Otherwise, there’s a chance future employers will try to get future governments to intervene with BTWL instead of bargaining.

    Sid has no choice. We 3903s abused collective bargaining so badly, the government had no option but to intervene. And now, the whole Canadian labour movement is flipping. Because government intervention to stop 3903 abuses might be used against more legitimate and genuine future collective bargaining. Against locals that aren’t ideologically loco like ours at all.

    Chances are the courts will do the least they need to distinguish how real the deadlock was — and how loco the 3903 local been and continues being. This will satisfy the labour movement that government intervention won’t apply to every local — just ones going loco as 3903.

  • ...
    January 28, 2009 at 10:40 am

    @ Love 2 make Love

    done that!

    @ Opp

    Screw you…i got my own to take care of!

  • KEER
    January 28, 2009 at 10:42 am

    What is BTWL?

  • Ayla
    January 28, 2009 at 10:43 am

    The question here is: to start or not to start my essays?

  • TRUTH
    January 28, 2009 at 10:47 am

    @ Ayla
    Take the safe route and start your essays. There is a 99% chance that classes re starting Monday so it’s better to start doing work

    If they get delayed again, you’ll have your work done and you may do other things

    Win Win situation

  • RR
    January 28, 2009 at 10:49 am

    @cupedoll
    way to cut an paste another post
    ….so I will ask again, how many accounts do you have on here??

  • Choda
    January 28, 2009 at 10:49 am

    @Love 2 make love

    It’s ok that you’re homosexual; haven’t you heard-Barack Obama is now president so you don’t have to hide in the closet anymore, and you certainly don’t have to come on here to try and convince us that you’re not gay!!! I think you’re over-compensating a little too much; it’s just not believable!!!

  • KOS
    January 28, 2009 at 10:53 am

    Does anyone know if the classes will start tomorrow morning? Or it will be in the afternoon?

    Thanks

  • Insider2009
    January 28, 2009 at 10:55 am

    Gus,

    I just read on CUPE website that they have got a call from York!!!

    Apparently York has said that they come back to table ONL IF the table is big enough and have enough comfortable chairs.

    Dr. Shoukri himself has requested a sofa.

  • TRUTH
    January 28, 2009 at 10:59 am

    Which do you think is more controversial?
    Issuing the pardon for President Nixon or forcing CUPE back to work?

    Love
    TRUTH

  • K
    January 28, 2009 at 11:02 am

    @SumbanthSingh

    Get off the forum, you racist bigot.

  • iphone
    January 28, 2009 at 11:05 am

    i want to know when will we know the bill has pass or not? and is it 100% sure we will be back in class on monday 2nd feb eventho when the bill has pass but in bewteen those times , can cupe do anything to avoid getting back to class?

    thank you.

  • blackflame28
    January 28, 2009 at 11:16 am

    @CUPE greed fail

    I believe a deadlock is deteremined if neither party wishes to bargain anymore. For example, the TTC strike, it was declared a deadlock because both parties both said they were unable to debate anymore and both wanted government involvment (or at least this is what I have gathered from listening to the Legislative Assembly.. which I have been listening to like crazy lately).

    The Union still wants to talk. I believe that will be fruitless but with York refuses to talk, it only strengthens their agruments.

  • Ms. D
    January 28, 2009 at 11:18 am

    same question as iphone, pls help verify. thanks

  • kasdzmcnxv
    January 28, 2009 at 11:20 am

    @SumbanthSingh

    gtfo my internet, terrorist.

  • A
    January 28, 2009 at 11:24 am

    CUPE ready and waiting to negotiate

    No answer from York University President Mamdouh Shoukri

    CUPE ready and waiting to negotiate

    TORONTO, Ont. – The clock is ticking on the possibility of a negotiated settlement to end the York University Strike. CUPE’s offer to hammer out a deal with the University before back to work legislation passes third reading has so far gone unanswered.

    “The University has squandered twenty-four precious hours since we put our offer out yesterday morning,” said CUPE Ontario President Sid Ryan. “But with the Premier’s help we can still use the next twenty-four to thirty-six hours to make this happen.”

    CUPE is insisting that the Premier bring York University back to the bargaining table. “After all, the Province funds forty percent of the University budget which amounts to hundreds of millions of dollars every year,” noted Ryan.

    Local 3903 spokesperson Tyler Shipley said union negotiators are frustrated at the lack of response but are at the ready. “Our local is committed to getting a deal at the table – one that gets students back in the classroom, protects our constitutional right to bargain and lets all sides go back to work in an atmosphere of dignity and labour peace,” he added.

    Ryan affirmed that lawyers are working on preparing a legal challenge to the back to work legislation should it go through. “But that shouldn’t stop us from doing everything we can, down to the last hour, to get this deal at the table,” he said. “The ball is in the Premier’s court. This legislation is a band-aid. It won’t make the problem go away. The issues at York will come back up in other places sooner than later. ”

    CUPE has booked meeting rooms and “negotiators are on call to be there as soon as we get a call from the University’s bargaining team” said Shipley “the University still has a chance to turn this bitter dispute into a dignified settlement,” he added.

  • York Student
    January 28, 2009 at 11:24 am

    I am kind of sad. The union doesnt have any respect whatsoever and they will definitely continue to fight – today I went to the rally at Queen’s Park (wow I was surprised with the number of students that showed up .. was cold and snowing …) I believe around 200 were there and sudden a tall man came to our direction (where we were peacefully telling our frustrated stories) and started yelling at us, saying that the union will continue to bargain, that they will win this strike and we students should respect them.

    That somehow really upset me because we were not doing anything against them. The rally was peaceful off course , but many cupe members were there shouting and yelling at us.

  • CUPE greed fail
    January 28, 2009 at 11:24 am

    @ blackflame.
    If neither party wished to continue bargaining, than it would only make sense that both parties would accept binding arbitration and BTWL would not be necessary.
    The dictionary definition of deadlock is as follows: “a state in which progress is impossible, as in a dispute, produced by the counteraction of opposing forces; standstill; stalemate: The union and management reached a deadlock over fringe benefits. ”

    To me, this is a clear definition of deadlock on these remaining issues; which is stated in legislature as a valid reason for BTWL.

    Those sticking points mentioned are indeed in deadlock, as progress is impossible.

    Honestly I really hope CUPE tries to challenge the McGuinty Liberals with this case, it will definitely be the last nail in the coffin.

  • Deborah
    January 28, 2009 at 11:27 am

    @ York Student

    I thought of going to the rally. It was snowing so much that I couldnt get out today and take the bus (I live really far from downtonw).

    dont be sad. They’re a bunch of losers. After 4 arresting I cant believe they still have balls to disturb the student’s rally. Its insane!

  • iphone
    January 28, 2009 at 11:27 am

    i want to know when will we know the bill has pass or not? and is it 100% sure we will be back in class on monday 2nd feb eventho when the bill has pass but in bewteen those times , can cupe do anything to avoid getting back to class?

    thank you. please?

  • blackflame28
    January 28, 2009 at 11:31 am

    @CUPE greed fail

    I would like to know the legal definition of “deadlock” *shrugs*
    But why is it “impossible?” Because York keeps saying no? That’s not impossible, that’s stubborn. Like I said before, I want this bill to pass because I want to go back to school but I am concerned about the legal implications it will have.

    @iphone

    I would suggest reading the articles posted on this site before asking questions. The answers are right in front of you.

  • David Allan
    January 28, 2009 at 11:35 am

    Cupe is ready to Bargain, well that’s good to hear. I am glad they are ready to table the exact same offer they have stood by since the beginning of this process. The one that keeps them in line to be on strike with everyone else in 2010.
    The same bargaining team that deemed a raise of over 10% over the next three years unacceptable.

    Excuse me if I think it’s hard to believe they are ready to bargain. They are posturing. Excuse everyone involved if they are sick of having their intelligence insulted by Cupe 3903.

  • Queen's Park Webcast
    January 28, 2009 at 11:40 am

    So is the third reading not going to go down until tomorrow morning? Is this why this NDP guy is wasting time talking?

  • CUPE greed fail
    January 28, 2009 at 11:45 am

    @ blackflame

    Its impossible because both sides are saying no, not just York. It would take BOTH sides to compromise.

    Its not hard to see CUPEs hidden agenda for the 2 year contract, so it is non-negotiable for both sides.

    Think of CUPE bargaining tactics as if you were working at a store and selling a TV for $1499. A customer walks in everyday(CUPE) and offers you $39. Pretty soon you’re going to ignore that customer.

    These ‘negotiations’ were deadlocked from the beginning, and it won’t take much for the Supreme Court to see that.

  • FL
    January 28, 2009 at 11:45 am

    Hey all. my Osgoode prof talked about this today and said that the Supreme Court decision everyone keeps mentioning isn’t all that instructive, since it was only a guideline provided for cases like this. Each situation is basically looked at on a case by case basis. He didn’t mention anything about getting an injunction, so I figure that the possibility of the union getting one to block the legislation isn’t too likely (let’s hope). I think everyone should be back by Monday (God willing), so use your time to get back into academic mode. Try to just roll with the punches; this isn’t the end of the world. This too will pass!

  • less optimistic
    January 28, 2009 at 11:46 am

    A liberal MP introduced a motion to remove BTWL from committee and impose a time limit on speakers for further debate.

    After listening to the NDP re-read the same petition over and over again, anything that could potentially get things moving forward is a good thing.

  • Agrees with mikael
    January 28, 2009 at 11:47 am

    I totally agree with you mikael
    I am also one of the students that is part of atkinson and we’re being put under a lot of stress especially since we’re not at fault here. I went back thinking they would be more lenient towards us but I have finals worth 70% which is unfair. They’re teaching us 12 weeks of material in 2 weeks. I really want to know if we as students can do anything about it because the money is coming out of our pockets and we deserve a little bit of credit here after everything we’re being put through.

  • SumbanthSingh
    January 28, 2009 at 11:49 am

    did you also know the chinese themselves comsume 1/3 of the Earth’s oxygen?

  • blackflame28
    January 28, 2009 at 11:54 am

    I’m not saying it’s all York’s fault. I blame the union. Originally asking for 41.5% wage increase. If I asked my boss for that, she’d laugh me out of my job. BUT the union has agreed to alot of conditions. And this isn’t a store. You can’t just ignore your workers. We are the annoying costumer. Not the Union. They are the employee.

    Again, I WANT TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL but we need to uphold the law. If the government starts bending the law at will (which is what Peter Kormos is saying right now) then what can we expect in the future? What will happen to U of T if they go on strike?

    To “FL” I hate to say “duh” but EVERY case is looked at case by case basis. There is NEVER a cookie cutter formula for law- if only it was only it was that easy! It would make my job so much easier and less stressful! But our government is based on the law of precident, this is why they keep quoting that BC case.

  • UnderGrad Int'l
    January 28, 2009 at 11:54 am

    York Student,

    Keep motivated girl! :-)

    I too attended the rally and I was also warmed in heart that there was a crowd of students. I am also sooooo happy that the student’s rally went without incident; no one was arrested and I don’t even think I heard one student heckling. But boy, I’m sure CUPE had wished that anger would have erupted and turned to violence. It was so peaceful, I actually FORGOT that CUPE was even out there.

    Go students! It’s safe to say that York does have some MATUREs students :-)

  • UnderGrad Int'l
    January 28, 2009 at 11:56 am

    Amen @ FL

  • Dave
    January 28, 2009 at 11:56 am

    U of T has already stated they will not be canceling classes and will readjust to do without TAs. They’ve handled it that way before. Strikes are rather ineffectual with U of T.

    This BTWL could be precedence for how things will be handled in 2010 when way more Universities are in line to strike in Ontario.

  • CUPE greed fail
    January 28, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    The students are not the problem. CUPE is not bargining in good faith, so they need to be put back in line.

  • CUPE greed fail
    January 28, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    @blackflame
    Exactly, she would laugh you out of a job, this is basically what is happening. The 2 year contract (although CUPE wont say so) is the sticking point, its the elephant in the room. Preceding this contract, all recent 3903 contracts were for 3 years. York explicitly stated that they won’t participate in CUPEs 2010 coordinated strike plans. This is: one, a clear deadlock; and two, an unreasonable demand.

    If it were up to me I’d say make a 5 year contract so York gets 5 years of peace and CUPE can coordinate to bring down Ontario universities next bargaining session (2013).

    But then again all this doesnt really affect me too much right now as I started class this week.

  • Tejaswi M
    January 28, 2009 at 12:05 pm

    Okay So I international student, and like I see the union can only attack bill once it is passed soo basically I ASSUME tht we may go back on monday but once union people get a injuction we are on strike again!

  • CUPE greed fail
    January 28, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    lol@ someone using my name. Immitation is the greatest form of flattery.

    I didnt say “The students are not the problem. CUPE is not bargining in good faith, so they need to be put back in line.”

  • G
    January 28, 2009 at 12:06 pm

    @ Agrees with mikael

    Your finals being worth 70% is not right and very unfair in my opinion. I would check with the senate policy am not sure but I think exams are suppose to be between 20-30%. I would talk about this to someone at the student client centre or something. Good luck.

  • Andrew
    January 28, 2009 at 12:09 pm

    You know what would have been maybe smarter than back-to-work legislation, and unquestionably legal? A bill to refund and compensate all York University students out of government funds in the event that the school year was to be cancelled.

    That would undercut the union’s rationale for continuing the strike — that if they run out the clock, York would have to give in because they can’t afford to cancel the year.

    Actually, Mr. McGuinty, it’s not too late for this …

  • Dave
    January 28, 2009 at 12:10 pm

    Bailout students!

  • UnderGrad Int'l
    January 28, 2009 at 12:11 pm

    wat is showing on the ontario legislation is it live? or a replay form this morning?

  • AJ
    January 28, 2009 at 12:12 pm

    The vote is on! 9 minutes…

  • CUPE greed fail
    January 28, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    @Andrew.
    Ummm that would cause the biggest uproar in Toronto history.
    I have put 10 weeks of hard work into this semester, not to have it taken away from me.

    Ya you could refund tuition, but what about this 12 weeks of lost time? or the fact of putting 50,000 students life on hold 1 year?

    The effects of that bill would be ridiculous, catastrophic, and immeasurable.

  • Queen's Park Webcast
    January 28, 2009 at 12:14 pm

    What’s this vote for though? It says Government Notice of Motion 111? That’s not the BTWL, is it?

  • UnderGrad Int'l
    January 28, 2009 at 12:16 pm

    Ok, from your comments I assume it is live.

  • blackflame28
    January 28, 2009 at 12:18 pm

    @CUPE greed fail

    I think you are missing my point. It doesn’t matter if the union are the bad ones or the university is. it doesn’t matter what they are asking for. This is what is important what it comes to this bill:

    is it an esstential service?
    is it a matter of national security?
    did both parties agrue in good faith, and it still lead to a deadlock?

    If the answer is no to all of those questions then this bill isn’t legal. then CUPE has a chance at winning.

    Fear not, THIS BILL WILL PASS. We will be back in school soon. Probably monday.

    (speaking of, my boss was talking to me when the assembly when on break- what are they voting for?)

  • Andrew
    January 28, 2009 at 12:20 pm

    @CUPE Greed Fail

    It’s like nuclear weapons. They work best if not used.

    If the union were looking at an open-ended strike, and not a ticking clock, it would damp out their militancy quite a bit. They voted “no” against the forced rat in part under the mistaken belief that the university would be forced to rush back to the bargaining table, rather than cancel semesters.

  • AJ
    January 28, 2009 at 12:24 pm

    Ayes – 42
    Nayes – 8

  • blackflame28
    January 28, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    wait… i confused.. what was that motion? was that the third reading? or… what?

  • Studying hard
    January 28, 2009 at 12:26 pm

    Sarah Millar: The Legislature will resume tomorrow morning at 10:15 a.m.

    is this the Royal Assent? or w/e it’s called?

  • Commuter
    January 28, 2009 at 12:29 pm

    This was a vote on the closure motion that Mr. Bryant formulated today… NOT the third reading. The vote passed.

    This means that there is no more debate to be allowed about BTWL.

    The third reading vote will be tomorrow, and the bill will pass.

    Back to school on Monday.

  • CUPE greed fail
    January 28, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    @blackflame
    I realize your point. My argument that the unresolved issues are in clear deadlock, and therefore BTWL is legal.

    To my understanding the answer must be yes to only ONE of those questions, not all 3.

  • blackflame28
    January 28, 2009 at 12:32 pm

    I didn’ t say all three. I said if the answer was no to all three.

    Okay… so they voted not to debate anymore… why didn’t they vote on the third reading today so we could be back Friday? Yeah… have our interests at heart, my ass.

  • Less Optimistic
    January 28, 2009 at 12:50 pm

    Without unanimous consent it’s not possible to have more than one reading on a day. The afternoon vote was to overturn the NDP effort to send the bill to committee and to put time limits on further debate. That passed, so tomorrow the 3rd reading should go through.

  • Tyred
    January 28, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    To the people arguing that York is arguing in bad faith and that they could continue to negotiate – York has already stated that what they have offered is all they can afford.

    You didn’t like the TV analogy but put it in bargaining terms – Union A goes into negotiations with Company B.

    Union asks for a 40% raise over 1 year, company offers 5%.

    Bargaining goes on for 3 months – union lowers its demands to 30% and in an effort to reach an agreement, company offers 7% and states that is all they can afford.

    According to blackflame28, as long as the union with the outrageous demands is willing to bargain, there is no deadlock.

    In theory you must think in this case that Company A should continue to make offers until union A is happy. I think when Company A says that their offer is all they can afford and they hold to that, negotiations are over. Definite deadlock.

  • Jane Fonda
    January 28, 2009 at 1:13 pm

    Is anyone else finding it impossible to study?

  • so
    January 28, 2009 at 1:21 pm

    Monday school will start, keep that in mind. Get ready.

  • so
    January 28, 2009 at 1:40 pm

    actually, looks like friday!

  • hereatyork
    January 28, 2009 at 1:57 pm

    No, the legislation will receive royal assent tomorrow. So, first day of classes will be Mon.

    http://www.yorku.ca/yfile/archive/index.asp?Article=11911

  • nope
    January 28, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    other then the fact that it wont be Friday

    you are not smart, learn to read the york website.

  • concrete
    January 28, 2009 at 2:07 pm

    @ blackflame28:

    there is a clear deadlock. PERIOD. give it a rest already. the union hasn’t been bargaining in good faith, neither side will budge on the contract-length issue.

    so happy about BTWL

  • b
    January 28, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    @jane fonda,

    yes, i am too having a hard time pushing myself to study. been out of school too long. havent done anything since november

  • Kizilnizil
    January 28, 2009 at 2:40 pm

    Looks like they decided not to fight the bill afterall, I think they know what they’re up against at this point. http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090128/090128_york_province/20090128/?hub=CP24Home

  • mikael
    January 28, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    thanks 2 those who replied…

    anyone has anyother thoughts?
    in reference to this post:

    any suggestions…?

    im one of the students in admin studies at atkinson that has gone back….

    our profs have canceled assignments and increased weightings of previous assignments such that we have 80% final and a 70% in the next 2-3 wks (approx.). i feel this is unfair and just stupid. i know profs were gonna re-assign and weight but this is just so stressful.

    also, one of my online courses felt it was okay to put up 4 lectures instead of 2 or 3 because it was convenient enough to do so. this also is just not right.

    we students are really getting f*cked.

    what can we do, if anything ?

    wow, ive never hated anything more than york and cupe right now lol


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